Cosmetic restorations?

[Dr. John]

I enjoy collecting and operating simple, rugged, post-war equipment. Since my hobby budget is limited, I tend to buy items that are in good mechanical shape but may be a little worn in the face - scratched, dinged, faded and dusty. I usually do not bother with repainting or re-decalling equipment. I give them a good cleaning and oiling and turn them loose!

If you buy used equipment, do you bother with cosmetic restorations?

[Anonymous]

John, funny you ask. I was just out repainting my 2026 today!!!

With these results from what I just repainted, I would definetly paint more locos if I got them. Im using Testors Model Masters Flat Black. Almost dead on too the original paint.

Jerry

[Dave Farquhar]

It depends on what it is. I touched up a common postwar gondola over the weekend. The paint wasn't a dead-on match but it was close enough to make it look a lot better than it did with all of the dings. It was worth 10 bucks as it was, and it's probably worth 10 bucks now but it looks better. And the way it's "restored," any idiot can tell it's not original.

I'll replace missing parts, preferably with originals from worse-condition pieces. Since a lot of what I like is lithographed, there isn't a lot I can do for lithographed pieces. But I'll clean up or replace rusted or damaged wheels and couplers, stuff like that.

Generally speaking, the older the piece is, the less likely I am to touch the paint or anything like that.

[tjsprague]

A sharpie marker on postwar steamers is great way to cover the paint chips. I don't bother much with rolling stock and such. Kind of gives it a little personality.

Tim

[Sturgeon-Phish]

I too will buy less than perfect and restore. Most recently a 785 coaling station. I've done 771 stockyard a 755 talking station 596 water tower and numerous cars and locos. Being more "operator" than "collector", running restored items causes less stress when there is a derail!

[Jumijo]

I've been wrestling with this issue myself of late. I purchased a low-end post-war steamer a few weeks back that has 53 years worth of chips in the paint. It also came with a tender and a caboose. The tender and caboose look like new after a simple washing. The light brown Lionel Lines lettering on the sides of the tender are now bold white. The plastic trucks on the tender had some funky white covering on them, something I've seen a few times before on pieces of that era, so I cleaned that off with a toothbrush. The loco was treated to a washing, but to date I have not painted it. I'm torn between making the loco look new and keeping the patina the last 53 years have given it. While at a train show last weekend, I saw a loco shell (same number) on sale for $10. I might contact the seller and purchase the shell, paint and re-number it, and plop that on the loco's motor, keeping mine in original condition.

The current issue of CTT has an article on re-painting a 2025. I was disappointed in that article for the following reasons; The author altered the loco's running gear and boiler, along with a different bell and hand rails. The new paint scheme is not restorative. It's a completely new look with new colors. Lastly, I can't decide whether the author purposely "aged" the loco with chips and rub marks or if it was incidental or if the paint is even chipped. The photos don't clearly show that, but to my eye, the loco and tender look "aged". I'm not knocking the author. I just don't like what he did.

I've restored die-cast toy cars and have discovered that good prep work makes for a great paint job. After repairing any imperfections in the casting, I prime then paint the metal. When it's dry to the touch, I bake the paint onto the metal in an electric oven set at 150 deg for a half hour. The paint bonds much better after baking and is less prone to chip. I used these techniques on the suspension parts of an old car I restored years ago and the paint (Krylon) wore like iron.

Jerry, I'd like to see photos of your repainted 2026. Would you please post some.

Jim

[ChiefEagles]

Touch them up or repaint on regular stuff. High end collectables, don't touch unless basketcase [then it is not high end].

[brianel027]

Well as I've said many times, I've always bought stuff that was cheap and many times was not in thhe best of condition. If it's possible for me to "restore" the piece and I would like it that way, I'll do that. There is though, a big difference between "restore" and "repaint." And "alteration" for that matter.

The vast majority of my stuff is repaints. I wasn't buying collectibles to begin with. And the few pieces I've bought in the past that were possibly collectible (from a monetary viewpoint) were not in the condition that they were in.

Sometimes a piece will just bother me. Like my K-Line NYC Alco FA... the colors were wrong. I've poured through books on the NYC and the two tones of gray on the K-Line loco were not right. So I carefully made a paint mask for the lightning stripe part of the engine and painted the rest of the loco black. I did some decaling and it was set to go. And I have to admit, I like it much more now.

Or my Lionel D&RG Waffle Box Car. As was it looked a little boring. It's also not fully opaque, which becomes obvious when a door is open on one side of the car. So I masked the outside, and primed the inside of the car. The I made another paint mask and did the roof of the car metalic silver. Then I glossed the car to add some additional decals, like adding a full color ACI plate over the black outline one that was on the car already. These 2 examples are alterations. It's still the original paint scheme, but I've made changes to it.

