Traditional-size TMCC Locos?

[Anonymous]

I've seen a number of debates on TMCC vs. conventional running... so does Lionel or any other manuf. make TMCC locomotives (preferably diesel for me!) in the traditional size as opposed to the standard size? I'm getting a starter set so I'll have an engine and a few freight cars in traditional size.

Anyway, gauge, scale, blah. I just need a way to determine what's traditional and what's standard. I assume all the cheap ($25 or so) Lionel freight cars are traditional and all the 'spensive ones are standard.

Not real familiar with other manufacturers yet, maybe someone here already knows the answer!

Thanks,

Homer

[csxt30]

I found one traditional size Railsounds engine in the new Lionel catalog.   It is  the Berkshire 2-8-4 . The Lionel # is 6-11101.  Just click on below & go to the catalog table of contents & look for Traditional engines. I believe there are more & maybe in a diesel.

http://www.lionel.com/#

Hope this helps !

Thanks, John

[pbjwilson]

Well the GP-9'2 are close to scale but are a smaller prototype engine. Same with the FT's. Both look good with the more traditional size rolling stock. MTH has quite a few smaller engines in their RailKing line. F-3's, PA's, some more modern engines that I dont know the letters and numbers for. Heres a MTH Dash-8 that will operate on O-27 curves and not dwarf smaller rolling stock.

Heres a MTH SD-90 Mac. At 14 1/2in. it can go around O-27 curves. A scale version is aroun 18-20in.

[luther_stanton]

I have a true 1/48 scale Atlas O SW8 which would be close to if not actual Lionel's "Standard O".  Becuase it is also a "smaller" prototype engine as pbjwilson mentioned, it looks fine with traditional size.

Also look at the LionMaster series.  They are I believe 'Semi Scale'.  I have a J3 Hudson and it looks good with traditional size cars.  However, I think it is a little larger than traditional size, as I also have the Berk John mentioned and the Hudson looks big sitting next to it.

I also have a Lionel GP7 which looks good with traditional size. I have a set of Lionel F3s which, while not truly Standard O, do look a little large next to the traditional size cars, but it is nothing too noticable.  I would say the F's are borderline.

All the above are TMCC. 

- Luther

[lionelsoni]

Unless they have downsized the newer ones, Lionel F3s are about as close to 1/48 scale as you will find in the O-gauge world.  In my opinion, they look much too large pulling 2400-type streamliners.  I usually run an express car of intermediate scale to disguise the size difference a little.

[BlackJack]

seems like most of the TMCC lionel stuff is more likely to be scale. Occasionally they have had some 027 tmcc pieces.

I'd look for some smaller diesels, or diesel switchers, that are scale but not 18 or 20 inches long. Maybe the tmcc weaver baldwin switcher, or the lionel tmcc alco s2/s4 diesel switcher- i think they are only about 12 inches in length. I'd probably also recommend getting some scale or nonscale MTH rolling stock from the big dealer ads with blowout prices. The atlas o trainman series alco RS switcher with TMCC might be an option.

[jimhaleyscomet]

The best (and cheapest) way to get "traditional" sized command locomotives is to upgrade a set loco with http://www.electricrr.com/ or digital dynamics upgrade board.  Then add a sound car and the only thing missing is automatic couplers.  I think electricrr.com even sells complete Beeps with Command control and sound.

I did my first two beep command control upgrades (from electricrr.com) recently and it was a little work but otherwise very easy.  No soldering, just a bit of wire cutting and rerouting. 

Jim H

[jimhaleyscomet]

As to decide what is "scale", what is "standard" and what is "traditional" there are no hard and fast rules.

Typically "traditional" and 027 is compressed from scale in height and width and even more compressed in length.
Scale is usually 1:48 which matches up with the gauge of 027 track.
Semi-Scale is smaller than scale (similar to "traditional) but unlike traditional they compress all three axis (height, width, and length) the same amount. 

Some "traditional" stock made by other manufactures can be copies of Lionel Scale or semi scale items. 

Rail King (by MTH) is often traditional sized but not if marked "RailKing Scale".
Premier (by MTH) is usually (always?) scale.

Confused yet, because I am!

Jim H

[lionelsoni]

Actually, the O27 (and O31) track gauges are not to scale, except for the "General" locomotives and WARR trains, since the WARR used a 5-foot gauge.  (The General was re-gauged after the Civil War by moving its tires inboard 1 3/4 inches each.)

http://www.southernmuseum.org/exhibits.html

American O-scale modelers resolved the discrepancy between scale and gauge by narrowing the gauge, first to 1 3/16 inches ("Q" scale), then all the way to scale (Proto-48).  Europeans stuck with the original Maerklin gauge (1 1/4 inches or 32 millimeters) and adopted the 1/45 scale.  The British stopped at 1/43.5 because of their odd preference for expressing scales in millimeters per foot (7 millimeters in this case).  This last scale is the one that HO is half of--1/87.