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Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by balidas on Wednesday, August 5, 2015 8:28 PM
Recently I was given some American Flyer freight cars. This was the first time I've ever seen any other then pictures. I was impressed! At first I thought they were too big to be O gauge so I set a car on some tracks. Still, these things are huge! And so beautiful! The paint seems more enamel then paint. Almost reminds me of powder coating. I can understand now the appreciation collectors have for them. So very artistic.
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, August 9, 2015 12:26 PM

Another#206 Variation

The #206 Danger Signal must be one of the accessories with the most variations that American Flyer produced.

We have already documented a number of colors:

And some of the variations that leave off the "American Flyer"

Notice that the bases and the standards on all of these examples are the same color.  I recently came across an example where the base and the standard are of different colors.

So if the red variation

and the green variation

 

got together and had a baby

this is what it would look like. Wink

I wonder how many other varitaions there are out there? The search continues

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Posted by rack776 on Thursday, August 13, 2015 10:15 AM

I have been considering joining the TCA to help me with learning more about Prewar Flyer O gauge and also to search for spare parts for my projects, I was wondering if any one here could give an opinion on how helpfull the TCA club would be for prewar O gauge flyer fans.

The reason I ask is I had gone to the TCA museum in Straussburg back in July hoping to do some research in the library and identify some of my prewar flyer items in the museum.

I was very, very disapointed by the lack of identification and general chaos in the display case, I saw a 1939 double header set spread out on 3 different shelves, the 410 dummy locomotive was leading a set of 3/16" o gauge cars, the other double header cars were behind a different 3/16" scale locomotive.

The descriptions of the equipment were vague such as "American Flyer Caboose - c.1930s"   I was shocked as the TCA is usually reguarded as the experts on toy trains, I will say on a positive note that the Lady in the Library was very helpfull with finding me original prewar catalogs to look through.

Has any one here joined the TCA to learn more about Prewar Flyer and regreted spending the $50 on the membership?  Is it mostly a "Lionel Fan Club"? I was kinda bummed that there was only 1/2 of a mixed up display case with some prewar flyer in it.

-Jason

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, August 15, 2015 9:32 AM

Hi Jason,

Welcome to the thread.

I joined TCA about 5 years ago after contemplating joining for a number of years.  I have not been very active in the Division that I belong to, mainly because the meetings are held several hours away from where I live.  I enjoy getting the Quarterly and I know that several of the other collectors of Pre War American Flyer who post here are also members of TCA.  I enjoy the online e-Train magazine that is available.  If my memory serves me correctly, membership allows you to search back copies of the Quarterly online to do research. I have never done that however.

Please remember that collecting Pre War American Flyer equipment is a very small niche of the train collecting hobby.  TCA does an admirable job of keeping a balance between all of the manufacturers.  However their publications are based on the contributions of the members.  So you might expect that there will be more contributions from members who collect other manufacturers and who are willing to write articles.  Some of the folks who have contributed here have also contributed to the TCA publications.

I pay my dues, but I have never been to York (although I hope to one day). I like the publications because they increase my knowledge of the train collecting hobby in general.  My membership has also given me the opportunity to make contact with other Flyer collectors.  

Most of the knowledge I have gained about Flyer has come from the books that have been published, and from personal friendships I have made, as well as the information posted here on this thread.

I started this thread over 7 years ago because I couldn't find an online source that was dedicated to photos of Pre War American Flyer. If you have read some of the thread you will see that it has become more than that. There is a great deal of information gathered here in one spot.  I learn something new with almost every post.  I also enjoy the friendships that I have made with a number of the folks who post here. At one time we had an index of the information here, but with a software upgrade the format changed and the index became of very little use.  I hope to fix that some day, but it seems like a daunting task.  I  hope folks enjoy wandering through the pages as much as I do.

If you have questions about any Flyer equipment post it here; if you have the capability to post a photo, that is always helpful. However, someone who reads and posts here will most likely be able to post a photo of what you have and provide some information.  In most cases we will be able to answer questions.  That has been one of most enjoyable aspects of hosting this thread.  There is a wealth of knowledge available here through the folks who post.  This thread has guided my collecting energies over the years.  I am always looking for an example of some piece of equipment to post here.

Again, let me offer you a welcome.  If you have questions post them here. Try out a TCA membership and see what you think of it. 

