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Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, January 6, 2013 5:31 PM

Craig,

 

Before tossing the motor aside as unfixable, take a close look at the reverse switch.  Try bypassing the reverse switch and seeing if the motor will run.  I have found these types of reverse switches to be very touchy as they tend to warp and not make contact correctly.

 

NWL

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Posted by Southern Colorado Marx Flyer on Sunday, January 6, 2013 1:38 PM

It was pretty darn good fiction then.  You are a gifted writer, and tears are tears.

A while back I posted a couple times about repairing the worn bushings in a 9900 Zephyr motor.  There were several very helpful replies with suggestions which I took to heart.

I just finished with those repairs and will outline the process.

First I drilled out the old bearings.  I used a 1/4" bit for this.

Here are the bearings showing the elongation:

Then I used a taper reamer to enlarge the holes to fit a 5/16" brass tube, which I inserted and measured.  The tube would not extend past the roller assembly, so I marked the tube. . .

. . .and used a small tube cutter to cut off the small section.

I soldered the tube section using a small propane soldering torch and silver solder.

Then I ground the surface flat.

Next I used progressively smaller brass tubing to reduce the size of the axle hole.  These tubes extended across the frame, and were cut off flush.  They were then soldered in and ground flush.  The final brass tube section (which was 3/16") was cut to fit over the axle and move freely.



Finally, I pressed the wheels onto the axles and fitted them and the gear back onto the frame.  With a little nudging and adjustment, the gear train worked smooth as silk.

Success!  Well, not quite.  I hooked up the motor and . . .nothing . . .  just a few sparks.  It's looking like the motor has a short, I think in the armature.  There is electrical continuity between the three lobes of the armature, and I don't think there should be.  I'll see if I can fix it, but I think it might be beyond my skills.

A more intelligent person would have made sure the motor was working or repairable before replacing the axle bearings.  But I guess I did learn that the latter can be done, and seems to be an effective method of repair - which is why I have gone ahead and posted the information.

Craig

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, January 6, 2013 11:49 AM

Southern Colorado Marx Flyer,

I'm glad you enjoyed the story. I had a lot of fun writing it.   However, I have to confess that the story is pretty much a work of fiction.  Over the years I have read a number of times that if you are going to write about something it ought to be about things that you have some knowledge.  The story this year as well as the one that I wrote last year are drawn from stories in my family, and people that either I or my parents knew.  I have woven many bits and pieces of fact into both stories

So Toby isn't a real boy, he is based on many boys who have been introduced to the hobby by a father or grandfather.  I am not a grandfather yet, my children are college age.  The train room above the garage as described does not yet exist.  It is what I hope to do with the collection when we downsize or move to another house.  The Northwoods Flyer Collection and the Blueboard Central fill a little more than half of our current basement, but a significant portion is stored in boxes, including an S gauge collection that is larger than the prewar collection that is on display.  I have that train room/ museum pretty well conceived in my mind.  You and I will have to compare mental images one day. Smile  The small element about the three part window in the big house and in the attic garage comes from the house I grew up in.  It had a huge attic with those windows and over the years it housed numerous floor layouts.  The most memorable for me being a Wide Gauge American Flyer layout.

Here are a few photos of the Collection.  I think they may actually be posted somewhere else on the thread.  Any over views of the Blueboard Central that I have are very old.  I will have to work on taking some new ones, but at the moment things are a bit cluttered around the layout.

 
 
 
 
I am already putting some ideas together for next year's edition.
 
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The Northwoods Flyer Collection

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American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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Posted by Southern Colorado Marx Flyer on Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:49 AM

Wow!  What a terrific story Northwoods.  I still have tears in my eyes.  Toby is a very lucky boy, and you a very blessed grandpa. 

PS:  I'd love to see pictures of the room above the garage, although your excellent descriptions created great images in my mind.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, January 4, 2013 7:39 PM

Nothing new in this post folks.  I just wanted to add the 2012 Christmas Story to the thread.  I hope you all had a great Christmas and are having a wonderful New Year

 

An American Flyer Tale for Christmas

2012 Edition

  

Toby wasn’t sure how he felt about Christmas coming.  Of course he was excited about the presents that he hoped to get from mom and dad and there was always the growing anticipation to see if Santa would bring the special gifts that he had asked for.  He had written two copies of his letter to Santa to make sure that he knew what Toby wanted.  He had given one copy directly to Mr. Clark the mailman and the other copy he had put in the big mail box at the department store downtown labeled Direct Delivery – North Pole.  Mom had started baking cookies before Thanksgiving and storing them in big tins that had old timey pictures on the covers of people in horse drawn sleighs and wearing old fashioned clothes.  Great Aunt Ruby ordered a fruitcake from Texas every year and had it sent to Toby’s family.  It always came in one of those tins.  He knew that the cookie supply was secure.  He had been practicing the songs that his class would sing for the Christmas Concert at school; one of them was in German.  He had memorized his lines for the Christmas Pageant at church. This year he was one of the Wise Men with a speaking part.  He liked dressing up in the royal looking robes.  He had to wear a fake beard made out of brown fuzzy cords.  It tickled his nose and he was afraid that it would make him sneeze.  His dad had teased him, telling him to be careful not to sneeze so hard that he blew the beard off and it would land in the manger on the Baby Jesus.  That had made Toby laugh, but he still worried about sneezing. 

