I have what I believe is the 1710-RT Pennsylvania passenger set based on pictures posted several times in this thread. I believe my engine is missing the headlight lens.
I'm not sure what the engine is called - "torpedo" or "0-4-2?" I have looked some at AF parts sources, but have been unable to figure put what part might serve as a replacement from the text descriptions. I have linked to some Olsen picture pages, but they are for S gauge, and I have been unable to decipher how to use the search function from their home page. Whatever I type in the search box produces no responses.
I would definitely appreciate any information on what this part is called (or numbered) or where it might be available.
Thanks,
Craig
Here are the pictures of replacing the cast light on my 3107.
First of all, this is the cab as I received it.
There is a slot with a grommet in the center and a screw mounting hole for attaching the light. I think the hot wire must have been threaded through the grommet.
The part I found (on eBay) is a different design. I believe it may be for Lionel cabs. Instead or an insulated wire, there is an insulated tab that fits inside the cast housing.
So I needed to modify the openings on the cab. First removing the grommet.
Then filing the rectangular opening smooth and enlarging the screw hole to match the slightly smaller distance between the screw hole and hot wire opening of the cast part.
The cab under the cast light was slightly flattened to fit snugly. I'm not sure this is the best bulb, but it is what I have on hand at the moment.
The light tested fine with the hot wire to the connection and ground to the body. I'm not sure this will be the same with the body mounted to the frame. I may need a ground jumper, but maybe not.
Also, I realize this is not "original." There may be more authentic AF cast lights available. This works well, however, for my purposes as the engine and set are nowhere near collector quality to start with.
Re-wired, re-wheeled, lighted, and ready to rumble.
That two-tone blue looks really nice.
I am curious about the car connectors on both ends of the engine. Your pictures alternately show both ends of the engine leading. The box cabs I own have connectors on one side only. I never really paid attention to this before.
Also, as you mention, the only thing missing on that set are the cast lights. I just replaced the cast light on my 3107 and it was pretty straightforward. I'll show pictures in my next post.
Set # 1346
The Jeffersonian . . . .the conclusion
Back on page 55 and page 56 I posted some entries on the # 1346 Jeffersonian set. I thought I would finish off with some photos of the entire set.
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Craig,
Glad to be of help with the re-wheeling instructions. It is not too difficult to do, but is somewhat daunting the first time. Now that I have re-wheeled at least 20 engines, it becomes a much easier task, especially when having the proper equipment.
NWL
Thanks Northwoods Flyer. I look forward to you presenting the sets.
I really like these cars. I am not, however, sufficiently funded to be a collector. There are several nice car sets on eBay that are just a bit too rich for my blood. Also there is a steam loco (423) passenger set that has drifted past the reach of my modest means. It looks similar to the Iron Horse set except that the cars are a teal color.
Still I have picked up some cars and sets here and there and will continue to do that. I recently acquired the Torpedo set you listed in an earlier post.
There is indeed a lot of variation. For instance the beige and green cars I have do not have the Golden State logo that NWL's pictures show. Instead there is the American Flyer Lines banner.
By the way, I successfully re-wheeled the 3107 from the Frontenac set. I followed the clear and detailed directions given by NWL and you and that worked well. Thank you again for that.
Southern Colorado Marx,
I thought that I would expand on the post that NationWideLines did on the Wide/Low Profile cars. As he pointed out these cars come in two lengths: 6 1/2" cars that come with either four or eight wheels, and the 8 1/4" cars that come with eight wheels. I posted these photos back a few pages but they illustrate why they are called wide/low profile in comparison to other passenger cars produced at the time.
The 6 1/2" 4 wheel cars are the 3140 Baggage, 3141 Pullman, and the 3142 Observation.
The 6 1/2" 8 wheel cars are the 3150 Baggage, 3151 Pullman, 3152 Observation, 3161 Pullman, and the 3162 Observation.
