Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

[Northwoods Flyer]

Heymrd1313,

Welcome to the forum and to this thread.    Thanks for posting the photo of your baggage car.  I have a number of the 1220 series cars in both colors. However, I am on the hunt for one of the baggage cars to add to my collection.

I am very impressed with the photos of your layout.  What can you tell me about it?  It looks like it is on outdoor layout.  Or is that a backdrop that makes it looks that way?

Thanks again for posting, and please post more photos.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

[Nationwidelines]

Bob D

My studies and experience have shown that the 3300 cars with cast tanks and window shades were only cataloged with the steam engines.  Of course that doesn't preclude what Flyer may have put together when clearing out stock.  

Regards,  Bob D 

 

 

Bob,

I am not sure about the validity of your statement, but I would certainly say that the cast iron air tanks are more often found with the steam engines.  This would be due to the fact that the 3117/3187 engines were discontinued prior to the cars themselves and that the production features of the cars changed over the years to have the cast iron air tanks and shaded windows on the later production cars only. 

I have a c. 1930 Man o War set

Which has a steam engine, but no window shades or cast iron air tanks.

I also have a late c. 1932 3187 engine that has the bell ringing motor from the 1932 steam engines and it has the cast iron air tanks, brass plates with American Flyer, Jeffersonian, and Golden State, and window shades. 

So, I although your statement has some truth to it, I would not say it is a fact that one should rely on.

The only rule I know of for the steam engine sets, would apply to early sets only, is that the cars have American Flyer plates above the windows in the early steam sets and sets with the electric engines have Ambassador plates above the windows.  This however, changes when Flyer starts to use up the old stock of plates and eventually change to decals instead of brass plates.

The other thing I have not observed and cannot say for certain, is that I have never seen a set with a 3117/3187 engine that has cars with decals.  Again, that is likely a production factor, as I think they phased out the 3117/3187 prior to switching to the decaled cars.

NWL

[Bob D]

Hello Northwoods Flyer,

I am new to this site and was attracted to your correspondence on the Flyer 3300 series passenger cars.  I have been a collector for about 40 years and have always been especially fond of Chicago American Flyer and Ives and I have put much effort into learning all I could about the sets and individual pieces that I have collected over the years.  I have passed soem of that knowledge on in articles I occasionally write for the TCA.  I was also a reviewer for Greenberg on his first prewar American Flyer books.  I know we all have different approaches to our collectiing, mine is to assemble proper sets.  With Flyer that can sometimes be a challenge.  At any rate I assume from the discussions that you have been having about the 3300 cars that you are at this time trying to assemble the cars into attractive sets using only the Ambassador electic type engine and not the steam engines that the cars pictured would ordinarily  go with.  My studies and experience have shown that the 3300 cars with cast tanks and window shades were only cataloged with the steam engines.  Of course that doesn't preclude what Flyer may have put together when clearing out stock.  We all have things we  like to do with our old trains and I am raeally greatful to have found this thread wth your wonderful photos and discussions. Hopefully in the future I will be able to attach photos.

Regards,  Bob D 

 

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods Flyer

 

And some side by side comparisons.

 

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

Northwoods,

I guess I had not paid attention to the photos of your two red engines.  I note the one you recently got has the 3116 plates on it instead of the 3117 plates.  I believe that your recent purchase is a repainted 3116.  I base this not only on the incorrect plates, but also on the fact that your engine does not have the correct frame (cow catchers with flag holders) for the 3117.  I think there is a 3117 pictured in the Greenberg's guide with a short frame, but that frame is painted tan for the 3116 and I know where that engine is, so I suspect that your engine is a repaint.

See You on Saturday!

NWL

[Heymrd1313]

Found this other pic to share.        

[Heymrd1313]

I use this AF 1122 with my other passenger cars.

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods Flyer

 

I'd like to believe that all of this (cars and engine) is factory original; being assembled at the end of produciton of the 3380 cars and using up bodies, tags and paint that they had on hand.  What is your oppinion of the 3116 NationWideLines?

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

Northwoods,

 

The handrails are original and simply a variation from your other engines.  However, the variation of handrails that you have is an early version and would appear on the earlier versions of the St. Paul engine cabs.  Therefore, I suspect your set is not matched for all being late production.

