Lionel's New York Central System cabooses

[rlbarnard]

Recently I was on Ebay looking as some of the New York Central cabooses being offered for sale. Two that I noticed were Lionel's #19726 grey lightning bolt wayside caboose and Lionel's # 6-9174 green wayside caboose.

To get to the point, were there any of the NYC lightning bolt cabooses in real life? I can't remember ever seeing any. I can remember seeing a lot of the green ones. I grewup during the '40s and '50s across the street from the NYC tracks which ran between Niagara Falls, Rochester, and Boston.

***

[wrmcclellan]

This is a good question. I have a lot of photo stuff and some old videos of the NYC and I think the lightening stripe caboose is a bit of (well done) whimsy.

[espeefoamer]

NYC had green bay window cabooses,with a small bay window.I don't know how their cupola cabooses were painted.

[Deputy]

I am also in the market for a NYC bay window caboose. I saw the ones mentioned in the first post on E-Bay. I have also seen NYC bay window cabeese painted in the red/grey Pacemaker colors like the boxcars. Anyone know if these are real colors or fantasy?

Here's a pic of it:

http://www.trainbarn.com/mth_30-7712.htm

Dep

[Bob Keller]

Checking Sweetland's two volumes of color guides to NYC equipment, most NYC cabooses were either tuscan or jade green. There were five 20100-series cabooses (the old-timey, wood-sided caboose with a low coupla that I believe MTH still offers) were re-worked with either aluminum sides, or sheathed sides and were painted in the red and gray for Pacemaker service.

There were also a few jade green done up with a white safety stripe (some with safety slogans, sone with safety slogans and an Aerotrain outline) at about window level.

[Deputy]

Thanks Bob. Drat! I guess I will shell out the big $$ for a Lionel bay window in jade green (6-17633). Good grief...$80 samolies for a caboose

 

Dep

[Deputy]

Hey Bob,
              How about these? Is there a real one in this group or all fantasy jobs?
http://www.trainbarn.com/mth_20-91030.htm

http://www.trainbarn.com/mth_20-91076.htm

http://www.mth-railking.com/detail.asp?item=33-7802

http://www.traindoctor.com/webstore/shopexd.asp?id=1415

I'm having a heck of a time finding the Lionel Bay Window in jade green. If any one of these is correct, please let me know.

Dep

 

    

[Bob Keller]

You can't go wrong with any jade green caboose (there also seems to be a variety in placement of the logo). The 7802 looks about right, though in the color reference, the reds seemed a bit darken (more boxcar brown) than red. As for the red/gray, the book only showed the one style (represented by the MTH no. 7802 body) that was painted for Pacemaker. But don't get too wrapped around the axle about it - literally, anything is possible to have been done.

I've got red/gray, green, yellow (Marx), and red NYC cabooses. The only NYC caboose I ever passed on was a black boom car for a crane (hey, it was supposed to be emergency equipment and I doubt if any railroad would have painted it black).

I think MTH made the crane (black), but I bought a K-Line boom car (green). Or the reverse.

[luther_stanton]

The lightening striped, while fictitious, would look good with the Lionel F3s.

I just bought a steel side Lionel tuscan for my F3s and a Lionel wood side, again Tuscan, for my Hudson.  I have been contemplating a purchase of a lightening stripe one for the F3s as well.

- Luther

[Deputy]

Bob,
       I really like the first two MTH cabooses I listed. Price isn't too terrible and they are readily available. I also like the red/grey bay window from MTH that I listed higher up the thread, so I will probably go with that one too. Too bad the Lionel jade green is so dang hard to find. I'll put a standing order in with Bill Oberst at SVC Trains for the Lionel caboose so that if they get one I'll have it reserved. Thanks a ton for all your advice. BTW...I'm also a new subscriber to Classic Toy trains

 

Dep
Mike Bonomo

[Deputy]

The lightening striped, while fictitious, would look good with the Lionel F3s.

I just bought a steel side Lionel tuscan for my F3s and a Lionel wood side, again Tuscan, for my Hudson.  I have been contemplating a purchase of a lightening stripe one for the F3s as well.

