Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

[Nationwidelines]

Dominion Flyer

 

Dominion Flyer items appeared sometime in the 1920s, with the T. Eaton Co. showing a 1218 engine followed by a Dominion Flyer 6 1/2 inch baggage and coach in their fall/ winter 1923-1924 catalog.  The Fall/Winter 1924-1925 catalog shows a number of Dominion Flyer sets, including 1107-1108 cars and the 6.5 inch cars.  The 1925-1926 catalog shows only the 6.5 inch cars, with the 1927-1928 fall winter catalog showing a regular American Flyer Oriental Limited set, with all catalogs after that point showing regular production American Flyer items.

 

In speaking with fellow collectors of Dominion Flyer items, it is my understanding that the baggage cars are harder to find than the coaches, which is understandable since sets came either without a baggage car or with a baggage car and 1 or 2 coaches, indicating that more coaches were produced than baggage cars.

 

Here are some 6.5 inch Dominion Flyer cars

 

 

 

 

 

As for color variations in the 1105-1106 cars, I am only aware of red and blue.  I know the 1107-1108 Dominion Flyer cars also come in green.  There are also different road names on the cars.  There can either be the Canadian National Railways, like on the cars shown above or Canadian Pacific Railways.  However, I believe that the different road names only appear on the 1107-1108 cars.

I have also seen some late 1106 coaches that have interior lights in them and have one red coach, not shown, with an interior light.

[Nationwidelines]

Items for the Canadian Market

 

Sometime in the mid-teens American Flyer began making items for the Canadian Market, apparently to compete with Hafner.  Many of these items are believed to have been made for special sets sold through the T. Eaton Co. of Toronto, as that company produced catalogs that showed Dominion Flyer Lines items in their catalog artwork.

 

Here are a couple of the Flyer produced items for the Canadian Market.

 

A Continental Flyer Line 1107 baggage in maroon c. 1916

 

 

A Continental Flyer Line 1108 baggage car in brown, c. 1916

 

 

An Imperial Limited Line 1107 coach in brown c. 1916

 

 

An Imperial Limited Line 1108 baggage in yellow with green letterboard stripe.

 

 

I have also seen the Imperial Limited Coach in yellow and green to match the above baggage and in brown without the CPR lettering underneath the windows.  I believe that the baggage may exist in brown also.

 

NWL

[Northwoods Flyer]

This exists as a separate thread on the forum but I like to keep as much Flyer related material as I can available through this thread.

 

An American Flyer Tale for Christmas

2013 Edition

 

Most of the time Jillian thought that having four older brothers was the best thing that a girl could have.  And then there were other times when she wished that she was an only child.  Today was one of those days when she wished that all four of her brothers would evaporate. 

For weeks she had been anticipating everyone being home for the Christmas holiday.  It would be just like every other Christmas with the house full of people.  Her brothers were always bringing friends home or dashing out to play a pick-up game of football or pond hockey.  They usually let her tag along to watch, or they invited her to play when they were shorthanded.  Jillian was a talented athlete in her own right, but her chosen sport was soccer.  Her coach told her that she was faster than any player that he had ever coached.  That gave her a sense of confidence and inspired her to always play her best. 

Her brothers started arriving home the weekend before Christmas.  Her oldest brother James arrived home first.  During the summer he had taken a job on the other side of the state.  They didn’t see him very often but he frequently sent notes to Jillian asking her how school and soccer were going.  Several hours later her second brother Jesse came bounding in the front door.  Just like mom had predicted he had a huge laundry bag flung over his shoulder.  It probably contained every piece of clothing he owned.  He was going to school at the state university several hours away and had ridden home with his roommate.  The last ones to arrive were her twin brothers Joe and Josh.  All their lives they had done things together and when it came time to go to college they had even picked the same engineering school to attend.  Fortunately they hadn’t taken the same classes.  As freshmen they had the worst possible time slots for their final exams. When Josh’s final was done they just had enough time to get aboard the bus that would get them home very late.  The roads were bad that night and mom and dad had stayed up waiting for them to arrive.  They told Jillian that they were working on the last of the preparations for Christmas, but she could tell that they were worried.  She had gone upstairs to bed before they got home, but she knew immediately when they arrived.  There was thumping and bumping in the front hall and then the sound of her two older brothers thundering down the stairs with greetings and loud voices.  Jillian threw on her robe and slippers and headed down the stairs.  As she reached the landing of the stairs she looked down and saw her four brothers and mom and dad all hugging and talking at the same time.  She paused for a moment and took it all in.  It felt good to have the family all together.  Then she bounded down the stairs and joined the celebration. 