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Posted by strainst on Sunday, August 16, 2015 10:57 AM

Jason, I agree with Greg; try out a TCA membership and see what you think.  I have been to York on several occasion and have really enjoyed the trips. Pre-war American Flyer is a small segment of the overall toy train experience, but you do find quite a bit of it there.  It is great way to meet other individuals who sell pre-war American Flyer and to get additional information these trains.  Most of the guys there will happily talk your ears off about the trains they love so much and you get to see trains there that you only have seen in books.  Being able to look at them and, after asking, handle them can add to your own knowledge in ways that books cannot. The only down side is I only bring the amount of money I can budget for trains and there are always many more trains I would like to buy then I can afford.   And at York, when you first see it especially at the beginning of the show, you need to make the decision to buy it then or take the chance that when you go back later, it could be sold.
 
New Topic:
Is there a way to roughly date a train set by the label on the side of the box top?  I have a couple of sets in which I have to set box, no label on the box top, and a car or two in the box of which I do not know if they are original to the set.  These sets do have a side label.  Also over which years did American Flyer have the "TOY M'F'RS. USA / AMERICAN TOYS" logo on their train set labels?  Was this related to WWI and the German toy companies? Thanks
strainst

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, August 17, 2015 7:27 AM

strainst

New Topic:

Is there a way to roughly date a train set by the label on the side of the box top?  I have a couple of sets in which I have to set box, no label on the box top, and a car or two in the box of which I do not know if they are original to the set.  These sets do have a side label.  Also over which years did American Flyer have the "TOY M'F'RS. USA / AMERICAN TOYS" logo on their train set labels?  Was this related to WWI and the German toy companies? Thanks
strainst

 

 

I know that the end labels on the boxes do provide an indication as to the date of the set, as Flyer did change the labeling on the boxes over time.  The Toy Manufacturer's logo on the boxes did appear at a specific time (which I cannot recall at this moment) and this is one of the ways to assign an approximate date to the box.

It would be helpful to post pictures of the box labeling.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, August 17, 2015 9:26 AM

Jason,

The displays at the TCA museum are disappointing to people who know their pre-war Flyer, especially with the new lighting that shows off some of the extremely poor quality of the items in the cases.

As far as joining the TCA, I guess it depends on how you intend to use your membership.  I am not sure where you are located, but it possibly sounds like the east coast due to your visit to the museum.  If you just joined the TCA and sat back and did nothing else, you might be very disappointed.  However, if you join the TCA and go to York and any local meets, you hopefully should meet up with collectors who share your interests and will be happy to share knowledge with you.

My own experiences are that I had been collecting trains for many years prior to joining the TCA.  I finally joined in 1998 and then attended some of the local events in the Chicago area, but had never attended the York meet.  I finally began going to York in approximately 2005.  It was an overwhelming experience the first couple of times, but as time went on I began meeting fellow pre-war Flyer collectors from all over the country.  I have developed several great friendships out of my TCA membership and just returned from visiting a collector in the Pacific Northwest.  My friend drove me around the area and we visited other collectors and a local railroad museum to see the SP Daylight engine in the midst of a 15 year inspection, so all of the shrouding was removed and the front of the boiler was open.  It was incredible!

 

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Posted by rack776 on Thursday, August 20, 2015 11:50 AM

Thanks for sharing the photos of 4449 I love that engine!,

Has anyone here ever approached the TCA museum about organizing the prewar flyer items on display into proper sets?  I understand how hard it is to nail down an exact date of manufacture for prewar flyer, but I would think the type of couplers on the cars should match each other. I'd be glad to try & help with research on what they actually have on display.  

I'll probebly end up joining the TCA, I figure I could try it for a year and see how it goes.I did not know members could search the back issues of the newsletters on line...that in its self might be worth joining for. I love to read.

I still dont know if I'll ever get to attend York or not, I live about 2.5 hours away near Allentown PA, so getting to York is not a problem......the big issue is the weekend of the big show is always at the same time as my wifes birthday and our wedding anniversary....Tongue Tied   She is very supportive of my hobby and likes the smaller shows near us.......I dont want to eventually turn into "That Guy" the guy who turns every family vacation into a "train watching or toy train trip". The over obsessed guy you see at the train shows dressed up in engineers overalls and a red scarf....and a grumpy looking wife walking far behind him....I hope the TCA does not turn me into "That Guy" LOL!Big Smile

Thanks for the advise on the club

-Jason

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, August 20, 2015 3:44 PM

If the weekend of York is bad for you and you are only 2.5 hours away, then I would suggest you take off Thursday and drive down for Thursday only.  The TCA show at the fairgrounds starts at noon on Thursday and ends around 6 for regular mom and pop dealers, with the Orange Hall (manufacturers and large dealers) being open for another hour or so after that.  You could drive home that evening.

