The Locolawyer announced on the OGR Forum today that MTH has appealed to the Supreme Court.
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/57660482/m/1171062734
In my opinion Mike has lost his mind. But heh...
From what I have been told, and I am not a lawyer....thank God, but I believe MTH's only recourse would be to start from square one and go with a new trial. I have also been informed that mediation is on going, let's hope this can be put to rest.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
dwiemer wrote:From what I have been told, and I am not a lawyer....thank God, but I believe MTH's only recourse would be to start from square one and go with a new trial. I have also been informed that mediation is on going, let's hope this can be put to rest.Dennis
Now I am not a lawyer either but it appears that one of his options, as you stated above, is to resort to mediation in the NY bankruptcy court.
The second option is to appeal to the US Supreme Court and postpone mediation in the NY bankruptcy court. This appears to be what he has chosen to do according to the Locolawyers post in the other forum.
The third option would be to start or refile (from the beginning) the original case in the lower court as the Appeals Court stated that he could do when they rejected the original verdict (twice now).
I would hope the US Supreme Court has better cases to listen to than TOY TRAINS !
I seriously doubt a new trial would be undertaken, as it is a stretch to think the MTH attornies would continue on a contingency basis. When the company has to start shelling out millions of dollars it may not have in legal fees to "take a shot" so to speak, this may start winding down.
As I have stated fomr Day one, the only winners in this case will be the attornies - and actually only half of them won, asd MTH attornies didn't get paid any fees.
Also, the real losers in this case are the hobbyists.
I know I'm pretty new to the hobby and all, and I really dont know much about court and lawsuits and such, but it just seems ridiculous. I'm not taking a shot at MTH or anyone. I just think the business world altogether has gone too cut-throat, and the world is just lawsuit happy to make any extra dollar they can. Everywhere you turn someone is suing someone over something, or some company is trying to bury another. There used to be a time when a business deal could be sealed by shaking hands, common decency and trust. Those days are long gone. Its a shame that there cant just be some harmless competition in this day and age. I just with from a consumer aspect that they would just leave eachother alone and stick to what they should be doing....making trains for us, their customers.
PJ
Just one more reason I don't buy MTH trains.
Stan.
THE SOUTHERN SERVES THE SOUTH.
PJ, Frank, good observations. I think that by this point, the people in the hobby are just wishing it would go away. You will have loyalists on the side of MTH that will continue to speak from their soap box about the case, and you will have folks on the side of Lionel who will speak up as well (call me guilty), but in the end, it would be nice for this whole thing to just go away. I also highly doubt that the Supreme court would take this case as MTH would have to show falacy in the argument of the lower court's two decisions. Nothing new was presented for the second appeal, so, unless MTH has a hidden trump card, I think this is a non starter.
I'm inclined, in all cluelessness perhaps, to wonder if this is some sort of delaying action in hope of getting Judge Lifland (the bankruptcy judge) to allow Lionel to sit in bankruptcy a little longer (which favors MTH) while the bankruptcy court waits for a decision on this latest motion. I'm guessing no judge is inclined to hold an estimation of damages hearing on a case that might come before the Supreme Court after he has ruled. The absolute last thing MTH wants from what I've seen is to have Judge Lifland hold that hearing, but that day of reckoning appears inevitable unless something intervenes. Like the Supreme Court.
Alternatively, it's just going through the last desperate motion (pun intended) with little or no hope of a happy, for MTH, outcome, given that a 40 million dollar plus payday has just been blown away in federal appeals court.
Well if this is going to the Supreme Court then send an email to the Justices and ask them to throw it out on the basis that the case is nothing but bad news for the hobby, if you are so inclined, if not then just sit back and wait and see what happens.As for buying or not buying MTH engines or what not, I will continue to purchase the best items at the best price... no matter who makes it or not.
Ya have to wonder where all this is going. Will MTH go bankrupt due to mounting legal fees and little to no lawsuit windfalls? Will Maury Kline assume control of MTH and rename it Maury's Train House? Will Lionel absorb MTH into it's rapidly growing 3 rail empire and chug along for another 100 years?
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
jaabat wrote: Ya have to wonder where all this is going. Will MTH go bankrupt due to mounting legal fees and little to no lawsuit windfalls?
Ya have to wonder where all this is going. Will MTH go bankrupt due to mounting legal fees and little to no lawsuit windfalls?
It appears MTH has spent little, if anything, on attorney fees, as their firm took the case on contingency. It is possible the Supreme Court filing decision was more the law firm's idea than MTH's. as the law firm is probably willing to go a bit further to try and get something for all the work they put in the original case, only for it to be thrown out. However. they will probably only go so far before MTH has to pony up - that is the point where this will start to circle the drain.
