Yet another begginner....

[Demon09]

Hello to everyone! I recently built a very basic layout and added some track kits and a new train for my lionel 0-27 gauge trains. (its kind of a poor start, but as a college student im very strapped for cash). i have some pictures online if anyone wants to see what ive done with it..... My question is in regard to the minimum diameter for trains operating on a layout. i have a figure 8 section that makes full turns, and a larger outer mainline that only makes half curves in the corners with straight sections inbetween.... im not really sure which trains can still navigate the turns, because many companies do make the o-27 trains, but does this mean that nothing but an 0-27 train will operate on this track? if i were to buy a train with an 0-31 minimum, do i need to switch to o-31 track as well? is there any way to modify an o-31 train to work these curves? ive tried asking at local hobby shops, but they only try to sell me new tracks or trains, and never answer the actual question...im also still picking up on a lot of the lingo, so maybe it was just lost in translation? im not sure....... but anything you can tell me about using these trains with this track will help! thanks to everyone in advance!

[mpzpw3]

A more difficult question than you might think! Yes, a lot of trains advertised as O-31 will operate on O-27 track. Most postwar style engines will have no problem negotiating the curves. The problem is they will all not clear the Lionel O-27 switch machine on turnouts. It sounds like you don't have any turnouts yet, so when you decide to get a few, you might want to consider K-line, as they have a much lower profile switch machine (the switch machine houses the mechanics that turns the turn out, either electrically, or manually.). I have a set of postwar 2343's which will clear a Lionel O-27 switch machine, but the 15 inch passenger cars will not.
I hate to say it, but your hobby shop may have a point about selling you a different track system. If you convert to O-31 track now, while you are starting out, you can avoid this problem all-together. If you like the profile (height) of O-27 track more than O-31 track, be aware that you can buy wider radius turns, and again, the K-line switches, which will also solve the problem. Gargraves also makes a O-42 switch that mates up perfectly with O-27 track, and the engine will clear the switch machine on that turnout without any problems. I hope you are not totally confused now...

[Demon09]

Unfortunately i do already have 2 lionel o-27 manual switches on the layout... before i understood that many of these companies parts were somewhat interchangable, i had my sense of brand loyalty and am using all lionel products, except for a new MTH railking zw-1000 (my original lionel controller broke on me)... the mainline feeds into a smaller figure 8 inside, the tracks connect through the switches..... the layout is already 4x6 feet, and ive added a few remote uncouplers as well, so i dont know if switching is still an option (again, my funds are unfortunately very limited)...... i have no problem if were to i buy a diesel that would only work on the mainline (i already have a few steam engines that work well on the layout, and am looking to add onto my diesel fleet) without using the crossovers, but is it still an issue of wheel clearence over the mainline portion that shares the switch box then? im using a lionel u36b for o-27, but there is a very limited availablity of different o-27 engines from what ive seen (many are just repaints of the u36b).... ive had my eye on a few of the larger diesels marked o-31... later on as i build up i considered adding tracks with a larger radius, but would still most likely be the o-27 height..... so in a nutshell, the o-31 diesels will work on o-27 track, and manuver the tight turns (in some cases) but will have difficulty navigating the switch boxes? are there any suggested brands or model types of diesels that youve had good experiences with on o-27s?

i am slowly starting to pick things up as i go along (and i thank everyone for having patience, as im probably repeating myself like crazy, or misunderstanding things) so i think im kind of starting to understand that its not soo much to do with the radius, but more with accesory track parts.....

[thor]

The problem(s) are caused by the fact that the loco and rolling stock bodies will swing wide on tight curves, so they shouldnt be a problem on a turnout on the mainline, they'll run through that straight part okay. Well then theres the second problem of the difference in rail height! Basically the only real answer is "suck it and see!".

Go to the hobby shop/vendor if you want to buy something, take a couple of pieces of the track and test it out first or get a sale or return deal and test and return if need be. Chances are more often than not you want have a problem and anyway they're not insurmountable if they do show up.

It would only be a disaster if you'd built a monster 0-27 layout, no expense spared only THEN to discover that trains were derailing left and right!

This question had been asked and answered quite a few times, so if you gather up a few of those replies and their suggested fixes, you should have one within your budget and/or your outlook about brand loyalty.

I mean I havent tried this myself but if I really was determined to use Lionels 0-27 turnouts, I'd look at a way of removing the operating mechanism and replacing it with either something more remote or below the surface of the board.

[jimhaleyscomet]

The other thing you might want to avoid (does not sound like you have it yet) is S curves in 027. Plus putting a straight before each switch connection seems to help.

I think you are fine with 027. You can always have a larger radius outside loop and keep any large engines on that loop.

Another option is too stay away from the longer passenger cars and scale engines even though only a few will have problems. You mentioned that funds are limited...and the smaller 027 engines (docksider, plymouth swither, beeps, Thomas the tank) and traditional rolling stock are much more affordable and still look fine on 027.

