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Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Tuesday, November 11, 2014 5:52 PM

Here is a neat set I found at a local show on Sunday.  It is "The Merchant" c. 1928-1929 with this one being the variation having the 3185 auto reverse motor.

I am reportedly the proud 3rd owner of this set, as the person who I bought it from told me they bought it from the original owner about 20-25 years ago and the original owner said that the set was not used much.

Anyway, for your viewing pleasure.

One unusual thing I noted about the above boxcar is that it only has a single brake wheel (and associated bracket). This must be some sort of factory error as all of the other early boxcars I have seen from the 1928-1930 era have two brake wheels, which makes it impossible to remove the roof, once the brake wheels and posts are installed.

And the set together.

Overall a very nice set and tough set to find with the original boxes.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Wednesday, October 29, 2014 5:50 PM

Northwoods,

That crossing set with the early building on it is a great find.  I like that version over the one with the later building on it.  Unfortunately, they are much tougher to find and I do not have one with the early building on it.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:31 PM

NationWideLines,

That station clock is beautiful.  I don't think I have ever seen one that pristine.  Nice find.

2004/4004 Crossing Set with Automatic Bell

According to Schuweiler the 4004 was intended to be the version used for Wide Gauge and appeared only in the 1936 catalog.  The 2004 appeared in the catalogs from 1936 through 1938 and was intended for Narrow Gauge. The only real difference was the size of the track section that came with the accessory. Both of the sets were made up of a #214 Watchman's Tower and a #2222 Crossing gate

For years I have had this example in my collection.

This is the version described in the text of Schuweiler's book; with the Watchman's tower in green and white. It is in the listing for the 2004.

The text for for the 4004 does not give the colors but it does have a black and white photo that shows a different house on the Watchman's tower. A close examination shows that it is this variation.

I've been looking for this variation for years and finally came across this one.  In my experience at least, there are far fewer of this version with the orange house available.

Other than the house used on the Watchman's Tower they are identical.

For all of the years that I have had my example I did not know that the crossing gate was made to pivot on the base and could be used in a number of direction. 

1)

2)

3)

There is a third style of lithographed house that Flyer used.  I wonder if there is a Crossing Set with Automatic Bell that has that house on the tower.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 4:48 PM

Northwoods,

I suspect that the 206 danger signs without the American Flyer identification may have been used in department store special sets, where they may not have wanted the American Flyer identifying information on the signs.  The JC Penny Nation Wide Lines sets and other special sets for Wards, etc. likely contained these signs.

Here is another York purchase.  I bought it because the condition was so nice!

There is only a small wear mark from the hands of the clock turning.  This one has already been substituted into my boxed equipment set.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:54 AM

206 Danger Signal   -  Revisited.

The 206 was cataloged from 1920 through 1932.  As we have documented before on the thread there were a variety of color variations during those years. In fact I posted some of them as a greeting for the 6th anniversary of this thread.

Just recently I picked up another variation on eBay and I thought I would share it.

In my observation one of the most common colors is the one in orange.

Schuweiler documents a variation to this color.  It lacks the American Flyer R.R. printed  in the center on the crossbar. I've seen several of these over the years.

The 206 also comes in red.

I just recently came across a red version without the American Flyer R.R. printing.

So there are at least two versions without the manufacturer being identified.  I wonder if these were factory errors or if Flyer sold these to other train manufacturers.

Here is a family shot.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:36 AM

NWL,

You never cease to amaze me. Surprise  You keep finding wonderful variations of the early production of American Flyer. That engine is a real beauty.  Imagine if they had produced more of that particular style.  Your York hunting always pays off.  Thanks for posting.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 1:37 PM

Ray,

The AF windup with trailing truck is very rare and is not even shown in the Greenberg's guide, other than in some wholesaler's catalog artwork that is reproduced in the guide.  

My post on this engine should have included a better description of its design.  Unlike the other early engines, which were all cast iron, this engine features a tin boiler and cab with a cast iron cow catcher and steam chest that are attached to the boiler.

These unusual engines appear to have only been sold with the 5 window "Chicago" cars, which are quite rare themselves.  I have only seen a few of these engines.

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Posted by AF53 on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:22 AM

NWL - Very interesting find! I've never seen an American Flyer clockwork with a trailing truck.