I doubt, based on news reports, that MTH has the financial wherewithall to carry this forward and finance the attorney fees. Lionel spent millions defending the suit, MTH would probably have to spend millions to bring a new trial forward. Based on the Inc article, for example, which reported MTH being not nearly as financially flush as they had been in the past, I doubt they have millions in the bank to finance such an effort.
As for not having received the expected financial windfall - a whole different kettle of fish.
I think the heat is on.
Bob Keller
Ogaugeoverlord wrote:He's right, he's wrong, he's going all the way, his company doesn't have the money to do it, the supreme court will never hear it, the supreme court will hear it, it will destroy the hobby, the hobby will be better than ever before, Maury will rise from the grave, no he won't, MTH will go bankrupt, MTH will become Matuch's Train House, MTH will buy Ford, and Allan Miller will channel the ghost of J.L. Cowen to get his perspective on the issue, but wait, no Allan Miller won't, but Jim Bunte will, and it won't be J.L. Cowen, but Jimmy Hendrix. Or maybe Momma Cass.That covers the subject pretty well.
Bob, you should write for a living. You sure have the knack!
lionroar88 wrote:This is why we need Tort Reform in the US. If you lose a case, you pay all legal fees - for both parties. This would put an end to a number of frivolous lawsuits. I'm not saying that MTH's case is frivolous, not by any stetch... but my gut feeling tells me MTH's lawyers ARE being paid is one form or another. If a Lawfirm is hired on retainer (which I am sure MTH's and Lionel's are, then their legal fees are included in the retainer). So in this case, I would bet both firms are being paid a monthly fee, and not on a case-by-case basis.
I agree. To take such a time-consuming case on contingency alone would be foolish. And even if they were, I would think at some point those lawyers would most likely smarten up an realize the odds against being paid and either walk out or negotiate a payment plan.
I had the personal misfortune to be in a court case years ago with a relentless plantiff and a foundationless case seeking about $500,000. The opposing party had an attorney on contingency. I had $250.00 per hour.
Six years later, I came away paying $16,000, which I could have appealed, but at that point, it wasn't worth it.
I general terms, legal fees and the ripple effect impact of the action conservatively cost me a million dollars.
and that's what's wrong with our legal system.
I think its time for a commerative Court Train. Engine and tender painted Orange and Purple, a modified hobo car with a couple of suits chasing each other. Followed by an aquarium car modified with images of dollar bills flowing by. Maybe an exploding box car, and of course a couple of 300,000 gallon propane cars modified as Hot Air cars. Another modified aquarium car/cash car. And finally a flat car with a couple of caskets.
The advantages would be great, expansion packs could be added everyyear.
Don
dbaker48 wrote:I think its time for a commerative Court Train. Engine and tender painted Orange and Purple, a modified hobo car with a couple of suits chasing each other. Followed by an aquarium car modified with images of dollar bills flowing by. Maybe an exploding box car, and of course a couple of 300,000 gallon propane cars modified as Hot Air cars. Another modified aquarium car/cash car. And finally a flat car with a couple of caskets.The advantages would be great, expansion packs could be added everyyear.
I love your idea for a law suit express!
jaabat wrote: dbaker48 wrote: I think its time for a commerative Court Train. Engine and tender painted Orange and Purple, a modified hobo car with a couple of suits chasing each other. Followed by an aquarium car modified with images of dollar bills flowing by. Maybe an exploding box car, and of course a couple of 300,000 gallon propane cars modified as Hot Air cars. Another modified aquarium car/cash car. And finally a flat car with a couple of caskets.The advantages would be great, expansion packs could be added everyyear. I love your idea for a law suit express!
dbaker48 wrote: I think its time for a commerative Court Train. Engine and tender painted Orange and Purple, a modified hobo car with a couple of suits chasing each other. Followed by an aquarium car modified with images of dollar bills flowing by. Maybe an exploding box car, and of course a couple of 300,000 gallon propane cars modified as Hot Air cars. Another modified aquarium car/cash car. And finally a flat car with a couple of caskets.The advantages would be great, expansion packs could be added everyyear.
commerative Court Train. Engine and tender painted Orange and Purple, a modified hobo car with a couple of suits chasing each other. Followed by an aquarium car modified with images of dollar bills flowing by. Maybe an exploding box car, and of course a couple of 300,000 gallon propane cars modified as Hot Air cars. Another modified aquarium car/cash car. And finally a flat car with a couple of caskets.
Don, You stole this idea from me, I had it yesterday. My Lawyers will be contacting you and seeking $40,000,000. Besides the engine and tender should be painted purple and orange, the suits will chase each other on a modified gondola car. You got the aquarium cars right, but the Hot air car will be a modifed "balloon" car with floating hot air balloon. In addition the flat car will have alternating purple and orange caskets.
If I could think as original as you I would not need to sue, but it is costing me nothing so I will see you in court. ;-)
Jim H
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