The following days were full of preparations and celebrating.  Mom and Dad had gone to great lengths to have the house decorated with all the familiar decorations.  For weeks Mom had been baking everyone’s favorite cookies and treats and the tins on the sun porch were full.  Dad had gotten all of the outside decorations and lights put up shortly after Thanksgiving. 

Several days after the tree was up and decorated Dad had dug out the old train set that he had as a boy and put it under the tree.  Jillian hadn’t seen it in years.  Her brothers had always monopolized it when it had been under the tree and all she had been allowed to do was sit on the floor and watch it circle the tree.  Dad had packed it up one year after he discovered the boys crashing the engine into their cars and trucks; creating spectacular wrecks.

Now that it was out on display again the boys were monopolizing it just as they had years ago.  Jillian had watched them play with it so often when she was younger that she knew just how to set it up and operate it.  Before the boys came home she had asked Dad to show her how to run it.  They had spent several hours that afternoon watching it run around the tree and Dad told her several stories about it.  He told her about the Christmas that he had gotten it and how Grandpa had helped him set it up.  He told her about Grandma giving him an old bed sheet to use as a snowy landscape.  He could remember who had given him the extra cars and accessories that he got each year for his birthday and Christmas.  Jillian enjoyed hearing the stories and they gave special meaning to that train running around the tree.  Dad had encouraged her to play with it, but to treat it well.  She was fascinated by the way it traveled along and she began to feel confident in running it. 

That is one of the reasons she was so frustrated with her brothers today.  All four of them were in the living room monopolizing the train again and she couldn’t even get near it.  They didn’t seem to appreciate it any more today than they had when Dad packed it away years ago.  Their conversations bothered her too.  James kept talking about how much money they could get for it if Dad sold the pieces individually to collectors.  Jesse was focused on how much fun the train wrecks had been and wanted to run the engine into all kinds of things to see what would happen.  The twins were occupied with trying to apply the things that they had learned in their classes, like momentum and amps and volts and watts; most of which Jillian had no idea what they were talking about.  The most frustrating thing was that they ignored her or anything that she said.  Finally she got frustrated and announced to them that she wanted to run the train.  All of the chattering among the boys stopped and four sets of eyes focused on her as if she had poinsettias growing out of her ears.  That’s when Jesse told her not to be dumb. “Girls don’t know anything about trains or how to run them.  Trains and technical things are meant for boys.” 

Jillian was furious.  Her face turned a bright red and she stormed out the room.  This was the part of having only brothers that frustrated her.  It had happened before and she always felt angry and hurt.  She retreated to her room for a few minutes where she plotted all kinds of ways to take revenge on the boys for being so thoughtless and mean.  After a few minutes as she began to calm down she remembered what she had done on other occasions when she felt mistreated.  She decided it was time to go for a visit to Auntie Mimi and Uncle Dick. 

Jillian went down to the front hall where she could hear her brothers chattering in the living room, slipped on her coat, hat, gloves and boots and headed out the front door.  She closed it with just a little more force than she needed to so that it sounded inside the house as if she had slammed the door in anger.  She wondered if the boys would even notice. 

Auntie Mimi and Uncle Dick lived two blocks away from her house.  They were actually her mother’s aunt and uncle which made them her great-aunt and great-uncle.  That didn’t make any difference to Jillian, she always felt welcome and loved when she went to their house.  They had no children of their own so they treated Jillian and her brothers as if they were their own children.  As she got closer to their house she felt some of the anger and frustration drain away.  By the time she got to the steps leading up to the porch and climbed them to the front door she was feeling eager to see them and taste some of the goodies that Auntie Mimi always had on hand.  She rang the doorbell and she could hear footsteps coming toward the door.  Uncle Dick opened the door, greeted her with his big smile and said “Jillian!  How good to see you.  We were wondering how long it would take before your brothers got on your nerves.”  He helped her off with her coat and called down the hall, “Marian, we have company.”  Auntie Mimi’s real name was Marian, but Jillian had trouble saying it when she was very young and it came out “Mimi”.  The name had stuck and now everyone in the family called her Auntie Mimi, except Uncle Dick of course who always called her Marian. 

Auntie Mimi came out of the kitchen wiping her hands on one of the big flowery aprons that she always wore when she was baking. “My goodness child, what perfect timing you have.  I just finished baking a batch of sugar cookies.  Come out to the kitchen and have a glass of milk and some fresh cookies.”  Suddenly Jillian’s day was looking much better. 