 

NWL

[mersenne6]

My Man O' War set with the odd 3180/3189 engine/tender combination has the same issue as far as the cars are concerned:

Pullman:

Box and rubber stamp on the underside of the car say 3381

Brass plates say American Flyer and Pullman 3281

Letter board brass plate is Jeffersonian

 

Club Car

Box and rubber stamp say 3380

Brass plates say club car 3180

Letterboard brass plate says American Flyer Lines

 

Observation

Box and rubber stamp say 3382

Brass plates say 3282 Obs and American Flyer

Letter board brass plate says American Flyer Lines

[Northwoods Flyer]

NationWideLines,

Thanks for your reply and the information.  I went back and compared the roofs on the cars to the other sets that I have and I have to say that if they are repaints they are pretty good ones.  So now all I have to do is find another 3381 with Jeffersonian plates and I can have a 4 car passenger train with all of the cars tagged differently.  Ahhh, something more to look for.

I purchased a red 3116 from the same source.

 

 It is a bit of a puzzle too.  The easiest answer that it is a repaint.  If it is, the workmanship is close to what I would expect from the factory.  I dug out my 3116 from the Potomac set and the 3117 from the other Ambassador set that I have for some comparisons.

These are the handrails and frames for the 3117 and the 3116.

These are the handrails on my suspect 3116

And some side by side comparisons.

The color of the red 3116 and the 3117 is identical.

I'd like to believe that all of this (cars and engine) is factory original; being assembled at the end of produciton of the 3380 cars and using up bodies, tags and paint that they had on hand.  What is your oppinion of the 3116 NationWideLines?

The engine and cars make a nice looking set. And the engine runs very well.  It runs fast and pulls those three cars as if they are light weight.

Now I will be on the lookout for the Jeffersonian car, and I can start looking for the cars with the red air tanks.  The search never ends. 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods,

Those cars could be all original with the exception of the repainted roofs that you mention.  I have a later set like that and I know it has American Flyer, Jeffersonian, and Golden State plates above the windows on the cars.  Yours with the Ambassador plate is the one that I have a Jeffersonian plate on, but that could be simply what was installed at the factory on your car.  I know that mine also have the wrong number plates on the sides and the correct number plate rubberstamped on the bottoms of the air tanks. 

Not sure if mixed trucks would have came on the cars, but I believe somewhere I have a car that came from the factory with mixed trucks on it.  So I would not necessarily discount that either. 

Those are nice cars and I have a number of variations of them. 

NWL

[Northwoods Flyer]

As a person born with a "collector gene" I quickly realized that if I didn't narrow my collecting energies to just a few areas I would be overwhelmed with stuff.  I decided to focus on American Flyer Trains. As I look at the number of things in my collection it certainly seems that there isn't much of a limit to my collecting energies.  I have occasionally worried that I would run out of things to collect.  Well, collecting American Flyer Trains has always provided me with a reason to be on the hunt, and I frequently find some new variation that I don't have or that I didn't know existed. 

Recently I picked up a set of 3300 passenger cars, sometimes referred to as "Ambassador Cars".  I already have two sets of these cars - one that has plates that say Ambassador and one that has American Flyer Lines plates.  I know that as these cars were produced over the years there were many changes.  There is a great article in the TCA Quarterly that shows the variation in sets that were in the catalogs.  This set comes from late in its production.  I purchsed it knowing that there has been some restortion done and because of that I think that some of the variations that it contains may be suspect.  To be honest they were just too pretty to pass up.

This is the club car.  It is cataloged as #3380.

This one has two 3280 plates and an American Flyer Lines plate above the windows.  The air tank is rubber stamped with 3380.

 

 

This is the 3381 Pullman

It has Ambassador plates above the windows, two Pullman 3281 plates, and the air tanks are rubber stamped 3381.  Notice that there are two styles of trucks.  I think that the Type VIII truck is a replacement, but it is done so well they look as if they are factory done.

 

This is the 3382 Observation, and it has a nice variety or variations.

It has Golden State plates above the windows, one 3282 plate and one 3382 plate.  The air tanks are rubber stamped 3382.