All of these things made him feel excited and happy as Christmas approached.  They were the things that he looked forward to each year.  But there were some big changes that had happened in the last year and Toby wasn’t sure how he felt about them or how they would effect Christmas. 

Toby’s grandparents lived in a different state.  His family went to visit them several times each year and Grandma and Grandpa came to visit often, especially when Toby or one of his sisters had a special event like a school program or a big game.  His family always went home to Grandma and Grandpa’s big house for Christmas.  Dad and his brothers and sisters had grown up in that house.  Grandpa had grown up in that house too.  Last year as  they were preparing to go to Grandma and Grandpa’s house for Christmas mom and dad told them to pay special attention to this celebration because it would be the last Christmas at the big house.  Grandma and Grandpa had decided to put it up for sale and move to something smaller and easier to take care of. 

Toby loved Grandma and Grandpa’s house, especially when all of his aunts and uncles and cousins were there at Christmas.  It was fun to eat their meals together.  The grown ups would sit at the big table that filled the dining room.  The cousins all sat at two folding tables in the living room.  The windows in both rooms were large and had stained glass panels with faceted jewels at the top.  When the sunlight was just right it made rainbows dance around the room.  He liked sitting there hearing the stories his cousins told, but he especially loved hearing the stories that the adults told about when they were children.  He had learned some very interesting things about his dad by listening to these stories.  The house had another room on the main floor that Grandma called the parlor.  In that room stood the huge Fraser fir decorated with more ornaments and lights than some of the trees in the department store back home.  At the base of that tree there was always a mountain of gifts.  Toby was interested in those, but what fascinated him the most was the big train that ran around the base of the tree through the mountains and tunnels made by the stacks of gifts. 

Grandpa told him that he remembered that train circling the tree every year when he was a boy.  Grandpa and Great Aunt Ruby would lie on the parlor floor watching the train travel round and round and imagine the places that it was carrying its passengers; “New York, Philadelphia, Chicago and all points west!”  It was a big train with a big black steam engine and dark blue passenger cars.  Toby knew it was an American Flyer Presidents Special from 1927.  He also knew that the black steam engine was one that Grandpa had purchased from a friend.  The set had a big electric style engine, but Grandpa liked it better headed by the steamer.  The matching blue engine was there under the tree too, and Grandpa would occasionally run it. 

You could get to the second floor of the house by either of two stair cases.  One set started in the front entry hall.  The second set started in the kitchen.  They met at a landing and then one more set of stairs set at a right angle to the other two led to the second floor.  Toby and his cousins loved playing mountain climber on those stairs, spending hours going up one side and down the other.  Sometimes they even tried to yodel when they reached the top.  That usually brought peals of laughter from the adults downstairs.  The second floor had a long corridor, off of which were doors that led to most of the bedrooms.  Each family had one bedroom to sleep in.  Toby thought that it was probably the room that his aunts or uncles had when they were growing up.  He knew that the bedroom his family stayed in had been his dad’s room.  The adults slept in the big comfy beds while the children slept on the floor in sleeping bags or under cozy down quilts.  Some of the bedrooms had fireplaces.  It was hard to fall asleep during the nights before Christmas, but Toby would snuggle down into his comforter and watch the flames lick at the logs behind the glass doors of the fireplace.  Before he knew it the sun was shining and he could smell pancakes and bacon cooking down in the kitchen. 

At the end of the central hallway was another staircase that led to the third floor.  Of all of the places in the big house the third floor was the one that Toby liked best.  The stairs led to a large room that had funny angles to the ceiling because it was right up under the roof.  It was filled with big comfortable chairs and cases with glass doors filled with books.  It was stocked with all the toys and games that his aunts and uncles had played with as children.  It was a fun place to be on a rainy day because you could cuddle up in a chair, read a book and listen to the wind blow and the rain beat down on the roof.  There was a wooden door in the back wall of the room, and it led to the place that Toby loved more than any other in the big house.  He still remembered the first time that Grandpa had taken him there.  He opened the door and at first all that Toby could see were the three windows at the other end of the room.  There was a tall central window that had a rounded top and two shorter windows, one on each side, that were flat on top.  The middle rounded top window went from the floor almost to the point of the ceiling.  Then Grandpa pushed one of the two round buttons in the light switch on the wall and Toby gasped.  The room was almost filled with tables that held a train layout spread out on them.  As far as Toby could see there was a maze of three rail track with switches and sidings, metal buildings and signals.  Everything was bright and colorful.  Toby and his dad had a train layout in their basement at home, but it was much smaller, and it was HO.  This was an O gauge layout.  The track was smaller than the Wide Gauge train around the Christmas tree.  Dad told Toby that Grandpa had trains from when he was a little boy but he had also been collecting toy trains ever since dad could remember; and all of them were made by American Flyer. 

Toby and Grandpa spent hours and hours in that room when he visited.  He knew what all of the trains were because Grandpa had told him about them and showed them pictures of each train in the original catalogs.  As he got older Grandpa let him put them on the tracks and run them.  The engines and cars had names in the catalogs.  He liked some of the really old ones like “The Frontenac” that was all green, “The Oriental Limited” that was orange, “The Bluebird” that was a deep dark blue like the Presidents Special that ran around the Christmas tree downstairs in the parlor, and “The Ambassador” that was bright red and had lots of brass on it and passenger cars that were 11 inches long. 