The three of them sat at the big round wooden table in the kitchen and chatted while Jillian drank her milk and ate more cookies than she should have; and while her aunt and uncle sipped hot tea.  Finally Uncle Dick asked how things were going with her brothers and she poured out the whole story about Dad’s train and how unfair and unkind her brothers had been.  Her aunt and uncle listened intently, but somehow she felt that they were both having a difficult time keeping the corners of their mouths from turning up in amusement.  Now that she was telling the story it didn’t seem quite so serious anymore.  Her brothers were just being dumb boys. 

When she had finished Uncle Dick rubbed his chin and said “So your brothers won’t let you play with the train eh?”  He looked at his wife, winked and said “Are you thinking what I’m thinking Marian?”  She smiled back at him and said “I believe I am.  Do you know where those boxes are?”  Uncle Dick nodded his head and said “I do, but I think we should all make a trip up to the attic to find them.”

Jillian was puzzled by this interchange between them.  But things began to clear up quickly.  “Jillian” said Auntie Mimi, “I bet you don’t know that Uncle Dick and I had trains when we were children.  Jillian shook her head. “Well, you know that we were born in the same year.  It seems that both of our sets of parents were very excited to welcome a first child into the family.  In anticipation of our first Christmas, before we were even born, our fathers bought train sets.  We still have both sets stored up in the attic.”  Jillian was surprised and excited by this news.  “Would you like to go up and help us hunt for them?” 

The door to the attic was in one of the upstairs bedrooms.  Jillian followed her aunt and uncle upstairs to the door.  Uncle Dick opened the heavy wooden door and flipped a switch just inside the door.  A cold blast of air blew down the stairs from the attic.  Uncle Dick led the way up the stairs, Jillian in the middle, and Auntie Mimi brought up the rear.  The lights along the ceiling lit up the entire attic.  Jillian could see neatly labeled boxes and cartons lining the walls.  There were several pieces of furniture covered with sheets and blankets to protect from dust.  Jillian was surprised at how neat and orderly everything was.  There was a large open space in the middle of the floor that was covered with linoleum. 

“Dick, I think the boxes are just up there beyond Grandma’s chest of drawers.”  Jillian followed her uncle to the spot and there were two very old cardboard boxes with colorful paper labels sitting side by side. Each label read “American Flyer Trains”, and in an area shaped like a shield on the label it said “Electric Trains”, then “Wide Gauge” and a number was stamped on each label. 

Jillian was so excited that she was almost dancing.  “Do you want to help me unpack them?” asked Uncle Dick. “It’s been a few years since we have had them out to run.”  Her aunt and uncle each took a box and slid the top off.  Inside each box were several bundles carefully wrapped in tissue paper.  They handed her bundle after bundle and she unwrapped them with great care.  She was surprised at how large the engine and cars were.  They ran on 3 rail track, but they were much larger than the train around the tree at home.  Eventually there were two trains sitting on the attic floor.  Uncle Dick’s train had a green square looking engine with the #4644 on brass plates on its sides.  It had an orange car that he called a sand car and a red caboose.  Auntie Mimi’s train had the same #4644 engine but it was a passenger set.  There were two coaches that matched the green color of the engine.  One had “America” on its sides and the other car was an observation car that said “Pleasant View” on its sides.  “We always felt lucky that we had a freight and passenger set.  They were purchased from the same store by our parents.” said Auntie Mimi. 

Jillian helped them to unwrap the track and transformer with each set.  She helped them set up two ovals of track in the big open space in the center of the attic.  Jillian knew just how to assemble the track and make the connections between the tracks and transformers because Dad had shown her how to do that on his set at home. 

Before long the tracks were assembled, the transformers hooked up and plugged in and the two trains sitting waiting on the tracks.  Uncle Dick found two low stools that he and Auntie Mimi could sit on.  Jillian was sitting on a rug on the floor.  Her aunt and uncle looked at each other and smiled. “Well what are you waiting for?” asked Auntie Mimi.  “You want me to run them?” said Jillian.  “Of course.” they said in unison.  She slowly turned up the power and both engines sputtered to life pulling their cars along the track.  The three of them sat in the attic playing with the trains for some time.  Jillian heard several stories about when the trains were played with.  She most enjoyed the story of how when they were dating they discovered that they both liked trains. 

When it came time for Jillian to go home she offered to help put everything back in the boxes.  “Nonsense said her aunt. “We’re going to leave them up for a while.  When you feel like running trains and your brothers are not willing to share, you come right over here and run our trains.”  Jillian was thrilled. 

As Jillian was putting on her coat she turned to Auntie Mimi and said “I’m so glad you think girls can play with trains.” A big smile came to her aunt’s face. “I always liked running my train.”  Jillian thought for a moment and said. “Auntie Mimi, I know those trains are very old and they still run so well. They run as good as Dad’s train at home.”  “Of course they do.” said her aunt. “Every so often I go up and oil the engine and do maintenance.  Uncle Dick doesn’t know anything about trains.”