One day is really enough and that way, you have your weekend free for your wife and family.

As for approaching the museum about their display, I would rather have my wisdom teeth pulled again, all on the same day while awake!

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Posted by mersenne6 on Sunday, August 23, 2015 9:28 AM

strainst, the toy manufacturers formed as an association in 1916.  Looking over my boxes with trains whose manufacture date are reasonably well known it appears that Flyer put the logo on the ends of the boxes starting around 1918 and dropped the logo at least by 1927 and perhaps earlier.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, September 13, 2015 7:16 PM

Something for your consideration.  A c. 1908 boxed American Flyer set.

 

 
 
 
I guess this one proves that the sets are still out there, as it came out of an estate sale in Iowa last week.
 
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Posted by rack776 on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 5:29 PM

WOW! That is really neat to see..... looks to be in really good shape....That engine from 1908 is in way better shape than some of my postwar trains from the 1950s

I always love to see old toy trains from the early days of railroading.

I'm so used to thinking of steam locomotives as part of our history or our past that its easy to forget when that little model train was made it was based on what was a "modern" locomotive at the time.

I dont think a 2015 MTH model of a SD40 Diesel will have the same charm in 100+ years as that Flyer set has. Thanks for sharing the photos,  Great Find!

-JasonBig Smile

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:07 AM

I have posted photos of American Flyer sets that I have in my collection on another site.  I decided to start adding them to this one as well.  I am pretty sure that I haven't posted these here before.

 

1927 American Flyer Wide Gauge  

 

"The Commander"

 1927 Commander OGH

 

 

 

1927 Catalog  The Commander  OGH

 

 

 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:43 PM

1927 American Flyer Narrow Gauge   

  "The Oriental Limited"

"The Commander" has a little brother.

 

1927 Oriental Limited

1927 Catalog cut  The Oriental Limited

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, October 11, 2015 7:12 AM

American Flyer Narrow Gauge   1927   

The Broadway Limited

Broadway Limited 1927

Broadway Limited Catalog cut

 

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Posted by vintageflyer on Sunday, October 11, 2015 8:06 AM

This is one of my favorite litho sets, as it simulates a real train. Pretty impressive to kids of the time.  I have two other versions. One with black roofs and another black roof version with the "Pennsylvania" lettering but no "Broadway Limited" lettering. Nice pics. 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, October 11, 2015 11:35 AM

Hi vintageflyer,

Thanks for the comments about the variations to this set.  Please post some photos of the sets if you have them.  I have seen pieces of both the black roofed sets, but so far I haven't come across a whole set of matched cars.

I added some photos of the individual components of the Broadway Limited to the post above.

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Posted by mersenne6 on Sunday, October 11, 2015 5:10 PM

  I've already added these pictures to the thread but since it looks like Northwoods is trying to put as many sets as possible together in a continuous run of posts - I'll help fill out the rest of the 1927 catalog page he illustrated in his earlier post.

Catalog Page

Set #1102 The Suburban

Set #1202 The Interstate Limited

 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:44 PM

mersenne6,

It didn't take you long to figure out my strategy. Wink Its nice to hear from you again.

You did a great job of filling out the page from the 1927 catalog.  I have the engines for both of those sets, but not the cars.....yet.

So here is another page from 1927:

I've already posted the 1927 Oriental Limited set with the red lithographed windows.   Set #

Moving on, here is The Bluebird  Set #1225

American Flyer Narrow Gauge    1927-1929

The Bluebird

There is a longer post somewhere that details the changes in the Bluebird from 1927 through 1929.  But these posts are just to group as many sets together as possible.  So here is a representation of the Bluebird from those years.  Photos of acurate sets are always welcome.

It was pulled by the 3013 and the 3113, depending on the year.

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Posted by mersenne6 on Monday, October 12, 2015 8:09 PM

...and here's the set pictured below the Bluebird...the Jeffersonian ...at least the 1927 version that most closely resembles the catalog cut.

 

For whatever reason that year Flyer made several within year changes to the set. Below is one of those variations - note the longer locomotive frame and the air tanks underneath the passenger cars.

