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Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, September 13, 2015 7:16 PM

Something for your consideration.  A c. 1908 boxed American Flyer set.

 

 
 
 
I guess this one proves that the sets are still out there, as it came out of an estate sale in Iowa last week.
 
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Posted by mersenne6 on Sunday, August 23, 2015 9:28 AM

strainst, the toy manufacturers formed as an association in 1916.  Looking over my boxes with trains whose manufacture date are reasonably well known it appears that Flyer put the logo on the ends of the boxes starting around 1918 and dropped the logo at least by 1927 and perhaps earlier.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, August 20, 2015 3:44 PM

If the weekend of York is bad for you and you are only 2.5 hours away, then I would suggest you take off Thursday and drive down for Thursday only.  The TCA show at the fairgrounds starts at noon on Thursday and ends around 6 for regular mom and pop dealers, with the Orange Hall (manufacturers and large dealers) being open for another hour or so after that.  You could drive home that evening.

One day is really enough and that way, you have your weekend free for your wife and family.

As for approaching the museum about their display, I would rather have my wisdom teeth pulled again, all on the same day while awake!

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Posted by rack776 on Thursday, August 20, 2015 11:50 AM

Thanks for sharing the photos of 4449 I love that engine!,

Has anyone here ever approached the TCA museum about organizing the prewar flyer items on display into proper sets?  I understand how hard it is to nail down an exact date of manufacture for prewar flyer, but I would think the type of couplers on the cars should match each other. I'd be glad to try & help with research on what they actually have on display.  

I'll probebly end up joining the TCA, I figure I could try it for a year and see how it goes.I did not know members could search the back issues of the newsletters on line...that in its self might be worth joining for. I love to read.

I still dont know if I'll ever get to attend York or not, I live about 2.5 hours away near Allentown PA, so getting to York is not a problem......the big issue is the weekend of the big show is always at the same time as my wifes birthday and our wedding anniversary....Tongue Tied   She is very supportive of my hobby and likes the smaller shows near us.......I dont want to eventually turn into "That Guy" the guy who turns every family vacation into a "train watching or toy train trip". The over obsessed guy you see at the train shows dressed up in engineers overalls and a red scarf....and a grumpy looking wife walking far behind him....I hope the TCA does not turn me into "That Guy" LOL!Big Smile

Thanks for the advise on the club

-Jason

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, August 17, 2015 9:26 AM

Jason,

The displays at the TCA museum are disappointing to people who know their pre-war Flyer, especially with the new lighting that shows off some of the extremely poor quality of the items in the cases.

As far as joining the TCA, I guess it depends on how you intend to use your membership.  I am not sure where you are located, but it possibly sounds like the east coast due to your visit to the museum.  If you just joined the TCA and sat back and did nothing else, you might be very disappointed.  However, if you join the TCA and go to York and any local meets, you hopefully should meet up with collectors who share your interests and will be happy to share knowledge with you.

My own experiences are that I had been collecting trains for many years prior to joining the TCA.  I finally joined in 1998 and then attended some of the local events in the Chicago area, but had never attended the York meet.  I finally began going to York in approximately 2005.  It was an overwhelming experience the first couple of times, but as time went on I began meeting fellow pre-war Flyer collectors from all over the country.  I have developed several great friendships out of my TCA membership and just returned from visiting a collector in the Pacific Northwest.  My friend drove me around the area and we visited other collectors and a local railroad museum to see the SP Daylight engine in the midst of a 15 year inspection, so all of the shrouding was removed and the front of the boiler was open.  It was incredible!

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, August 17, 2015 7:27 AM

strainst

New Topic:

Is there a way to roughly date a train set by the label on the side of the box top?  I have a couple of sets in which I have to set box, no label on the box top, and a car or two in the box of which I do not know if they are original to the set.  These sets do have a side label.  Also over which years did American Flyer have the "TOY M'F'RS. USA / AMERICAN TOYS" logo on their train set labels?  Was this related to WWI and the German toy companies? Thanks
strainst

 

 

I know that the end labels on the boxes do provide an indication as to the date of the set, as Flyer did change the labeling on the boxes over time.  The Toy Manufacturer's logo on the boxes did appear at a specific time (which I cannot recall at this moment) and this is one of the ways to assign an approximate date to the box.

It would be helpful to post pictures of the box labeling.