 

 

I can tell that the roofs were repainted - there isn't a blemish on them.  Its hard to tell which of these various parts were installed at the factory during the end of the run of these cars and which were added by a previous owner. No matter which process they help to satisfy my need to find variations.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

The Annual American Flyer Christmas story is posted eslewhere in its own thread, but as usual I like to add it to this thread too.  

 

An American Flyer Tale for Christmas

  2015 Edition

 

 

Danny loved everything about Christmas.  He liked the preparations for the big day itself and he loved it when the preparations were all done and he could sit back and enjoy the way the house looked and smelled.  This was one of those times. 

Mom was out in the kitchen baking some his favorite gingerbread cookies, dad and his older brother were hanging greens and lights around the front porch, and his sister was sitting at the piano practicing carols for the family gathering on Christmas eve.  His job was to finish putting the last of the ornaments on the tree.  He had completed that task and he was sitting in his favorite chair with a mug of  hot chocolate admiring his work.

 

He thought that the tree looked exceptionally nice this year.  Several days ago a large sturdy box had been delivered by the mailman.  The return address said that it was from grandma and grandpa.  When his parents opened the box it turned out to be several dozen ornaments of various shapes and sizes and materials.  Each ornament was carefully wrapped in layers of paper and cotton to protect it from damage while it was being shipped.  A note tucked inside the box said that grandma and grandpa were thinning out their collection of ornaments and they hoped that these would find a new home with Danny’s family.

 

Opening each packet was like a mini Christmas.  There were beautiful blown glass ornaments with pushed in parts that reflected every bit of light.  There were stars and bells made of intricate filigree patterned metal.  One of the glass ornaments even looked like a hot air ballon with a blown glass basket hanging beneath it.  There were several shiney glass ornaments that looked like pine cones and various kinds of fruit and vegetables. A brown paper package tied together with heavy string and sturdy knots had a note attached to it in grandma’s beautiful handwriting; “Take good care of Spindleshanks.  He has a tendency to get into mischief.”

 

When dad opened the packet he chuckled and said “Hello Spindleshanks!  Where have you been this time?”  Danny smiled too.  He recognized his favorite ornament immediately.  Spindleshanks was an elf. He was dressed all in red, in a costume that looked like the one Santa wore.  The interesting thing about him was that when he lived with Danny’s grandparents he never seemed to stay in one place.  When Danny’s family stayed with grandma and grandpa he would be found in a different place each morning. Sometimes he would be on the christmas tree; other times he would be on the fireplace mantle, or on top of the refrigerator, or in the glass front china cabinet. Then there was the time he was found in the baking cupboard covered with powdered sugar up to his waist.  Once he was even found floating in the bathtub in a tupperware bowl.  No one ever seemed to be able to explain how Spindleshanks got from one place to another.  But everyone agreed that if he could talk, Spindleshanks would have some real tales to tell about his adventures.

 

As Danny sat looking at the tree he could see the mysterious little red elf looking back at him from the topmost branches of the tree.  Danny scanned down the tree picking out all of the new ornaments from grandma and grandpa until he came to the display under the tree.  Here was another one of Danny’s favorite things about Christmas; the American Flyer passenger train that circled the base of the tree.  When he as a very little boy that train had come home with his family after Christmas from his grandparents’ house.  Dad remembered it running around their Christmas tree every year when he was a boy, and now each year it ran around Danny’s family tree.  It was headed by a big powerful black steam engine, followed by three red streamlined passenger cars.  The engine had six big driving wheels and very intricate drive rods that always fascinated him as they sped around the oval of track.  Sometimes at night he would run the train with just the lights of the tree lit.  With his head on the carpet he would watch the headlight of the engine come racing toward him.  Suddenly it would pass him with the lighted windows of the passenger cars flying along right behind.  No matter how many times the engine and cars passed by he felt a thrill.  He wondered where all the passengers inside could possibly be going.

 

Today as he sat looking at the tree he decided to get the train running – just to make sure that everything was in working order.  He plugged the transformer into the wall receptacle and the red and green lights on the top sprung to life, and it began to hum softly.  He slowly moved the wooden handle of the transformer and the headlight of the engine and the lights in the cars began to glow. As he increased the power with the throttle the lights grew brighter and the engine began to move, and the drive rods began their familiar dance.  The engine picked up speed and soon the engine and red streamlined cars were speeding around the track under the tree.  Danny settled back into the chair and sipped his hot chocolate.

