Trains.com

Williams CS100W O Gauge New York Central #5205

661 views
20 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2021
  • 84 posts
Williams CS100W O Gauge New York Central #5205
Posted by trainlivebob on Sunday, July 31, 2022 6:16 PM

Just bought this and it's in great cosmetic condition and runs fine but won't smoke right. 
it coughs or spits an plume of smoke occasionally but nothing else. 
I've add smoke fluid twice thinking it was really dry. I see a little puddle in the bottom of the stack.  This smoke unit is unlike any of my Lionel.  Any suggestions?

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,320 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, July 31, 2022 7:38 PM

I had to look this one up, and I'm assuming what you've got is a Williams Scale Hudson, an earlier model than the 5207 Hudson in my 2012 catalog.

If it's like the Williams Berkshire I've got your Hudson has a Seuthe smoke unit.  One of two things could be happening.  Either the smoke unit's gone bad or if it's like my Berk the smoke unit gets its power from a circuit board that's gone bad.  You'll have to take the shell off the engine to inspect the unit, I don't think you can see much by removing the smokebox door.

Here's a place that sells Seuthe units.

https://www.allaboardtrains1.com/sesmunandge.html

Check the listings.  There's two types of Seuthe unit, one that takes power from a board and one that takes track power. As far as I know no replacement boards are available from Williams, so your best bet would probably be to order a track powered unit. 

One last thing, O scale Seuthe units should be filled with 12 drops of smoke fluid maximum. 

Hope this helps.

  • Member since
    July 2021
  • 84 posts
Posted by trainlivebob on Monday, August 1, 2022 5:48 AM

Thanks for your response, and yes it is the scale Hudson with the Seuthe unit.

I may have overfilled it so im going to run it some more and see if anything changes or maybe just turn it upside down and drain.  I can see a puddle at the bottom of the unit.

I have no idea if it is getting power from a board or track, but I suspect a board because turning up track power doesnt seem to affect it.

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,320 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, August 1, 2022 7:56 AM

You're welcome!

For what it's worth I had a Williams Berk where the smoke unit component of the constant-voltage board went bad.  I sold it to a club member who didn't care if the smoke unit worked or not so I didn't try a "rebuild."

I'll guess your headlight gets power from the board as well.

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • 867 posts
Posted by philo426 on Monday, August 1, 2022 9:14 AM

I usually shut the smoke unit off,don't dig the smell or smoke .

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,320 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, August 1, 2022 9:59 AM

philo426

I usually shut the smoke unit off,don't dig the smell or smoke .

 

Sometimes I do as well, depending on time and place.  For trains under the Christmas tree I shut the smoke and sound off and just rely on the visuals.  During the winter when I keep the windows of the Chugger Barn closed I'll shut off the smoke units that I can't adjust for output, for example on early MTH engines.  The post-wars aren't super-heavy smokers so I leave them alone. 

 

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • 301 posts
Posted by smokey1 on Monday, August 1, 2022 1:34 PM

philo426

I usually shut the smoke unit off,don't dig the smell or smoke . 

Ditto

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • 867 posts
Posted by philo426 on Monday, August 1, 2022 3:24 PM

So true !my MTH Texas and Pacific 4-8-2 will smoke up the basement if I leave the smoke unit on!

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • 867 posts
Posted by philo426 on Monday, August 1, 2022 3:25 PM

  • Member since
    July 2021
  • 84 posts
Posted by trainlivebob on Tuesday, August 2, 2022 7:01 AM

[quote user="Flintlock76"]

You're welcome!

For what it's worth I had a Williams Berk where the smoke unit component of the constant-voltage board went bad.  

So if the board went bad, can I just hook up the smoke unit to track power?

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,320 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, August 2, 2022 8:08 AM

trainlivebob
So if the board went bad, can I just hook up the smoke unit to track power?

I wouldn't count on it.  If you check the smoke units in the link I gave you you'll see there's different voltage units, some good for the high-end range AC/DC and some not, and who knows what kind is in that Williams engine?  At best what you've got MIGHT work with direct track power or at worst you'll blow the smoke unit.  Of course, if it's not working anyway you could take the chance and see what happens. 

In your case what I'd do is order a replacement smoke unit (measure the size of the one in there first, sizes in the catalog are given in millimeters) of the appropriate voltage range and go from there. 

Can you meter the power board to see if it's sending power to the smoke unit?