Jillian almost skipped all the way home.  She couldn’t wait to get home and tell her brothers a thing or two.

 

The End

 Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

Wide/Low Profile Blue 4 Car Passenger Sets

Summary

Here is a summary of the previous posts on these sets.

1937

 

Set #1735  Baltimore and Ohio    Passenger

 

 

1938

 

 

No.7  Heavy Duty Passenger Train

 

1939

 

 

No. 307 Passenger Train

Pathfinder

 

 

As I said in one of the previous posts the Wide/Low Profile passenger cars disappear from the 1940 catalog.  I was not entirely accurate in that statement.

 

1940

 

IN 1940 the emphasis of the Gilbert Company is very clear.  Notice the statement under the banner headline.

 

World's Most Complete Line of Scale Model Hot Shots

 

The pages of the catalog proclaim the postive attributes of the new 3/16" Scale Models.

 

There on the left side of the page a Wide/Low Profile car appears.

 

Notice the text.

 

 

 "WRONG"  -  It seems like a sad ending for some fun and colorful cars.  At least it is catalog evidence that the these cars did come with the curly cue couplers.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Nationwidelines]

Congrats on 6 years.

 

NWL

[strainst]

Northwood Flyer

Congratulations on your sixth year anniversary!   With all of the pleasure I have received from the past posting, I look forward to the future postings.  The knowledge contained in these postings on American Flyer trains is second to none!!  Keep up the great work.  I look forward to contributing additional posting as I am getting closer to finishing the construction phase of my train room.  Once that is finished, I will be able to unpack my trains and start to enjoy them again.

strainst

[Northwoods Flyer]

Thanks Ray,

I like to think that this thread has gathered a great deal of information about Pre War American Flyer Trains in one place.  Most of the information is available through other sources, but there have been a few new additions to the knowledge base.  Thanks for the compliment.

Continung the story of the 4 car, blue, Wide/Low profile passenger set.

In 1939 Gilbert begins to make more of its influence known on the American Flyer train line.

The 1939 catalog continues the same type of artwork present in the 1938 catalog.

Inside there is a mixture of Chicago production and New Haven production.  Gilbert definitely puts its mark on the left over production from Chicago by changing most of the numbers for the cataloged items.

 

The 4 car passenger set is still cataloged, but now it is known as the # 307 Passenger Train.

Notice that the black box on the right side says Pathfinder 2-4-4.  I have seen this passenger set called Pathfinder, but I wonder if it refers to the set or if Gilbert was trying to designate the engine as a Pathfinder type.  I haven't seen this set in an original box to see if the name appeared on the label.

 

 

The contents of the set have changed slightly from 1938

 

 

The set is now headed up by #424 Remote Control Locomotive and tender.

 

This is a #423 Type XVI Locomotive (the same engine as in 1938) and #421 Type IV tender (another change in the style of tender) .

 

 

The engine has 423 under the cab windows and A.F. up front on the boiler. I have another #423 that has 423 punched into the area under the window.

 

 

The tender is the relatively common Type IV #421.  It has the deluxe gold step in the front and American Flyer Lines stamped along its side.

 

 

There are 3  newly renumbered  #404B Illuminated Pullmans

 

 

and 1 newly renumbered #405B Illuminated Observation

 

 

All of the cars have blue enameled bodies, silver roofs, Type XII trucks, and Type XI Automatic Link Couplers (the link portion of the coupler is die cast.  My set has several replacement plastic link couplers - illustrating how fragile the early die cast couplers are.

 

 

All four of the cars have Pullman decals in the recessed areas under the windows.  There isn't one intact decal on the entire set.  They all have chips in them or significant losses.  I have noticed that these decals are very difficult to find in original and excellent condition.

 

All four of the cars are lighted and the pick up is different than the 1938 set.

 

 

In order to accomodate the Automatic Couplers the ends of the cars are cut away to allow free movement of the coupler.

 

 

By the following year in 1940 almost all of the Chicago designed Flyer equipment will be gone.  But for at least this year the Wide/Low profile cars have a prominent place

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AF53]

Great job Greg!

This thread has been a real historic look at the early years of American Flyer. I can't imagine any publication that would have as much information as there is right here.

Thanks! 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Ready!

Set!

Six!

 

Five!

 

 

Four!

 

 

Three!

 

 

Two!

 

 

One!

 

 

 

 

Today marks the 6th anniversary of the first posting to this thread.  As I have said before I never imagined when I first offered the invitation to folks to post photos of their Pre War American Flyer equipment that I would still be posting photos and responding to questions and comments six years later.  Its been a great ride.