There was one train that Toby liked better than any other.  It wasn’t the oldest and it wasn’t the most colorful, but whenever Grandpa asked him which train he wanted to run Toby pointed to the No. 304 Freight Train from 1939.  The engine was a streamlined steam engine.  It looked sleek and powerful.  It was different than the other steam engines because it had a front that reminded him of a Roman soldier’s helmet.  Grandpa told him it was a copy of a real steam engine that had been created by a famous industrial designer; but Toby could never remember his name.  The set had several freight cars that he would hook up to the engine and move from town to town on the layout.  Sometimes Grandpa would have the set stored away in the boxes under the layout.  The original box the set came in had a paper label on it with a steam engine and a streamlined engine.  Toby knew just where Grandpa kept it stored under the layout.

At the end of the Christmas holiday last year Toby and Grandpa were up on the third floor running trains until it was time for his family to leave.  Dad had come up to the train room and watched them for a few minutes and then softly said “Its time to go.”  Toby stood at the door and took one last look at everything.  Grandpa stood behind him, placed his hands on Toby’s shoulders and looked too.  Then he leaned over and kissed the top of Toby’s head.  Grandpa reached over and pushed the button on the light switch, gently closed the door, and they down the stairs together. 

Saying goodbye always took forever in Toby’s family.  There were kisses to give and words of advice and encouragement.  It amazed him that there were still questions being asked and information exchanged even after spending days together.  Finally Toby climbed into the car and took his regular spot.  Grandma and Grandpa stood on the big front porch and waved.  Grandma wiped her eyes with a tissue.  Toby let his eyes wander up to the third floor windows for just a second.  The sun was reflecting off the round top of the tall middle window.  Then dad turned the corner and it was all gone. 

Back home life settled into the usual busy routine and Toby had little time to think about Grandma and Grandpa.  Dad would be on the phone with one of them fairly often and he would give updates on the changes taking place.  First came the news that Grandma and Grandpa had found a house they liked.  Dad was a little sad the day that he reported that the real estate agent had put a For Sale sign in front of the big house.  Then Grandma and Grandpa made an offer on the smaller house, it was accepted and they were setting a day to move. One week during the summer mom and dad traveled to the big house and Toby and his sisters stayed with friends.  They were going to get furniture and other things that were dad’s because the new house was much smaller and there wasn’t enough room for Grandma and Grandpa to take everything with them.  

Then one day a moving van pulled up to Toby’s house and some men started unloading boxes and furniture wrapped in heavy pads and blankets.  As the men unwrapped the furniture and put it in the garage he recognized the furniture from the bedroom in the big house where his family stayed.  They carried in the bed with the headboard that was at least six feet tall with all kinds of carved curlicues at the top and the dresser with matching carvings, and a big mirror.  Eventually they unwrapped all of the furniture from dad’s  room at the big house.  There was one particularly large wrapped piece that puzzled Toby until they took the padding off.  It was his favorite chair with the big wings from the third floor playroom.  Mom had the movers put that directly into Toby’s bedroom right by the window.  He sat down in the chair, closed his eyes and breathed in deeply.  It smelled like Grandma and Grandpa’s house, and he smiled. 

It took mom and dad several weeks to rearrange the furniture in their house and move the things from the big house in from the garage.  The old bedroom furniture went into their bedroom.  There were plenty of boxes from the big house too.  It took even longer to unpack those.  Toby was mildly interested, but not one of them contained any trains.  He wondered what had happened to Grandpa’s train collection, but he was afraid to ask.  Dad had talked about many things being sold at an auction and Toby feared that other people were playing with the trains he had known all his life. 

Finally it was Christmas break and Toby’s family was on their way to Grandma and Grandpa’s new house.  Toby had not been there yet but he had seen pictures of it.  It looked nice but it was small and only one story.  He knew that his family would be staying at a motel not far from the new house. And all of his aunts and uncles were staying there too.  As they drove along he tried to imagine what the new house was like inside.  His thoughts wandered to the third floor of the big house, and he wondered where the trains had gone, and he wondered if Grandpa was sad.  He didn’t like those thoughts so he shook his head and tried to imagine all of the good food they would eat and where everyone would sit for Christmas dinner, and what Santa had left under the tree for him.

When they got to the motel the rest of the family members were there already.  There was much hugging and kissing and exclamations of “Oh my, Toby you look like you have grown a foot!”  It wasn’t that much, but it made him feel good.  All of the families had rooms very close to one another and all of the cousins wandered back and forth among the rooms. 