Ray

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, October 20, 2014 4:29 PM

Here is a York acquisition (at least the engine is, I had the tender).  This is a c. 1911-1914 Type IV engine.  Both the engine and tender are uncataloged in that they did not appear in the Flyer catalogs.  However, the engine/tender combination appeared in Butler Brothers and G. Sommers & Co. catalogs in the 1911-1914 era.  There are reportedly two versions of this tender, one of which is shown here on an early 328 type tender frame and the other reported to be on an early 120 type tender without the embossed details normally found on that tender.

The engine is also reported to have variations, with my engine having tin wheels and others having wheels that match the drive wheels.  Both variations are correct.   There is also reported to be a variation that has a battery lit headlight, instead of the fake wooden headlight on mine.  The bell and sand dome are made of wood, but my bell has apparently been replaced with a brass one off of a standard gauge locomotive.  

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Posted by handyandy on Wednesday, October 15, 2014 3:18 PM

As near as I can tell from the Marxtin web site, the wedge tender came out as a four wheel car in 1938, so Marx must have been the copy cat!  LOL

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, October 15, 2014 12:38 PM

handyandy,

That is an interesting observation.  In the Greenberg guide Schuweiler gives the dates of 1930 through 1940 for the Type IV tender being available in the catalog.  The Type V (which is similar) was cataloged from 1931 through 1935.  The Type IV had a relatively long run in the line and went through a number of variations and numbers.  I'm not familiar with the dates of Marx production.  Do you have any idea what years the wedge tender was produced?

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Posted by handyandy on Wednesday, October 15, 2014 11:05 AM

Very cool.

The tender reminds me of the Marx "wedge" tender. I wonder if Marx copied Flyer or the other way around? Or did they each come up with similar designs on their own?

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Posted by AF53 on Tuesday, October 14, 2014 10:53 AM

Back on page 7 Northwoods posted:

"This is the 403 Locomotive/Tender combination.  It has the Type XX locomotive(401) 2-4-4 and a Type IV tender(421).  It has nickel  trim and therefore comes from early in 1940.  It is Gilbert production."

Here is a later 1940 version of the same Locomotive /Tender, as there is no rubber stamp below the cab window.

Ray

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, October 10, 2014 4:01 PM

202 Banjo Signal Variation

The 202 is a relatively easy accessory to find.  And as we have documented elsewhere on the thread it has a number of variations

I recently came across another variation; this one in blue.

I have never seen another banjo signal in blue, but that color does appear on a number of other accessories.  I'm wondering if anyone else has seen the 202 banjo signal in blue?

I realize that it could be a re-paint.  That would be alright with me.  I didn't pay a great amount for it.  If it is an authentic variation it just goes to show that there are still variations in American Flyer production that are still to be found.  As Lou Palumbo says in his column "Views from the Underground" in CTT -    Keep searchin'.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, October 5, 2014 7:51 PM

No examination of the 6 1/2" lithographed sand cars would be complete without including the uncataloged 311131 sand car.  It was available in 1936 and 1937.  I have most often seen it included in the uncataloged sheet metal Hiawatha set.

The number is included on the side, and as you can see it has the cheaper Type X trucks.

As we know nothing is ever simple when collecting American Flyer.  This 8 wheel car comes with either a grey or a red interior.

Oh, and did I mention that it also comes as a 4 wheel car?  I don't have one of those yet.  But I bet someone out there has one that they can post a photo of.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, October 2, 2014 7:14 PM

Northwoods, 

The lithographed end is the end that appears on the cars from c. 1925 (first year of observation car) through approximately 1927.  The cars that I have that are from c. 1928 and on all have the painted ends.  The blue NWL observation also has a blue painted end.

The tail cars from 1922-1924 have two portholes and no observation deck.  

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, October 1, 2014 1:53 PM

Great quiz question NationWideLines.  As long as we are looking at the ends of Illini cars here is another variation.

The Type IV trucks would indicate that the car is from the 1924 - 1927 era I think.

When we get to the observation platform we find not only a punched door on the left, but that door is highlighted with a border and rivets.  There is also a large lithographed window for the passengers to observe the scenery.

Note too that the frame is black.  The variations to Illini cars make them an independent collection in their own right.,

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:09 PM

Northwoods,

Since you spotted it, I will post another photo that makes the difference stand out.

The car at the center is the normal late variation, with the two cars on either side representing the unusual variation.  