 

Once again I want to thank Kalmbach for allowing the thread to run this long and for mentioning it in the July 2013 Issue of the magazine.

 

Thanks to all the folks who come and read and post comments and questions, and most of all thanks to those who have posted photos. Every post adds some new piece of knowledge.  If you are just joining us here let me offer my welcome.  I hope you find some enjoyment in reading and viewing the wide variety of information that is available here.

 

So what is ahead?  Who knows!  I know there are still variations to discover and many pieces of equipment that are in the catalogs but haven't made their appearance yet on the thread.  I hope that if you have a question you will ask it.  If you have been thinking about posting a photo please do, even if its a photo of an item already described.  As I said in the very first post, I don't ever grow tired of seeing American Flyer Trains and I think there are others who visit regularly that feel the same way.

 

So our count down was marked by variations of the #206 Danger signal that I have in my collection.  There have been other posting of the #206, and I am sure that there are variations I havn't found yet.  The search is on.

 

I think Mersenne6 referred to these as "The Usual Suspects" in one of his posts.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

[Northwoods Flyer]

In 1938 the transition to Gilbert ownership and production is very evident; starting with the catalog.

The 1937 catalog reused the artwork from an earlier catalog.  It was the kind of catalog that American Flyer fans had come to expect; big and colorful.

 

In 1938 the catalog changed to mainly black and white photos and illustrations with a strong presence of yellow.  Note the prominent "Gilbert" on the cover.

 

 

This was just the introduction to what was contained on the pages inside.

 

Lets take a look at what happened to the Baltimore and Ohio Passenger set from 1937.

 

Its now called the   No. 7   Heavy Duty Passenger Train.

 

It still has 4 cars but many of the details of the set have changed.

 

This set came to me complete, and it was advertised and sold as a set from 1938.

 

The catalog copy says that the engine/tender combination is a 4615-4 (most of the hold over stock from the Chicago era would eventually get a change in stock number).  It is made up of a 4315-4 Type XVI Locomotive with a 3301 Type VI semi-Vanderbilt tender.  This number combination appeared only in the 1938 catalog according to Schweiler in the Greenberg Guide.

 

 

it has 3-#3171B (for Blue) Pullman Cars

 

 

The Pullman cars have "Pullman"  decals in the recessed areas under the windows, Type XII trucks, and Type X couplers - which are known as sheet metal knuckle couplers or "Curley Que" couplers.

 

 

 

 

The set has 1-#3172B Observation car.

 

 

The observation has "American Flyer" decals in the recessed areas and the same Type XII trucks and Type X couplers.

 

 

 

The cars are described in the catalog as having Automatic Couplers.  Gilbert used that term for its link and pin type coupler (they will appear on this set in 1939).  The couplers aren't shown in the catalog illustration but the the couplers on this set are the Type X sheet metal knuckle couplers which according to several sources were used in 1938 and 1939.  The Wide/Low Profile 8 1/4 cars had them in 1938.

 

 

 

 

All four of the cars are lighted and have a sliding shoe for a pick-up.

 

 

A version of this 4 car passenger train will appear one more time in the catalog in 1939.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

The transition from the Coleman period of production in Chicago to Gilbert production in New Haven saw a number of changes in the O gauge line.  I'd like to illustrate some of those changes in the following entries that focus on a 4 car passenger set.  Engines change, tenders change, trucks change and couplers change.

Wide/Low profile cars were first introduced by American Flyer in 1930. In the 1936 catalog four of these cars were matched up with a Type VIII engine and a #3199 tender.

 

The description of the cars states that "Color Subject to Change" .  The illustration uses the silvery surfaced cars that were used in the Century set headed by the Aeoleus engine in 1935.  In the 1936 catalog the 4 car set is called the Baltimore and Ohio passenger set.

 

In 1937 the Baltimore and Ohio passenger set appears in the catalog with blue and silver cars.

 

 

It still has a Type VIII engine but its now paired with a #1620 tender.

 

 

There are 3- #3171 passenger coaches and a #3172 observation.  The cars have type VIIIb trucks

 

 

 

And Type VII couplers

 

 

 

I assembled this set over the course of several years.  I discovered that the cars have two different types of decals at each end of the car sides - "American Flyer" and "Pullman"

 

 

 

The following year in 1938 things begin to change,

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Accessories

220 Station Clock

Back on page 70 there is an entry about the 220 Station Clock that was cataloged for seperate sale from 1930 -1932. It was included in the #240 Equipment Set in 1933 -1934.  At that time I only had the green variation.  I recently was able to aquire the red variation.

It only seemed fitting that I post photos of both variations now during the Christmas season.