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Posted by strainst on Sunday, August 16, 2015 10:57 AM

Jason, I agree with Greg; try out a TCA membership and see what you think.  I have been to York on several occasion and have really enjoyed the trips. Pre-war American Flyer is a small segment of the overall toy train experience, but you do find quite a bit of it there.  It is great way to meet other individuals who sell pre-war American Flyer and to get additional information these trains.  Most of the guys there will happily talk your ears off about the trains they love so much and you get to see trains there that you only have seen in books.  Being able to look at them and, after asking, handle them can add to your own knowledge in ways that books cannot. The only down side is I only bring the amount of money I can budget for trains and there are always many more trains I would like to buy then I can afford.   And at York, when you first see it especially at the beginning of the show, you need to make the decision to buy it then or take the chance that when you go back later, it could be sold.
 
New Topic:
Is there a way to roughly date a train set by the label on the side of the box top?  I have a couple of sets in which I have to set box, no label on the box top, and a car or two in the box of which I do not know if they are original to the set.  These sets do have a side label.  Also over which years did American Flyer have the "TOY M'F'RS. USA / AMERICAN TOYS" logo on their train set labels?  Was this related to WWI and the German toy companies? Thanks
strainst

 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, August 15, 2015 9:32 AM

Hi Jason,

Welcome to the thread.

I joined TCA about 5 years ago after contemplating joining for a number of years.  I have not been very active in the Division that I belong to, mainly because the meetings are held several hours away from where I live.  I enjoy getting the Quarterly and I know that several of the other collectors of Pre War American Flyer who post here are also members of TCA.  I enjoy the online e-Train magazine that is available.  If my memory serves me correctly, membership allows you to search back copies of the Quarterly online to do research. I have never done that however.

Please remember that collecting Pre War American Flyer equipment is a very small niche of the train collecting hobby.  TCA does an admirable job of keeping a balance between all of the manufacturers.  However their publications are based on the contributions of the members.  So you might expect that there will be more contributions from members who collect other manufacturers and who are willing to write articles.  Some of the folks who have contributed here have also contributed to the TCA publications.

I pay my dues, but I have never been to York (although I hope to one day). I like the publications because they increase my knowledge of the train collecting hobby in general.  My membership has also given me the opportunity to make contact with other Flyer collectors.  

Most of the knowledge I have gained about Flyer has come from the books that have been published, and from personal friendships I have made, as well as the information posted here on this thread.

I started this thread over 7 years ago because I couldn't find an online source that was dedicated to photos of Pre War American Flyer. If you have read some of the thread you will see that it has become more than that. There is a great deal of information gathered here in one spot.  I learn something new with almost every post.  I also enjoy the friendships that I have made with a number of the folks who post here. At one time we had an index of the information here, but with a software upgrade the format changed and the index became of very little use.  I hope to fix that some day, but it seems like a daunting task.  I  hope folks enjoy wandering through the pages as much as I do.

If you have questions about any Flyer equipment post it here; if you have the capability to post a photo, that is always helpful. However, someone who reads and posts here will most likely be able to post a photo of what you have and provide some information.  In most cases we will be able to answer questions.  That has been one of most enjoyable aspects of hosting this thread.  There is a wealth of knowledge available here through the folks who post.  This thread has guided my collecting energies over the years.  I am always looking for an example of some piece of equipment to post here.

Again, let me offer you a welcome.  If you have questions post them here. Try out a TCA membership and see what you think of it. 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

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Posted by rack776 on Thursday, August 13, 2015 10:15 AM

I have been considering joining the TCA to help me with learning more about Prewar Flyer O gauge and also to search for spare parts for my projects, I was wondering if any one here could give an opinion on how helpfull the TCA club would be for prewar O gauge flyer fans.

The reason I ask is I had gone to the TCA museum in Straussburg back in July hoping to do some research in the library and identify some of my prewar flyer items in the museum.

I was very, very disapointed by the lack of identification and general chaos in the display case, I saw a 1939 double header set spread out on 3 different shelves, the 410 dummy locomotive was leading a set of 3/16" o gauge cars, the other double header cars were behind a different 3/16" scale locomotive.

The descriptions of the equipment were vague such as "American Flyer Caboose - c.1930s"   I was shocked as the TCA is usually reguarded as the experts on toy trains, I will say on a positive note that the Lady in the Library was very helpfull with finding me original prewar catalogs to look through.

Has any one here joined the TCA to learn more about Prewar Flyer and regreted spending the $50 on the membership?  Is it mostly a "Lionel Fan Club"? I was kinda bummed that there was only 1/2 of a mixed up display case with some prewar flyer in it.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, August 9, 2015 12:26 PM

Another#206 Variation

The #206 Danger Signal must be one of the accessories with the most variations that American Flyer produced.

