I know that a lot of y'all are prewar AF junkies, and that some of Gilbert's prewar accessories carried over into the postwar period. Was a bridge, stamped steel, bluish-grey painted, with a yellow lighted shack one of these? It was my great grandfathers, I believe he acquired it in the mid to late 1950's.
That certainly sounds like a Gilbert Era Flyer bridge. I am not sure if it was produced prewar (it certainly could have been), but it does sound like one of the items that was produced in the postwar era. If it was produced in the prewar era, I suspect it would have been a late production c. 1940-1941 item.
These photos are from the 1941 Am Flyer catalog.
The first showing a close shot of the 611 bridge which appears to be indentical to the postwar 750 bridge. My fascination with this bridge is that it appears to have angled pieces attached to hold the track in place, I assume.
Has anyone ever seen one with these attachments? Or maybe a boxed bridge with #611 stamped on the box?
The next two photos are of two pages showing some if not all of the O gauge accessories. (the HO accessories are on other pages)
Good information is in the catalogs, if you read the fine print.
That is my bridge, based on the postwar usage, I would say it is the 750 version.
Check out this link, it has some great information on the 750
http://thegilbertgallery.org/Accessory%20Gallery/accessories_bridges2.html
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Northwoods Flyer Check out this link, it has some great information on the 750 http://traindr.com/american-flyer-trestle-bridge-750/ Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
http://traindr.com/american-flyer-trestle-bridge-750/
Thank you all for the information, I suspect I now know it's year of manufactur. Now, how did a 1953 bridge end up on a 1959 Lionel layout? (Or did it?)
Hi all-
New subsriber here. I have been given an American Flyer Line wide gauge set and I am looking for information on what I have. I have been doing some research and found this forum! You guys definitley know what youre talking about so I would like to post some pictures here for you to help me out. Wondering about the condition, as well as the year. List I have reads that the grade is C6-C8, what does that mean? Also, I know there is some updating that might need to be done to the set.
I am not sure yet if I am going to keep the set or pass it on.
Here is a list of what I have:
I would love to hear your thougths and advice on the set.
Thanks, hope you guys can help me out! Also, please forgive me for not cleaning it up before taking the photos.
ds
Don't clean it up!
ds521,
to the thread. We are glad you found us. We will do our best to give you some information.
First of all, the C6-C8 that you asked about is part of the grading standards established for toy trains by the Train Collectors Association.
Here is a copy of the standards;
C-10 MINT - Brand New all original, unused and unblemished. C-9 FACTORY NEW - Brand New all original, unused, may evidence factory rubs and the slightest evidence of handling, shipping and having been test run at the factory. C-8 LIKE NEW - Complete all original, no rust, no missing parts, may show effects of being on display and/or age, may have been run. C-7 EXCELLENT - all original minute scratches and paint nicks, no rust and no missing parts. No distortion of component parts. C-6 VERY GOOD - Minor scratches and paint nicks, minor spots of surface rust, free of dents. May have minor parts replaced. C-5 GOOD - Sign of play wear with scratches and minor paint loss. Small dents, minor surface rust. Evidence of heavy use. C-4 FAIR - Scratched, moderate paint loss, dented missing parts, surface rust. Evidence of heavy use. C-3 POOR - Requires major body repair. Heavily scratched, major rust and missing parts. Restoration candidate. C-2 - Restoration required. C-1 - Junk, parts value only.
This link will take you to a more detailed article about the grading standards on the TCA site:
http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/2810463/reply.aspx
When I was at my office earlier today I could see the photos that you posted. For some reason here at home I can't bring them up. I can do a little work from your list, but I'm going to have to take a better look at the photos back at my office.
First of all I don't think that you have a cataloged set of American Flyer equipment. I think you have a collection of AF that a family or a collector has gathered together.
Lets start with the engine. The 4670 cast iron engine was cataloged from 1931 through 1932. There are four variations of this engine. When I can see the photos again I think I can identify which one it is. It should have a 4671 coal tender - which you are missing.
The two passenger cars; the 4331 Pullman and the 4332 Observation were featured in the catalogs from 1931 through 1936. There are several variations of these cars.
I will have to do some more research, but this is at least a start on your trains and accessories.
American Flyer Narrow Gauge
The New Bluebird 1930 Set #1382 (1931 - 1932 the same set is known as The Blue Bird)
One variation of the lithographed version of The Bluebird is posted several entries back.
In 1930 Flyer recycled the name in The New Bluebird.
It is an enameled version that pretty much uses the same engine and cars as The Frontenac.