After a while dad called Toby’s family together and said it was time to go to the new house.  The ride wasn’t long but it seemed that his feelings were very mixed up.  He felt both excited and worried at the same time.  Dad pulled the car up in front of a house that Toby recognized from the photos.  The windows were all aglow.  He noticed that there were lights around the windows; the same lights that had been around the windows at the big house.  As the family started to get out of the car, suddenly the front door opened spilling the warm light from inside on to the small porch and sidewalk.  It seemed like Grandma and Grandpa were spilling out of the house too.  There was a great deal more hugging and kissing and exclaiming.  As Toby walked through the front door he recognized a familiar aroma.  Grandma was cooking something wonderful.  The new house seemed as familiar as the big house.  Everyone hung up their coats and started to walk into the living room where a fire was crackling in a small fireplace.  Immediately Toby spied the Christmas tree, it was still a Fraser fir.  It was smaller than other years but it was just as tightly packed with the lights and ornaments that he remembered.  There were mountains of packages around the tree as usual.  Toby could hardly believe his eyes.  Circling the tree was the big black steam engine pulling the 1927 American Flyer Presidents Special.  He broke into a big smile.  He looked up at Grandpa, who was smiling too; and he winked at Toby. 

Very shortly the other family members started to arrive and it was chaos for a while.  Eventually the adults all sat down at the big table that didn’t quite fit in the dining room. It intruded into the living room and one of the chairs was almost in front of the Christmas tree.  All of the cousins still sat at folding tables placed in a room that Grandma called the sun porch and in the front hall.  Everyone still fit. 

When the meal was finished and the last morsels of pie eaten it was time to open presents.  It was another time of chaos.  The folding tables were taken down while dishes were being washed and dried.  The extra leaves were taken out of the table and the chairs repositioned.  The adults found places to sit on chairs.  Most of the cousins found places to sit on the floor.  It was the job of Toby’s older cousins to distribute the gifts.  He sat and waited for the packages with his name on them to be handed to him. 

It took a long time for everyone to open their gifts.  Toby was most curious about the oddly shaped gift that had a tag on it saying it was from Grandma and Grandpa.  When it came time for him to open it he chuckled because it was several boxes taped together and a wad of cloth here and there to give it its odd shape.  He opened the biggest box and found it stuffed with crumpled up newspaper.  Digging through it he found another box wrapped in red and white striped paper. Something seemed vaguely familiar about its shape.  He started to tear at the wrapping paper.  The first thing he saw was the familiar American Flyer label with the steam engine and the streamlined engine.  Toby drew in his breath sharply.  In his hands was his beloved No. 304 Freight Train from 1939.  “I thought it was gone forever.”  That brought some chuckles from the family.  When the next person began opening their present Grandpa leaned over to him and whispered “I have something to show you later.”  Toby nodded and whispered back “Thank you Grandpa, Thank you so much.”  He had a hard time paying attention to the rest of the gift opening.  He carefully opened each of the old boxes and examined the car inside. The gun metal engine looked and felt powerful in his hands.  He could hardly believe that it was his now.  It was going to be difficult to wait until he could watch it pulling the consist of freight cars along the track.  He noticed that Grandpa had included enough track in the box so that he could set up an oval of track, an oval that would go around his Christmas tree at home. 

When the presents were all opened the adults sat talking and sipping a cup of coffee or tea or a glass of egg nog and nibbling cookies.  The cousins were all busy playing with a new toy or trying out a new game.  Toby sat contentedly with his old friend resting in his lap.  Grandpa motioned for him to come over to him.  Softly he said, “Get your coat and come with me.”  Toby slipped on his coat while Grandpa put on his.  He followed Grandpa through the kitchen and out the back door.  It was dark out but the moon was bright enough for Toby to make his way.  He noticed that there was a path through the snow that led to the garage.  Toby hadn’t paid much attention to it when they arrived but now he noticed something unusual about it. 

It had a second floor that loomed above the two sets of garage doors.  He was surprised to see that on the second level there were three windows grouped together.  The center window was taller than the other two and it had a rounded top.  Grandpa led him to the service door of the garage and unlocked it.  They stepped inside and turned on the lights and stamped the snow off their feet.  Along the back wall there was a flight of stairs that led to the second floor.  Grandpa led the way up the stairs.  As Toby’s head cleared the floor he could see the moonlight shining through the three windows.  Grandpa turned on the lights and Toby let out a cry of delight.  There in front of him was Grandpa’s train collection.  The second floor of the garage was filled with tables that held a maze of tracks and switches and sidings.  The layout was even larger than the one at the big house.  Here were all of the colorful building and accessories that Toby knew and loved.  Even better, there were rows and rows of shelves on every wall where Grandpa had every one of his American Flyer trains on display.

“Grandpa, I thought you had sold everything!”

“Not a chance Toby.  I still have lots of collecting to do; and you and I have trains to run.”

Toby smiled and said. “Thanks for the freight set Grandpa; you know it’s my favorite.”

“I sure do.  I couldn’t think of anyone who would appreciate it more, and your family needs to have a real train around your tree.  Besides, I have a lead on an early variation of an Illini set and I need space to display it.  Just don’t tell your grandmother that I am buying another train!”

 

Toby hugged Grandpa as they laughed about that.

 

Here are some photos of Toby's No. 304 Freight Train from 1939. 

 
 
 Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 9:49 AM

I believe that the correct cars for the 1937 version are the red cars, same as the 1936 version.  I know that I have 4 matching red cars that I put with a 1937 engine and tender, with the tender having the same cheap trucks as the cars. 

 

I am unsure about the correctness of my 4 cars as a set and believe they may have been some sort of department store special.  All I can say is the 4 cars are in excellent condition and match perfectly.