The 8 1/4" 8 wheel cars are the 3171 Pullman, 3172 Observation, 3176 Pullman, 3177 Observation, 3178 Pullman (this is the cadmium finish car), 3179 Observation (also a cadmium finish) - all of which are from the Chicago Flyer era. The 404 Pullman and 405 Observation are from the Gilbert era when production was moved from Chicago to New Haven. As NWL noted, there never was a baggage car produced for these larger 8 wheel cars.
Within these car numbers there are a vast array of variations which include obviously the color (as NWL listed above), the type of truck used, the type of coupler, decals - which also vary vs brass plates, types of door and there may be other variations that I am not remembering. These wide/low passenger cars are a collection all by themselves.
I will be working on a post that lists the sets that contained these cars but it will take me a while to go through my catalogs and identify the sets that came with wide/low profile cars. But here is a tease. This is the Iron Horse set cataloged in 1931 and 1932.
Southern Colorado Marx Flyer I'm curious if a car that was stripped of paint and clear coated would look like the cadmium cars, or is the plating obvious. Craig
I'm curious if a car that was stripped of paint and clear coated would look like the cadmium cars, or is the plating obvious.
If you look closely at the cadmium plated 3178 and 3179 cars, they have extra vestibules attached to the ends of the cars. These vestibules are unique to the cadmium plated cars. Therefore, stripping a common car and clearcoating it would not get you the same car. I have seen cars that were painted silver in an attempt to recreate these cars.
Another thing of note, is that the cadmium plated cars is really more of a dull finish. My cars showed well with the flash.
Thanks for the detailed response and pictures NWL. It looks like there are quite a few - more than I thought. I really like the looks of the cadmium ones, but I'll bet they are not easy to find.
And yet another question. Is there a way to go directly to a specific page on this thread, or do you have to move through two pages at a time using the page bar?
Nationwidelines I am sorry, I wrote a nice post to your question and it did not post NWL
I am sorry, I wrote a nice post to your question and it did not post
No problem. I thought it was funny. Something a zen master would do - answering a question with the same question the student asked.
To answer your question, the wide low cars feature a wide body and low profile, hence their name. These cars came in two lengths and multiple colors. The shorter cars like the frontenac cars came in orange, red, green, aqua, and blue and there were 4 and 8 wheel cars. The 3171-3172, 3176-3177, 3178-3179, and 404-405 cars are the longer cars and they were sold between approximately 1930-1939. These cars came in tan and green, red/red, blue with silver roofs, and cadmium plated. There were no baggage cars to go with the longer cars. Here are some of the longer cars.In order, the cars are 3171-3172 in tan and gree, 3176-3177 in red, and 3178-3179 with cadmium plated finish.
A nice zen comment NWL.
Southern Colorado Marx FlyerI would like some help in sorting out some early passenger cars. I am particularly interested in what are referred to in this thread as "wide-low" enamel cars and specifically the 8-wheel versions of those. I know the 3150, 3161, and 3162 cars of the Frontenac set are this type. I also think that similar (if not identical) cars were part of the Highlander set. These are two-tone green. I recently found 3171 and 3172 cars which are of this type. I find no mention of 3170 that I imagine would be a baggage car. These are beige and green. These are all 8-wheel cars. In an earlier thread the 3140 series was described as this type, but I have only seen pictures of a 4-wheel version. I had thought the Potomac cars (3180,3181,3182) were 8 wheel wide-low cars and think I remember seeing pictures to confirm that, but I think I have also seen pictures to indicate they are narrower. Were the 3171 and 3172 also Potomac cars? So, my question is, are there other wide-low 8-wheel passenger cars other than the 3150, 3161, 3162, (3170), 3171, ans 3172? Also, what set(s) did the 3170 series come with - was the Potomac one? I'm just a bit confused. I guess I'm also curious why wide-low cars are (apparently) limited to just a few sets. Were they replaced with a different type of car? Thanks for help with this.
I would like some help in sorting out some early passenger cars. I am particularly interested in what are referred to in this thread as "wide-low" enamel cars and specifically the 8-wheel versions of those.
