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Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, November 15, 2015 9:46 AM

American Flyer Narrow Gauge

The New Bluebird 1930 Set #1382      (1931 - 1932 the same set is  known as The Blue Bird)

One variation of the lithographed version of The Bluebird is posted several entries back.

In 1930 Flyer recycled the name in The New Bluebird

It is an enameled version that pretty much uses the same engine and cars as The Frontenac.

In the 1931 and 1932 catalogs it becomes The Bluebird. (I guess with time its loses its "new" status.) The set came with a number of accessories, making for great play value.  This is the catalog page from 1927 showing the accessories included with the lithographed set.

I haven't seen very many examples of this set.

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Posted by ds521 on Friday, November 13, 2015 10:12 AM
Thank you so much! Looking forward to the rest of your response!
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, November 12, 2015 9:04 PM

ds521,

Welcome to the thread.  We are glad you found us. We will do our best to give you some information.

First of all, the C6-C8 that you asked about is part of the grading standards established for toy trains by the Train Collectors Association.

Here is a copy of the standards;

C-10 MINT - Brand New all original, unused and unblemished. 
C-9 FACTORY NEW - Brand New all original, unused, may evidence factory rubs and the slightest evidence of handling, shipping and having been test run at the factory. 
C-8 LIKE NEW - Complete all original, no rust, no missing parts, may show effects of being on display and/or age, may have been run. 
C-7 EXCELLENT - all original minute scratches and paint nicks, no rust and no missing parts. No distortion of component parts. 
C-6 VERY GOOD - Minor scratches and paint nicks, minor spots of surface rust, free of dents. May have minor parts replaced. 
C-5 GOOD - Sign of play wear with scratches and minor paint loss. Small dents, minor surface rust. Evidence of heavy use. 
C-4 FAIR - Scratched, moderate paint loss, dented missing parts, surface rust. Evidence of heavy use. 
C-3 POOR - Requires major body repair. Heavily scratched, major rust and missing parts. Restoration candidate. 
C-2  - Restoration required. 
C-1  - Junk, parts value only.

This link will take you to a more detailed article about the grading standards on the TCA site:

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/2810463/reply.aspx

 

When I was at my office earlier today I could see the photos that you posted.  For some reason here at home I can't bring them up.  I can do a little work from your list, but I'm going to have to take a better look at the  photos back at my office.

First of all I don't think that you have a cataloged set of American Flyer equipment. I think you have a collection of AF that a family or a collector has gathered together.  

Lets start with the engine. The 4670 cast iron engine was cataloged from 1931 through 1932. There are four variations of this engine.  When I can see the photos again I think I can identify which one it is.  It should have a 4671 coal tender - which you are missing.

The two passenger cars; the 4331 Pullman and the 4332 Observation were featured in the catalogs from 1931 through 1936.  There are several variations of these cars. 

I will have to do some more research, but this is at least a start on your trains and accessories.

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Posted by tinplatacis on Thursday, November 12, 2015 2:57 PM

Don't clean it up!

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Posted by ds521 on Thursday, November 12, 2015 2:29 PM

Hi all- 

New subsriber here. I have been given an American Flyer Line wide gauge set and I am looking for information on what I have. I have been doing some research and found this forum! You guys definitley know what youre talking about so I would like to post some pictures here for you to help me out. Wondering about the condition, as well as the year.  List I have reads that the grade is C6-C8, what does that mean? Also, I know there is some updating that might need to be done to the set. 

I am not sure yet if I am going to keep the set or pass it on. 

Here is a list of what I have: 

  • Tracks Wide Gauge- 8 curved, 12 straight
  • 4670  Steam Engine- original box- one front wheel needs to be reattached
  • 4331 Pullman Red - original box
  • 4332 Pullman Red -original box
  • 4017 Gondolla Green- open style- orignial box
  • 4021 Caboose Red- orignial box
  • Flyer Town Freight Station
  • 42" Trussel Bridge- AFL plate, San Francisico -817M, Denver- 815M, wood and metal tracks mounted inside
  • 2 double street lamps- one lamp needs to be adjusted 
  • 1 signal light pole
  • 1295 Transformer with original box
  • 1275 A.C. Circuit Breaker

I would love to hear your thougths and advice on the set. 

Thanks, hope you guys can help me out! Also, please forgive me for not cleaning it up before taking the photos.

ds

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Posted by tinplatacis on Saturday, November 7, 2015 6:11 AM

Northwoods Flyer

Check out this link, it has some great information on the 750

http://traindr.com/american-flyer-trestle-bridge-750/

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Thank you all for the information, I suspect I now know it's year of manufactur. Now, how did a 1953 bridge end up on a 1959 Lionel layout? (Or did it?)

