NWL
When you said the reverse lever coming out of the top is of a later time period, what period would you put for this locomotive?
strainst
Northwoods Flyer,
I also love this set and have been fortunate enough to have added one to my collection. I do have a question in regards to the above picture. Does the dummy locomotive have steel rimmed wheels or has your locomotive wheel rims been painted white? I also notices that the pictures in the catalog show the first tender as have the gold box on the front of it where the set you have, the set I have and the pictures of the other sets I have captured over the years all have the gold box on the second tender. Have you ever seen one that has the gold box on the first tender?
strains
The wheels on my engine are painted white. I'm not sure if that is original or an addition by a previous owner. I think it looks kind of snazzy though. I have never paid attention to the wheels on any other dummy.
As far as the tenders go; all of the pieces in my Double Header set were purchased individually and I assembled a reasonable representation of the set. I didn't try to match the pictures in the catalog. It would take seeing some original boxed sets whose provenance was pretty clear to determine what was actually in the set as distributed. And as you know sometimes the catalog illustrations are not accurate.
Here are some examples from Google Images
Wow, many of the photos that come up are of my collection.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
strains,
That is a nice 7011 that you have acquired. I have a set that I have put together from two different sources, but it illustrates what NationWideLines in describing in his post.
My 7011 has the track trip activated reverse. I have never seen the version that you have.
Here are the three Illini cars. You will find that the Illini cars have a wide number of variations, but I believe that this is the variation that came with the Montgomery Ward sets.
There are some postings and links about the Montgomery Ward sets back on pages 47 48 and 49. I think there might be others scattered through the thread. I'll have to go looking.
This post deals with a different topic.
I have just received this American Flyer 7011, version C, Montgomery Wards Steeple-Cab locomotive. In Alan R Schuweiler's book, "Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer® Prewar O Gauge," he indicates this uncataloged locomotive came in a special passenger train set. Does anyone know what cars came with this set and what are the color(s) of the cars? This reference guide also says this version of the 7011 Steeple-Cab locomotive is very dark green or black. Mine is a medium green but it does have the rubber stampings and the reverse unit where the handle comes out of the top of the body behind the pantograph. Has this color been seen before? If this topic has been already covered, what pages should I look at? Thanks
Northwoods Flyer In 1939 the Type XX sheet metal locomotive shows up in one of my favorite sets. The Type XX is a dummy.
In 1939 the Type XX sheet metal locomotive shows up in one of my favorite sets.
I also love this set and have been fortunate enough to have added one to my collection. I do have a question in regards to the above picture. Does the dummy locomotive have steel rimmed wheels or has your locomotive wheel rims been painted white? I also notices that the pictures in the catalog show the first tender as have the gold box on the front of it where the set you have, the set I have and the pictures of the other sets I have captured over the years all have the gold box on the second tender. Have you ever seen one that has the gold box on the first tender? I have not added pictures of my sets as it needs a good cleaning and some minor parts to make it complete. Once it is done, I will post my set. I was very lucky to get my set. It was listed on eBay, but the individual who listed it did not know what they had, so they listed in six different lots. I was able to win all six lots and I did not have to pay an arm and leg to get them. It helped that all of the lots ended during the morning on a day in the middle of the week.
Thanks Mersenne6 for the additional posting on the Type XX sheet metal engine. I think its interesting to see how Gilbert made use of designs from both eras of production in 1940. Lets go back to 1939 for a moment. Beside the Double Header set, American Flyer used the Type XX in two entry level sets that year. Both sets appear on page 14 of the 1939 catalog.
1939 Set No. 301 Passenger Train
The set contains the following:
The No. 403 Remote Control Locomotive and Tender
The No. 234R Baggage Car
The No.235 Passenger Car
And The No. 236R Observation
Its a nice looking set and obviously shorter than the passenger set from the year before. 1939 has the sheet metal operating knuckle coupler.
You know what must be coming next.
The Type XX in 1940
The Gilbertization of Flyer continued apace in 1940. For the Type XX engines this meant a change in their consists from cars designed in Chicago to cars designed in New Haven. The locomotive appeared in two sets a passenger set (#4001) and a freight set (#4002). They were basic no-frills sets. For some, they provide an odd sort of appearance but I like them because they highlight the fact of transition and the fact of frugality.
1940 Catalog cut
Set #4001
Set #4002
Addendum for 1937
A page or two back when the discussion about the Type XX first started a picture was posted of the 2-4-0 version with a mechanical whistle. This engine was part of an uncataloged set which collectors identify as "The Blue Streak" because of the name on the sides of the lithographed passenger cars.
Blue Streak 1937
Its on the cover of the 1939 catalog
Following up on the postings from the previous page; here are some photos of both sets from 1938 that feature the Type XX sheet metal steam locomotive. The No.1 Passenger Set and the No. 2 Freight Set
Beautiful set! :)
1938 Set No. 1 Passenger Train
On the same page with the No.2 Freight Train the No.1 Passenger Train is shown.