- Luther

Yep...I have the ABA F3s coming from MTH. That grey lightning stripe WOULD look spectacular with it. From what I've read, those cabooses came with a Lionel set..."It was produced in 1995 as an additional car to go with the #11744 New Yorker service station set."

Here it is on E-Bay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Lionel-19726-NYC-Bay-Window-Caboose_W0QQitemZ330039414468QQihZ014QQcategoryZ4148QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Deputy]

Wow!!! Here's the set those cabooses came from:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260040998964

[chuck]

The Central steel sided bay window units were either oxide red (first units, early on), or Jade/Century green (majority/later years).  The Lightning Stripe and PaceMaker are very attractive schemes that were not used on the real railroad.   One of the Morning Sun books on NYC rolling stock mentions the oxide red/green schemes.  Photo's of PaceMaker consists usually have the wood sided end cupola cabin cars. 

LS car was an add on to a "combine" set that Lionel did.  Original set had a few freight cars and a combine baggage/passenger coach in the consist.  There were additional freight and passenger cars issued to round out the set.  The caboose was one of these offerings.

[csxt30]

I have the new NYC green Bay Window coboose & I will caution anyone on these cabooses as the wires in them, for lights & flasher & smoke unit, are so thin in diameter that all the wires in mine burnt to a crisp in only a week ! They need to be replaced with a larger diameter wire for sure if running in TMCC. I was not running mine in command at the time & they burned up. The dealer said I must have derailed it & burnt the wires up, but I didn't even have a switch on my layout at the time nor did it ever derail. It is a great looking cab though, just no lights or anything in mine now.

Thanks, John   

[luther_stanton]

Too bad the Lionel jade green is so dang hard to find.  

Is this the one that you are looking for??

http://www.trainfinder.com/traindealers/store.asp?section=trainDetails&id=13433&accountNo=TF1013

- Luther

[Deputy]

Too bad the Lionel jade green is so dang hard to find.  

Is this the one that you are looking for??

http://www.trainfinder.com/traindealers/store.asp?section=trainDetails&id=13433&accountNo=TF1013

- Luther

 

Yep...that's the one. Note his comment under it's description: "(current issue price for the series is $89 and all are sellouts)".

For $89 samolies I can get TWO of the MTH cabooses. I can wait for SVC trains to get one for me at a discount. That's the trick to buying this stuff...finding the lowest price
With these NYC bay windows it seems to be a seller's market.

 

Dep

 

[Deputy]

I have the new NYC green Bay Window coboose & I will caution anyone on these cabooses as the wires in them, for lights & flasher & smoke unit, are so thin in diameter that all the wires in mine burnt to a crisp in only a week ! They need to be replaced with a larger diameter wire for sure if running in TMCC. I was not running mine in command at the time & they burned up. The dealer said I must have derailed it & burnt the wires up, but I didn't even have a switch on my layout at the time nor did it ever derail. It is a great looking cab though, just no lights or anything in mine now.

Thanks, John   

 

John,
Have you contacted Lionel about this problem? Seems pretty flakey and definitely a danger for a kid operating one.

Dep

 

[Deputy]

Well I e-mailed MTH and asked them about the paint schemes on their two cabooses:

http://www.trainbarn.com/mth_20-91030.htm

http://www.trainbarn.com/mth_20-91076.htm

 

I asked if they were based on REAL paint schemes used on these cabooses or just fantasy paint schemes. I wonder if maybe MTH has some pics we don't know about that show these colors on these cabooses?

Dep

[csxt30]

I have the new NYC green Bay Window coboose & I will caution anyone on these cabooses as the wires in them, for lights & flasher & smoke unit, are so thin in diameter that all the wires in mine burnt to a crisp in only a week ! They need to be replaced with a larger diameter wire for sure if running in TMCC. I was not running mine in command at the time & they burned up. The dealer said I must have derailed it & burnt the wires up, but I didn't even have a switch on my layout at the time nor did it ever derail. It is a great looking cab though, just no lights or anything in mine now.

