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Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by tjl0824 on Sunday, July 15, 2012 9:47 PM

I've been looking to buy a 3315 for a little while now, but Ebay seems to be too competitive of a place to get one from. I plan to start looking locally, the only problem is I wouldn't really know if I was holding either a 3315 or any other locomotive labeled "American Flyer" on the cab. It's easy to know online, because the auction will be for a "3315 Steam Locomotive", but I don't know if they know what they're tallking about either. So my question is, how do I tell what number the engine is? I'm guessing it's stamped somewhere, but I don't know where. Obviously, there is a bell, but I'm aware many other engine's had bells as well.

Trevor

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, July 15, 2012 4:34 PM

Wide Gauge Lone Scout Set

The Lone Scout set appeared in American Flyer Catalogs from 1929 through 1931. It came headed up by several different electric outline locomotives.  Mine has been on display for a number of years in my library/office. We are going through some minor redecorating and so I took it down and decided to photograph it for the thread.

I believe that my set is from 1929.  The Lone Scout set illustrated for that year is #1464. It is headed by the #4635.  In a seperate red outlined box on the same catalog page set #1494 is offered with the #4685, which has an automatic reverse. The #1464 was priced at $35.00.  The #1494 was priced at $40.00.

The 4685 was cataloged in 1929 and 1930.

 

 
The Lone Scout cars are very colorful. They make a great consist for a train around the Christmas tree. They were cataloged from 1929 through 1931. They came with either brass air tanks or grey truss rods.
This is the 4250 Club Car
 
 
The 4251 Pullman
 
 
The 4252 Observation
 
 
The cars are 14 inches long and the bodies are lithographed. I purchased them early in my collecting career long before eBay and the opportunity to see what you were buying.  In those days if you didn't go to shows and buy equipment or find it at local shops or purchase directly from collectors, the best sources were lists that you sent away for.  This set was from a list from a private seller.  I haven't looked at it closely in years because it was on a shelf up near the ceiling.  In photographing it now I realize that the roofs are most likely restored, and the trucks have definitely been repainted as the rivets in them are painted the same color as the trucks.  Someday I will probably replace it with a more original set but for now its still a beauty.
 
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Posted by Gray Cat on Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:26 PM

I just picket this little guy up today. This is a Prewar A-Koostikin' station. These prewar stations came in both the brown/yellow and red/white color combinations. They were later continued in the postwar S gauge lineup in red/white. It seems that the original name although catchy to the A.C. Gilbert company didn't work well out on the street. It was later changed to "Talking Station" which was self explanatory. This neat little accessory stops the train in an insulated block which then starts a record containing station calls and sound effects. After the record finishes the train starts back up and goes on it's way! Notice the front curbing is cut away on this station.

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Posted by overlandflyer on Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:01 AM

the 400 series action cars came in sets with an activation track piece, the No. 683 Straight Unloading Track Set, but at least up to the 1941 catalog (i don't have a 1942), it was never pictured or for that matter, even offered as a separate sale item.  both the 472 and 474 cars i have came individually without the track piece, but eventually, and after recently getting a few supporting opinions, i believe i found the correct track.

 
 
No. 683 - Straight Unloading Track

the solenoid circuit is completed through a small spring positioned outboard to contract the trip track.  a metal angle piece, riveted to but isolated from the grounded ties, is powered through a single small fanstock clip.  when the car spring comes in contact with the track angle piece completing the circuit, a momentary switch (likely another part of the No. 683 set) can be used to power the solenoid.

cheers...gary

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:25 PM

Great posts on the Pre War 3/16" O Gauge line folks.

There is a thread about 3/16 O that ran for a while on the forum but appears to have gone dormant.  This is a link to that thread.  It has some great information and photos.

 http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/168740.aspx?PageIndex=1

Keep the photos of 3/16" O gauge equipment coming.

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Posted by overlandflyer on Saturday, July 7, 2012 2:04 PM

i'm not really looking that hard anymore, but my collecting nemesis with the 400 series cars was always the silver 480 tank on the blue frame, though for merely collecting all numbers, i do have an almost perfect Shell tank version.

one collector alert on the 481 wrecker.  according to the Greenberg prewar Am Flyer wide gauge text, the (583) Electro Magnetic Crane which used the same crane body as the 481 car had a black stack, not the chrome (or maybe nickel plate?) version which should be found on the 481 wrecker crane.  the roofs that are merely a friction fit and can easily slide on and off are completely interchangeable, however.

anything beyond the very common 476 gondola, 478 boxcar and 484 caboose is the start of a good collection.  good luck...gary

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Posted by Gray Cat on Saturday, July 7, 2012 5:47 AM

Gary, thanks for adding your pics to a part of this thread that I hope will continue to grow. It seems you've posted pics of every car on my want list!! I was very happy to find that passenger set in Tuscan with the Pullman cars. They were a local find which made it even nicer. I am now on the lookout for a Tuscan baggage car to go with. It does look like a drum head belonged there, I'll see what I can dig up..