Jim H

[darianj]

Hey Demon[#welcome]
I'm a newbie too; also setting up my first layout. Wouldn't mind looking at your pics. Let us know where they are.

Darian

[mpzpw3]

I think you will be okay with O-27 track. You can always consider replacing your switches with the K-line's, and using the Lionel ones for a siding.
As for engines, the Lionel and Williams geeps will clear the switch machines, along with quite a few others. If your hobby shop can't answer your questions about wether they will clear, you can always ask here before you buy, as someone will probably know.

[Demon09]

The photos of my layout can be found at http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sltbass77/album?.dir=7f74&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos let me know if it doesnt work, i can e mail a link instead......

As i said the layout is very very basic..... the buildings are just left over "after christmas quarter specials" from local retailers..... nothing is of scale, and definately not permanent..... I hope to make it look more realistic as i get the hang of the artistic aspects of making it realistic, maybe adding in some bridges or tunnels.... i was even considering forming a mountain in the corner of the layout out of cardboard and foam...... as far as adding track in the future, i was going to add on another sheet of plywood to one of the sides and maybe create some dead end sidings, or even a small rail yard...... elevated trusses possibly..... i'm open to any suggestions anyone can see in the photos too.....

As far as my original question, thanks to everyone for your input! in the future when i look to expand my fleet, ill make sure to keep all of this in mind (checking it on tracks in the store, setting up a return agreement, switching to k-line track switches, checking with the experts on certain models....)...... im just glad theres an online community like this, because its not exactly a large hobby interest for most college students, and so far im the only person my age i know of in this area doing so... that really leaves me with few people to discuss the hobby with...... unfortunately my local hobby shop owner is retiring, so i will be having to drive several miles to go to shops from now on (by the way, all his merchandise is 20% off if anyone is in the chicago area! he has some interesting items, for the most part....)..... but the hobby is definately worth the drive!

[Anonymous]

Interesting name demon....

But anyways, another fellow college student here... I like your layout, one thing that i would recommend is maybe going for some postwar basic loco's and running stock.

They all pretty much all run on 027 and can be found for alot cheaper than new lionel...

I currently have a nice little layout in my parents basement with 8 differnt trains running at the same time..

[Demon09]

Yeah, im a depaul student, so i figured id go with the demon.......

Any specific reccomendations, because right now im running all modern stuff that has been given to me over the years (except for the u36b that i picked up a few weeks ago)..... all the running stock is pretty much starter set or second hand store pick ups....

You dont have any pics of your layout by chance, do you? right now i dont have isolated tracks, and the steam loco's dont seem to run right with the diesel on the mainline (i only have one power connector, maybe this is the culprit for that one?).......... id like to see how you have 8 separate sections operating like that, because im still trying to figure out an easy way to use 2...... not to mention im always interested in seeing other's layouts to inspire my future creations.....

[Anonymous]

well i cheat and have 8 different loops... on each loop, i have about 4-5 different connections... instead of using lockon's, i solder each wire on independently. this allows this loco to run pretty consistently. Sometimes i'll just set them all to run, and watch them.


check out www.postwarlionel.com and ebay. The first site is good for identifying locomotives and ebay is good to find deals...
There's some nice locomotives... that go for 25-30$ and will run flawlessy...

[Dave Farquhar]

You have a very nice start on that layout. I do have a suggestion. That outer loop is large enough that it looks like you could replace your curves with a wider radius. If you were to put wider track on that radius (both Lionel and K-Line make O42 and O54 track that's compatible with O27), then you'd be able to run O-31 and even some scale-sized stuff if you were inclined in the future. You'd need 12 O42 curves to make a loop, and you'd probably be able to just pull the curves and one straight from each end and it'd fit. It'd be about a $25 upgrade, and I think you'd be happier with it.

At some point, dropping K-Line O42 switches in place of your O27 switches would give you more leeway on what you run, but that's an upgrade you can put off. I built my layout on a budget, using O27 straights (I had a ton of them from when my Dad was a kid) and wider-radius curves, but my switches are almost all O27.

There's nothing wrong with starter set-type rolling stock. At least 90% of what I have falls into that category. I'm happy with what I can do with it. I'd rather have starter set trains running through a nice-looking layout than scale stuff running on bare plywood. If you're happy with what you're able to do with your track plan, I'd recommend spending your time, energy and money on getting buildings and scenery that you're happy with on the layout. Making buildings and scenery and hunting down vehicles and figures in unexpected places are a big part of the fun.

[Demon09]

another thing i wondered about...... i recently added uncoupling tracks, but only a few of my cars have the metal operating couplers..... the others are older cars, and i dont know if the springs stopped working, or if they werent operating couplers to begin with (some are solid plastic, so obviously wont open, but others open when they are pulled, but do not spring open any more)..... is there any way to replace a coupler or fix it to spring open when the plastic lever arm is moved?.......... also, a few operating couplers are missing the metal discs on the lever arm, is there some way i could attach a washer to the plastic to give it the magnetic properties?