This set consists of:
It uses the same 4603 Remote Control Locomotive and Tender
1 - 1214 Baggage Car
2 - 1213 Passenger Cars with Lights
1 - 1217 Observation with Light
I think its another excellent use of the Type XX sheet metal steam locomotive; this time paired with the smaller passenger cars. Any child would have been excited to have this set delivering passengers to different towns and stations around the layout.
I agree with NationWideLines; I've noticed that my Type XX engines with the whistle are also very soft. I think that only one of my examples works. I have a sheet metal Hiawatha with the same whistle mechanism in it and it is much easier to hear.
Lets continue with the theme of the Type XX sheet metal steam locomotive.
1938 Set No. 2 Freight Train
The 1938 catalog is a mixture of old Chicago American Flyer and Gilbert American Flyer Equipment.
The Type XX engine which is a carry over from Chicago Flyer production appears in several sets.
This is Set No. 2 Freight Train
The set consists of:
4603 Remote Control Locomotive and Tender
3019 Dump Car
3015 Box Car
3018 Tank Car
3017 Caboose
Flyer made use of the Type XX steam engine for a number of good looking sets.
You are welcome Grizzly Adams. I'm glad you are finding some helpful information here.
Here is another example of the Type XX engine.
This is the engine as it was cataloged in 1938.
Its numbered 4603 (although no number appears on the engine itself) and is painted a gun metal gray.
Thank you Northwoods Flyer. I appreciate the information! I am trying to learn as much as I can about these great old electric trains, and this thread has been very valuable.
Hi Grizzly Adams,
to the thread.
Your engine does look like an example of the 401 from 1940. Its known as a Type XX engine made of sheet metal. It was cataloged from 1934 to 1935 and again from 1937 to 1940. It was used in a number of sets both cataloged and uncataloged. It underwent a number of changes through out its history.
The nickle trim is what gives the clue that your engine is from 1940. American Flyer gave nickel trim to a number of its engines in that year.
Here is my example of the 401 from 1940
And here is an example of the 401 from 1939. You will notice that the trim is either copper or brass.
What I noticed about your engine is that it seems to be a mixture of copper and nickle. The stack on your engine appears to be copper and the rest of the trim is nickle.
Here is a closer look at the top of the 1939 and 1940 version.
The mixture of trims on your engine is an interesting variation.
Very informative thread! Here is my humble contribution. I believe it is a #401 from about 1940. :)
Set 1720-R
Baltimore and Ohio Passenger Set from 1936
Back on page 83 I posted several entries about 4 car Wide/Low Profile passenger sets. At that time I didn't have an example of the set from 1936. Since then I have been able to assemble a set. So here are some photos of the 1936 version.
I'd love to have a set as it is illustrated in the catalog with silver finished cars. I know that the catalog says that the colors may vary but I wonder if this set ever came with the silver cars.
All four cars are lighted and the engine has a headlight and the red fire box light, which you can just see reflecting off the wheels.
The primary unique aspect of this set is that it came with a #3199 tender with the gold box at the front.
Its a fun train to run with the lights off.
Here is the original posting.
The transition from the Coleman period of production in Chicago to Gilbert production in New Haven saw a number of changes in the O gauge line. I'd like to illustrate some of those changes in the following entries that focus on a 4 car passenger set. Engines change, tenders change, trucks change and couplers change.
Wide/Low profile cars were first introduced by American Flyer in 1930. In the 1936 catalog four of these cars were matched up with a Type VIII engine and a #3199 tender.
3019 Large Boxcab
I was poking around in some boxes under the Blueboard Central and I came across this engine. I forgot that I had it, so I decided that it was time to add it to the thread.
The 3019 Large Boxcab is listed in the 1923 and 1924 catalogs.
It is a less expensive version of the 3020 Boxcab.
The obvious difference being that the 3019 lacks front and rear pony trucks.
Some detail photos.
The 3019 was designed to use the auxilary lighting set that made use of a wire to connect to the Illini passenger cars to provide power to the interior lights.
Schuweiler, in the Greenberg guide, lists variations with a black body and maroon windows, this dark green version with red windows, and a brown version with yellow windows.
Northwoods Flyer I based the date of the caboose to the later time frame because the type VIII trucks weren't produced until 1933. I was basing that on the Greenberg Guide that lists the Type VIII truck as being produced from 1933-1938, and the 3017 didn't reappear in the catalog until 1934 after disappearing in 1933. Of course we all know that errors have sneaked into that resource. At least there are two examples that I know of with the green base and red body with Type VIII trucks. Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
I based the date of the caboose to the later time frame because the type VIII trucks weren't produced until 1933. I was basing that on the Greenberg Guide that lists the Type VIII truck as being produced from 1933-1938, and the 3017 didn't reappear in the catalog until 1934 after disappearing in 1933. Of course we all know that errors have sneaked into that resource. At least there are two examples that I know of with the green base and red body with Type VIII trucks.