 

NWL

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Posted by Southern Colorado Marx Flyer on Monday, December 31, 2012 8:45 PM

Hello Northwoods.  I'm not sure what passenger cars are appropriate for the 1937 version.  There is a set of red enamel passenger cars with what I think are Type 8 trucks currently listed on eBay.  They are not cheap, but I don't know what a fair price would be . . or even if they are the right cars.

I could link the eBay address, but I don't know if that is allowed on this forum.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Monday, December 31, 2012 1:49 PM

Southern Coloroado Marx Flyer,

Thanks for the update on replacing wheels in pony and trailing trucks.  I look forward to seeing what the flickering bulbs look like in the firebox lights.  That would be an excellent upgrade.

The photo of your passenger set above the doors is nice too.

1937 Pennsylvania Freight   Set #1716

In 1937 American Flyer repeated the two Pennsylvania sets from 1936. The main difference was that the streamlined engine went through several changes.

Most of the artwork used was the same as 1936 except that the engine and tender were now a grey color and the wheel configuration was changed to a 2-4-4.

 
The sets are still shown with the black 0-4-2
 
 
This engine is one that I inherited from my father.
 
 
 
I also inherited the rest of the set.
 
 
 

I will be working on finding a suitable passenger set.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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Posted by Southern Colorado Marx Flyer on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:41 PM

That is a nice looking set Northwoods.  Thanks for posting the catalog page too.

I have the passenger train above a door in my dining room (with a rogue baggage car).

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Posted by Southern Colorado Marx Flyer on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 3:52 PM

I ordered and received the correct replacement wheels for the Hudson and completed the repair of the trailing truck and illustrated the steps. [see page 74]

Next will be re-assembly of the locomotive.

. . . . all back together again, and running like a charm.  These Hudsons are very nice, and they are brutes compared to any thing else I have.   I love the fire glow.  Which makes me wonder if there are such things as  14-18v orange flicker bulbs.

UPDATE:  Found orange flicker lights (LED) that will run on AC transformer power.  I'm going to order a couple and try them out in the Hudson fire box.

http://miniatures.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=miniatures&cdn=hobbies&tm=107&f=21&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=4&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//modeltrainsoftware.com/

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:03 AM

1936    Pennsylvania Sets

I have assembled a few more sets recently. They include two sets that feature the Pennsylvania Streamlined Locomotive that is based on the design by Raymond Loewy for the Broadway Limited. When you open the 1936 catalog they are the first sets that you meet.

 

 
The catalog page also includes a photo  of the real locomotive.  It is interesting that the photo is not of the best quality, but it does hide the fact that the engine as cataloged in 1936 is a very odd 0-4-2 configuration, which you would not really notice because the photo of the actual locomotive is too dark to see the running gear.
 
 
 
American Flyer also introduced a new sheet metal tender this year.  It is black to match the locomotive.  This is the only year that the locomotive and tender appeared in black.  The locomotive isn't given a number in the catalog, but in price lists the locomotive-tender combination is given a number of 640 which consits of the 629 (type XXI sheet metal) engine and 1131 (type XII sheet metal) tender.
 
 
 
 The two sets shown are:
 
#1710RT   Pennsylvania Passenger
 
 
 The red passenger cars are part of the family collection of trains that I inherited from my dad.  It took a lot of years to match them up with this engine.
 
And   #1711RT   Pennsylvania Freight
 
 
 I recently completed this set with the purchase of a 3211 caboose.
 
And here is my attempt at a recreation of the catalog page from 1936.
 
 
If you look closely at the catalog illustration you will see that the passenger cars have the less expensive #10 truck, while the freight cars have the common and long running #8 truck.  My examples follow the catalog illustrations.
 
 
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Northwoods Flyer

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

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American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Tuesday, December 4, 2012 4:07 PM

Northwoods,

 

Not sure about the red roofed variation.  I know that there are some roof color variations on these types of cars, inclusive of the statesman, eagle, and yorktown/bunker hill type lithographed cars, but  I do not really follow all of the variations of wide gauge flyer and am by no means an expert on wide gauge.

NWL

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, December 4, 2012 11:37 AM

Nationwidelines

Northwoods wrote

 

"Schuweiler indicates that these cars do have a variation.  They come with spring loaded opening doors as this example does or decaled doors.  Hmmm I wonder when those will turn up?"

 

I did not actually read Alan's description of these cars, but the two variations are the spring loaded doors that you show in the photos or unpunched doors that are lithographed.  Not sure where the decaled door comes in, other than in the red warrior type cars.  I have seen the lithographed door variation of these cars before and I would not say that they are rare.

 

NationWideLines,

My mistake, I guess I shouldn't write my postings late at night.   Schuweiler does say that they are unpuched doors that are lithographed not decaled.  I'm glad they aren't rare, at least I should be able to come across a set at some point. 

I will also have to watch more closely for smooth roofed versions since you believe that they probably came that way as your set would indicate. 

Have you ever seen the red roofed version?  Schuweiler asks for confirmation in his book.  I wonder if they have turned up since the book was published?