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, November 6, 2015 7:54 PM

Check out this link, it has some great information on the 750

http://thegilbertgallery.org/Accessory%20Gallery/accessories_bridges2.html

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Posted by tinplatacis on Friday, November 6, 2015 7:50 PM

That is my bridge, based on the postwar usage, I would say it is the 750 version.

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Posted by vintageflyer on Friday, November 6, 2015 6:40 PM

 photo image.jpg3_zpsj5khzjhx.jpg

These photos are from the 1941 Am Flyer catalog.

The first showing a close shot of the 611 bridge which appears to be indentical to the postwar 750 bridge. My fascination with this bridge is that it appears to have angled pieces attached to hold the track in place, I assume.

Has anyone ever seen one with these attachments? Or maybe a boxed bridge with #611 stamped on the box?

The next two photos are of two pages showing some if not all of the O gauge accessories. (the HO accessories are on other pages)

Good information is in the catalogs, if you read the fine print. 

 photo image.jpg1_zpszouiaqnm.jpg

 photo image.jpg2_zpsuxtoll0h.jpg

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Friday, November 6, 2015 11:18 AM

That certainly sounds like a Gilbert Era Flyer bridge.  I am not sure if it was produced prewar (it certainly could have been), but it does sound like one of the items that was produced in the postwar era.  If it was produced in the prewar era, I suspect it would have been a late production c. 1940-1941 item.

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Posted by tinplatacis on Friday, November 6, 2015 10:44 AM

I know that a lot of y'all are prewar AF junkies, and that some of Gilbert's prewar accessories carried over into the postwar period. Was a bridge, stamped steel, bluish-grey painted, with a yellow lighted shack one of these? It was my great grandfathers, I believe he acquired it in the mid to late 1950's.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, November 5, 2015 7:45 PM

Something a bit earlier.  A seldom seen 1104 c. 1915-1916?????  The 1914 catalog does not show a 4 wheel 6.5 inch baggage car with the 4 wheel 6.5 inch Parlor Car, but the c. 1916 catalog does show one, but in a low quality drawing with no color indications.

This is only the 2nd car like this that I have observed.  Both 1104 cars that I have seen like this, have come with 1103 Parlor Cars. 

 
 
NWL
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:37 AM

The Mack's Junction water tower has always intrigued me. I haven't found an affordable one yet however. The passenger platform with the same marking is also very interesting.  Don't you wish sometimes that the pieces in your collection could talk and tell their story?

The Frontenac

The Frontenac appeared in catalogs from 1930 through 1932.  In 1930 and 1931 it was set #1322, and in 1932 it was set #1382 (the #3107 engine had a remote control reverse according to the catalog description that year).

 

In the photo below the 3107 has two different sets of brass identification tags. One has 4 American Flyer Lines tags and the other has one American Flyer Lines and one 3107 tag on each side.

 

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, November 2, 2015 10:05 PM

Never seen or heard of the Mack's Junction on anything other than the water tower.  No idea as to how it was sold.  Missed the one on ebay.

I believe the owner of this one said he had acquired it from a friend.

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Posted by vintageflyer on Monday, November 2, 2015 9:14 PM

Followed one of these on Ebay a few months ago. The decal made it very valuable. Could be the same one? Curious how it was originally packaged/sold. Was it a Montgomery Ward item like the water tower? Or a different stores special? 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, November 2, 2015 4:28 PM

Here is something that was seen at York.  It is probably a one-of-a-kind item.  Note the "Mack's Junction" decal on the base.

 
Sadly, the owner would not sell it to me.  I guess I cannot blame him as it is a fantastic item.
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, November 1, 2015 9:18 AM

The Iron Duke        

1931   Set #1323    American Flyer   Narrow Gauge

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, October 24, 2015 8:59 AM

1926 American Flyer O Gauge  

Lets jump back to the 1926 catalog for the next entry

This is set #1820    "The Broadway Limited.

It is one of the few boxed sets that I own.  I got it through a Loyd Ralston auction many years ago, before I turned my collecting attention to Pre War American Flyer. It was back in the days before online auction sites when you had to order a catalog with one small photograph of the items in a lot.

I was fascinated by it for some reason; probably because of the Milwaukee Road association.  I put in what I thought was a very low bid and ended up winning it.  In the years since I have come to realize that this must have been one of the most common sets that Flyer made and sold.  I see these cars for sale all of the time.

This is the more common later baggage car that has the Milwaukee Road herald in the correct position.  I have the earlier version somewhere too that has the herald standing upright instead of tilted.

It runs great.  It has the tendecy to go at top speed all the time, even when pulling the 3 cars. I've had to be careful when running it or we suffer derailments on curves.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:44 PM

vintageflyer,

Thanks for the photos of the sets.  I think the black roofs look very nice on these cars.  I will have to keep my eye open for them.

