so I was taking a break and enjoying my prewar catalogs, when I noticed something interesting on the back of my Lionel 1940 catalog, as lionel was celebrating 40 years, they provide a picture of an engine they claim was one of the first engines Lionel built. I'm not a complete expert but I pretty sure that engine was not a 2.78th gauge loco and not one of the first made by Lionel. That honor being the wooden motorized flatcars. So my question is what engine is this that is even shown?
Keeping in mind that appears to be an artist's rendition and not a photograph what's pictured is apparantly Lionel's #5 0-4-0, produced from 1906 to 1909. The N.Y.C & H.R.R.R. (New York Central & Hudson River Rail Road) marking is pretty typical for #5's. It was a Standard Gauge engine and while not the absolute earliest Lionel product considering it's 1906 it's early enough.
Looks more like a thin rimmed #6 to me. Here's a page from the TM book on Standard Gauge:
Thin rimmed versions are on the left and late thick rimmed models are on the right. Left top to bottom: 5, 6, 7, 5 Special. The top 3 on the right are 5, 6 & 7 but the one on the bottom right is the 51.
Compare the placement of the rear set of drivers on the coal-bunkered #5 with the thin rimmed #6 directly below it. It's farther forward under the cab on the #6 which matches the loco on the catalog cover. Also, there are holes on the top of the boiler between the dome and what's left of the turned wood stack. Those tell me there used to be a bell there.
The #6 was manufactured between 1906 and 1923. The pilot, pilot truck, tender, bell, one brass boiler band, headlight and possibly the reverse all appear to be missing.
Same me, different spelling!
Correction, it looks like one of the brass boiler bands was moved to the smokebox front.
pennytrains Looks more like a thin rimmed #6 to me. Here's a page from the TM book on Standard Gauge: Thin rimmed versions are on the left and late thick rimmed models are on the right. Left top to bottom: 5, 6, 7, 5 Special. The top 3 on the right are 5, 6 & 7 but the one on the bottom right is the 51. Compare the placement of the rear set of drivers on the coal-bunkered #5 with the thin rimmed #6 directly below it. It's farther forward under the cab on the #6 which matches the loco on the catalog cover. Also, there are holes on the top of the boiler between the dome and what's left of the turned wood stack. Those tell me there used to be a bell there. The #6 was manufactured between 1906 and 1923. The pilot, pilot truck, tender, bell, one brass boiler band, headlight and possibly the reverse all appear to be missing.
is the cowcatcher a separate part or could it have broken off from the frame and the cow catcher be actually part of the frame assembly?
Flintlock76 Keeping in mind that appears to be an artist's rendition and not a photograph what's pictured is apparantly Lionel's #5 0-4-0, produced from 1906 to 1909. The N.Y.C & H.R.R.R. (New York Central & Hudson River Rail Road) marking is pretty typical for #5's. It was a Standard Gauge engine and while not the absolute earliest Lionel product considering it's 1906 it's early enough.
is it an artists rendering of the actual engine in front of the artist, or a 'what if' engine from the imagination of lionel?
i think I really opened up a can of worms! Lol
James Huffi think I really opened up a can of worms! Lol
No problem! You wouldn't be the first!
Best photo I could find of the pilot is this black and white one from Greenberg's Guide to Standard Gauge:
It looks like there's a piece that slipped over the top of that loop on the end of the frame.
I think it's an artist retouched photo. There's a very faint outline of what should have been where the rear boiler band would be. Another clue is the bent edges of the hole where the bell was.
The stack is all wrong and the possible absence of the slots for the slide on headlight (can't say for sure because of that gold boiler band) further suggest an illustrator was at work here. Even in those days it wasn't unusual to Photoshop an image . No headlight would mean it was manufactured before 1908.
P.S. Since 2 7/8 gauge was intended as a commercial display product, it's not unreasonable to say that Lionel would prefer to show their first great Standard Gauge steam locomotive instead of a hard to obtain motorized cheesebox.
There ya go, 2 screws attach the pilot to the frame.
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