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Northwoods Flyer

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

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American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Tuesday, December 4, 2012 9:54 AM

Northwoods commented on the smooth roofs versus roofs with ventilators and the extra car he purchased having smooth roofs versus his set with the ventilators.  My set has smooth roofs on all cars with the springloaded doors.  Possibly the difference is related to production year? 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Tuesday, December 4, 2012 9:51 AM

Northwoods wrote

 

"Schuweiler indicates that these cars do have a variation.  They come with spring loaded opening doors as this example does or decaled doors.  Hmmm I wonder when those will turn up?"

 

I did not actually read Alan's description of these cars, but the two variations are the spring loaded doors that you show in the photos or unpunched doors that are lithographed.  Not sure where the decaled door comes in, other than in the red warrior type cars.  I have seen the lithographed door variation of these cars before and I would not say that they are rare.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:41 AM

The American Flyer Tale for Christmas -   2012 Edition has its own thread here:

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/212301/2325440.aspx#2325440

I haven't posted it on this thread yet.  I thought I would do that sometime after Christmas.  The 2011 editon about Petey Menardi and his Christmas list for 1930 is posted on page 54 :

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/116423.aspx?sort=ASC&pi350=54

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Posted by mersenne6 on Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:35 AM

What happened to the Christmas story and the comments that followed?

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, December 4, 2012 12:43 AM

Set 1469    Frontier Town   1930 and 1931

My parents always told me that patience was a virtue, and that all good things come to those who wait.  Those values have come in handy in the collecting hobby.  My collecting career has been filled with examples of waiting until the right piece comes along in a condition that I will accept for the collection and at a price that I am willing to pay.  I've been able to complete the assembly of a number of sets recently, after waiting for the last car or the engine to appear.  The Frontier Town cataloged in 1930 and 1931 is an example.

 I purchased the engine a number of years ago and had it heading up my Commander Set until I was able to find an acceptable 4653 to head it up.
 
 The 4654 sat on the shelf until recently when I was able to purchase a set of cars that would make up the consist of the Frontier Town.  It appears in the 1930 and 1931 catalog.
 
 
The train is made up of the #4654 New Haven style Box Cab Electric Locomotive.
 
 
 
Schuweiler describes the window trim as azure blue - what a great color.
 
It has 2 - 4151(variation C)  "Bunkerhill" Pullmans  Notice that the black lettering is in green letterboards.
 
 
And #4152 (variation C) "Yorktown" Observation. It also has black lettering in green letterboards.
 
 
It might be difficult to see in this photo of the catalog illustration but the letterboards are definitely a green color, the same as the color outlining the windows.
 
 
Once I had all of the pieces of the train and I had the catalog out I thought it would be fun to see if I had all of the accessory pieces that came with the set.  Guess what!  I do, except for one piece which is a stand in.
 
 
It was fun to realize that I was able to assemble a reasonable representation of the set.   Here are a few more photos.
 
 
 
 
 
One of the hazards of collecting piecemeal is that you occasionally end up with cars that don't really match.  I discovered that my memory isn't as good as I think it is.  I had purchased a single 4151 Pullman a while ago.  I assumed that it would match the cars I had just bought.  When they arrived I discovered that they all had ventilator bumps while the single car I had purchased had a smooth roof.  It could be a variation or it could be that a previous owner just swapped out a better roof for the car.
 
 
Schuweiler indicates that these cars do have a variation.  They come with spring loaded opening doors as this example does or decaled doors.  Hmmm I wonder when those will turn up?
 
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Posted by Southern Colorado Marx Flyer on Sunday, November 25, 2012 9:49 AM

Thank you Northwoods.  I need to clarify that the lead and trailing trucks have different construction.  The lead truck wheels rotate freely on the axle and are held onto the axle by the ridges on the ends of  the axle itself.  The trailing truck wheels do not turn on their axles.  The axles are splined and it is the axles that turn within the journals of the truck.  I'll start a set of pictures and comment about repairing those wheels here.  I thought I had ordered trailing truck wheels, but discovered I hadn't.  When I  have them I will complete the repair description. 

For now, here is the rear truck with the damaged wheels.

The axles are gently pried from the truck frame.  The wheels are then removed using a wheel puller (alternatively, the axles could likely be punched out) .  You can see the splines on the axle onto which the wheels are press-fit.



The new wheels are drilled to 5/32" to fit the axle. 

The new  wheels are then press fit onto the axle splines using an arbor press.  The wheels are spaced correctly when they just cover the splines on the axle.

The wheels/axle then are fitted back into the trailing truck frame.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:56 PM

AF53

Northwoods - Very nice looking set! In many ways it looks like the smaller version to my Wide Gauge set "The Century" 1931? (I don't have my reference material with me for the year). I'm still looking for some of the cars to complete my set, it's been more than a few months and no luck yet.

Which brings me to my question. Approximately how long did it take for you to "build" this set?

AF53,

I did a quick check of the catalogs and it looks like "The Century" was cataloged in 1932.  There was a similar looking set in Narrow Gauge that same year called the "New Paul Revere" which was headed by a bell ringing 3315 and had two 3171 pullmans and a 3172 observation, all of which were lighted.  Flyer really liked the tan and green combination on its passenger cars.

