mersenne6 The cars for this set are the real puzzle. They have black frames and trucks with no journal boxes and they also have air tanks which supposedly disappeared from Flyer cars several years earlier.
Mersenne6,
There is actually a set of those late Illini cars with air tanks on ebay now. They are in poor condition as compared to yours, but they do have the late frames/couplers and air tanks.
Gray Cat This car was advertised for sale as a crane car on the wrong tank car base. I took a chance and bought it hoping it was the 514 Wrecker car and as far as I can tell it is! A good find for $10. This has the open frame cast base with four holes (one at each corner for use on other cast cars). The trucks are riveted on with what look like factory steel rivets (lots of original patina). Not sure of the No. 11 decal, I don't know if this came like this from the factory or if it was in the kit (since this is riveted I'm guessing it's a factory car) or a later customer add on?
This car was advertised for sale as a crane car on the wrong tank car base. I took a chance and bought it hoping it was the 514 Wrecker car and as far as I can tell it is! A good find for $10. This has the open frame cast base with four holes (one at each corner for use on other cast cars). The trucks are riveted on with what look like factory steel rivets (lots of original patina). Not sure of the No. 11 decal, I don't know if this came like this from the factory or if it was in the kit (since this is riveted I'm guessing it's a factory car) or a later customer add on?
finally got all my photos restored and had a chance to catch up on some of these postings. congratulations on the 400 series cars you posted. that red 472 unloader is a stunner.
thanks for posting the picture of the #514 wrecker. i had also picked one of these up when i was looking for the #481 wrecker and at first was disappointed thinking i had purchased a home-brew piece, but eventually saw the listing in the prewar Greenberg book. without a picture there i was fairly sure about it, but now seeing another one pretty much confirms it for me.
my model has a black stack and the Flyer decal under the cab which is also mentioned in Schuweiler's description. i have a feeling the "No. 11" decal on yours was a user mod; looks nicely done, though. with the same riveted construction as you describe, i believe i also have a factory (vs. kit) model.
cheers...gary
The American Flyer "Yeah-But" Factor - Another 1927 Jeffersonian Set
Back on page 22 of this thread Northwoods and I discussed the variations of the 1927 Jeffersonian Set. He posted pictures of his version which had a long frame engine and cars that had green frames and trucks with nickel plated journal boxes. I, in turn, posted pictures of the "first" version of this set which had a shorter frame on the #3015 engine and had cars with black frames and trucks without journal boxes. This version was an almost exact match to the catalog cut for 1927
This would be the black version of the 206 that was mentioned. This version is the late version c. 1936 or 1937. I believe that I have also seen an early black version of the 206, but do not have one.
#206 Danger Signal
Just so that we have these clustered together; this is the orange base, orange post version that Nationwidelines mentions.
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
It is just a color difference. Actually both the red and the green are a different shade.
Mersenne 6,
Let me add my back too. It is great to have you posting again! I just read your post on the Marx thread too. You still have some goodies to share.
What is the difference between the two Danger Signs on either end? I don't see a difference, unless it is that there is a slight difference in the shade of red of the bases.
The Mersenne6 Special will be running on the Blueboard Central Division of American Flyer Lines tonight in your honor.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
It is good to see that you are able to post again.
I know that the 206 danger signal was made in later years, but may not have been cataloged for individual sale after 1932. It is certainly a part of the 201 and 210 equipment sets of 1936 and 1937. The green base/post 206 at the right center of your photo is one of the late ones that has the taller and more rounded base, which is similar to the items that I have from the late equipment sets.
I too am unsure of when the variation with no lettering at the center was made, but have one as well. I have seen variations of the 206 with the black post/base and orange post/base as well.
Well, since we're talking basic lineside accesories here's a lineup of the stop, look, and listen usual suspects - the #206 Danger Signal which, according to Greenberg had a run from 1920-1932.
Since Northwoods brought up the difference of the banjo signal with and without the operating arm, I thought of the following similar accessory, which was marketed as the 203 Flashing Signal (without operating lever) and 223 Flashing Signal (with operating lever). Like the 202 and 222 Banjo Signal, this item first appeared in the 1930 Flyer catalog.
There are significant differences between the 203 and 223 versions of this accessory. The 203 version does not have the moveable arms inside the top and the rear of the top is not punched out. I have shown closeups of the 203 and 223 versions to show the operating mechanism.