We've been covering quite a few of the electric sets from the 1927 catalog.  I'm not sure if it is my favorite catalog, but the variety and color of the equipment certainly put it near the top of my list of favorites.  

This is the front cover of the 1927 catalog.

Notice the rainbow theme.  The colorful equipment and sets live up to the advertisement.

And the back cover.

There are photos of the Narrow Gauge sets in the posts above.  This is one of my favorite pages, its page 9

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Posted by vintageflyer on Sunday, October 18, 2015 9:39 PM

Here are the "Broadway Limited" and "Pennsylvania" sets from my collection.

When I aquired this "Broadway Limited" set. The seller expressed to me that he believed that the black roof version was from 1926.

The "Pennsylvania" cars have "disappearing couplers" (Flyers term). These are the "T" slotted couplers which are mounted to a slot in the floor instead of a hole, which allows them to disappear.

I have repainted the roofs on the Pennsy set. which were black, but in very poor condition. Also the baggage car in this Pennsy set has the slotted couplers which are attached by rivets, showing it is not original to the set.

I am interested in any other information anyone else can offer about these sets.

   

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Monday, October 12, 2015 10:00 PM

Thanks mersenne,

I remember your original post.  Its where I learned that there were two versions of this set in 1927. I now own both versions of the set too.

1927 American Flyer O Gauge  

 

The Jeffersonian    Set #1306

 

Long Frame

Short Frame

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Posted by mersenne6 on Monday, October 12, 2015 8:09 PM

...and here's the set pictured below the Bluebird...the Jeffersonian ...at least the 1927 version that most closely resembles the catalog cut.

 

For whatever reason that year Flyer made several within year changes to the set. Below is one of those variations - note the longer locomotive frame and the air tanks underneath the passenger cars.

 

As before, these pictures have appeared in earlier posts to this thread.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:44 PM

mersenne6,

It didn't take you long to figure out my strategy. Wink Its nice to hear from you again.

You did a great job of filling out the page from the 1927 catalog.  I have the engines for both of those sets, but not the cars.....yet.

So here is another page from 1927:

I've already posted the 1927 Oriental Limited set with the red lithographed windows.   Set #

Moving on, here is The Bluebird  Set #1225

American Flyer Narrow Gauge    1927-1929

The Bluebird

There is a longer post somewhere that details the changes in the Bluebird from 1927 through 1929.  But these posts are just to group as many sets together as possible.  So here is a representation of the Bluebird from those years.  Photos of acurate sets are always welcome.

It was pulled by the 3013 and the 3113, depending on the year.

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Posted by mersenne6 on Sunday, October 11, 2015 5:10 PM

  I've already added these pictures to the thread but since it looks like Northwoods is trying to put as many sets as possible together in a continuous run of posts - I'll help fill out the rest of the 1927 catalog page he illustrated in his earlier post.

Catalog Page

Set #1102 The Suburban

Set #1202 The Interstate Limited

 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, October 11, 2015 11:35 AM

Hi vintageflyer,

Thanks for the comments about the variations to this set.  Please post some photos of the sets if you have them.  I have seen pieces of both the black roofed sets, but so far I haven't come across a whole set of matched cars.

I added some photos of the individual components of the Broadway Limited to the post above.

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Posted by vintageflyer on Sunday, October 11, 2015 8:06 AM

This is one of my favorite litho sets, as it simulates a real train. Pretty impressive to kids of the time.  I have two other versions. One with black roofs and another black roof version with the "Pennsylvania" lettering but no "Broadway Limited" lettering. Nice pics. 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, October 11, 2015 7:12 AM

American Flyer Narrow Gauge   1927   

The Broadway Limited

Broadway Limited 1927

Broadway Limited Catalog cut

 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:43 PM

1927 American Flyer Narrow Gauge   

  "The Oriental Limited"

"The Commander" has a little brother.

 

1927 Oriental Limited

1927 Catalog cut  The Oriental Limited

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:07 AM

I have posted photos of American Flyer sets that I have in my collection on another site.  I decided to start adding them to this one as well.  I am pretty sure that I haven't posted these here before.

 

1927 American Flyer Wide Gauge  

 

"The Commander"

 1927 Commander OGH

 

 

 

1927 Catalog  The Commander  OGH

 

 

 

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Posted by rack776 on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 5:29 PM

WOW! That is really neat to see..... looks to be in really good shape....That engine from 1908 is in way better shape than some of my postwar trains from the 1950s

I always love to see old toy trains from the early days of railroading.

I'm so used to thinking of steam locomotives as part of our history or our past that its easy to forget when that little model train was made it was based on what was a "modern" locomotive at the time.

I dont think a 2015 MTH model of a SD40 Diesel will have the same charm in 100+ years as that Flyer set has. Thanks for sharing the photos,  Great Find!

-JasonBig Smile

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