In the 1931 and 1932 catalogs it becomes The Bluebird. (I guess with time its loses its "new" status.) The set came with a number of accessories, making for great play value. This is the catalog page from 1927 showing the accessories included with the lithographed set.
I haven't seen very many examples of this set.
Finally, I get to post this photo. Wanted to post it quite a while ago, but could'nt find a round-to-it!
The Frontenac, The Dixie Queen, The Bluebird.
Always thought the Dixie Queen should have been the Bluebird.
These are original as I found them, although the coach in the Dixie has later trucks and the lettering/numbers don't match. But the condition matches like they have been together always.
Could never pin down the exact year of production. They all appear in the 1930 catalog, but the Dixie seems to be dropped afterwards. Who knows what Flyer really did!
Nice grouping. Your Frontenac set is a later version as it has the decals on the cars. The early sets have the white/silver rubber/heat stamped letters like your other sets. I am actually not sure that those cars are correct with the engine with brass plates. I have only seen the green cars with decals with slightly later steam engines. My Frontenac set has the heat stamped lettered cars with it.
Your Dixie Queen set is impressive. I have been searching for a nice set like that for awhile. Still looking.
NWL
I agree, my Frontenac is definitely a late set. The motor has no numbers, nor rubber stamp under frame, only AFL plates. I figured it to be from the "use up the plates" era that seemed to be 1932, when I thought decals were beginning to be used.
The Dixie coach and motor do not really match the baggage and observation. Photos can be deceiving. The coach is assembled by spot welding as in later versions. The motor has decals with the plate slots still present, with 3105 rubber stamped under the frame. The baggage and obs. are assembled using copper eyelets with gray floors, as in early sets. Perhaps this was a "clean out the warehouse" set.
I enjoy the detective work but Flyer prewar can be very uncertain. I enjoy everyone's input and comments as I am no expert.
vintageflyer,
Very nice sets, thanks for posting the photos. I have always liked the Dixie Queen and for some reason you don't see it very often.
The Dixie Queen set#1314 1930-1931
The Dixie Queen appears in the catalogs for two years.
The catalog copy is the same both years.
It comes in the blue color that vintageflyer has shown
and a slightly different color refered to as a violet-blue
Its hard to tell in the photos above but there is a difference in the colors.
There are other differences;
The floors are different colors.
And the trucks are different.
I was wondering if anyone here could give some advise about getting a prewar O gauge flyer #420 locomotive running again.
I have a 1939 #420 for a double header set I am putting together from parts and I noticed the drive wheels have very very slight signs of the zinc cracks starting arround the edges, I am aware Model engineering works is out of business and good wheels are limited to what can be found on a used parts engine.
(Anyone want to partner up and find a way get these wheels reproduced again? I might be able to help with drawing the plans to have a shop make them.)
The wheels are still round and turn easily and I figure if I run it gently it will last awhile longer like this. The wheels & gears were very dry so I lubed them lightly and it now runs smooth and quiet.
My question is this - I usually oil my trains with either 10w40motor oil or lubriplate thin white grease....but after I oiled it I was afraid this might speed up the zinc pest problem.
Has anyone here had issues with oil causing zinc pest in early flyer wheels or speeding up the deterioration, I know moisture, heat or cold can cause the the zinc to swell. Should I get the grease & oil off my wheels or leave it be?
Any advise would be appreciated .....or even leads on finding some replacement M.E.W. wheels would help as well.
-Jason Rackawack
Reportedly the MEW was purchased by Hennings trains out of Pennsylvania and they plan on making the wheels sometime next year.
I would say keep an eye on ebay as new MEW wheel sets come up occaisonally. New sets can generally be purchased for between $20 and $60 a set, depending on who is selling, who is bidding, and how badly someone wants them.
I have not heard of anything that speeds up the decay process of the wheels, other than possibly heat and cold cycles. I think it is more of a problem of impurities in the alloy that the wheels were made out of.
NationWideLines is correct. There is an announcement about MEW on their website.
http://www.henningstrains.com/
Thanks alot for the information......man I hope it wont be too long before the O gauge flyer parts are back in production, I have a LOT of prewar projects just waiting for wheels.
I drove down to Hennings in Landsdale arround this time last yearand the guy behind the counter acted like they never sold o gauge prewar flyer parts?!?!?I got lucky and another guy in the back let me go through some drawers of parts, I found a bunch of pilot & trailing truck wheels and a set of large drivers for my #423 .......Just wish they still had some for a #420 guess I'll keep waiting....
.....
-Jason
...and here are the other two sets pictured in the catalog cut in Northwood's post above.
The Vanguard
...and The Clipper
ds521Thank you so much! Looking forward to the rest of your response!