 

His reverie only lasted a few minutes before he heard his mother call.  “Danny, if you are done with the decorating I could use your help here in the kitchen.”  “Coming Mom.” Danny replied as he got up from the chair, turned down the throttle and pulled the plug out of the wall socket.  The passenger train glided to a stop centered right in front of the tree.  He took one more look at the tree with its decorations shining and lights twinkling and the train waiting beneath it for its next run.  With a satisfied sigh he headed off to the kitchen to help mom.  The rest of the day was filled with chores and a little shopping and preparations for the Christmas meals.  Danny didn’t have a chance to get back and enjoy any more time admiring his work that day.

 

By the time his head hit the pillow that night he was exhausted.  The rest of the family seemed to fall into bed ready for a long winter’s nap too.  As he dozed off to sleep he was imagining what all of those folks in the red streamlined passenger cars might be anticipating when they arrived at their Christmas destinations.  It didn’t take long before he was fast asleep. 

 

Danny was never quite sure exactly how long he had been asleep before he became aware of the odd noise.  He could hear a rumbling sound coming from somewhere in the house.  His eyes weren’t open but as he listened he thought that it sounded like the rumble was coming from somewhere downstairs.  He opened his eyes to a darkened room, but as he glanced out his window he could see that the full moon was shining brightly and reflecting on a new snow fall.  He could still hear the rumble coming from downstairs.  He slid his feet into his slippers and headed for the bedroom door.  As he stepped out into the hall he could see a glow of light shining up the staircase from downstairs.  It looked as if someone had left the Christmas tree lights lit.  The rumbling sound was louder and definitely coming from the living room.  As he crept down the stairs the light grew brighter and the rumbling louder.  He recognized the sound; someone was running the train.  Who in the world would be up at this hour?  When he reached the bottom of the stairs he could see into the living room.  The tree lights were lit, and the train was running at an acceptable speed, but there was no one in the living room.  “How odd!” he thought.  He walked over to the transformer and was astounded to see that the lights weren’t glowing and the cord was not plugged into the wall. He rubbed his eyes, and looked again.  The train was traveling along the tracks with its headlight shining ahead along the track and the lights of the passenger cars shining out on the white cotton sheet that Mom had provided for a snow cover.  Danny got down on his hands and knees and lowered  his face to track level to look at the engine.  It came around from the back side of the tree and slowed to a stop just in front of his face.  He thought he could see movement and a flash of red in the cab.  All of a sudden a tiny figure jumped down from the engine and waved at him.  It was Spindleshanks!

 

“Danny my boy!  Its good to see you.  I haven’t seen you since last year when I filled your slippers with Hershey’s kisses.”  Danny couldn’t believe what he was seeing and hearing.  Here was his favorite ornament talking to him. (He wondered last year where those candies had come from.) Spindleshanks looked at him and said.  “Wow is it ever fun to run this train again. She still handles like a well oiled machine. Its been years since I had a chance to take her for a spin. We elves living at your grandparents’ house used to enjoy a peppermint schnapps as we had a nice leisurely ride in those luxurious streamlined coaches around the tree after all of our work was done on Christmas eve.  I was sad when it disappeared from around your grandparents’ tree.”

 

Danny had to shake his head back and forth to clear his thinking.  “Are you for real?  Are you really Spindleshanks, or am I just dreaming?  The red clad elf smiled a broad smile and said. “Of course I’m real.  Why wouldn’t I be?  Hey Danny, how would you like to go for a ride on the Saint Nicholas Special?”  “You mean this train?” Danny said with astonishment. “I’d love to, but I could never fit in the engine or the cars.”  “Oh I can fix that.” said Spindleshanks with a glint in his eye.  He reached down to a pouch on his belt and pulled out a fist full of something.  “OK Danny now take a very deep breath.”  Danny inhaled deeply through his nose and Spindleshanks threw a sparkling powder at him.  At first Danny could smell a strong scent of pine, carmel, candy cane and what he thought was wet golashes. Suddenly he had a strong need to sneeze.  And sneeze he did!  He reflexively closed his eyes as he sneezed and when he opened his eyes again he was face to face with Spindleshanks.  “What happened?” said Danny.  He looked behind the elf and he saw the big black engine and the gleaming red streamlined cars stretched out behind him on the track. The engine was puffing and making a slow deep sound like it was breathing.  Danny looked over head and saw the branches of the Christmas tree spread out far above him. “Oh my gosh! I’m tiny!”  “Actually you are just the right size to ride on the Saint Nicholas Special” chuckled Spindleshanks.  “Come on! Lets go for a ride!”  The elf grabbed Danny by the hand and pulled him toward the engine and then boosted him up into the cab. He jumped in right behind Danny and waved his arms around in a stange set of motions. Slowly the engine started to move backward.  “Whoops,” said Spindleshanks, “my mistake.  Its been a while, I’m a little rusty.”  He went through an equally strange set of gyrations and the engine started to move forward.  Danny grabbed on to the window frame of the engine’s cab and held on as the train with its string of cars picked up speed.

