2343 Help....rough running to the rear

[Anonymous]

Hello to all.
The 2343 F 3 I have runs well in reverse, and very herky jerky in forward motion......front of the cab moving foward. I've read a little via the internet and have come upon an article referencing an armature problem.....Could this be the case or perhaps something else, ie something easy to fix first before replacing motors etc. I certainly love the engine as it was a gift from my father and wish it would run forward as it does in reverse.
That's all for now and thanks in advance.

[Blueberryhill RR]

[#welcome]to the Forum.
I am not an expert on this. I would check the gears and grease them.
Then, I would run in upside down to view the wheels turning.
If that didn't show anything, I'd consult an expert.
There are a few good ones on this Forum.
Chuck

[lionelsoni]

I would first try to isolate the problem to one truck or the other. Try running it lifted off the track, perhaps with a little finger friction on the wheels, to see which truck hesitates.

It could be mechanical. The worm has a thrust bearing at each end. The rear one is the one that is used going forward. The bearing is a ball inside a metal block. If that is missing or somehow gone bad, it will affect only forward motion. See Olsen's: http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/f3-2.pdf

[Anonymous]

Probably from being run in one direction more than the other. Not only are the commutator slots probably dirty,the brushes are worn and the brush holders may be dirty as well. The motors use bronze sleeve and ball thrust bearings and are virtually indestructable. If carefull and patient , and of course you have the correct tools, you can easily take it apart and clean/lube it up. You can also take it to a local hobby shop, they will probably charge you 50-100 bucks to go through it (which in reality is probably a fair price for the amount of time and skill involved). If you do choose to take it apart yourself, make sure you have a clean dedicated area and some cups to put the small parts in. Many would suggest you purchace a repair guide as well (good advise).

I have fixed plenty of motors that were literally frozen with rust and or gunk. Usualkly you can make them work and pretty well to boot.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all, not sure if my last reply made it.....I have a work space and some small tools that will do the job. Thanks again and I'll report back with a verdict.
Thanks again.

[daan]

My guess is that the brushes are getting too short. This will block the motors in the beginning only in one direction. A mechanical problem also produces a lot of noise (more noise than the loco's already make..)
It could also be that one of the pinion wheels in the gears behind the motor are loose. I had that with my 2353, those gears are on a riveted axle and purely there to redirect the motion to the lower worm axle. If they rock too much back and forth they hit the casting of the motor.
It also can be that the mechanical e-unit is hesitating in one direction, so I would check it too to see if all the fingers are touching the drum. Cleaning it with a bit of electrocleaner also makes miracles possible.
If you want to see one apart, click on my "web"-icon below and on my homepage, look for "motoronderhoud/ enginemaintenance". I have photo's and text there as a quick guide to dismantle an F3 with horizontal motors.
Feel free to ask questions.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like several of the above ideas could hold the key. I tend to favor a problem that is caused by the wear in the forward direction far exceeding that in reverse; so, as an interim measure, why not put the locomotive on the track such that the dummy unit is in front and run the powered unit in "reverse." Some operators claim that many A-A units actually run better this way, and it does tend to distribute the wear evenly.

george

[Anonymous]

Well I happy to report some improvement after cleaning. The brushes appear to be fine, even wear and they are not too short. The face of the commutator is worn, but bright. I notied a difference in wear between the front and rear. The commutator at the front is more worn. There is a larger space slighlty past the visible shining area of the face, perhaps a fraction of a mm or so. The performance increased after small break in period and is les noticeable at greater use of power. I also found that the outer hull of the front motor was warmer to the touch than the rear which appears to be normal, therefore a poorer use of electricity/ conductivity, I would guess. I bet a new one would solve completely. However I could just run it backwards as mentioned above as well.
Thank you all for replying, I look foward to "commutating" to you all in the future.

[lionelsoni]

Before buying a new motor, try swapping the motors you have. If the trouble doesn't follow the motor, a new motor won't help. But how sure are you that the trouble is in the front? Have you run it blocked up off the track?

[Anonymous]

This is a stretch, but check and see if you have more axial movement in the armature shaft on the worn motor. If to much play, you might try some shims as suggested in the OEM manual.

Further, if you know anyone with a smallish lath, you could pull the armature and take a tiny skim cut on the commutator face to clean it up. This would also help but is a drastic measure.

[lionelsoni]

A bad thrust bearing in a vertical motor often shows itself as poor running in one direction, because the worm is the motor shaft. In normal operation, the motor shaft is pushing hard against one of the thrust bearings.

In a horizontal motor, the motor drives spur gears, which produce no particular thrust. Instead, the worm is in the truck. That is why I suggested looking at the thrust bearings there, as a likely cause of poor running in one direction only.

[Anonymous]

Motor action make the armature thrust as well. Examine a few old sidewinders for comparison;)