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Posted by overlandflyer on Saturday, July 7, 2012 12:13 AM

Gray Cat

The searchlight car is always a favorite, I have a girder car and am currently looking for a crane car to go with as well as the unloading car which has a Tank for it's load.

hey Cat, great pictures.  first time i've ever seen the 495-type cars in brown and especially like that lounge-observation.  it almost looks as though there may have been a drumhead attached to the railing at one time?  if not, the addition of one (without any hard changes, of course) might look sharp.

nice collection of 400 series freight cars, also.  this is one of the few 8-wheel Flyer groups i collect and had the camera out the other evening anyway so here are a few you missed...


#482 log car w/ black frame

first is the black frame version of the lumber car.  the load is in well handled condition, but you can still make out the "482" on the side shown, with the "American Flyer Lines" decal on the other side.  the Greenberg text states there should be two decals on each side, yet both this and the green frame version i have only have a single decal centered on each side.

#472 - U.S. Army Automatic Unloading Flatcar w/ original Tootsie tank load

probably the most difficult car to find with the correct and complete load, is the unloading flat.

when activated, the hidden solenoid turns and lowers the platform.

to complete the unloading flat, the Tootsie tank is also a tough find often found as the piece on the left, missing front and rear guns.  the original rubber tires are also usually in a rather fragile state.

#474 - Automatic Coal Dump Car

another solenoid activated car, the spring loaded side of this car opens up to dump its load.

#481 - Wrecker Crane on red frame

my favorite has to be the #481 wrecker, though.  also made in a black frame/ gray boom version, it has control wheels to both raise and lower the boom arm and hook.

what's that you say?  yours doesn't smoke?  :)

cheers...gary

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll7QcueelhI&feature=plcp

Here is a link to a little youtube of a few of the trains in action. I have a siding with switch to alternate between either the Hudson freight or Pennsylvania passenger line. I can also switch the inside line through the tunnel or to the outside.. Later I'll have a talking station hooked up and working.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qkChGOV_84&feature=relmfu

 

This second link shows the little layout before I added a larger second level..

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:16 AM

Here is a Prewar 3/16" O gauge Tuscan Passenger set with "deluxe" Pullman cars.. As you can see in the photos there is an observation car in the "tinplate" heavyweight design.. The two pullmans have light sockets punched in the floor but no pickup or sockets. The medium weight cars that do not have lights do not have holes punched in the floors? I have one out of three medium weights with lighting. I think all these cars look better with the lights on! These two Pullman's look right at home behind the standard weight cars. I cheat a little and pull this set with a Pennsylvania Streamline in Brunswick green.. although this engine is not true 3/16th scale it was used with the 3/16" cars and I especially like it because it was restored using an Atlas O gauge running gears with smoke! Gotta love smoke. One of the other things the Prewar Flyer is sorely lacking is the "Choo Choo" sound. I'm thinking of burying a newer smoke in tender unit in an old box car or tender and leaving it on a siding to produce the choo choo sound that would vary with throttle position. (I would rather do this than mess with one of the nicer cars).. I have a few Flyer "Chuggers" but they just don't seem to sound as good.

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:15 AM

Here is the Prewar 3/16" O gauge Royal Blue and Passenger set..  Flash photos don't do this set justice, it's in really nice condition! This is almost identical to the postwar Royal Blue 350 which oddly enough ONLY came with freight cars, A.C. Gilbert didn't carry over the Baltimore and Ohio Blue passenger cars. Perhaps he didn't want to carry over such an old design?

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:14 AM

Here are a few pics of Passenger cars. I'll add more sets and detail later.

The baggage car in red

Passenger car in red. These came in lighted and unlighted versions.

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:05 AM

The searchlight car is always a favorite, I have a girder car and am currently looking for a crane car to go with as well as the unloading car which has a Tank for it's load.

Finding one of these yellow hoppers with all it's paint intact is a challenge. no primer used so the paint has a tendency to "pop" off..

and the same is true for this green gondola.