 

As the train rumbled along the track Danny grew accustomed to its gentle swaying, and the way it took curves with a bit of a lurch.  At first he was confused by the scenery.  It seemed as if the train was going through deep canyons, across flat prairies, and through cities with large and oddly painted buildings.  He also noticed that the train always made left turns.  It took him a while to realize that they were still on the oval of track under the tree and the canyons and large building were the wrapped  presents under the tree and the prairie was actually Mom’s new carpet in the living room.  How strange it was to see his living room and the tree from this perspective.  He looked over at Spindleshanks sitting in the engineer’s seat and watched as he pointed his finger at different contol levers and buttons and they moved as if under their own power.  Spindleshanks smiled at him and said  “Hey Danny!  Hold on to your britches.  We are about to go on a little side trip.”  With that he made more strange movements with his arms and hands and the engine plunged into a pitch black tunnel. It was so dark that the headlight barely illuminated the track ahead of them.  They rattled on through the darkness for what seemed like miles. Suddenly the engine made a sharp right turn, throwing Danny to the floor, and burst into a world full of light and bright colors.

 

It took Danny’s eyes a few seconds to adjust to the bright light after the darkness of the tunnel. The engine was traveling at a slower pace now and he could see that they were in a town with many houses and buildings and  street crossings that were protected by crossing gates with flashing lights and ringing bells.  “I thought you might like to see what a really fine layout looks like.” shouted Spindleshanks over the din of the signals and the rattling of the cars behind them.  Danny watched as trees covered with snow and a barn with cows and horses went whizzing by.  They chugged past a passenger station that saidAmerican Flyer Terminal Station on a sign with a host of people standing on a platform, and a switch tower with men looking out of the windows. Danny noticed that the people weren’t moving and he realized that they were small figures like the ones that he had seen at the hobby shop and thought of adding to their Christmas layout.  The layout had a small country church with a manger scene in front of it and a school that was obviously on break for the holiday season. They passed through street crossings for the main streets in the town and Danny could see that there were ornate street lights and many Christmas decorations on the buildings and in windows. “Wow is this ever cool!” he shouted to Spindleshanks. “I’d like to do this at home.”  “I thought you would like it.”replied the elf.  Danny was thinking of asking Spindleshanks if they could stop so that he could walk around and look at more things when the elf shouted “Hold on! Its time for us to head back.”

 

Once again Spindleshanks made a variety of motions with his hands and the engine plunged back into the tunnel-like darkness.  The trip back to Danny’s living room seemed to be much shorter.  As they arrived and began to circle the oval under the tree he noticed through the living room windows that there was a growing brightness in the sky. “Holy Cow! It must be just about dawn.” He exclaimed.   “Spindleshanks, what am I going to do? I’m the size of the people on that layout. My family will never understand why I am so small.”  O nce again Spindleshanks chuckled warmly.  “Have no fear I can take careof that.”  Reaching into the tender of the engine he picked up a large candy cane.  “Jump out of the engine quickly Danny and move away from the tree.”  Danny did as he was told and moved quickly away from the train.  With that Spindleshanks broke the candy cane over his knee and shouted “Misteltoe Magic!”  Danny blinked his eyes and suddenly he was full size again.  He looked around and saw that the tree lights were dark, and the engine was centered in front of the tree just where he had left it yesterday afternoon.  He looked up at the top of the tree and saw Spindleshanks standing in the spot where Danny had originally put him. He was sure that he saw the elf wink at him and then heard him say.  “Come back again soon Danny.  I have plenty of other adventures that I can take you on

Merry Christmas!”