Northwoods,
My experience is that the Greenberg's guide is not perfect as far as production dates. I recently obtained a 1931 Smoky Mountain set from the original owner's family. I know it was 1931 because of the 3300 engine that came with the set. The tender, log car, and tank car in that set both feature type VIII trucks on them, with the rest of the cars featuring type VII trucks. In fact all of the 3301 tenders I have seen from 1931 (which are unique because they feature gloss black paint in 1931 only) feature the type VIII trucks. So it seems that the type VIII trucks first appeared in 1931 as opposed to 1933. Therefore, your caboose could have been from the earlier period of production.
NationWideLines,
Thanks for the catch on the cupola on the caboose. It does look like a Gilbert era caboose cupola.
Nationwidelines Northwoods, I would guess that your caboose more likely dates to the 1931-1932 era, as opposed to the later era. My experience is that there are fewer paint color variations on the later production items. However, I know that I have a c. 1935 - 1114 caboose with a green roof, so there were some color variations on the later cars too. NWL
I would guess that your caboose more likely dates to the 1931-1932 era, as opposed to the later era. My experience is that there are fewer paint color variations on the later production items. However, I know that I have a c. 1935 - 1114 caboose with a green roof, so there were some color variations on the later cars too.
I would suggest that the cupola and its roof on your caboose are not original to that car. The embossing of the window frames and roof with no ribs, as well as the overall shape of the cupola and roof are different from the Chicago era Flyer cabooses. It almost looks like it might be a roof from a 3/16 Gilbert caboose.
The green frame caboose is an interesting item. It would look really sharp with a green roof, like the following caboose.
3017 Caboose variation
There are several other postings on cabooses and particularly the 3107 here on the thread.
They occur on page 24, 26, and page 61.
On page 61 strainst posted about 2 cars that he had purchased. He posted an interesting variation of the 3017 caboose.
I recently came across a similar version.
Other than the obvious difference that strainst's example has a Lionel latch coupler, they appear to be identical.
The one other difference that may be present is that the cupola and its roof are a lighter red than the body and main roof of the caboose on my example.
The "AFL" and "American Flyer" on both examples are stamped in silver.
The most interesting part of this variation is the green base and the yellow ladders - both of which appear to be original.
Both examples of this variation are stamped "3017" in black on the bottom of the frame.
As far as dating is concerned, the 3017 was cataloged in 1930-1932 and again in 1934-1936. The type VIII truck was used from 1933-1938. My guess is that this variation dates from the 1934-1936 time period. I think we have another variation.
The Frontenac - Set #1322
As a follow up to the previous post on #3107 Midsized Boxcabs I thought I would post photos of two sets.
Frontenac sets appear in the 1930 through 1932 catalogs.
In 1930 it is headed up by a manual reverse 3107 in set 1322 and it is called "The FRONTENAC".
In 1931 it is renamed "FRONTENAC" and is headed by a 3107 with a remote control reverse. This set is numbered 1382. The #1322 set is still cataloged and has the manual reverse, although its description appears in a blue outlined box under the featured #1382 set.
In 1932 the "FRONTENAC" is cataloged again. It is the #1382 with the remote control reverse. The manual reverse set #1322 is no longer listed.
My two sets both are headed by manual reverse #3107. So I assume they are from 1930-1931.
3107 Variations - Update
The 3107 has been featured in posts on this tread a number of times. The most recent post was back on page 82 For an engine that only appeared in the catalog from 1930 through 1932 it certainly has gathered a lot of attention.
In Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge Schuweiler lists 7 variations of this Midsized Box Cab. After a recent purchase I now have 3 of them.
On the bottom left is variation (A); bottom right is variation (B); on top is what I believe is an undocumented variation (making a possible 8th variation.).
All of the variations are very similar to each other. The distinguishing characteristic for Variation (A) is that it has one "3107" plate and one "American Flyer Lines" plate on each side.
Variation (B) has two "American Flyer Plates" per side'
Both of these engines came with matching green cars and make up the Frontenac set.
The variation on the top is distinguished by its blue-green body and darker blue-green roof. It has one "#3107" and one "American Flyer Lines" plate on each side. I believe this is from the 1932 Bluebird set. It has matching blue cars.
Variations (A) and (B) have a manual reverse,which is operated by the lever protruding through the roof in front of the pantograph at the end opposite the headlight. Variations (F) and (G) which Schuweiler describes as being medium blue or darker blue-green have remote reversing. As you can see in the photos my example has a manual reverse lever protruding through the roof like Variations (A) and (B)
Most of the other variations have a remote-control reverse. These have the windows in the end doors punched out to accommodate a reverse lockout lever.
The three examples here have their end windows in the door un-punched.
There is always another variation to look for when collecting American Flyer.
Awesome
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