2035 report

[Anonymous]

Hello to all.

I am pleased to announce that the 2035 arrived Friday. As I first looked at all the pices and shnibbles of K-4 that was left, I knew it would need a good teardown, and ELC (extreme loving care).[;)]

As I first inpected it, I found it was quite (an understatement) dirty. [:0] I first disconnected and desoldered all of the wires, and then took off the brushplate and bearing plate, which held the armature.
So then I took my handy dandy electric motor cleaner, and layed on the spray. I noticed a puddle of BLACK liquid(the contact cleaner with all the junk in it) accumulating on my wash bin. I also cleaned and polished the commutator.

After all of the cleaning was done, I cleaned and reconnected the E-unit. I also lubed all gears and bearings. Then I tested the motor on my layout.The complete rewire was succesful, the eunit cycled, and the motor cycled also properly. But when I started to get going, the motor ( probably the gears) growled fiecly. I had to turn the reostat to full to get it to a good cruising speed.

[Blueberryhill RR]

[:)]Jerry, sounds like you have a start. I will be awaiting the next episode.
This drama is gonna be interesting. Good luck.
Chuck

[ChiefEagles]

Good lubing on those gears. They may be running out of alignment. Be sure the end plates are not worn where the armature shaft goes through. I worked on one for my Father-in-law [a basket case he bought at a flea market]. Lubed, ran, lubed, ran and lubed. The more I lubed and ran it the more it freed up. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Thats good Jerry. Keep up the good work and don't let a few old sticks in the mud discourage you.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Well Jerry, I'm glad to hear that the package arrived. I told you it wasn't pretty. That black stuff may have been a set of old brushes. That growl interests me, was there a kind of high pitched squeel associated with it?

Lubricating toy trains is kind of tricky, especially around the motor. Too little, and you get noise and wear. Too much, and you get a mess that doesn't run right, and you have to go back and clean up.

To my critics: let me remind you, that I fully support Jerry's love of trains. It is just the business part that I find imprudent given the circumstances.

[Jumijo]

Jerry,

Please keep us posted on this project!

Jim

[Anonymous]

Well, after a few hours of testing and inspecting it. I found The the double reduction gear(RED) was sinking in to the frame when I would turn the motor manually !!! So I lifted it up, and found that it had cut a circular groove about 3/64 in! [:O]I can now see why the motor was having trouble moving. Im trying to figure out how i could correct that gap.

Also, the intermidiate gear (GREEN) was worn down so that the teeth on it were only about 1/16 wide. This caused one of the pairs of wheels (BLUE) to come out of sync with the rest of the geartrain. this then caused the main side rod to pinch the opposite wheel's bolts , and then the motor would jam.

Note, this is not my pic.

Im trying to figure out how to correct all of this. I can get a new intermediate gear, but what to do about that groove....[%-)]

[spankybird]

Jerry, either you need a new side mounting piece or maybe whole new frame or you could drill out the current hole larger and put in a brass bushing. The hard part of the bushing is getting it in the correct postion. This may require some work on a bridgeport.

[Anonymous]

I realize it's not a lot of space to work with, but would it be possible to insert a small washer into the groove?

Unless you have the ability to pull drivers, you could always cut the washer in half and set it with a little ACC.

Just an idea. Not sure how plausible it is.

Fred

[jimhaleyscomet]

Thank you for the report Jerry. Keep us informed!

Jim H

[wrmcclellan]

Jerry,

For the undercut gear, find a brass washer about the same diameter as the shaft the gear resides on. Cut a slot into the washer so it can "snap" onto the shaft much like a "c" clip. Push it under the gear with a metal shim. This should space the gear away from the frame.

I have used this trick to recenter worn axle gears to worm drive gears in 726's and other similarly geared locos.

Almost forgot - you can file the brass washer to the thickness you need. And if the washer is not quite right when you put it on, use the shim to push it back off and rework it.

I also meant to acknowledge Fred's input above which is similar to mine. Fred - welcome to the forum!

Keep up the good work!
Roy

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the input guys!! The brass washer sounds very feasable, and it makes perfect sense!

I may have to shelf the 2035 for a little bit untill I can get a wheel puller.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Jerry, I agree with Fred and Roy about putting some kind of shim in there. What about one of those horseshoe retaining washers you said you had? The trick will be getting it to stay.