223 on the left and 203 on the right in photo below
Northwoods,
Great photos. I can add some info on the differing bases that you noted.
Nationwidelines,
What a great find. I have never seen a box for the #240 Equipment set. From your description of the difficulty getting all of the items back in the box I can understand why many of them have not survived.
Reading your post and noticing two of the Banjo Signals on eBay recently made me take a look at the Banjo signals that I have in my collection.
#202 Banjo Signal
The Banjo Signal came in two forms. The #202 is the one that is shown in Nationwidelines' photo of the set. It was cataloged for seperate sale in 1930 through 1932, and apparently included in the #240 Equipment Set and various train sets for quite a few years. The other version is the #222. It has a rod that moves the swinging arm. I don't have a #222 and in fact I can't remember having seen one. I probably have just never taken the time to notice.
I gathered up my #202s and discovered there are several variations.
overland flyer/gary,
I certainly hope that they can figure out what has happened to your posts. Your information and photos have been an invaluable addition to the information here on the thread. I know I personally learned a lot from your posts. I'm hoping that they can get around to working out all the bugs. Something similar happened to Mersenne6. We didn't lose the photos in his posts, but he did lose the ability to post photos. I did repost your entry to the "fix the bugs" thread. I noticed the same thing has not happened to your posts in the Marx thread here on the forum. (By the way folks, that thread is excellent. I didn't know much about Marx trains, but my knowledge has been increased many fold but reading it) Thanks for your contributions, I look forward to more.
Gray Cat,
Let me offer a tip of the old fedora -
Adding again to the 3/16" prewar Flyer section. Here are a few pics of action cars I just acquired. \
The first is a version of the 472 Armored Car unloading car. It has a red frame and dual pickup springs. Don't know how rare this is, but I'm sure it's a less common variation. The photo from above shows both springs. Sadly this is the non lethal version, it has no guns! As Overland Flyer pointed out finding one of these with guns intact can be a challenge. It does have NOS rubber on it though so it rolls off the car well.
This next picture is of the 474 Coal Dump car. This is almost identical to the postwar 716 side dump car.
Here is another of the Prewar 3/16" Die Cast cars. This 504 Gondola is a two part casting. It uses the same die cast open frame as the Wrecker car.. on this gondola the four corners are attached with cast in posts on the gondola body that are peened over through the frame to hold it together. This car came in both the kit form or factory assembled. The catalog shows either the Hudson or the Northern pulling only a few of these cast cars and it's no wonder. They are quite heavy!
Lastly here is a shot of a green 492 mail pickup car.
During the prewar period there was not nearly the selection Gilbert offered post war, but having any of these action cars can add a ton of play value to a prewar collection or layout. It is a real treat to find any of them.
Lover of all things Gilbert, truly a man ahead of his time.
post deleted by user
Northwoods / Overland Flyer,
Your recent posts about the Flyer Clock and 240 Equipment set reminded me of something I acquired at York in the last year or two.
The toughest piece to find in the 240 equipment set is the original box, as shown below. I suspect part of the reason is that it is tough to pack the items back in the box and I am missing one of the signals in my set.
probably not related at all, but to designate a battery from a transformer powered accessory early on, Marx accessories colored green denoted the battery operated model whereas red was associated with the externally powered types.
its size does push the realism in O scale a bit, but luckily some scenic fixtures such as trees, clocks and flags can pass a bit more out of scale than mailboxes or phonebooths.
as a final note if you're looking for one, since this piece, or for that matter many of the early accessories, is not marked as Flyer, it is often mis-ID'ed.
overlandflyer #220 Station Clock & #90 Hyde Park Station (ca.1930)
#220 Station Clock & #90 Hyde Park Station (ca.1930)
(I tried to quote overlandflyer's post above twice and for some reason it will not post the photo. Scroll back up a ways and you can see his original post.)
Gary,
I really like the #220 station clock but until recently I did not have one in my collection. I purchased one a short time ago and I took some photos of it to post here on the thread. After you posted the above photo I went to look at mine and discovered that you have a variation of it that Schuweiler does not mention in the Greenberg guide.
Mine has a green standard and base, while yours is red.
overlandflyer if someone ever starts a Hafner string, you will really see some similarities between early Flyer and Hafner.
if someone ever starts a Hafner string, you will really see some similarities between early Flyer and Hafner.
