Ideas for model trains

[Anonymous]

[Kooljock1]

Isn't "Semaphores's" a little redundant on the "s's's's"?

If you're looking to start a business, the you need to do some market research.

1. Is there a need for another manufacturer? Or is the playing field already too crowded?

2. Can I make a product that will compete for price/quality in the field?

3. What will my distribution net be? Direct to consumers? Direct to hobby shops? To distributors, then to hobby shops? Internet sales only?

I'm sure others will add to this list. But there's much more research needed before picking an era!

Jon

[dwiemer]

Jon is correct.  You can peruse the forum, this one and OGR's and get some ideas of what people are looking for.  I would not do this as a blatant attempt to use the forums as your method of business as it is just wrong.  But you can watch the posts and see what catches people's interest.

A good way to start would be to follow Ready Made Toys model in that they don't have many offerings, but they do have a few that they do well.  As the name gets out and they break into the market place, they add more items.  I would look for what you can do well and see if that fits.  IE: your list name, maybe you can see if you can design and market quality signal devices. 

Good Luck,

Dennis

[Bob Keller]

While it is great to dream, the reality is that there is a pretty full marketplace as it is.

RMT has done fairly well by having access to tooling, having a high quality manufacturer in China, and by taking very small steps. As Kooljock noted, you need to think of more than what you're going to offer, but everything from design to distribution.

And as one manufacturer said to me a few years ago "Nobody is getting rich, but we're paying the bills."

[Anonymous]

 Good point Dennis, I would need some research on the eras and trains I choose to sell and where will I sell my products. I would sell my products online, in hobby stores, my store itself, and train stores. I am aiming to sell in the $75.00 - $900.00 range. A product will only be $900.00 if you choose an engine, cars, track, accessories, and a power supply and have in put in a special box. It depends on what engine you choose and what price it is and what product line and if it is a special production piece. I am not really trying to start a business, I just want people's opinions if I should start a business and if I should follow other companies to get some experience. The name of the business also tells you that I will release market quality semaphore signals and other products railroaders want. 

[Kooljock1]

While the field is crowded, a smart entrepeneur can always carve a niche. Some of RMT's biggest, most vocal fans are those who said there was no more room only a few years ago.

Having said that, it's gonna be tough to beat Z-Stuff semaphores on price and quality.

Jon

[Anonymous]

If you have a day job and a ton of money that you don't mind losing, go ahead and launch a business (assuming you also have a very good, and comprehensive, business plan ready and approved by your financial sources before the start-up).

I would never want to discourage any entrepreneur, but my own feeling is that you couldn't have picked a worse time to consider entering the model railroading industry as a product manufacturer.

I have to disagree with Jon's assessment of RMT, though.  When the first BEEP was announced--even before, in fact, because they were being made by Toy Truck Collector prior to Walter Matuch branching out on his own--they were almost immediately well received because a good many hobbyists, me included, wanted to see more small, quality products at affordable prices.  I bought several of the TCC models when they were available, and even wrote to them asking them to consider expanding the line.  Walter picked up the ball and ran with it, and I assume he's doing quite well in his specialty niche of the market. 

[A&Y Ry]

In addition to the sage advice above, you will need a defense attorney on retainer and at least a couple million $ blanket liability insurance coverage.

[3railguy]

We need O gauge live steam locomotives and diesels that run on real kerosene. Also, an aquarium car we can fill with water and goldfish. The Chief would buy that in a heartbeat.

[underworld]

I think Chief would also buy a hot grits hopper!

underworld

[brianel027]

Allan, Jon is not totally off base. I also recall many a comment on the OGR forum that dumped on the RMT BEEP as it wasn't this or that and that it was an 027 product and they all hate 027 products..... blah blah blah blah. I recall a thread over there on what folks did for a living and was surprised at all the well-educatded (worldly-wise anyways) people there were. Yet at the same time it is so amazing how narrow-minded and intolerant they are of any train product that isn't aimed exclusively at their selfish wants.

All that aside, the train market is big enough with the "silent majority" that the BEEP was still well received by many who do not post long lengthy impractical wish-lists on the forums. None of these train forums are TRULY reflective of the actual buying market out there, and 027 traditional products are far more in demand than anyone gives credit for. That the BEEP has done as well as it has and that RMT is doing well speaks eons towards this thought. Of course, Walter can keep his prices down by utilizing existing tooling and dies versus the development of totally new expensive tooling..... a point missed by so many otherwise intelligent train buyers.

The new catalogs and new products do not reflect the high interest in these non-scale traditionally sized trains that seem to sell very well on the secondary market. And there are lots of them out there, and prices for the most part are down from what they were a decade ago. So even though the new catalogs may be aimed at the scale high-end market, the other 027 products do sell well on the secondary market.

[thor]

What happened to the original message content Semaphores, did you delete it?  I remember what you wrote though and I think you are right about the era - 1920's - just wrong about the locale!  Talk about deja vu all over again. A while back I wrote a l'etter to Jerry' on my blog and I said:-

'Until the early 20th century, Britains railways fielded a number of very individual locomotive designs and liverys, in other words colorful and interesting looking and most of all, small, locomotives and rolling stock.


All of us 0 gaugers are enthralled by BIG complex locomotives but the majority can't afford to run them for reasons of space as much as money. The big ones require 72" diameter curves though many will negotiate tighter curves whereon they look rather incongruous but the main objection is the space issue, one big boy will almost take up my entire oval of track!


What most of us want is the size and cost of 0-27 with the effort put into them like Lionels docksider and other small trains of recent vintage whereby the careful attention to detail and colorful road names and paint schemes compensate for their diminutive size.