We have already documented a number of colors:

And some of the variations that leave off the "American Flyer"

Notice that the bases and the standards on all of these examples are the same color.  I recently came across an example where the base and the standard are of different colors.

So if the red variation

and the green variation

 

got together and had a baby

this is what it would look like. Wink

I wonder how many other varitaions there are out there? The search continues

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Posted by balidas on Wednesday, August 5, 2015 8:28 PM
Recently I was given some American Flyer freight cars. This was the first time I've ever seen any other then pictures. I was impressed! At first I thought they were too big to be O gauge so I set a car on some tracks. Still, these things are huge! And so beautiful! The paint seems more enamel then paint. Almost reminds me of powder coating. I can understand now the appreciation collectors have for them. So very artistic.
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, August 3, 2015 10:06 AM

I have to admit to being a box crazed nut and these are simply classic!

The smaller two are clearly labeled American Flyer and I suspect the larger two, although not labeled American Flyer, will correspond to Flyer numbers if researched a bit more.

 

 
 
I have other Flyer bulb boxes, but they appear to be later boxes and are for either 3 or 6 bulbs, not singles.
 
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Posted by balidas on Sunday, August 2, 2015 7:03 PM

vintageflyer

Search the web for prewar American Flyer parts suppliers. Check their sites carefully, remember there are several tab and slot types. Early ones have a "T" slot. I think some are out there.

 

 

 

I have been & I haven't seen anything that matches yet. The tabs on these cars have notches on each side towards the bottom. I'll post a pic soon.

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Posted by balidas on Sunday, August 2, 2015 7:00 PM

Nationwidelines

I am not sure anyone is making that part at this time.  You might be better off buying a junker and getting parts that way.

 

 

I have those thoughts also, I just haven't seen anything mangled enough yet I'd classify as a junker.

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Posted by vintageflyer on Friday, July 31, 2015 4:50 PM

Search the web for prewar American Flyer parts suppliers. Check their sites carefully, remember there are several tab and slot types. Early ones have a "T" slot. I think some are out there.

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, July 30, 2015 6:58 PM

I am not sure anyone is making that part at this time.  You might be better off buying a junker and getting parts that way.

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Posted by balidas on Thursday, July 30, 2015 2:49 PM
Hi. Does anybody supply replacement tab & slot couplers? I have a few AF O gauge that have the tab broken off but haven't yet found anybody who supplies them. Thanks.
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, July 12, 2015 8:36 PM

Picture of 4th Rail Jumper Wire an envelope

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, July 12, 2015 8:17 PM

Northwoods,

Since you brought up the subject of track, here is an oddity.  It is the remains of what I believe is a 1914 Switch.

 
Note it says "American Flyer" and "08"
 
I have never seen another switch marked American Flyer like this.  My thoughts on the reason for the 08 marking is that the 1914 era is approximately when Flyer was switching over from 6 curves making a complete circle to 8 curves making the complete circle and the 08 designated how many curves were required for the circle.  I know I have seen german track curves marked 6 and 8 before. 
 
As for the history of these parts, they came to me with a 1914 setbox, as evidenced by the paper applied top label that has the Kinzie Street address and a paper end label, also with the Kinzie Street address.  The box is marked 13, which is a set that included 2 switches.
 
Here are some additional photos of the parts, shown with other early Flyer switches, as evidenced by the manner that the single ties at the ends are connected/formed.
 
1914 Remains
 
 
Remains with slightly later complete switch
 
 
Switch lever with slightly later switch
 
 
Remains of slightly later double track switch lever and 1914 switch lever
 
 
 
Wondering if Mersenne6 has seen any early switches marked like these remains?
 
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, July 12, 2015 8:03 PM

Northwoods,

The pickup for the whistle power, which is a Y shaped pickup, is designed only to touch the 4th rail and no other rails.  It would short out if it touched another rail.  As for it being Y shaped, that is so you could put the train on the track in either direction and it would always make contact with the 4th rail. 

The reason that the 4 rail track was discontinued was that Lionel sued American Flyer for copyright infringement (and won), which resulted in American Flyer having to discontinue their whistle in tender (or other cars).  After discontinuing the whistle in tender, Flyer brought out the 2029 Whistle Billboard in 1937. 

I believe that the 3 rail track on fibre board is rarer than the 4 rail track.  From what I can gather (based on the catalog description and seeing boxed sets from 1936) the 3 rail track on fiber board was only a separate sale item and was not included in any sets. 