Pulling the wheel would make that aspect easier, but opens up a whole new can of worms. If you can get by without pulling it, do it.

Getting a wheel off isn't usually that big of a deal, though some can be difficult, especially if they are coming off for the first time since they were put on at the factory.

When you do get your puller, be careful. It is possible to break the tip off the the puller's jaw, or chip or even break the wheel. If the wheel doesn't start to move right after the slack is out of the puller, don't apply too much pressure. A very light tap with a hammer on the handle of the puller, followed by a quarter turn, should get it moving. If not, repeat until it does.

Like I said, off isn't the hard part, on is. Now, there is some amount of precision involved, especially with steam engines. They need to have their wheels "quartered", which for our purposes means perfectly lined up on both sides, so the drive rods don't bind. On a real steam engine, the wheels are offset 90 degrees from one side to the other, so the cylinders work in an alternating fashion.

This is one of the major functions of the wheel cups that you put in the press. Remember, that the cups only quarter that axel, you have to have the gears mesh right down to the tooth, so all the wheels line up on each side. Overlook this part, and you'll have to do a partial pull, realign, and press again. Too many repeats, and it is possible to wear out the hole in the wheel, as the wheel is softer material than the axel.

Then all wheels need to be in gauge.

I realize you don't have the tools for wheel work yet, but I thought I would share my experience in this area, in the hopes of saving a little potential trouble when you do get them.

Honestly, I didn't think it was going to need any when I chose it. I hadn't looked at it since it was retired almost 13 years ago. I just made sure it was complete, and boxed it up.

Keep plugging away at it, I think you're doing great.

[ben10ben]

As an aside to pulling the wheel...
The 2035 has sintered iron wheels that will almost always have to be replaced after they're pulled or they won't hold securely. On a spur geared engine such as this one, that could very well mean the gears not meshing or one of the wheels being thrown out of quarter. If you do have to pull a sintered wheel, it's best to order a replacement ahead of time. Keep in mind, too, that if you have to pull a flanged wheel, the blind center driver also has to come off and will need to be replaced.

[lionelsoni]

I haven't had trouble with wheels' getting loose after they've been pulled. I have had difficulty with matching the quartering between axles. What really matters is that the error in quartering be the same from axle to axle. Of course, perfect quartering works because the error is the same--zero--on each axle. But if, for example, the quartering is 5 degrees off on one axle, it had better be 5 degrees off on all of them. This can be a problem if you try to replace a wheel on one axle only. The best situation is to be able to get the original wheel back on with the axle splines in the same grooves--and of course not loose on the axle!

I have had success with loose car wheels (right out of the MTH box!) by very slightly upsetting the axle splines before putting the wheels back on.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Ben, I was thinking about that part of having to pull the center wheel first. I know there are some models where the back side of blind center wheel is tapered, so it can over lap the flanged drivers, but the 2035 is not one of those models. It is actually possible to remove a flanged driver seperately.

The only post war models I could find that had wheels like that were the Berks, the Turbines, and the GG-1. Of course the GG-1 not being a steam engine, makes quartering unnecessary. I couldn't find any 6 driver steamers like that.

Here's a tip that might help in the event you need to do a freehand alignment. It will work with the press and cups too.

Before pulling the wheel, make alignment reference marks on the wheel being pulled and the wheel next to it (3 and 9 oclock). This will help you find the exact spline position used originally. This needs to be done on both sides. Like Bob said, if you are off by a single spline, there is a good chance the side rods will bind. Then you have to do it again.

[Jumijo]

Jerry,

You could avoid the whole issue of wheel pulling/not having a puller, by getting a new motor and frame off an auction site. I see auctions for them all the time. It's not admitting defeat. It's a cost-effective, timely repair alternative to what you're up against. Sintered iron wheels need to be replaced, quartered, gauged, etc. I know pulling the wheel(s) would be good experience. But there are other options. Time is money. That's all I'm saying.

I took a book out of the library several months ago on toy train repair. The author stated that he made a home-made wheel puller from common tools found at the hardware store very inexpensively. If not mistaken, it was a modified automotive battery terminal puller. See link below:

http://www.matson.com.au/puller.html

Jim