Derailing on K-Line O-27 turnout

[Anonymous]

I'm a newbie, so please forgive any of the terminology I mess up.

Just added K-line switches to my O-27 layout. My loco is derailing going over one of the turnouts. The problem isn't taking the curve. It happens when the loco goes over the switch on the mainline in the unswitched direction. The locomotive is a 2-8-4 Berkshire from the 2004 Lionel Southern Pacific set (6-31963). The left front guide wheel jumps the track to the outside. Doesn't cause an immediate derailment, but when the train gets to the next turnout it's ugly. The turnout is in the middle of a 6 foot straight section of track.

The only problem with the turnout in any other direction is a more-noticeable-than-normal power interruption going through on the mainline in the opposite direction. I've tried securing everything and shortening the pin that connects the swing rail to the control arm. Neither made any difference.

This happens even at very slow speeds.

Any suggestion/comments/things to check?

Thanks,

Dave

[jimhaleyscomet]

1. Are you operating off of track power? If so it is easy to run over the switch before it flips. Consider adding a separate transformer for the switches.
2. Use a car and enter the switch from all directions. See how long it takes to flip. Is it flipping all the way? If it is slow you need an insulated track extension.

If it is derailing when the switch is already in the proper position I do not know what to do!

Jim H

[Anonymous]

Thanks Jim. The switch is already set in the correct direction before the train approaches, so I don't think that could be it, but to answer your question - yes I am operating off track power. I bought the K-line switches so that I could convert to a fixed power source and get rid of the hum, only to find that the accessory power from my CW-80 can't power switches.

Waiting on the new transformer now.

Dave

Waiting on the new transformer now.

[brianel027]

Do a search here on K-Line turnouts or on Walt Rapp. If you are referring to the brand new style K-Line turnouts (with the very low switchbox) Walt has bought quite a few of them and has worked with them. I recall he was having some small troubles, but got them fixed. There was a thread on this some months ago.

[GPJ68]

Is this an old style large cover K-Line switch, or the new style low profile switch? I have one troublesome older 42" switch that randomly causes similar derailments with my old 1666's and lighter rolling stock. Only thing I can figure is that the wheel flanges are hitting the nub of plastic that sticks up through the swivel rail plate from the swivel rail link "rod". On the new low profile switches, this nub is fairly small, flat-topped, and unobtrusive, but it's large, fat, and obnoxious on the older K-Lines. On a few 42's that nub is rounded over, on others (including the troublemaker) it's been cut at an angle (which just might be throwing the lightly sprung pilot wheels up off the track and to the side if/when the wheel flange hits it.

I've also noticed that there is alot less slop and flop (none, actually) in the swivel rail on the new low profile switches when compared to the older style (lotta slop n' flop, even on "new" off-the-shelf ones). It seems K-Line has changed more than just the switch motor. Guess I'll be trading out the old for the new as time and funds allow.

I'm very impressed with how well the K-Line switches (both old and new styles) work off of 14 volt fixed power from my Z-4000. They really snap smartly at that voltage - I've gotten my 1666's up to "tipping" speeds and not had a derailment from a slow moving swivel rail (knocking on wood....), at least not YET.....

[Anonymous]

It's a low profile switch. I used a soldering iron to shorten/flatten the nub , but it didn't help.

[Anonymous]

Brianel,

I searched as you suggested. Found some messages concerning problems with Lionel 042 switches, but nothing relating to K-Line switches. I tried some other searches without specifying Walt, but still didn't find anything close. I also sent a note to K-Line tech support. My experience with tech support groups isn't all that great, but it seemed worth a try.

[waltrapp]

Dave, Walt here!

I don't know exactly what I might have said in the thread that Brianel referred to, other than I remember reporting on the 12 that I bought here on this forum (Brianel convinced me to get rid of my Lionel ones and convert to K-Line and I thank him every time my trains run over the K-Line switches!!!)

I am not at home right now so I'll try to go by memory. First off, my are the 27" ones not the 42" ones. So I guess if you have the 42's my help won't actually be helpful :-)

As you probably noticed there's a lot of plastic in these switches. I had to file down some of the plastic in various places because it was too high. This would cause one side of the engine's lead truck to rise up and often this resulted in a derailment. I think I filed 10 of my 12 switches! I used both a hand file and a Dremmel.

Another thing that I noticed, and had to fix, was that the swivel (the point) was not set tight enough against the rail after I switched the switch. It was particularly noticeable when it switched to the 'straight' position. The wheels of the front truck of the engine would often 'catch' on the point and then derail, which sounds alot like what you are experiencing. I believe that I had to file some plastic off where the point of the swivel part met the plastic on the side of the swtich. This let the point recess into the plastic a bit.

Sorry that I don't remember all that I did because all 12 work flawlessly now.

- walt

[jimhaleyscomet]

Come to think of it I believe I had a switch with the swivel getting hung up on the straight through outside rail. I crushed the rail flat with a piece of needle nose pliers and now the point can make it tight into the rail.

Jim H

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all! All's now well. The problem was a little different than what Walt and Jim H encountered, so I'll describe it below in case someone else has the same problem.

Following Walt's advice, I filed down some of the high points of the plastic. This smoothed things out some, but I was still getting derailments. After standing on my head while holding a flashlight in one hand and pushing the engine through the switch with the other, I found the problem.

It was essentially the opposite of what Walt described above. My outside rails have a notch cut in them so the swivel can nest tightly. Maybe K-Line was listening and made a correction? Anyway, the notch is cut in at 90 degrees on the side toward the single leg of the switch, then angled back out on the other side. When approaching from the straight switched leg, The inside flange on the front wheel was hitting the back edge of this notch. Instead of going to the inside as it should, it was going up, so that it was riding on top the rail, then slipping off to the outside. The fix was essentially what Jim H. suggested. I bent the last part of the full rail just before the notch in a little. That way, when the wheel hits it it deflects to the inside.

Now I'm on to Jim H's other suggestion about melting a wire into the frog to get rid of the power disruptions when going over the switch. Jim, if you're still following, do I just hold a soldering iron on the wire until it melts in?

Or maybe I'll actually run the train for awhile first.

Thanks Again,

Dave

[jimhaleyscomet]

Dave,

That is what I did. I heated the wire (not the plastic). Started with solid wire straight as I could make it and sank it in so the top is just barely above the top of the plastic. Held the wire down by pushing with a needle nose plyer until the plastic hardened. . I am curious to know if stranded also works since my engines "bump up" just a tad going over the wire.

Jim H