 

 

 

Enjoying the world's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

NationWideLines,

Thanks for posting the photos of "Iris' Christmas Train".  I really enjoy it when it is possible to find out the history of the piece or set that you add to a collection.  In my opinion it gives the item just a bit more interest.  It does make me wonder about the stories that are attached to the items that I have in my collection, but will never be known.  It just reinforces the idea that I am only a steward of these toys and that now my history and their history are intertwined.

#3107 the ongoing Investigation.

Here are the sets that were headed up by the #3107 and the #3105.

This is the green Frontenac.  The colors of the engine and the cars match.

 

This is the blue green #3107 with matching cars.  I believe that it is from the 1931 version of The Bluebird.  With a little examination of the box in which the previous owner shipped it to me, I discovered that he thought it was a Bluebird set as well. (At least that is what he had labeled the box.)

 

 

And a photo of the two sets together for a color compaison

 

 

Here is a photo of the Dixie Queen set with the blue #3105 and its matching cars. This set has blue bodies and darker blue roofs.

 

 

The Dixie Queen set has a color variation.  Some of the sets have the same blue #3105 but the cars are more of a violet blue.

 

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Nationwidelines]

strainst

This is really a nice set.  I don't think I have seem the 93 Freight Shed with a yellow roof.  It is very appealing.

strainst

strainst

 

Thanks.  I believe the yellow roof appears only on the earliest stations.  I have seen it before, but I know that it is unusual.

 

NWL

[strainst]

This is really a nice set.  I don't think I have seem the 93 Freight Shed with a yellow roof.  It is very appealing.

strainst

[Nationwidelines]

Here is a #92 Billboard c. 1923

 

 

I find it interesting that the factory address appears to be typed on to the label, as I have not observed that before.

 

NWL

[Nationwidelines]

I know that Northwoods likes to post a Christmas Tale relating to trains, so I thought I would post the following story that I interpreted from a note written by Santa.

 

"Hello Iris.  Did you tell someone you wanted a train?  Santa"

 

The above note was found on the remains of the box top pictured below

 

 

I can only imagine Iris' excitement of finding what appears to be Set 19 under the Christmas tree some 96 years ago in 1917.  Iris must have cherished her train as when I received it last week, it was still in beautiful condition.  Sadly, only the labels from the box remain and tunnel is no longer with the set, but the set is a beauty. 

Here is Iris' set

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can only hope that Iris and her family enjoyed the train for many years and am honored to be the current caretaker.

 

Merry Christmas

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

 As a follow up to the information posted by NationWideLines I am posting the two #3107 engines and the #3105 engine that I have in my collection for a color comparison.

 

The colors in the photos are not as distinct as they are when you view them in person.

 

 

The engine on the top is the #3105 from a boxed Dixie Queen Set. The engine on the bottom left is the blue-green version of the # 3107 that I believe is from the 1931 Bluebird Set, and the #3107 on the bottom right is from what I believe is a Frontenac set.

 

You can see that the two "blue" engines are different is color

 

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods,

 

I believe that the engine you identify as Version A in your post is similar to the one I have below.  This engine is from a boxed Frontenac set.  It is green with a darker green roof.

 

 

I believe that the second engine you show is similar to this engine.  It is more of a blue green body with blue roof.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not positive as to what the name of the set the above engine would have came with but I believe that more than likely it was the New Bluebird/1931 bluebird set.  I have matching cars for both of the engines pictured here.

 

I know that the blue on blue 3105 engine, which is essentially the 3107 without reverse, came in a set known as the Dixie Queen set.  However, I do not have either a boxed New Bluebird/1931 Bluebird set or a boxed Dixie Queen set. 

 

NWL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

NationWideLines,

Thanks for the excellent information on the telegraph poles.    I appreciate the information that you provide to give a better picture of Flyer production and history.

Thanks too for posting the photo of the 240 Equipment set.

 

#3107   An ongoing investigation.

I recently purchased another variation of the #3107.  There have been posts about this engine back on pages 26,27 and 56.  On page 56 there is a discussion about the variation in colors over its 3 years of production.

I brought both of my variations together to compare their colors

 

The color difference is subtle but you can see that the example on the right has a distinctly more blue tint to it.

 

As I compare my examples to the descriptions in the Greenberg Guide I'm not exactly sure which of the variations listed there that I have.

 

This first example is definitely a bright green

 

 

And the roof is only slightly darker than the color of the body of the engine.  It has 4 American Flyer Lines brass tags and a manual reverse with the lever sticking up through a slot in the roof. (It comes closest to the description of Variation A)

 

 

The second example is more of a blue green.