                                  Spindleshanks

 

 

 

The Saint Nicholas Express

(This set appears in the 1939 American Flyer Catalog)

 

On the layout

 

Merry Christmas

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

[Nationwidelines]

Getting back to the question of track, like Northwoods indicated, I have found that I do not necessarily need switches on my layout either.  Within the last year, I redid the track on my layout and got rid of the gargraves O gauge track and switched to Lionel tubular track.  I am sure I could have put some switches in, but I like the trains to run and prewar trains do not uncouple easily, so there was no real reason that I had to have switches in my track plan.

I am currently running 1 loop of standard gauge track and 3 loops of O gauge track, with the curves on the wide gauge loop being 72" radius with a full section of straight track at the center of each curve, then 1 loop of O with 72" radius, a loop of O with 54" radius, and the last loop of O being the standard Lionel O radius track. 

I do admit to liking the new Lionel track a bit better than the gargraves track, but the decision to re-do the track was really unrelated to the type of track and was related more to the age of the track I had and some other issues. 

 

NWL

[Northwoods Flyer]

All of the track on the Blueboard Central is Fastack.  The layout was intended to be a place to display the collection and give the trains a place to operate.  Early in its development I had hoped to have a few sidings and at least one passing siding. I bought just one manual Fastrack switch to test how the pre war Flyer engines would handle the switch.  As Nationwidelines discovered with the other brands of switches, the pre war engines don't like the design of Fastrack switches. Some of the steamers might handle them but the electrics take a hard bump going through and derail. Because I like Fastrack (no separations, no shifting in over 8 years even though the track is just laying on the styrofoam base, and good conductivity throughout the track) I decided to not use switches. The two loops are independent and have no sidings.  That isn't a problem for me because I just run trains; I don't try to do any real operations, and I can't think of any pre war accessories that interact with cars sitting on a track. I liked the looks of the Fastrack grade crossing but I discoverd that the engines don't like that piece of track either; so back to the hobby shop it went.

Any of my photos here on the thread will show equipment on Fastrack even though I can't use any switches.  Some day I might redo the layout so that I can have a loop of 5 rail dual gauge track so that I can run some Wide gauge trains in the collection.

I assume that the pre war O gauge engines work with orginal pre war tubular track switches. I have some, but I don't remember using them since I was a child and the O gauge ran under the Christmas tree. One of these days I should set up an oval with some switches to see how they handle it.  Some of the larger Flyer engines like the Hiawatha and the Hudson needed wider radius curves (and 4 rail track if you were going to use the whistles) but to my knowledge they never produced switches for the 4 rail track.  I wonder if the larger engines would go through the switches of the time?

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Nationwidelines]

The issue I had with the switch frogs, is related to the engines only, as the earlier steam engines and electric boxcab engines have wide flanges on the wheels, which modern trains do not have.  The switch frogs on gargraves and ross custom switches (and I cannot honestly say I know about fast-track switches) were not made to accomodate such wide flanges on the wheels and the engines would de-rail when going through the switches.  I ended up getting rid of my switches and then had no problems with the track with the prewar trains.

NWL

[balidas]

Ok. I'll keep the possible issue with switches in mind. I figured that since all the pix show the various cars posing on Fast track & in my mind Fast track being fairly equivalent to 027, I didn't think there'd be any problems. Thank you.

[Nationwidelines]

balidas

Hi guys! Did American Flyer ever produce 027 profile track or was it all O gauge? Is there any known issues with running prewar American Flyer on 027? Thanx.

 

 

American Flyer did not produce any O27 profile track. 

I do not know of any issues with running Flyer O on O27 and for a number of years I ran mine on Gargraves O track (which is probably more similar to O27 than Flyer track) and the only issues I had were with switch frogs, but I do not think you would have problems if you are using Lionel switches. 

[balidas]

Hi guys! Did American Flyer ever produce 027 profile track or was it all O gauge? Is there any known issues with running prewar American Flyer on 027? Thanx.

[Nationwidelines]

The Discoverer - Re-Discovered!