Its hard to predict how long it might take to find the additional items to complete a set.  With my Iron Duke set it took about 2 years.  I happened across the three passenger cars in a lot on ebay about two years ago.  The matching engine was a very recent purchase.  Part of the reason being that I couldn't find an engine in a condition that I found acceptable.  I am not a purist by any means but the examples of the 3194 engine that I did find were either in a condition that I wasn't willing to accept or they went for more money than I was willing to pay. I finally decided to throw out a bid on a nicely restored example. The hunt is definitely a part of the hobby that I enjoy.  I have also learned that if I am patient the item that I want will become available at a price I am willing to pay.  There are still several sets that I am working on to complete.  Sadly it seems to be a truism that I come across them when I am least able to afford them.  However, I follow the philosophy of a collector that I knew early in my collecting career. "The time to buy an antique (read "train") is when you see it."  I bet that the additional items that you are looking for will appear when you least expect them.  The Dixie Queen set that I posted earler was on my 'Wanted" list for almost 4 years before I finally found it in a condition that I would accept for a price I was willing to pay.


Southern Colorado Marx Flyer,

Thanks for the update on your Hudson project and especially for the "how to" with excellent and detailed photos on replacing the wheels in lead or trailing trucks.  That is invaluable information.  I have several engines that are in need of the same kind of repair.  You almost give me the courage to try it on my own.

NationWideLines,

Thanks for the additional photo and clarification on the lighter color on the block signal.  The variations in prewar Flyer just seem to go on and on.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 6:17 PM

Northwoods,

 

My previous photos did not show well, so I took this photo.  The color on this signal is the very late light green that would be described as an apple green.  It appears on a number of later Flyer items including the 2042 automatic crosssing gate and the 2043 train control semaphore.  It also was used on late c. 1939 freight cars, including log, gondola, and dump cars, and some accessory bases. 

 

I believe that your variation is a late dark colored block signal as I have another dark colored block signal in the same type of box as my light colored variation. 

 

Hopefully this photo shows the color a bit better

 

 

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Posted by Southern Colorado Marx Flyer on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:03 AM

Replacing the wheels on the lead truck of the 1680 Hudson.

1.  Remove the truck from the locomotive.

2.  Using a Dremel grinding bit, remove the ridge on one end of the axle.

3.  Slide the wheel off.   Notice the axle has the end ridge ground down.

4.  Pull the axle through the truck weight and slide the other wheel off.   Notice the difference between the end of the axle with the ridge and the one that has been ground down.

5.  Slide on a new wheel (I had to drill the holes in the new wheels to 5/32), slide the axle through the truck frame, and slide on the 2nd wheel.

6.  Using a hammer, place the ridged end of the axle on a firm surface and use a hammer to strike the other end slightly obliquely to recreate a ridge on the previously ground down surface.  This only took a few moderate strikes.

This is how I did it and it worked fine.  There may be other and better ways.



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Posted by Southern Colorado Marx Flyer on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:37 PM

Thanks for the further information Northwoods.  I think the wide-gauge bug hasn't noticed me yet since I have a whole lot of narrow gauge projects in my queue.  While awaiting parts and tools to start the axle bushing replacement on the 9900 motor, I started on the Hudson.

You said you were interested in a progress report, so I'll start that.  I started out simply with replacing the lead truck wheels.  That involved grinding down the ridge on one side of the axle, pulling the axle though the truck, slightly widening the holes in the new wheels (to 5/32), sliding one wheel on, then sliding the axle back through the truck and sliding the second wheel on, then peening (not sure if that is the right term) the outside of the axle to recreate the ridge that holds the wheel on.  I'll post pictures in a bit.

Next, the motor.  Oh brother.  I pulled the motor and disconnected much of the rods and such.  I also disconnected the motor wires from the light sockets in the loco body (one was already off).  Then I spent the next week an hour or two at a time trying to get the motor to run.  I loosened the wheels a bit (one was rubbing on the frame) lubricated everything and cleaned with contact cleaner).  I pulled the brush housing and cleaned and polished the armature contact plates, then re-installed the housing with the springs and brushes in place.  Tried it out . . no soap.  So then I started fiddling with the reverse unit and eventually wired around it.  Nope.  Hours of frustration.  I was ready to conclude it was a lost cause, but decided to try once more.  I then checked the wiring for continuity to see if I could find any shorts.  Lo and behold there was perfect continuity between the two brush tubes.  That shouldn't be. I discovered a previous owner had soldered the wires to the brush tubes in such a way that there was electrical contact between the tube and the housing.  I cleaned up all of the soldering, but still was getting humming and strange sparking from one brush tube.  Off again with the brush housing, redoing the wiring and soldering to the brush tubes and discovering that the brush springs were too short.  One had been stretched way out, the other was not putting any pressure on the brush. So I found four springs in my parts and put two in each side. I then remounted the housing (tip:  use small pieces of tape to hold the brushes in the housing while you mount it, then pull the tape out).  I hooked 'er up and to my amazement the motor ran!  Now I have to decide whether to hook up the reverse stuff or not.  I'll probably just go with forward only as I have heard that the reverse mechanism is not reliable.  There are two screws on the top of the motor chassis that look to be there to lock up the large pivoting arm of the reverse system.  But then again I might hook that back up and see.  It is apretty crude system with an arm that pivots down when power is initiated and engages "v" grooves in a tilting block moving it from one side to the other, allowing fingers and contact strips to engage in appropriate combinations.  Well, I'll sleep on it - better now knowing I actually have a running motor.  