 

 

This example also has a slightly darker shade of paint on the roof.  It has 2 American Flyer Lines brass tags and 2 3107 brass tags.  The manual reverse lever is present in the same place and sticks up through the same slot in the roof.

 

 

The difference in the colors of the engines is very subtle.

 

 

I know that the shades of green vary over the three years that the engine was cataloged.  In checking the catalogs I discovered that the #3107 was included in the New Bluebird Set in 1930 and The Bluebird in 1931. 

 

Do I actually have a #3107 that was part of a Bluebird Set?  Many of the #3107s came in the Frontenac set which was green and had matching green cars.  I have never seen an example of a #3107 that has a darker blue color to it.  I'm more familiar with the deep blue of the lithographed Bluebird sets.

 

I have limited access to examples of this engine.  Does anyone have an example of the #3107 included in a 1930 The New Bluebird or the 1931 The Bluebird?  Better yet, does anyone have a boxed example of the blue #3107 that I could compare for color? 

 

The next post will display and compare the cars that came with each of these engines.

 

The investigation continues........

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods asked that I post pictures of the 240 equipment set.  Please note  my photo is missing the crossing gate, which was missing from my set at the time this was taken.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nationwidelines]

Here are some photos of the telegraph poles in my collection.  First are the 209 A type single arm telegraph poles.  I am showing two different versions of poles, with the one that is missing its insulators having hollow tube type construction and the one with both insulators present being the solid steel wire type construction.  Both poles are 7 3/4 inches tall.

 

 

Next up are the 210 telegraph poles, which were shown in the 1921-1924 catalogs.  Again I am showing two versions, the one missing all insulators features hollow tube pole construction and the one with all insulators present features solid wire type pole construction.  One note is that the one with the hollow tube construction is 10 3/8 inches tall and the one with the solid wire type pole is 10 7/8 inches tall. 

 

 

 

I am guessing that the telegraph poles featuring the hollow tube pole construction are early variations, that for some reason were discontinued.  I base that assumption on the fact that they are uncommon and that the double arm telegraph poles I have observed are all of solid wire type pole construction.  Additionally, I noted that have 18 of the solid wire type 210 telegraph poles, versus 6 of the hollow tube construction 210 telegraph poles.

 

Next up are the 209 B and 219 double arm telegraph poles.  I have shown two variations of double arm telegraph poles that I have, one red and one green.  I am guessing that the green pole is a 209 B version and the red is the 219 version.  My reasoning for this attribution is that the V support braces on the actual arms of the green double arm telegraph pole are very narrow braces and the similar braces on the red telegraph poles are very wide.  Since the single arm 209 and triple arm 210 telegraph poles all have narrow braces for their arms, I attribute the green narrow brace on the arm of the double arm telegraph pole to be the 209 B version and the wider brace red double arm telegraph pole to be the 219 telegraph pole.  These are both 8 3/4 inches tall.

 

One last note about the double arm telegraph poles, they do not have the decorative surround at the base of the poles, like the single and triple arm telegraph poles have.  I noted that the catalog depictions for the 209 double arm telegraph poles in 1927-1930 and also the 219 in 1931-1932 do not have the surround, but it is shown on the 209 telegraph poles for 1921-1926 and the 210 telegraph poles for 1921-1924.

 

 

 

Lastly, here is a shot of the group.

 

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods,

 

What you are calling a 209 B, the double cross arm telegraph pole, is shown in the catalog from 1927 through 1930 as the 209 and then in 1931 and 1932 it is shown as the 219 telegraph pole.  Schuweiler's descriptions of the poles lists the 209 B as being produced from 1927 through 1939; however, the 209 number disappears in 1931 and is replaced by the 219 number with the same artwork as the 209.  The telegraph pole 219 is only cataloged from 1931-1932 and single telegraph poles are not cataloged after 1932, only the 240 Equipment set. 

I did note that the description of the 219 pole, lists it as 7 3/4 inches tall and the telegraph pole in the 240 Equipment Set is listed as being over 10 inches high, so there is some initial difference between the early 219 poles and the ones cataloged in the 240 Equipment Set.

Based on the 209 telegraph poles in my collection, I believe that the red single arm telegraph pole shown in your photo is a 209 B pole that is missing one of its cross arms.  The reason I say this is that the single arm 209 poles in my collection are 7 3/4 inches tall and the double arm 209 telegraph poles in my collection are 9 inches tall.  That being said, I now realize that the catalog descriptions for both the 209 and 219 double arm telegraph poles list them as being 7 3/4 inches tall double arm telegraph poles.  Not sure of the discrepancy in height, but the double arm poles in my collection are all 9 inches tall and the single arm ones 7 3/4 inches tall.