Obviously, the door punch out is on the right side on the unusual variations as opposed to the left side on the normal variations.  The odd thing, which is not as apparent in the photos, is that the cars are embossed for the door on the left, but the door is punched on the right, with no embossing.  

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, September 27, 2014 5:20 PM

Nationwidelines

A bit of a sidetrack. 

NWL

Pun intended I hope!   Wink

I spotted the anomaly right away, but I'll let some other folks see if they can spot it..  Who ever pays that much attention to the ends of their cars?  I think we have handyandy to thank for this.  He has us all looking at the ends of our cars for variations.   Thanks AndyLaugh

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, September 27, 2014 1:55 PM

A bit of a sidetrack.  I just noted this car, it is a late lithographed illini car.  What is wrong/different with this car?

Oddly, I have two cars that are just like this, one c. 1928-1929 and one c. 1931-1932.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Friday, September 26, 2014 7:36 AM

Here are 3 variations of Nation Wide Lines cars, which is the store brand of JC Penney's.

This car features the early frame style

Eight Wheel car with later frame type

Finally, a 4 wheel frame.

For some reason, the 4-wheel frame cars seem to be the more difficult version to find.  

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, September 22, 2014 6:43 PM

Here are two of the early 6.5 inch gondolas, one in green and one in red, with the winged loco lithograph.

I have also seen these on the early 4 wheel frames like the previous CB&Q car has, but I do not have any.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, September 22, 2014 6:39 PM

Northwoods,

Here is an odd one.  I am not sure if it truly came on this frame, but this is how I acquired it.  I have seen the earlier gondolas with the winged loco litho on this frame, but not this later body, other than this one of course.

NWL

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, September 21, 2014 9:00 PM

NationWideLines,

Thanks for adding the 4 wheel version.  As I have said, I have very few 4 wheel cars in my collection but these 1113/1116 sand cars are not usually that expensive so I may add them as I find them.

Here is one more variation of the #1116  -  8 wheel car.  It is lettered for the CB&Q and comes in red.

I have it with Type IV trucks

And Type V trucks

Schuweiler lists it as also coming with Type II trucks, so I have that version to look for.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, September 20, 2014 11:37 AM

Northwoods,

Here is a picture of a 4 wheel PRR in orange.  

I know that one does not see these orange cars very often and the 4 wheel ones are not as common for some reason.  

I suspect this car dates to the mid 1920s, but am not sure.

NWL

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Posted by mersenne6 on Thursday, September 18, 2014 9:13 AM

  Yes they do.  In fact you can set up the process so that it prints different colors on the same sheet i.e. the first row of sides is brown, the second row of sides is green, etc.  One result of printing multiple colored sides on the same sheet is that if there is a defect in just one of the rows that defect will only show up in the row with that particular color. 

  One place where I am quite certain this occurred was the Bing litho treatment of their 8 wheel NYNH&H boxcar.  Every medium brown version of this car that I've ever seen (perhaps a dozen or so) has a printing flaw with respect to the left side corner brace.  All of the other colors of this car have the side brace as it should be but on the medium brown it is very indistinct and not printed in a separate color.   It was for this reason that I offered the thought of a possible error in the litho stones earlier in the discussion concerning the shadow detail on the car end.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:12 AM

Do they use the same plates for making different colors of the car? Which would explain my brown and handyandy's red car.

Thanks mersenne6

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Posted by mersenne6 on Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:56 AM

The shading is a function of the way the system is configured for doing the litho printing so if the system is set up for printing multiple copies of the car side on a single sheet of material (the usual procedure) and if the setup is different for, say one row, then the prints for that row will all have the same error but the rest of the sheet will look the way it was supposed to. 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:21 PM

I've taken another look at the brown cars and from what I can see the rivets look the same on both of the cars. I'm not sure why they look different in the photo; it might just be an optical distortion because of the angle I took the photo at.  I wonder if the missing shading occurs in other colors.  I have a vague idea of how lithographic process works.  Is the missing shading going to appear on any color car printed from the lithographic plate?

Another 1116

As I promised in an earlier post I have one more variation of the 8 wheel Pennsylvania sand car - making 5.

It is a light orange

It has the same markings as the green versions.

It has Type IV trucks

I have seen 4 wheel cars in orange, but I don't have one in my collection yet.

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Posted by handyandy on Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:25 PM

Naw, all the rivets on both cars look the same. And the one with the extra shading on the end windows is the one with the trucks made from the worn dies!

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