One last thing, I checked that Seuthe list and you've probably got the low voltage unit.  Here's the page.

https://www.allaboardtrains1.com/se5smun.html

 

  • Member since
    July 2021
  • 84 posts
Posted by trainlivebob on Tuesday, August 2, 2022 11:07 AM

Thanks 

I thought the same that it's a low voltage and track power would blow it. 
it is getting some power as I see some wisps of smoke at times. 
since this is my first Williams should I expect a lot of smoke? As good as a pw Lionel?

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,320 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, August 2, 2022 3:02 PM

On a smoke scale of one to ten I'd say a Seuthe's about a five. That's the best way I can describe it.  Ten would be an MTH smoke unit turned up to yard fogger intensity!

  • Member since
    July 2021
  • 84 posts
Posted by trainlivebob on Wednesday, August 3, 2022 12:37 PM

So I took the boiler off to look at the board and smoker.  Board looks fine and is feeding the headlight.

It almost looks like the smoke unit mounts in a bayonet light bulb type connector, may bad contacts?  After adjusting it on the test track it seems to have a steady stream of smoke, albeit weak.  Put back together it doesnt smoke as well on the tracks.  But how is the smoke supposed to be forced out the smokestack?  I didnt see any pump or fan?  Maybe thats the issue, its just suppose to waft up in the air?

  • Member since
    April 2013
  • 324 posts
Posted by Michael6268 on Wednesday, August 3, 2022 3:31 PM

There is no fan or motor with that type of smoke unit. It just naturally drifts upward. You should only fill it halfway, and you should be using a smoke fluid meant for that type of unit. Any Seuthe type fluid is fine. The heavier Lionel and mega Steam won't work.

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,320 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, August 3, 2022 3:41 PM

Michael6268
There is no fan or motor with that type of smoke unit. It just naturally drifts upward.

Right, it just drifts up and out of the unit, forward movement of the engine also helps a bit by causing a draft.

I don't know about Lionel smoke fluid since I don't use it but the Seuthe unit on the Williams Berkshire I've got works just fine with JT's Mega Steam, which is all I use on my steamers.   Ten or twelve drops maximum in the Seuthe unit. 

  • Member since
    July 2021
  • 84 posts
Posted by trainlivebob on Wednesday, August 3, 2022 4:00 PM

Flintlock76

 I have been using JT's also.  Maybe Ill try some Seuthe to see if there is a difference.  No puffing, that's probably a problem seeing it if it moving fast.

 

Thanks

 
Michael6268
There is no fan or motor with that type of smoke unit. It just naturally drifts upward.

 

Right, it just drifts up and out of the unit, forward movement of the engine also helps a bit by causing a draft.

I don't know about Lionel smoke fluid since I don't use it but the Seuthe unit on the Williams Berkshire I've got works just fine with JT's Mega Steam, which is all I use on my steamers.   Ten or twelve drops maximum in the Seuthe unit. 

 

  • Member since
    April 2013
  • 324 posts
Posted by Michael6268 on Wednesday, August 3, 2022 10:35 PM

JT megasteam is very thick, im surprised it works for you Flint. 

 

Im sure Seuthe will work better, but dont expect tons of smoke.  

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,320 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, August 4, 2022 8:59 AM

trainlivebob
I have been using JT's also.  Maybe Ill try some Seuthe to see if there is a difference.  No puffing, that's probably a problem seeing it if it moving fast.

Considering what Michael said I'm wondering if your smoke unit's goobed up with old inappropriate fluid?  Try cleaning it with some alcohol poured into it and letting it sit for a few hours, then pour out the alcohol and let it dry. I wouldn't put anything down there like a Q-tip to scrub it, you might damage the heating element.  

If your smoke unit's like the one I've got it most likely plugs into the circuit board for power and return, the mount it's in is just to hold it in place. 

I wish I was there to look over your shoulder!

  • Member since
    July 2021
  • 84 posts
Posted by trainlivebob on Monday, August 8, 2022 11:39 AM

Flintlock76
I wish I was there to look over your shoulder!

 

Me too!! 

  • Member since
    July 2021
  • 84 posts
Posted by trainlivebob on Monday, August 8, 2022 6:54 PM

I got the Seuthe smoke liquid today. 
soaked the unit in alcohol for an hour or so and drained and let it dry. 
put 12 drops of the liquid in it as per Williams instructions. 
ran it around for a few laps. It started smoking a little. Very mild smoke.  I give it a 3 out of 10. 
it was better than mega steam liquid since I couldn't see much of any when running. 
My worst smoking locomotive.  only smoker worse is my Lionel smoking caboose. 
oh well the loco looks nice.  whistle not bad. 
horn doesn't work. Other Williams true blast sound board  I have works. 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER

Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month