I know the 3150, 3161, and 3162 cars of the Frontenac set are this type. I also think that similar (if not identical) cars were part of the Highlander set. These are two-tone green.
I recently found 3171 and 3172 cars which are of this type. I find no mention of 3170 that I imagine would be a baggage car. These are beige and green.
These are all 8-wheel cars.
In an earlier thread the 3140 series was described as this type, but I have only seen pictures of a 4-wheel version.
I had thought the Potomac cars (3180,3181,3182) were 8 wheel wide-low cars and think I remember seeing pictures to confirm that, but I think I have also seen pictures to indicate they are narrower. Were the 3171 and 3172 also Potomac cars?
So, my question is, are there other wide-low 8-wheel passenger cars other than the 3150, 3161, 3162, (3170), 3171, ans 3172? Also, what set(s) did the 3170 series come with - was the Potomac one?
I'm just a bit confused.
I guess I'm also curious why wide-low cars are (apparently) limited to just a few sets. Were they replaced with a different type of car?
Thanks for help with this.
I didn't realize that the Milwaukee Road extended so far West, but see now that it went all the way to the Pacific. I think it is curious that the Milwaukee Road, Great Northern, and Northern Pacific railroads all served much of the same areas at the same times. Must have been more need than one railroad could satisfy.
I also thought electric railroads were more of an East coast to Midwest thing. Wrong about that. The history of railroads is a big part of my interest in model railroads as I'm sure it is with others. It is always fun for me to find connections, particularly with pre-war stuff as that was the time when railroading was at its zenith.
I guess if we are posting about real trains, here is a shot of the E57B that sits in a city park in Harlowton, Montana. I just happened to be riding my Harley along US 12 and was stunned to see this locomotive in the park. Had no clue that Harlowton was the beginning of the electric line.
The link below is to the Lake Superior Transportation Museum in Duluth Minnesota. They have an electric locomotive that was built by General Electric and was used on the Milwaukee Road until well into the 1970's. It isn't the same model as the Electric depicted in the painting used for the Flyer Catalog, but it is similar. I believe that it is an EF-1. I have been to the museum many times and its an impressive engine, and collection.
http://www.lsrm.org/Home/exelectric.html
The title of the painting is "The 20th Century on the Electric Division" so the train is the 20th Century. The painting was, as noted, by Walter Greene but is was not used as calendar art. The calendar paintings were all steam locomotives.
Flyer appears to have used numerous colors for roofs on their various cars. Below is an uncataloged set that features a maroon 3112 and three different color cars. The observation has a brown roof in this set. I have seen this set for sale several times over the years and acquired a boxed set, unfortunately with no set number. Note that the observation car uses the 1927 and before frame and the other two cars have the 1928 and after frame.
Nationwidelines strainst: American Flyer used brown roofs on their Broadway Limited Set, on an uncatalogued set 7012 and probably other sets. Below are pictures of the cars that came in the 7012 Set. strainst, I have a nearly identical set in my collection, but the cars have black roofs and the engine that came with the set was a maroon 3012 (ie it had reverse and the 3012 number plate). It is obviously a 1927 set as it has the early frames and the engine has the body mounted headlight. NWL
strainst: American Flyer used brown roofs on their Broadway Limited Set, on an uncatalogued set 7012 and probably other sets. Below are pictures of the cars that came in the 7012 Set.
American Flyer used brown roofs on their Broadway Limited Set, on an uncatalogued set 7012 and probably other sets. Below are pictures of the cars that came in the 7012 Set.
strainst,
I have a nearly identical set in my collection, but the cars have black roofs and the engine that came with the set was a maroon 3012 (ie it had reverse and the 3012 number plate). It is obviously a 1927 set as it has the early frames and the engine has the body mounted headlight.
This is my set of cars that are similar to the ones that strainst has posted. I think these are similar to the ones that NationWideLines has. I've never seen any of these cars with brown roofs. I'm glad you took photos to document them.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
Thanks, I have seen the reference in Shuweiler's book previously and just never wrote it down. I will ask Alan the next time I see him, which may be this weekend. As for articles about some of these sets see TCA E-train back articles. There are one or two articles covering some 7000 series sets with photos of a couple of sets and the documentation sources for the set numbers.