Thanks, John   

 

John,
Have you contacted Lionel about this problem? Seems pretty flakey and definitely a danger for a kid operating one.

Dep

 

Dep : no, after what the dealer said I just figured someday I would try to rewire it myself. Now another friend of mine, Spankybird from the forum here, actually had his burn up to the point where it melted the roof of his caboose ! I got mine on sale at the time for I believe 66 dollars ! Now other than him & I,  I haven't heard of anyone else having a problem with these.

Thanks, John   

[Deputy]

John,
    Good grief! I think I would freak out to see a $90 caboose do a meltdown!!!!

$66 is an excellent price for that caboose. I am thinking maybe I will disable the electrics in one if I am able to get a decent price on it.

Dep

[csxt30]

Dep : I would take it apart & see for yourself if the wires are still very tiny in diameter & then decide if you can rewire it with bigger wires. Maybe this was just a few that came through like that or something. It sure is a highly detailed caboose & I was going to get a Western Pacific one for my articulated steam engine, but they are even harder to find now !! I like the trucks on it as they have the little roller brg. that goes around with the wheels like the real ones !!

Thanks, John

[Deputy]

John: Sounds like a good plan as far as checking the size of the wiring. I put in a request for one at SVCtrains. Keeping my fingers crossed

Dep

 

[csxt30]

Dep : Keep us informed on this if you get one !! Another thing with me was, I didn't want to send it to Lionel cause I would have been without it for a while and I really liked it !! Hope you get one & it is OK !! Boy, the Westerm Pacific one is really sharp too, according to the catalog !!

Thanks, John

PS !! Maybe you can come on over to The Coffee Pot if you're still retired & have more time !! We have a lot of fun over there & get to know each other real well !!

[Deputy]

Had to resurrect this thread because there was a statement that the red/grey Pacemaker caboose was never used. I did some checking and they WERE used!!! Here's a website that describes their useage:

http://caboosenut.com/Cab_New_York_Central_Caboose.htm

Little History

The NYC's "Pacemaker" cabooses were from a group of 50 wood cabeese
with steel underframes that came from scrapped boxcars. The cars were
rebuilt around 1944. The five cars which carried the Pacemaker paint
scheme were resheathed with plywood sides after WW2 when the
Pacemaker service started and painted in the red and gray scheme,
but without the "Pacemaker" lettering.

And here's a pic of a Pacemaker-painted caboose:

Dep 

 

 

[Bob Keller]

Check my Oct 17, 2006 comment.

Nice pic.

[Deputy]

Check my Oct 17, 2006 comment.

Nice pic.

LOL...I saw that Bob!!!! But I like your comment on 10/17 much better:

"As for the red/gray, the book only showed the one style (represented by the MTH no. 7802 body) that was painted for Pacemaker. But don't get too wrapped around the axle about it - literally, anything is possible to have been done."

I'm betting the MTH 20-91030 with center cupola existed too.  Not sure about the Pacemaker colors in a bay window version, though. MTH also has a scale-sized center cupola in an all-grey version (20-19076?). I wouldn't be surprised if that is a real deal paint job too.

Dep

[Bob Keller]

BTW I recently scored a New York Central "Safe in '63" pocket protector, which has been added to my white lab coat for the online videos.

Eat your heart out, Dep!

[sir james I]

Take note that Lionel and MTH use different shades of red and gray. it is very noticeable side by side.

[Deputy]

Bob: You really know how to torture someone!!!   I scored a scale MTH center cupola Pacemaker caboose on E-Bay (20-91030). Also picked up two scale cabeese from Roundhouse South...New York Central Bay Window Caboose 20-91037 and 20-91174 New York Central Steel Sided Caboose. That should put me in good shape for cabeese. But I'd still like to get the center cupola all gray MTH caboose.

James: I wasn't aware that Lionel colors for Pacemaker are that much different than MTH. I don't own any Lionel Pacemaker stuff that I can remember, but I'll keep that in mind.

[Bob Keller]

Its tough to shoot a white pocket protector on a white lab coat ...