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:01 AM

Here are some more pics of rolling stock. The line was not that extensive as compared to post war Flyer S, however collecting variations and searching for super nice condition can be fun and challenging.

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 8:39 AM

Some Prewar Cabooses and the variations in my small collection. One is a regular lighted caboose with white handrails. Then a lighted caboose with black handrails. and lastly an unlit caboose with an odd stamping on the bottom. I don't know what this caboose was stamped for? So if anyone can add to this please do.

It seems this unusual stamping on the bottom of my Caboose is the same stamping used in the bottom of a Chugger Tender. I wonder if this was the same stamping used just to fill in the bottom? of did they ever make a caboose with chugger (that seems unlikely).. I wonder how uncommon this tender floor is?

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 8:35 AM

Here are a couple of PW O lumber cars and the variations.. one has straight sided straps to hold the load on the other has formed straps to better grip the load. On the straight sided strap the logs have a tendency to work loose and slide out. There are also other load with square lumber, I don't have any of these yet.

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 8:32 AM

Here is a pic of a Prewar O 3/16" Atlantic. This was more than likely a "budget" set or possibly a postwar sale of a prewar train as there are no journals on the trucks.. same with the cars that it came with.

Note that prewar and early postwar production engines listed the name of the line rather than American Flyer Lines.. in his bid to make the "Tru Model" line more realistic the engines would read "Reading Line", "New York Central" and "Pennsylvania"

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 8:25 AM

Just posting some pics of my budding young Prewar O 3/16" collection. Hope to see more of this stuff posted. It was only manufactured for about 3 years prior to WWII (1939 to 1941) and then A.C. Gilbert switched over to S gauge. Which for those that don't know is the same 3/16" scale as his Prewar O but with the more scale and realistic (as advertised) two rail track. It's been interesting to see the development of this line.

This first pic would be the O gauge Pennsy K5, this is the same casting used on the post war 310 series.

This next pic is a 545, it uses the same boiler casting as the 561 however it is a 4-4-2 where the K-5 is a 4-6-2 and even though the boiler casting is 3/16" scale the 545 uses an earlier "Coleman" type O gauge tender.. this was also curious as the 545 was sold with 3/16" rolling stock. It was not advertised in the 1940 catalog as "3/16"".. I wonder what A.C. was thinking? I threw this pic in for comparison as I don't really consider this true "3/16""

This next pic is the O gauge Hudson which would later become the 320 series in S. I might add a personal opinion, these "TruModel" train engines were glorious representations! of the real thing.

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Posted by Major on Monday, June 18, 2012 8:14 AM

A S scale tender shell will fit.  The tender trucks are similar and you can by reproduction S scale truck sides but I am not sure if the studs on the S scale truck side frame will match the O scale truck.  But it is worth a try.  I know that Fred Jester had the O gauge trailing truck for sale as I have personally seen them.  But since his death access to his parts have been problematic.  Relatives did have them at the pre TCA train show in York back in April. Port Line Hobbies may now have some O scale parts.

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Posted by tjl0824 on Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:38 PM

 I have had a 570 hudson for a few months, but never got into fixing it up until now. It needs a rear truck, and I can't find a replacement anywhere. Does anyone know where to get one? I also have a tender frame minus the shell, and I was going to buy an early s-gauge tender shell from a 320 or 321, but wasn't sure if they attached the same way. Also, are the side-frames for the trucks on the tender the same as the s-gauge ones?

Trevor

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:08 PM

311131 Sand Car

This car was offered approximately in 1936 and 1937. It never appeared in the Flyer catalog but it is listed in the 1936 Dealers' Price list as #1131.  I have seen it most often included in the lower priced sheet metal Hiawatha set along with several other uncataloged freight cars.  There are two major variations: one is a four wheel version with the axels riding on holes punched in the side of the frame, and the second is an eight wheel truck (Type X) fastened to the floor of the car with a rivet.

This is Variation (B) with Type X trucks.

 

 
I have posted two of these cars. Even though they look identical from this perspective, there is a variation.
 
 
One has a red interior and the other has a grey interior.  The floors of both cars are black.
 
Even in something as common as sand cars you can find variations.
 
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:57 AM

Trevor,

Thanks for posting the video of your 561 and 565.  Its great to see these old toys in operation. As a static display they are very impressive but when you can observe them running you get an entirely different impression.  They even sound substantial; and yours are in great running condition.  The long straight runs on your layout give these trains a chance to stretch their legs and show off.