I was hoping some time or another someone would do a Hafner post on the Marx thread. There is no strict rules as long as you don't start putting postwar Lionel stuff on there...
Trevor
I think this link will take you to Gray Cat's video of his 571
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2s8J_HiM_E
Thanks for posting it. These old toys still have a lot of life and action in them.
tjl0824 ... Did you buy those recently? I saw those together with a few other things on eBay but someone else got them.
... Did you buy those recently? I saw those together with a few other things on eBay but someone else got them.
wasn't me... i've had these two pieces for a while. i love small stations. this one and the Hafner Glenn Ellen station make a good pair for a small layout. if someone ever starts a Hafner string, you will really see some similarities between early Flyer and Hafner.
i picked up the station clock along with a few other acc's like a banjo signal and simple crossing gate from the same era, but the clock is the only piece i keep out to remind me when it's tea time. ...ah, just about now.
Gray Cat http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&video_id=v2s8J_HiM_E This is a link to a youtube video clip showing the 571 with Remote Directional Control in action.
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&video_id=v2s8J_HiM_E
This is a link to a youtube video clip showing the 571 with Remote Directional Control in action.
Your link is bringing me to my Video Manager page.
Good one Gary! Did you buy those recently? I saw those together with a few other things on eBay but someone else got them.
I just bought some Chicago era 3200 series freight cars, but they came rougher than the pictures made them look. I'll post some pictures as soon as I clean them up.
This is a link to a youtube video clip showing the 571 with Remote Directional Control in action. I'm using the ZW whistle controller to activate the RDC. I'm not sure if it is working as well as it could/should. I'll keep my eyes out for a proper controller in the future as well as the missing cattle car to make this a completed set. Very neat little feature! Forgive the tender floor as I didn't get a chance to replace it yet. You will see at the end of the video it causes a slight derailment. Fortunately we didn't have to bring the big hook out to get that tank back on the rails!
Here are a few more additions to the 3/16" Gilbert O portion of this thread.
This is a "set" I just acquired, it is a 571 O Challenger in 3/16" (scale or tru model as Gilbert called it). It has the worm drive motor and Remote Directional Control unit. I was able to purchase it with three of the Diecast cars a 512 Texaco tanker, a 508 Virginia Hopper and a 516 UP Caboose. I'm going to be looking for the 510 Cattle car which should go with this consist. My 1940 Catalog shows a 534 as the RDC engine to go with the diecast cars to make a set, this engine is a 571 but with the RDC. Not sure yet why, but looking to find out. All pieces are in great shape except the tender bottom which is warped (zinc rot? I believe it's called).. These tender bottoms are reproduced so I'll have one ordered soon.
Last image is a picture of what the directional control unit looks like. Strangely the whistle control on a ZW activates the Directional Control relay!
Narrow Gauge Lone Scout Set
Back one page I posted photos of the Wide Gauge Lone Scout set. It appeared in American Flyer Catalogs from 1929 through 1931. In the 1929 and 1930 catalogs there is a line drawing of an American Indian standing looking out over a landscape with the caption. "Named in honor of Indian Braves"
In 1934 Flyer recycled the name for a Narrow Gauge set that appeared for only one year; set #1366-RT.
tjl0824 Your crane car must similar to my rare version of the 561. It has steam chest and whistle smoke effects, and it still works even without track power, just like your 481! Trevor
Your crane car must similar to my rare version of the 561. It has steam chest and whistle smoke effects, and it still works even without track power, just like your 481!
concluding a year long super-detailing project which included a working coal burning boiler deftly hidden to avoid any loss of collector value, the need for track power is not an issue here. my guess is that the crane operator was bored and just trying to keep warm during the photo shoot.
ah, the magic of toy trains!
overlandflyer what's that you say? yours doesn't smoke? :)
what's that you say? yours doesn't smoke? :)
Trevor,
The Type IX locomotive is a nice looking engine. It was introduced in 1932 and ran in the catalog through 1935. It reappeared in the 1937 catalog for the last time. It was cataloged under several different numbers, but the easiest way to recognize it is by the brass trim along the running board. There is no number present on the engine.
Actually, these engines were not stamped with a number. The 3315 engines are noted for the brass trim piece mounted under the running boards.
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