Bending Gargraves

[palallin]

I'd like to hear from anyone who has tips on bending Gargraves track.

I've begun laying it, but the start has been very rough. I tried using a technique similar to the one outlined in CTT, but I had little success. The ties simply weren't willing to slip along the rails. I ended up moving each tie individually by hand. The result was broken ties, sore fingers, not-quite-even curvature, and waviness. I tried soldering two sections together to keep the joints from kinking, but the kinks were worse than when I simply cut-and-fit the pieces together individually.

Would putting some lube on the lower portion of the rails allow them to slide in the ties more easily (WD-40, for example)?

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Do not try to pre-bend or shape gargraves. Layout the center line for the curve. Try not to start or end a section of track at the beginning or end of a curve. Secure the first 3-4" of a section in the straight-a-way with three track screws (always pre-drill the holes for the screws, I kept a cordless screwdriver and a drill with me when installing gg). Start by gently forcing the center rail to align with the curve you drew on the table, use both hands. This means gently working the track along an 8 to 12 inch section. As you get the first 4 inches lined up, use the drill and screwdriver to tack that piece down. I usually use one screw for every 4-5 ties and alternate from one side of the center rail to the other for each screw. Go back to where you left off and start curving some more track. Keep an eye on the section next to where you last secured it. As it comes into alignment, fasten it down. Work back and forth until you have only 8" or so of track left. Use a straight edge to mark the track for a 90 degree cut. Use a 2 1/2" Dremel cut off wheel to slice the track and then attach the next section and resume the bending and tie down routine.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I always bend Gargraves to shape first. I've layed thousands of feet of it. If it is new track it should bend easily. If it's older track it may need help.

All of the track that that I have on my layout is recycled. Most is about 14 years old, and is still easy to bend. I do have some that is more than 20 years old, which is very difficult. What seems to have happened is the ties have dried out, and in some cases have almost rusted onto the rail.

The WD-40 idea is OK, but perhaps mineral spirits might be better. I've tried soaking a rag and wiping down the ties and rails, and they loosen up considerably.

It also helps to have a curved surface to bend against, but this only works if the ties slide freely.

[palallin]

Where I am laying it, I don't have any choice but to bend it ahead of time. I can't even attach them at the half-shaped point.

As Elliot suspects, these are older sections. How old, i do not know, but I do not doubt that the ties are dry.

chuckn: what size screws do you use? I'm going into cork, then laminated Masonite sub-roadbed, so they'll need to be long enough to go all the way through the cork, right?

[Big_Boy_4005]

Screws? A #4 x 1" should do the job going through cork. I only use 4 or 5 screws per section, and always pre drill with a counter sink bit. The ties are very easy to split even if you are careful.

A couple of years ago I discovered a new type of screw at Home Depot. It looks like a drywall screw, but has a different head. I've only found it in one size. It is called a "trim head" screw, and takes a #1 square drive. They work great, and almost dissappear.

[Anonymous]

1 inch number 4's. If they are flat headed, I also countersink them. Trim head screws have square or philip's heads and are meant to be used on molding. I use 4-5 screws on straights but I use one screw every 5-6 ties in curves. Never tired to put screws into masonite, only plywood or Homasote. If you are working in a tight area or one that is hard to reach, there is now sectional GG. It's more expensive but will probably save you a bunch of time and headaches. I'll use sectional on tighter curves like O-32 and consider it on O-42 because that's a lot of bending to do by hand. You can try spraying the track with WD-40 but if the wood has dried out too much, all yuo will wind up with is oily splintered ties :-(

[palallin]

The tightest curves are O48. I'm trying to take advantage of the "flexibility" of Gargraves to let the curves fit the space rather than hacking the space to fit the curves. The theory is good, anyway. I suppose I shouldn't have tried so hard to cut corners on expenses, but the track is really fine. For straights [;)] Maybe I could pick up some fresher sections for the curves.

Thanks for the screw size guidelines, guys.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I don't bend a lot of curves tighter than 072. Of course tighter curves are going to be more difficult. Fre***rack may be the best bet.

Chuck, that's way more screws than you need on curves.

[poppyl]

In my opinion, one of the major keys to success in bending GG is to not go for the entire bend in one step. I would suggest an external jig that would allow a couple of intermediate bends with the final bend on your benchwork. Be sure to loosen your ties before you bend because the geometry will change as the track is bent which can actually tighten up the ties forcing you to apply too much torque thus breaking them. Beyond that, I agree with everyone's advice.

Poppyl

[Roger Bielen]

I've used both methods for bending GG, templates cut for the most standard sizes I was using and in place where needed. I've bent it as tight as O-31. I found that after ballasting and everything has been thoroughly soaked with water/glue mix and dry that I was able to remove the majority of the screws. This helped reduce the noise transmitted to the plywood base via the screws. If it appears that the track wants to shift as you start to remove a screw, leave it in.

[Anonymous]

"Chuck, that's way more screws than you need on curves."

As Roger pointed out, you can go back and remove a lot of them after the curve is formed and ballasted.

[Anonymous]

The ties on GarGraves dry out fairly quickly and it makes bending difficult. I had a whole box of flex GG that I laid outside on some cheap poly film and, as recommended by GG, liberally sprayed the ties with WD- 40 at the rail-tie junction. I let the sections sun-dry, wiped them down to rid any excess and found the ties slid very easily on the rails. The Wd-40 odor is not detectabled on the layouts.

When installing, I lay out the centerline of track curves with a steel tape with holes drilled at the applicable radius points for marking various radi with a Sharpie when swinging the curve arc. [for example,drill the tape's 1" mark for a pivot point and the 37" mark for an 072 curve radi of 36"].

I never pre-bend flex track but bend it to the marked centerline as I install it.
[similar to Chuck's method]. I always leave the screws out of the trailing joint in curves until I have fastened screws every 6-9" in the leading 37" track section. Then I return to the trailing curve joint and place a block flat on the benchwork and against the tie ends, and ease the two ends of the track sections inward until the center rail perfectly aligns with the marked centerline. Then I install a screw in the predrilled second tie from the end of each trailing section and fasten--makes perfect curves at the joint..

When installing flex, the center and outer rail have to be driven up as you progress with bending the leading rails to align with the centerline. I use a 4 oz ballpeen hammer and block to drive up the rails. I do not drive them "jamb" tight because of the need for a slight gap in the center and outer rails when the aforementioned "easing" of the joint takes place. I then square off and cut the leading end.

Unless it involves a very tight curve arc [21" R for 042 or sharper], I remove all screws after ballasting. Fill the screw holes with filler and color them with black and dark brown Sharpies.

I use 1-1/4" screws to penetrate the 5/16" tie, 5/16" cork, and 1 /2" foam to enter the plywood base. I avoid small pilot holes and drill a hole the size of the #4 screw shank in the tie to start with.

[palallin]

OK, guys, here's an update. Over the weekend, I've gotten quite a bit of track laid. WD-40 helps, although a fair number of ties splinter when I drill them. The curves aren't perfectly smooth, but I am running tests over each new section when laid, and I'm working the big bugs out as I go. On the long straightaways in tunnels, I'm using K-line O27 long straghts to save on expense where the track cannot be seen.