What's neat about this hobby is that everybody has their own approach. On one hand, we now have more variety of products available to us than ever before from more companies than ever before. With eBay, finding unusual or used products is now easier than ever. Just because I don't model will full scale proportions though, doesn't mean that I don't want good looking trains in road names that I like. If I did have the room and the money to have bought more full scale trains, I know I could find more trains I want without having to repaint them. I'm limited to 027 track and so I'm working with my limitations.

When I realized years ago I had the talent and ability to do first rate quality repainting, the floodgates opened. I realized the companies that were making trains in the sizes I wanted, were stuck firmly in the past as far as road names go. So I figured I could wait or I could do it myself. And I'm glad I took the second option, otherwise I'd still be waiting.

[laz 57]

I have taken common tank cars and repainted them with Krylon Fusion paint. This works great on plastic cause it fuses into the plastic and will not lift.
I have then gotten decals of my favorite beverage, teams, groups,and adhered to the car. Cheap and easy fix. Makes a brand new car for you.
laz57

[Jumijo]

What monetary ramifications/benefits come with restoring locos and other pieces? Is a restored piece more or less valuable than it was before the restoration? I'm not talking about valuable pieces to begin with, but ordinary post-war rolling stock and 0-27 locos. Is a cosmetically restored to like-new condition 2025 for instance more valuable than one that's play worn with chipped paint?

Jim

[Anonymous]

Well, I did take some pictures of the 2026. I still have a "old fashioned" camera yet, so it might be a while. Today Im going to paint the driver's rims white, and the cab window frames red. I will take a few pics of that as well.

[brianel027]

jaabat, to answer your question (from my experience and point of view), it depends on two things:
1) Who is offering to buy the piece and what are they offering?
2) What is your cost towards the restoration in materials, parts and TIME?

In the past I've had people offer me money at shows for pieces I've either restored or completely redone. Sometimes the offers are an insult. Other times the offers are worth considering. Any one who has shopped around for prices on restoration and/or repainting knows that it isn't necessarily cheap.

From first hand experience I can tell you a lot of time goes into redoing or restoring something, especially if you are going to do the job right: Paint needs the proper time to dry, decals too need attention and drying time. Paint masks even take more time to do properly and to do them well. And the more colors on one piece, the more complicated it gets and the more time and effort goes into it. There's gloss coats and dull coats. Not to mention the time to prep the piece for restoration or repainting.

I get very attached to the pieces I've put my own time into. It's far easier for me to sell something I haven't done anything to, than something I've put time and effort into. In the past I have sold a couple of things that I've repainted and today I wi***hat I hadn't.

Of course market reality and my personal feelings are two different things. On most my custom pieces, you simply could not offer me enough money for me to willingly want to part with them. On the other hand, no one is going to spend the money I'd like to get for a redone, altered and modified K-Line S-2... regardless of how much better I made it or how many paint masks it took to make the piece.

The other factor, especially on scale sized items, is that something that is a unique custom paint job today in an unusual roadname could very well be in some company's next catalog. Since so much new product seems to be coming out these days, especially on the scale side of the spectrum. In my case, since the items I like are traditionally sized, I don't have too much to worry about.... the train companies would have to all work long and hard to cover the ground I've covered as far as non-scale train items go. Guess my tastes are pretty much on the outside of what the market shows is popular these days.

In general though, I'd say the financial value of a restored item depends on how cheaply the owner got the item and his cost to restore it - and then finding the right buyer who appreciates the effort and work and wants to own the piece.

[philo426]

It depends on the condition and collectabilty of the item in question.About two years ago I picked-up 2 Lionel Burlington GP-7 shells that were not in collectible condition.In fact one of the shells had a battery-acid deformity that required me to cut-out the bad parts and replace them with .80 styrene panels.I then repainted one in the Conrail blue scheme ,finished with a Walthers decalset.I painted the other one red&white for my ownGS&O(Gulf,Southern and Ohio) and used vinyl letters over the white base coat to create the lettering.They both came out quite well.I will not hesitate to repaint a postwar diesel if the paint and decals are heavily worn.Of course if the loco is in VG or better condition I may leave it as it is if I find it attractive.The choice is yours.

[ezmike]

 I've read the entire thread and have just two questions.

First some background info. I have a 2036 from my youth with the usual assorted chips and scratches. I wanted to cover up some of them so I used Testors flat black. However, the painted spots looked duller than the rest of the body. I then tried Testors gloss black. It makes it look like new but looks shiner than it did. What is the right finish? Are these locos flat or gloss? (I didn't paint the catcher, nose or box near the rods)

Second question, if I wanted to re-do it do you suggest stripping it down or re-paint over existing paint/finish?

Or am I making more of this than necessary?

Suggestions or guidance would be appreciated.

[cnw1995]

I'm inconsistent about this. I'll track down a new pantograph for my 520 yet run my 80 year old 248 and coaches with flaking paint and squeaky wheels.  Usually, if I'm being honest with myself, I leave well enough alone because i don't trust my skill to make it better rather than worse.