  Craig

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Monday, November 19, 2012 11:40 PM

NationWideLines,

When you posted your color variation of the 2218 I had to go check the examples in my collection.  I discovered that I had a light green variation as well.

Here are the examples that I have

 

 
In the photo the two shades of green do not look as different from one another as your examples.  But in person you can see that there is a difference.
 
 
My lighter green example also came with the track activators (Which are not connected to Flyer track. I think the track pieces might be Marx).
 
 
They all came in a box that has some condition issues, but this is definitely a late example of the Block Signal.
 
 
As I have said before, even in simple trackside accessories there are plenty of variations.
 
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:49 PM

Back a few pages there was a discussion of the 2218 Block Signal.  At this past York I noted a couple of late light green 2218's.  I could not recall seeing one before and found this one. 

 

 
 
Here is a group photo of the color variations.
 

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Posted by AF53 on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:10 PM

Northwoods - Very nice looking set! In many ways it looks like the smaller version to my Wide Gauge set "The Century" 1931? (I don't have my reference material with me for the year). I'm still looking for some of the cars to complete my set, it's been more than a few months and no luck yet.

Which brings me to my question. Approximately how long did it take for you to "build" this set?

Ray

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Posted by mersenne6 on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:06 PM

Yes, the side rod is a reproduction and Trickel makes them.  I just picked up a few from him for some of my engines this past York.  The originals are a much darker shade of gray. 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:20 PM

Set  #1323    1931    Iron Duke

As I have collected Pre War trains over the years one of my goals has been to assemble sets as they appeared in the catalogs.  It is very rare that I have been able to afford an entire set and even less likely that I have been able to afford an entire set in its original box from its original owner (the gold standard of authenticity).  As a result I have purchased individual cars, or sets of cars, engines, tenders and accompanying accessories as I find them.  I have reached the point in my collecting addiction that I can finally assemble some sets.  This is where having catalogs (although not in identifying every set) and other resources has been invaluable.

Today let me present the Iron Duke,  set #1323 from 1931.

The set appears in the upper right hand corner of the page.

 

 
 
 
I have finally found all of the components and assembled what I think is a reasonable approximation of what the set looked like.
 
Schuweiler makes note in the Greenberg Guide that the illustration and the description and observed sets do not all agree on what the set looks like.  So until I can see an original boxed set I am going with this as an example.
 
The engine is a Type IV #3198 matched up with a Type IV # 3199 - which has a combination number of #3194 - you have to love Flyer and their numbering system. (Both the engine and tender have been restored - a departure from my usual practice of only buying items in original condition, but these are hard to find in really nice shape)
 
 
 
The set contains two #3176 Pullmans - unlighted version of a Wide/Low Profile car
 
 
and 1 -  #3177 Observation - an unlighted version of a Wide/Low Profile car.
 
 
My engine only came with one side rod.  The side rods were die cast and prone to crumbling.  I am not sure that the one that is on the engine is an original or if it is a reproduction.  I will have to do some research to see if these side rods have been reproduced and are available.
 
 
 
This might be a fun train to run around the tree this year.
 
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:09 PM

Craig,

Southern Colorado Marx Flyer,

You picked up a nice example of the Flyer Hudson.  Even if it isn't in pristine condition it is still impressive.  Its actually pre-weathered.  I appreciate every scrape and dent and ding that the items in my collection have.  Those imperfections tell the story of how much enjoyment our trains have brought to their original owners. I look forward to hearing about your progress in getting it to run again.  Its always nice to bring these things back to life. The passenger cars look to be in fairly good condition too, and you should be able to pick up some additional cars fairly easily if you want more.

One of the folks who got me into collecting prewar trains used to tell the story of how when he was a young boy he and his friends would hold train races with their standard gauge trains.  They would set up long stretches of straight track on the floor, put their engines on the track and race them at full throttle. When I first heard the story all I could think of was the mayhem at the end of the track when the engines flew off and onto the floor or banged into furniture.  He told me that they took the cushions off the overstuffed chairs and sofa and ran the engines into them.  Needless to say once mom found out about it the races were called for the day.

I like your idea of setting up a thread on repair and maintenance of Pre War Flyer.  You are certainly welcome to post that information here too.  From what I have been reading it looks as if you have gotten some good information and additional perspectives on how to deal with your bushing issue. I'm not much of a repairman when it comes to the trains I have, but that is an aspect of the hobby I hope to pursue when I retire..someday.

Oh and if you think that the Narrow Gauge engines are substantial, just wait until you get bitten by the Wide Gauge bug.

 

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Posted by Southern Colorado Marx Flyer on Monday, November 12, 2012 5:14 PM

Thank you JDET1.  That is a very clear description.  I have picked up some brass tube that I think will work, and ordered a taper reamer.  The holes in the motor frame are just a smidgeon less than 5/16" and the axles are 5/32."  I would probably have a hard time finding a tube with those dimensions, so I will try using multiple tubes, one inside the other to achieve that result.  While I think I can let the inner tubes free float, the outermost (5/16") tube will be attached in some way to the frame so that it cannot slip inside with side-to-side movement.  Running the tubes from wheel to wheel could work, but may be too much with the multiple tubes.

Craig

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