This is where British locos really shine! Using the Illustrated Directory of Trains of the World by Brian Hollingsworth (2000 Edition ISBN 0-7603-0891-8) as my reference, please be so good as to refer to the following examples:-


Page 58 GNR Stirling Single 4-2-2 Color green
Page 60 HR Duke Class 4-4-0 Color yellow
Page 68 MR Johnson Single 4-4-2 Color red
Page 82 NER Q1 4-4-0 Color green
Page 84 GER claud Hamilton 4-4-0 Color royal blue


I didn't take photos of the book and put them up because of copyright issues, though I'll evenually make original drawings and can put them up later.


The reason I've chosen these examples is for their wheel arrangement which allows you to use existing mechanisms and for their colors. They are all classic designs, elegant and small in size, under represented by ALL manufacturers in any gauge and much beloved by train buffs and likely to sell well to ALL toy train lovers simply because they look so cute.'

 

Semaphores, I'm not a business man nor have I any experience in doing anything except losing money on my many hobbies but if I could get started somehow on putting my ideas into practice I'd definitely make one of the above locos and then offer it for sale via the Net and I think, if it was a good effort, I'd get some takers. 

I'm your average atypical toy train nut, meaning not at all knowledgeable about the real thing and really not all that interested either, I just happen to like trains rather in the way that one might like a type of art, such as Art Nouveau. I buy trains primarily for their looks and often repaint to suit. So, for instance, I like the Lionel x-4-x (x= 2 or 4) models which I look for used and cheap and then happily repaint in bright colors. 

Oh and also BTW I like semaphore signals very much and wish that I could find reasonably priced English style ones where the upper arm goes up about to 45 degrees rather than sticking up nearly vertical which doesnt look right. Though I guess I could modify a bought one and probably will. Also English ones use different colours and shaped like V notches, either the end of the arm or the stripe, I have no idea why or what it means but they look great! I'd like to be able to make or buy the kind that have two arms on one post too.

So whatever you decide to make, if you do, I shall probably be interested in. You might not get many takers over here but I'm sure you would in the UK if the price was right as UK 'O' gauge stuff is pretty expensive.

Maybe go the small ad/internet word of mouth/website route and make a sample piece and see how many takers you get?  I hope you do and I wish you well.

[underworld]

I can't see the text of your original post, but I've got an idea of it from others responses. If you are looking at manufacturing British or other European outline locomotives I say go for it! You might want to check these companies if you don't already know about them.

http://www.acetrains.com/ and

http://www.ets-trains.com/

Both are great manufacturers and they both offer many small locos...steam,electric and diesel.

Check these to see what the market/competition is like.

Good Luck!!!

underworld

[Anonymous]

Ok then, I realized that I can't just start the company right off because I'll need money, dies, a factory, workers, etc. It might be harder for me to start this company then. But it is worth the try. By the way, a Hot Grits Hopper would be a cool idea though!

[gvdobler]

The best way to make a small fortune in the business, is to start with a large one.

[jimhaleyscomet]

It seems you have a few choices here.    

1.  See what company systems work.  I.e. model your company after Williams, RMT, MTH or even K-line during its successful period.  Then copy the system.  This is probably the most difficult way because the field is already crowded.  And don't forget....Marx and K-line went under for a specific reasons.

2.  Find a company system outside the train world that works and model your business after it.   For example..Bene Hahna (sp?) figured that they could make the dinner at the table and reduce the amount of space required for a kitchen and make "custom" dinners from a very basic set of ingredients.   I once had a boss that looked at how Grayhound stored luggage under the passengers.  Then he applied that idea to mobile medical units allowing space inside the trailer for the scanner, doctors office, and computers and space under the trailer for air conditioners and a generator.  Buy the way....mobile medical units are still built but I think he is out of business.   

2.  Find a product that no one is is making and produce it using one of the systems mentioned above.

3.  Find a service or product no one is now providing.  I am thinking here of something similar to indoor live steam etc that will not destroy the track, carpet, or house.  Or perhaps an automated flexible manufacturing that will provide people custom paint jobs without huge expense.    I am thinking here of a model that either uses some kind of dealer/customer applied option for "paint".    There is a lady that developed train software that just prints out brick, windows, signs and doors.  I am not sure how successful she is though.  

4.  Develop a new distribution method that will get toy trains into folks hands either faster, cheaper, and/or with more selection.   

Good luck!

Jim H 

[kpolak]

Ok then, I realized that I can't just start the company right off because I'll need money, dies, a factory, workers, etc. It might be harder for me to start this company then. But it is worth the try. By the way, a Hot Grits Hopper would be a cool idea though!

A hot butter tank would be a nice addition to the hot grits car!

Kurt

[pbjwilson]

I did some wallpapering for an elderly woman a few years ago. I couldnt help notice she had a model of a steam engine and a boxcar on a shelf in her living room. I asked her about them and got a very interesting story. Her husband had been a machinist and crafted these models in the early 50's. They were beautiful brass models. The engine was a Hudson, very close to what a 773 looks like but with more detail. The boxcar too was brass and very detailed. She explained to me that her husband was toying with the idea of starting a model train business that would be more scale sized than the Lionels of the day. She went on to say the costs of production were too high for him to market his trains. But it was fascinating to see that here was an example of a guy who had put alot of effort and thought into starting a business to give Lionel some competition. I'm sure there are many more stories of those who had similiar ideas. And alot of people who tried and failed. Either way you have to admire those with an entrepreneurial spirit.

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