[Anonymous]

demon09,

since you are new, you don't know what these trains have been doing for the last 50 years. you need a trainshow. make a list of what you want to do, find one, and take some money.

you'll be looking for that junkbox full of parts that can repair and upgrade everything you have. hold out for the one they pay you to take away. somebody will sell you a large box of track for five dollars and think they got the best of the deal.

before they made those brown switch machines, there was the black ones that did not have anything in the way for longer cars (i paid 5 bucks each for mine).

take it slow, and make what you got work. as long as you have more time than money; make good use of it. once you get a feeling for what's going on; then open your wallet.

your layout looks fine. it's going to be hard to improve it.

[darianj]

Nice pics...like what you've done so far.

[lionelsoni]

The plastic operating couplers used a thin rod of plastic case as part of the knuckle as a spring. These are notorious for breaking off or simply losing their shape. The knuckle can be replaced; but the only permanent cure I know is to put in a metal spring, which requires some carving on the plastic knuckle to make room for it.k

Lionel actually used thumbtacks for the metal armatures after they realized that their design was virtually identical to a thumbtack. You might see whether you can find a thumbtack that would fit.

[thor]

Nice pictures, the eye level ones are particularly convincing, they really make the loco look massive which is O gauges single greatest charm IMHO. Its a nice layout for the space available.

[cnw1995]

Nicely done. I was worried about the track on the very edge of your board if something would derail. I have mostly 027 track - all 027 curves. They limit the engines you can run but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I also work at DePaul.

[ED WHITFORD]

Hi. Take a look at some of the older lionel item that are made for the 027 range you can find a lot of nice things out there that you could use & function properly.
If funds are a problem look for things that need a little tlc. for example i just got a 671 turbin with the 2466W tender (whistel, sorry ) for $85.00 not running. brought it home tore it down replaced light bulb, a couple of wires cleaned the armetures & brushes & lubed everything up & it works fine, even the old air whistle works. Not saying you are going to find things like this every day but, if you are just starting out & don't want to spend a lot of money look for things like this. The more tech things in a item the more it will cost. Keep things simple.

Figure out if you want to be a collector, operator or a little bit of both ( that's where i fall into) Go to some train shows & look under the table some times you can find some nice things there that only need a little work.I know that is where we but some things that we just need to do away with or have had for a bit of time. Start small & work your way up.

If you have any switches or crossovers you are further along than us & we have had our layouts for the last 30 years & still just love turning them on & watching the go. Some day i might add some other track.

Take care & most importantly just have fun with it.

[Demon09]

[:D] Very good mood now..... running the engines across the layout just puts me in such an ambient dream state.... hahaha.....

except i cant seem to get my 2 steam engines to run at even speeds at the same time on separate loops from one controller...... they probably need some TLC maintenance (the one's gears are louder than all hell-and theres a small bit of sparking on the wheels im starting to get worried about) but theyre single motor each, but the one runs pretty smoothly while the other struggles along..........

im considering ballasting the tracks too, more for looks.... im think i might just paint some grey underneath for now, to offset the huge green span of table, until i figure out what everyone does with this 3 part water 1 part glue with a dash of dish soap deallie, as well as figuring out which of the many kinds i can use........

everyone here has been incredibly helpful, and ive been impressed with many of the layouts ive seen...... i cant wait until i can consider myself an old pro such as some of yourselves! thanks again! ill be keeping up to date with more of the topics in the forum as well........

[Dave Farquhar]

Here's an easy solution for the engine that's sparking. Wipe down the rollers with rubbing alcohol until they shine. Then, flip the loco over, and connect a wire from your transformer to the roller (use an alligator clip or loop the wire around it somehow), then connect another wire from the transformer to the drawbar or one of the trucks on the loco. The idea is to get the motor to run without touching the wheels. Turn on the power. You may have to experiment a little to find a place for the wires that will get the motor running.

Got it running? Good. Take a cotton swab, dip it in rubbing alcohol, and touch it to one of the wheels. Watch it turn dark from all the crud it cleans off. Get a new swab, and repeat until the swabs stay clean. Do this for each wheel. Once you've cleaned the wheels in this manner, that will almost completely eliminate the sparks, and will make the locomotive run smoother, since it's getting better power.

The loco may need a lube job too, but most old trains definitely need the driver wheels cleaned. I've taken some that didn't run, and cleaning the wheels was literally all it took to get them running again.

[Demon09]

i cleaned the wheels and the sparking stopped immediately! good call!

[jimhaleyscomet]

Demon,

I get two trains to run at the same speed by loading up the fast one with heavy slow rolling cars (old rolling stock) and using fewer newer easy rolling cars on the slower one. Then I usually can adjust the transformer just right to make them go the same speed (usually pretty slow).

Jim H