I said:
"First of all I don't think that you have a cataloged set of American Flyer equipment. I think you have a collection of AF that a family or a collector has gathered together.
Lets start with the engine. The 4670 cast iron engine was cataloged from 1931 through 1932. There are four variations of this engine."
I did a little more research in the 1931 catalog and I need to clarify my statement. It is unlikely that all of the equipment was part of one set, however the 4670 engine headed up two sets in the 1931 catalog that had your cars in them.
Set #1475 Monroe is the freight set that has your sand car and the caboose.
Set # 1477 Govenor is the passenger set that has your passenger cars.
I still can't see your photos but I can do some work just from the numbers. Is there something specific that you want information on?
Sturgeon-Phish It has been a while since I've posted any pics here and I have aquired some interesting additions 593 Signal Tower 748 Footbridge Track Gang 793 Union Station (non-talking) 769A 750 Tresel Bridge 768 Oil Supply Depot I really like this thread. It is like a muesum tour! Jim
It has been a while since I've posted any pics here and I have aquired some interesting additions
593 Signal Tower
748 Footbridge
Track Gang
793 Union Station (non-talking)
769A
750 Tresel Bridge
768 Oil Supply Depot
I really like this thread. It is like a muesum tour!
Jim
I have the 750 as well, but mines a blueish silver? How many variants are there of IT?
It appears that the link that I posted several enteries above to information on the #750 no longer works. I replaced it with another link below.
This link will take you to photos of three different color variations of the #750. Not all of them are Pre War examples.
Just spent the last week or so reading the thread... Someone ought to put an index on this thing. As it is, I might try using y'alls photos to try and see if the similarities somebody noted between a flyer tender and the Marx wedge exist at some point in the near future.
tinplatacis;
An index is a great idea. We had one in the early days of the thread but I got behind on keeping it current. Then there was an upgrade to the softwear and the number of entries on a page changed, so the existing index became obsolete. I've had the plan to create a new index but with over 1500 entries to try to catagorize the job seems a bit daunting.
It will be interesting to see your comparison. I hope you enjoyed your reading of the thread.
Oh I enjoyed it Northwood. Y'all almost made me regret my decision to collect postwar Lionel. Might keep an eye out for some of the four wheelers, though...
AF53 Back on page 7 Northwoods posted: "This is the 403 Locomotive/Tender combination. It has the Type XX locomotive(401) 2-4-4 and a Type IV tender(421). It has nickel trim and therefore comes from early in 1940. It is Gilbert production." Here is a later 1940 version of the same Locomotive /Tender, as there is no rubber stamp below the cab window.
Back on page 7 Northwoods posted:
"This is the 403 Locomotive/Tender combination. It has the Type XX locomotive(401) 2-4-4 and a Type IV tender(421). It has nickel trim and therefore comes from early in 1940. It is Gilbert production."
Here is a later 1940 version of the same Locomotive /Tender, as there is no rubber stamp below the cab window.
Not long after the original post quoted above, someone noted the similarity to the Marx Wedhe Tender, commonly 951A. I have an example of this tender. Just gonna look at them both.
Marx
-Has the rear ridges.
-outward facing sideplate.
-Attached with tabs underneath.
-No side handrails.
-Sheetmetal tabs above for ladder tops.
-features the pair of box ridges on the top.
-Full tender.
-Single piece coal gate opening
-Unbent tender top sides.
American Flyer:
-Sideplate depressed.
-Rivited on ends to frame
-Has side handrails
-Missing ladder top tabs
-Tender filled lower than Marx example
-2 piece coal gate opening
-2 boxed ridges on top
-Rounded tender top sides.
All in all, they are a bit more similar than I had expected. The Marx design seems to be an improved version of the AF tender above (No bricks, please), or else they are based upon the same design, possibly a NYC design. I will say, though, that the trucks on the tender look a bit similar to the Marx 3/16" trucks. I do not have any examples that have these trucks, so I cannot say anything definite on the subject of them.
tinplatacis,
When you look at both of the tenders there are indeed some similarities.
Here are two photos of the Marx tender. The top one has the 3/16" trucks.
This is the American Flyer #421 tender.
It happens to have the sheet metal knuckle coupler. I think this photo and the photo from AF53 illustrate the characteristics that you point out.
My best guess is that the tenders have a common prototype somewhere in the rolling stock of the New York Central. Did the article back on the thread give any indication as to the dates that each company cataloged this tender?
I believe someone threw the date 1934 out on the AF tender, don't know for certain. The Marx one was introduced to the line in 1938 (possibly 1939).
The Flyer tender body like that first appeared in 1932. The early versions had brass plates, but they soon changed to decals.
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