The Discoverer set from 1930 has been re-discovered! 

The Discoverer, set 1324, was cataloged in 1930 and 1931; however, the set underwent a significant change between the two years.  In 1930 it came with the short-lived 3109 engine that has the die-cast hoods on each end and in 1931 the set came with the 3116 engine with sheet-metal hoods on each end. 

Although the catalog artwork for 1931 shows the same artwork shown below, it specifically lists engine 3116 instead of engine 3109.

According to the Greenberg's guide, the 3109 engines were "top-heavy and prone to tip over or yaw from side to side when rolling along".  I cannot say I have ever had a problem with the 3109 tipping over or yawing when running, but they are prone to having their cast hoods decay and fall apart.  Apparently, that is what happened to the original engine in this set, as the box has notes from 1959 indicating that the original engine had broken and an incorrect replacement engine had been put with the set. 

I am fortunate enough to have a nice 3109 with original hoods to put back with the set, which I have done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This set has answered a couple of questions about American Flyer that have nagged at me for a while.

1st - when was the transition from black trucks to gray trucks, and this set has both a gondola with black trucks and remaining cars with gray trucks, indicating that they must have been using up old stock in 1930 and transitioning to gray trucks and black framed cars.

2nd - Over the years I have seen Flyer curved track with both 3 and 4 ties per section.  I have always wondered about the use of 4 ties per section.  This set came with original track that is in mint condition that has 4 ties per curved section. 

NWL

[Northwoods Flyer]

January 22, 2008  -  January 22, 2016

Celebrating

8

 years

of

Pre War American Flyer Pictures

 

It amazes me how quickly the time passes between these annual entries.  As I look back at all of the posts that have been made to this thread during the year I am greatful to everyone who has taken the time to make comments, ask questions, answer questions, add information and most of all post photos. I am even more amazed when I look back over the wealth of information that we have gathered here over the past 8 years. Each time that I think we are running out of things to post I find something new to post, or someone asks a question that sends me off to do research. I can always count on one of the frequent contributors to find something new to post. Again, let me offer my thanks.

Most of all I want to thank Classic Toy Trains and Kalmbach Publishing for allowing this thread to run for so long.

Now, on to a new year of photos and shared discoveries and information.

One of the challenges in collecting American Flyer equipment is discovering and recognizing variations.  So to give you a little practice in sharpening your powers of observation, here are photos of 8 variations of the 9 1/2 inch Narrow Gauge tank car. There are 8 here and amazingly there are many more - but those will have to wait for another year.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

                       

[rack776]

Northwoods Flyer

Hi Jason,

I hope you have gotten the pieces of equipment to complete your doubleheader set by now. I also hope this post doesn't create additional interest and competition.   

Lets play "Let's Pretend". Afterall, isn't that what "playing" with tinplate trains is all about?   

So, its 1940. Gilbert is still trying to sell off the leftover stock from the Chicago era production.

 The Mountain Redball "Double Header" set sold well last year

     

But they still have a large inventory of unpowered engines sitting in the warehose, and there are oodles of #420s sitting around too. A clever young guy in the marketing department suggests that they put a "Heritage Line" in the back of the catalog and sell off the Chicago Flyer stock.  It will be one page and the top of the line offering will be:

"The Heavy Hauler"  -  Triple Header 

I'm putting it on my "must have" list for Christmas 1940.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That Tripple Headder is too cool! Thanks for posting it.....You might even want to think about putting a big hudson at the front...WOW! would that be something to see run with a long string of cars behind it!

Yes, I finally aquired the last tender, trailing trucks & misc. parts I needed to complete my double header set,  I also found a decent 420 from the right year with the correct details to go with my set. I paid alot more than I wanted to but it was worth it to end a long frustrating search for that engine.

I still have a lot of cleaning, straightening de-rusting to do to make up a presentable set, I'm trying to uses as many unrestored original paint parts as I can, I have some freight cars with very nice original paint but rusted worn trim, trucks & wheels and i have some badly dented & scratched up cars with nice trim and trucks, I still need to get the correct AF rivets before I open up tabs, to swap arround  and re-assemble one nice clean car from a few  different parts cars. .....Its a long term project but at least I now have all the missing pieces to the puzzel.