 

As before, these pictures have appeared in earlier posts to this thread.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Monday, October 12, 2015 10:00 PM

Thanks mersenne,

I remember your original post.  Its where I learned that there were two versions of this set in 1927. I now own both versions of the set too.

1927 American Flyer O Gauge  

 

The Jeffersonian    Set #1306

 

Long Frame

Short Frame

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Posted by vintageflyer on Sunday, October 18, 2015 9:39 PM

Here are the "Broadway Limited" and "Pennsylvania" sets from my collection.

When I aquired this "Broadway Limited" set. The seller expressed to me that he believed that the black roof version was from 1926.

The "Pennsylvania" cars have "disappearing couplers" (Flyers term). These are the "T" slotted couplers which are mounted to a slot in the floor instead of a hole, which allows them to disappear.

I have repainted the roofs on the Pennsy set. which were black, but in very poor condition. Also the baggage car in this Pennsy set has the slotted couplers which are attached by rivets, showing it is not original to the set.

I am interested in any other information anyone else can offer about these sets.

   

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:44 PM

vintageflyer,

Thanks for the photos of the sets.  I think the black roofs look very nice on these cars.  I will have to keep my eye open for them.

We've been covering quite a few of the electric sets from the 1927 catalog.  I'm not sure if it is my favorite catalog, but the variety and color of the equipment certainly put it near the top of my list of favorites.  

This is the front cover of the 1927 catalog.

Notice the rainbow theme.  The colorful equipment and sets live up to the advertisement.

And the back cover.

There are photos of the Narrow Gauge sets in the posts above.  This is one of my favorite pages, its page 9

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, October 24, 2015 8:59 AM

1926 American Flyer O Gauge  

Lets jump back to the 1926 catalog for the next entry

This is set #1820    "The Broadway Limited.

It is one of the few boxed sets that I own.  I got it through a Loyd Ralston auction many years ago, before I turned my collecting attention to Pre War American Flyer. It was back in the days before online auction sites when you had to order a catalog with one small photograph of the items in a lot.

I was fascinated by it for some reason; probably because of the Milwaukee Road association.  I put in what I thought was a very low bid and ended up winning it.  In the years since I have come to realize that this must have been one of the most common sets that Flyer made and sold.  I see these cars for sale all of the time.

This is the more common later baggage car that has the Milwaukee Road herald in the correct position.  I have the earlier version somewhere too that has the herald standing upright instead of tilted.

It runs great.  It has the tendecy to go at top speed all the time, even when pulling the 3 cars. I've had to be careful when running it or we suffer derailments on curves.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, November 1, 2015 9:18 AM

The Iron Duke        

1931   Set #1323    American Flyer   Narrow Gauge

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, November 2, 2015 4:28 PM

Here is something that was seen at York.  It is probably a one-of-a-kind item.  Note the "Mack's Junction" decal on the base.

 
Sadly, the owner would not sell it to me.  I guess I cannot blame him as it is a fantastic item.
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Posted by vintageflyer on Monday, November 2, 2015 9:14 PM

Followed one of these on Ebay a few months ago. The decal made it very valuable. Could be the same one? Curious how it was originally packaged/sold. Was it a Montgomery Ward item like the water tower? Or a different stores special? 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, November 2, 2015 10:05 PM

Never seen or heard of the Mack's Junction on anything other than the water tower.  No idea as to how it was sold.  Missed the one on ebay.

I believe the owner of this one said he had acquired it from a friend.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:37 AM

The Mack's Junction water tower has always intrigued me. I haven't found an affordable one yet however. The passenger platform with the same marking is also very interesting.  Don't you wish sometimes that the pieces in your collection could talk and tell their story?

The Frontenac

The Frontenac appeared in catalogs from 1930 through 1932.  In 1930 and 1931 it was set #1322, and in 1932 it was set #1382 (the #3107 engine had a remote control reverse according to the catalog description that year).

 

In the photo below the 3107 has two different sets of brass identification tags. One has 4 American Flyer Lines tags and the other has one American Flyer Lines and one 3107 tag on each side.

 

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, November 5, 2015 7:45 PM

Something a bit earlier.  A seldom seen 1104 c. 1915-1916?????  The 1914 catalog does not show a 4 wheel 6.5 inch baggage car with the 4 wheel 6.5 inch Parlor Car, but the c. 1916 catalog does show one, but in a low quality drawing with no color indications.

This is only the 2nd car like this that I have observed.  Both 1104 cars that I have seen like this, have come with 1103 Parlor Cars. 

 
 
NWL

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