Another item that should be noted in addition to the 4 rail track is the Jumper Wire for the 4 rail track, which is a wire designed to connect the 4 rail between accessory track sections, so that the 4th rail does not lose power. 

I will have to dig up a photo of the envelope for the Jumper Wire.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, July 12, 2015 3:28 PM

American Flyer Whistle and Non Whistle Track on masonite base

We have documented this track somewhere back on the thread, but so far I haven't found the pages that the discussion is on.  

This is the well known 4 rail track that Flyer used to operate the whistles that they placed in tenders for the Hudson and Hiawatha and in various cars in other streamlined trains like the Zephyer and the Union Pacific.

There were 4 different tracks:  full size straight and curve and 1/2 straight and curve.

The track didn't last long, and for one year they produced a very curious 3 rail track on a masonite base.  It isn't shown in the catalog, but it is described.

I recently came across a few pieces of the 3 rail version. Here is a side by side comparison.

As I was taking the photos it looked as if that each curve track was of a different radius.  But its an optical illusion.

Has anyone ever set up the 4 rail track and run a tender with a whistle? I have enought track to set up a good size oval, but I have never used it because until recently I didn't have a tender that still had its whistle in it.  I now have one and I placed it on the 4 rail track to see how it fit on the track.  The special foot that is supposed to ride the 4th rail in the whistle track and one of the other three rails doesn't seem to fit on the rails as it should.  I'm wondering if that may be another reason why the 4 rail whistle track was discontiued.  Any thoughts?

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, June 20, 2015 1:08 PM

vintageflyer

Not to change the current subject which is always interesting to me, but can someone please explain or post instructions for a 457 loco control switch? I have seen them and I will confess that I am baffled by them. Thank you again for this great forum!

 

 

vitageflyer

I have one of those 457s floating around in my parts box. I've done some research and I don't know what they were used for either. I hope someone can enlighten us both.

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Posted by ElGaucho on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 10:27 AM

Hi Mersenne6,

Thanks for the catalog repost! But yes, unfortunately it's not clearer. You'd have to re-scan the original page at a nice high resolution.

Thanks though!

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Posted by mersenne6 on Monday, June 15, 2015 7:01 PM

Per the request for a larger version of the #7 catalog cut - let's see if this is any better

....nope - guess not.

 

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Posted by vintageflyer on Sunday, June 14, 2015 9:21 AM

Not to change the current subject which is always interesting to me, but can someone please explain or post instructions for a 457 loco control switch? I have seen them and I will confess that I am baffled by them. Thank you again for this great forum!

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, June 13, 2015 3:23 PM

The base that is taller and more rounded (hump shaped) is the late base from around 1936 and after.  Not sure how early it appeared.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, June 13, 2015 12:32 PM

Signal Variations

I recently picked up 2 variations of Flyer's Wide Gauge trackside accessories. I am always amazed at the variety of items that Flyer produced with just a few simple changes.  If you are a collector of variations these signals provide quite a few variations and they are not break the bank expensive.

I have a number of variations of the #202 Banjo signal.

All of them are lacking the wire rod that activates the signal.

Technically the banjo signal with the activating rod is the #222.

The only difference is that activating rod.  The #202 is obviously mounted on the same standard.

The other accessory that I added was a variation of the #207 Single Arm Semaphore.

I have had this variation for a while.

I recently picked up this variation with a wire activating rod.

I haven't come across any documentation of these variations, but I may not have looked hard enough.

So the differences include:

1.  different semaphore blades

2.  activation rod

3.  different bases.

I know that NationWideLines has documented the years that each of the bases appeared but I didn't go back to check the dates. 

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Posted by mersenne6 on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 12:41 PM

  It looks like that would be me over on page 48.  Unfortunately that is a dealer price sheet so the image quality isn't the best.  I'll see if I can't boost the image size and repost with a larger image.  Is there anything in particular you wanted to know about the engine? 

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Posted by ElGaucho on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 9:33 AM
Hi! Thanks Northwoods for the info! I just realized that my response didn't reply to a specific message on this thread. The catalog page I was requesting was for the fellow with the Empire Express "7" post. The green/orange tinplate boxcab locomotive photo w/catalog image (*I dont remember the page number. There's so many replies to this topic!Ha!)
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 6:23 AM

ElGaucho,

Welcome to the thread!  Welcome  I'm not sure what train or catalog page you are referring to.  When you reply to a post it doesn't automatically quote the post.  If you can tell us the page you were on in the thread, or the engine/train you were referring to, or the page of the catalog that was posted we can probably provide you with more information.

Its good to have another collector with us.  Big Smile

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