I did notice 4 things about my original 401 dummy engine that will help spot a fake or recreation of this engine from a more common 410.

1. On my original there is no hole in the top of the boiler shell where the small rectangle weight is rivited to the underside of the boiler shell

2. There is no cast weight welded inside the steam chest, it is hollow.

3. The pin for the tender draw bar is mounted facing up for the correct tender's draw bar. The 410 points down, the 401 faces up

4. The chassis for the 401 dummy frame is rivited together without the laminated plates for the field part of the motor, a real dummy should have no sign of ever having a motor installed or rivits removed.

It would be a heck of a trick to fake a 401 shell & frame with out welding up the extra holes, removing the cab weights and swapping the riveted tender pin upside down, and removing the motor from the frame.

Hope this helps anyone looking to identify an original dummy if they want to build a red ball double header set from parts or are looking at a set for sale.

-Jason

 

 

[Nationwidelines]

That is a nice representation of the set, but I think your engine dates to a couple of years later, as evidenced by the tall drivers, which were also used on the 1936 Hudson.  The earlier engines in 1932 would have had the smaller drivers, which were found on all of the engines of that era.

The cars with the brass plates look very nice. 

NWL

[Northwoods Flyer]

American Flyer Narrow Gauge

1932 

Set #1350  The New Paul Revere

The set has a #3316 Engine and Tender combination, 2 #3171 Pullmans and a #3172 Observation.

I was fortunate to get the boxes with the cars

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

NationWideLines,

Thank you for the good wishes.  It has been a great time hosting this thread.  Your contributions have helped to preserve the information that you talk about in your post and we have discovered some new information too. This thread is what it is because of the contributions of many people.

I am continually amazed by the variations and examples of equipment that you find.  The photos just above are good examples. To think, they have been around for a century.

Thanks for reminding me that the 8th anniversary of the thread is fast approaching.  I'd better start working on the entry for that day. 

Thanks Again

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods,

I want to congratulate you, even if it is a bit early.  Nearly 8 years have gone by since your first post on January 22, 2008!

By the time American Flyer celebrated its 8-year anniversary in 1915, the company had experienced many changes:  they had recently relocated to their 3rd location, a factory on South Halstead Street, where they would remain until they sold out to AC Gilbert in 1938; WO Coleman II was running the company, having recently taken over from his father; and they were into their second generation of lithograph cars, having eliminated the "Chicago" cars from their lineup in 1914. 

Yet there were still many milestones to come for American Flyer during the prewar era:  1918 would see American Flyer start producing electric powered trains; 1925 would see them introduce Wide Gauge (Standard Gauge for all you Lionel readers); they would celebrate their 20th Anniversary in 1927; and they would produce some of their most desired trains (by at least collectors today) in the 1928-1932 era, including the Flying Colonel, Legionaires, and Mayflower sets.  They would also experiment with many different items such as: floor toy airplanes; toy typewriters; toy cash registers; and for many years would be the distributor for Structo Toys (which WO Coleman reportedly had some ownership interest in???)

I see the future of toy train collecting as potentially troubling times, as many of the older collectors are passing away and significant knowledge is being lost to future generations.  This blog is one of the ways to keep this knowledge fresh and available to newer collectors.

Congrats!

Here are some pictures of the 1915-1916 era items from American Flyer

 

 

 

 

[vintageflyer]

Northwoods, thanks for the find. Makes things interesting.

[Northwoods Flyer]

vintage flyer,

Check on eBay.  There is one there right now.  It isn't cheap, but it looks like it is almost the same bell.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edwards-13-2AB-Lungen-Bell-General-Door-Office-Signaling-Bell-Chime-1-3-4-/221763318636?hash=item33a21fb36c:g:E9sAAOSwrklVOTuM

I would guess you could check old hardware stores for old stock, but that could be a long shot.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[vintageflyer]

I could not find these on the website. Has anyone had better luck? I could use one for a repair.

[Northwoods Flyer]

I think we found the source of the bells for the signal.

Apparently they are still in business:

https://www.edwards-signals.com/index.cfm?Level=50&PG=21

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods,

My understanding is that the bells are door bells from the 20's and 30's.  This likely explains why the different mechanisms, as Flyer was limited to what they could get.   Not sure why the difference in the masts.