[quote user="Nationwidelines"]
I am wondering the source of your set number 7012? I have been trying to document the 7000 series sets the best I can and have not seen that set number before. Did you have a boxed set, less engine?
NWL,
If I had had the boxed set less the engine, I would have kept it in my collection. However, I did not have the box. I bought these cars from a friend and sold them before I realized how neat they were. I knew they were from an uncatalogued set, but I didn't think I would find the engine so I let them go. The reference to this set was found in the book "American Flyer Prewar O Gauge" by Alan Schuweiler. He first mentions this set on page 109 when he is listing the different versions of the 3011 midsize boxcab locomotives. Version 'C' states the 3011 maroon body with a black roof if from this set. On page 126 in his listings of the 1206 passenger cars and the 1206 observation cars, he list versions of these two cars that came in this same set. He goes on to state that these cars are in a set in his own collection. Maybe you can get in touch with him and he can provide pictures and additional information. I hope this helps in your quest to document American Flyer 7000 series sets. Have you wrote about the research you have completed so far. I would love to see an article about what you have learned about on these sets.
strainst
The artwork that Flyer used, was the actual painting that GE produced for NYC for the actual train. The artist Walter L. Greene, was the Chief Illustrator for both GE and NYC at the time and I believe it was used on one of their calendars. The story is that the head of NYC sent the painting to American Flyer and Flyer used it on the 1925 and 1926 catalogs, with a similar but not identical copy of it being used on the 1927 catalog.
Thanks for the information NWL.
I did some investigating based on that and found several photos of NYC locos that look similar.
The third pictured locomotive is indeed identified as a T-type. Specifically it pulled the "Cardinal's Train" out of New York City in 1926 when the personal emissary of the Pope travelled from Italy to Chicago to address an international Catholic congress. The Pullman cars were painted red and gold for the occasion.
http://www.themetrains.com/cardinals-train-roster.htm
The actual train that is based on is the General Electric T-type locomotive that was built for the NYC railroad. The artwork for that image was owned by the late Maury Romer and was donated to the TCA museum upon his passing in the 1980s.
Any information about what actual train this catalog illustration was based upon?
It is a great illustration (my current desktop background) and reminds me a little of the Frontenac 3107.
Here are some pictures of the lighted "PRR" cars in a little better light. None of the cars were purchased as a set, and as mentioned, the baggage car roof is a repainted black roof. The engine is a 3011 with a brown roof. The coach car roof seems to be more maroon, while the observation car is more red. The color of the car bodies looks pretty similar to me.
The truck type is common to all three cars.
strainst American Flyer used brown roofs on their Broadway Limited Set, on an uncatalogued set 7012 and probably other sets. Below are pictures of the cars that came in the 7012 Set.
I know that my set is original as it is a boxed set (with no visible number) that I purchased directly from an estate with no other trains.
I know that 7000 series numbers are special sets made by Flyer for various retailers and recall seeing some documentation relating to this fact, possibly in an old TCA quarterly article.
As for the documentation of the 7000 series sets, I currently have 17 numbers recorded in my files, but 2 of those numbers relates to empty O gauge boxes, contents unknown.
In my research, I have only found five 7000 series numbers listed/described in formal paperwork/catalog items. Other sources have been seeing sets that have sold.
If anyone has information on 7000 series sets, I would appreciate the information relating to the set number, source of the number, and what is in the set.
Thank you for the kind comments, and again thank you for the catalog page photos.
One of more of the cars may be from the Prairie State set, but I am not certain of that. They all have the trucks with the rectangular opening. They were, however, found separately on eBay, and one of them is the result of piecing together two incomplete cars. I know the baggage car is from a different set as it originally had a black roof. Actually all three roofs seem slightly different in color from each other and I may paint all three roofs to match.
I'll take better pictures tomorrow and post them.
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