I hope that you will post more photos of your collection and more videos of your trains in action.

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Posted by tjl0824 on Monday, June 4, 2012 9:30 PM

I started messing around with youtube and got a video of both my 561 and 565 up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB6KCagp2p4     Enjoy!

Trevor

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Posted by tjl0824 on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 3:01 PM
There we go! I used shutterfly. Going back to what I was saying, the wire would not plug into the back of any tender, just the one with the clip on the front. From my guess that tender is postwar only, but maybe I'm wrong?
Here's the side in case it helps with anything.

Trevor
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:31 AM

tjl0824,

First of all let me offer my Welcome to the forum and to the Pre War American Flyer thread.  Its good to have you here. It looks as if you have gotten some good information from some of the participants here.  I think you will find that someone will be able to answer most of your questions.

As far as posting photos to the thread.  As AF53 pointed out you will need to use an online photo hosting site to be able to post photos here.

It is a relatively simple process, and if I can do it, you will be able to as well. 

The first step is to establish an account with an online photo hosting site.  There were several that were suggested to me when I first started posting photos. I tried Shutterfly and I have stuck with it.  http://www.shutterfly.com/

I take the digital pictures of my items, store them on my computer and then upload them and store them at my Shutterfly account.  You can set up a number of "albums" and organize your pictures any way you like on the site.

 

When I want to add them to my post on the thread I keep the message box open and open a second window with Shutterfly.  I  have the picture I want in the viewing window on Shutterfly (this will make sense once you see how the site is set up).  I right click and copy the picture from shutterfly and then right click and paste it into the message as I am writing it, (or after I have written it).

 

You can also use the icon in the tool bar at the top of the Post Message window    and insert the URL of the photo that you want to post.

 

I look forward to seeing photos of your items. 

 

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Posted by tjl0824 on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:44 PM

Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE

Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE

I was sort of assuming that my engine was postwar, due to the fact it would connect to a fahnstock clip on the tender, which I believe should be lettered Reading, and would be postwar. Although in need of parts such as the trailing truck, it runs like new after I cleaned it. This was surprising to me because my 561 is on it’s third frame after the original and a replacement crumbled. I got lucky on the third try! That leads me to another question. The 561 has the 558-C tender with “chugger”. Only problem is that it doesn’t move enough air to produce a “choo-choo” sound, just the noise of the loud motor running. Is there a fix to that? I’d imagine it has something to do with the piston.

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Posted by Major on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 8:07 PM

I have a post war 565 and it has a fahnstock clip on the front of the tender for the pick up connection with the locomotive.  Another interesting thing is that one of the box cars I have is made with identical halves that have the mounts for the brake wheel.  The other pre war box cars I own only have the mounts for the brake wheel on one end.  AC Gilbert was probably using up existing stock on this post war O gauge pressed steel box car. 

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Posted by AF53 on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:59 PM

tjl0824 - Welcome to the best prewar American Flyer source of information.

To post some pics is easy. I personally use www.photobucket.com it's free and it's easy, just set up an account.

As for the 565. It was cataloged in 1941; 1945-1946. There were no differences between prewar and postwar. The Locomotive had no pickup shoes on them and reliel on the tender for its power.

 

As for the 564 or 564C Tender. The 1941 version has journals and the 1945-1946 usually have none. The 564C Tenders has a choo-choo mechanism inside. I personally have 2 and neither have the correct "sound" as they are not as reliable as the later choo-choo Loco's that A. C. Gilbert produced.  

I hope this helps.

Ray

 

Ray

Bayville, NJ

 

Life is what happens to you
While you're busy making other plans - John Lennon

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Posted by tjl0824 on Monday, May 28, 2012 9:37 PM

I had never even heard of prewar american flyer 3/16th scale until reading this! I've found a bunch of it from dealers at train shows that assumed since it was american flyer, it was s gauge, and I've got it all cheap. I'm curious to know, is there any pointers to a postwar 565 that set it apart from the prewar one? I own one, and there is no jack on the wire coming out of the cab to plug into a tender. I find it hard to believe that it could have fallen off. I don't have the tender for it. Could someone also explain how to post pictures?

 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Monday, May 28, 2012 11:11 AM

Craig,

Congratulations!  You have made the 1,000th contribution to the thread. 

A tip of the old fedora.

 
Thanks too for the information and photos of the interior of the BiPolar.  Its pretty easy to romanticize what full size railroading was like until you actually experience it or see it for yourself.
 
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The Northwoods Flyer Collection

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American Flyer Trains

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