[martinden]

ezmike: Using the little bottles of Testor's, mix the flat and the gloss about 50-50. In my experience, the exact mix isn't critical, though you might find differently.

When only a small amount is needed, I just use a toothpick to drip some drops onto a piece of aluminum foil, then stir them together. Use a brush (or a Q-tip) to apply to the edges of the running board, window ledges on the cab, etc. Large areas of flat surfaces (like big chips on the boiler or the roof of the cab) require a more sophisticated technique to get a really good result, but if you just want to cover up the scratches, it's not hard at all, even with this low-tech approach.

[Sturgeon-Phish]

A blanket answer would be oversimplification.  A lot depends on what you want and your expectations.  This is the classic operator  or collector and which side of the fence you lean on.  I personally do not consider resale of my pieces.  With this in mind, I do with them pretty much as I want.  If resale is an issue, the decision become much more complicated.  Original finish with blemishes is worth more to some than an excellent restoration. 

Jim 

[philo426]

Yep If it's beat I will re-paint it and re-decal it to suit my preferences.I am glad that Microscale offers such diverse roadnames and the quality of the decals is top notch.

[Anonymous]

I love to re-do my old trains. For me that is part of the fun.

New side rods,paint,chimney ring,headlightlens,front truck wheels and tender decal. All from Olsens

May make it worth less, but they're my toys, so who cares!

[Roger Bielen]

I've had good luck with repainting and matching current Lionel black using American Accents Canyon Black with a clear overspray of Model Master Semi-gloss laquer.

[BDT in Minnesota]

I have quite a few locomotives that I could never force myself to alter..They are original and are a true testimony to my love of trains, and that of the previous owners....On the next track sit some junkers...locos with bent cab roofs, damaged cowcatchers, and the like...Why did I buy the junkers?? Well, a hack saw, a file and who knows what else awaits these locos...I plan on cropping some cowcatchers and putting couplers on front for double heading...Some of the damaged cabs will become enclosed cabs, and some boilers will be lengthed to make Pacifics out of 2-6-4s.....All my locos will get tether wires from the loco to the tender trucks to improve or make it possible to run on Gargraves track...I like handrails, and plan on adding them to most of the locos...To me, this is part of the hobby...I am thrilled to hear that I don't stand alone on my thoughts....Trains are a form of art to some people...There is plenty of room for us...As far as a nice straight locomotive that needs a paint job-yep-strip it down and repaint it...restoration paint jobs look better than bare metal..As far as a custom paint job on that same loco??/why not?  If the paint is not going to be original, why not paint it different than the other jillions of it's siblings....And give the poor thing it's own personal number while you're at it..

[LL675]

I love to re-do my old trains. For me that is part of the fun.

New side rods,paint,chimney ring,headlightlens,front truck wheels and tender decal. All from Olsens

May make it worth less, but they're my toys, so who cares!

 

that 221 looks sweet. I scoure the junk boxes for treasures. The scratches are a testmonity(sp) to the joy some child had with it. Some guys pay extra for "weathering". I pay less for it. I've rebuilt several locomotives, and I've only felt the need to reapint one.

[brianel027]

These 3 photos say it all for me. After going on 17 years back in the hobby, if I had waited for Lionel, K-Line or MTH to make these cars in these particular traditional sizes in these roads, I'd STILL be waiting. For me, repainting is fun and makes the hobby affordable. And it suits my artistic/designer impulses. It's not that I don't like older rail lines... it's just I like the new ones too. So repainting has become an utter necessity until more of the companies come to their senses and realize there actually IS a market for starter sized cars and locos in current modern road names.... I know there is for all the many comments I get about these when I display them at shows.

[ezmike]

Thanks guys, I get the feeling the concensus is do what I want. Just for my information, is the original finish a flat black, a gloss black or as one described, a mixture of both?

 The gloss does look pretty cool and the flat did look different from the rest of the loco, but thruth be told, it will be running on my lay out not on display.

[Jumijo]

If you are painting the whole locomotive, Krylon Semi-Flat Black is a great match. You could also spray some into a cup or jar and apply it with a brush if you are just touching up chips.

Jim 

[ezmike]

Thanks, I'll try it and see. I appreciate the suggestions from everyone.

[el tonto]

I'm in the UK Lionel etc is hard to come by and think playworn equipment has its charm especially locos as long as its not too bad and will leave it, but I have repainted a lot over the years I like to think of all the kids that have had fun with these rugged trains, all the hours spent on wet cold days, all the accidents chips dents tell a story. and the motors keep going! of all the Lionel locos I have bought some going back to 1912 I have never known one that didn't run immediately or with some TLC. You cant get that reliability with modern plastic trains ,it has to be metal for me repainted or not, preferably pre-war Lionel !

[pennytrains]

aboard!