Additionally, the single and triple arm telegraph poles in my collection are painted a medium olive green color and that is the only color I have personally seen the single and triple arm telegraph poles.

One final note about the single and triple arm telegraph poles.  There appear to be two versions of actual posts.  One version in my collection is a rolled sheetmetal tube type post and the other is a solid wire type post.  I noted that all of the double arm telegraph posts in my collection are the solid wire type post, so possibly the earliest posts are the sheetmetal tube type posts, as only the single and triple arm posts were cataloged from 1920 to 1924 and the double arm post did not appear until 1927.  It may be that the first posts were the sheetmetal tube type posts and were discovered to be easily bent with the later posts being a solid wire type that were stronger.

Lastly, it will be great to see you at trainfest.  I am sure you are already on your way.

[Northwoods Flyer]

 

Northwoods,

 

A friend of mine purchased 6 of these telegraph poles with an original box marked 1/2 dozen 219 telegraph poles.  Not sure if possibly they were a late substitution for the earlier double crossarm poles or not, as the 219 telegraph poles were cataloged in 1931-1932

 

NationWideLines,

That sounds like pretty good evidence that these telegraph poles are actually a # 219.  I was using the #240A designation following Schuweiler's suggestion.  The descriptions in the Greenberg guide aren't detailed enough for me to make a good determination.  It wouldn't be the first time that Flyer gave the same number to two different but similar items.

Accessories

209 & 210 Telegraph Poles

Lets take a look at several more telegraph poles that American Flyer cataloged over the years.

Here are two versions of the 209 and a single version of the 210

 

The Greenberg guide lists the 209 (A) as being cataloged from 1920 through 1930.  It has a single cross arm.

 

 

The 209 (B) is listed as being cataloged from 1927 through 1939 and it has a double cross arm.

 

 

 The 210 is listed as being cataloged from 1920 through 1923 and has triple cross arms.

 

 

As I photographed them I noticed some differences.

 

The stampings for the 209 (A) and (B) that make up the cross arms are slightly different.

 

 

while the stampings for the cross arms on the 209 (A) and the 210 are identical, obvioulsy because they are from the same time period

 

 

The red color of the 209 (B) is just a shade darker than the color of the 209 (A)

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods,

 

A friend of mine purchased 6 of these telegraph poles with an original box marked 1/2 dozen 219 telegraph poles.  Not sure if possibly they were a late substitution for the earlier double crossarm poles or not, as the 219 telegraph poles were cataloged in 1931-1932

 

Northwoods Flyer

Accessories

#240 A  Telegraph Pole

This is the #240 A telegraph Pole

 

Flyer cataloged the #240 A  in 1933 and 1934 as a part of the #240 Equipment Set. 

 

As you can see 6 of the telegraph poles came with the set.  Recently I was fortunate to find 6 of the poles in one lot.

 

 

I have a pretty good start on the entire equipment set, but I am still missing a few of the pieces.  I think that NationWideLines has all of the pieces and the box that they originally came in.  I don't remember if he has posted the photos here or on another site.

 

This gives you an idea of their scale in comparison to a Narrow Gauge engine.  I think they were originally designed to go with the Wide Gauge line.

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Darth Santa Fe]

Northwoods Flyer requested that I post my recent American Flyer restoration videos here, so here they are!

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

The #4000 is a pretty simple one to restore, as far as prewar trains go. Something more complex like a steam engine likely would have taken twice as long!

[Northwoods Flyer]

Accessories

#240 A  Telegraph Pole

This is the #240 A telegraph Pole

 

Flyer cataloged the #240 A  in 1933 and 1934 as a part of the #240 Equipment Set. 

 

As you can see 6 of the telegraph poles came with the set.  Recently I was fortunate to find 6 of the poles in one lot.

 

 

I have a pretty good start on the entire equipment set, but I am still missing a few of the pieces.  I think that NationWideLines has all of the pieces and the box that they originally came in.  I don't remember if he has posted the photos here or on another site.

 

This gives you an idea of their scale in comparison to a Narrow Gauge engine.  I think they were originally designed to go with the Wide Gauge line.

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Major]

I have a couple pieces of four rail track that were made with only three ties not the normal four.  I will take a picture and post it later today.

[Northwoods Flyer]

I did a little checking after I posted the information on the whistle track and found the other entry back on page 63.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

These are the pieces of 4 rail whistle track that Nationwidelines is describing above.

 

I'm fairly certain that there is a discussion of this 4 rail track and the 3 rail track mounted on the base earlier on the thread.  I'm not certain exactly where it is on the thread at the moment.

Major,

Did you mean that your track has 3 rails or 3 ties?

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer