I've been kind of intrigued by the pre-war torpedo type locos for a while, and last weekend I finally gave in and bought one. I didn't pay much for it, but the guy assured me that it ran good. It doesn't. It lights up, and depending on switch setting, it will hum, but it isn't going anywhere. A quick search on Amazon tells me repair books are rare and in demand. I just can't see paying over $200.00 for a book to repair a loco that cost me only $60.00...and that included several cars to go with it! This is my first loco that doesn't run, so my repair experience is quite limited. Is there a good source for info on these, or does anyone have advice on what I should poke first to try and get it going?
I probably shouldn't be responding right now, I just had some dental work done this morning and they shot so much dope in me I've got two eyeballs sharing space in one socket, but here goes...
If it lights up that's good, it shows juice is getting to the locomotive. I had a similar problem with a 1946 vintage post-war 224 (a 2-6-2) and it turned out to be a bad e-unit. I removed the e-unit and wired the pick-ups directly to the motor to restore operation. I'll replace the e-unit one day.
It was easy to tell when the e-unit went, it died in a shower of sparks! Luckily I was running the trains with the overhead light out so I had a good show.
A few things, do the drivers rotate freely without binding? Have you tried removing the shell and cleaning the motor, sometimes that's all it takes.
Also, you don't have to spend a lot to get repair information, check the "Shop" heading on the top of the website, the skinny one over the pictured magazines. Kalmbach sells a Greenberg post-war Lionel repair guide that retails for $25. For a quick and dirty tutorial TM Books and Video has a Lionel repair DVD that sells for around $19.95, and it's GOOD. www.tmbv.com
Even though you've got a pre-war engine I don't think the motors or the rest of the guts changed all that much in the post-war era.
Just had another thought, the e-unit may be so gunked up it can't work. Rather than try to take it apart at this point try spraying it with electrical contact cleaner. Sometimes that's all it needs.
If you don't have an electrical meter you should get one, you'll need it at some point anyway and they come as cheap or expensive as you care to go. Buy the best you can afford.
Unless its an original Lionel Factory Service Manual, the prices quoted above are way out of line. Try the following site for most of the information that Lionel published for use by their service stations. It's freehttp://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd1.htm
Firelock76 is right on. There is two different motors thou that was used in them. As I had one that had a bad Brush plate and was told that style can't get the part for that one, by train tender. But I have not ran across that except the one time so it's not a common thing and which one it was I'm not sure.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
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The easiest thing to do is, try to spray the E unit with contact cleaner, to see if that is the cause. The other thing that could be a problem is brushes, and the copper face of the armature, that may need attention. It depends on what version of 1688 you have, to know which motor you are dealing. Contrary to what Rtraincollector mention, there are actually 3 motors that were used in the 1688, with the middle version being not so common. Is the motor mounted with two screws down through the running boards, or are there two screw holes on the left side of the body, and the bottom of the motor has a plastic collector with a "Circle L". That dates your 1688. The 1688 is actually really easy to get running. How is the motor mounted??
I was aware there are 3 but two from my understanding are basically the same and not wanting to add any more confusion decided to leave the 3rd one out thinking there is only two types of brush plates. But closer looking they are not the same as there is 3 different brush plates sorry for the omitting. Thanks for the correction
Rtraincollector, He either has the first or last version of motor, as they are the most common. He just needs to clarify which version he has, but either way, they are so simple to fix. Do you know that the 1688/E shares the same body with the 1588 windup, and the 1668/E. The 027 torpedo body in the 1930's was probably the most produced, prior to the war.
I would say that you might want to lube it up, and make sure the reverse isn't jammed.
teledoc Rtraincollector, He either has the first or last version of motor, as they are the most common. He just needs to clarify which version he has, but either way, they are so simple to fix. Do you know that the 1688/E shares the same body with the 1588 windup, and the 1668/E. The 027 torpedo body in the 1930's was probably the most produced, prior to the war.
Yes I did.
I hope "Scrambler" lets us know how it turns out.
I love happy endings!
I probably should have posted this later in the week. Due to taking on a second job, I have absolutely no train time during the week anymore. I can't wait for Friday night or Saturday to get back downstairs.
Thanks for the advice, and I will post up my results one way or the other.
We're looking forward to hearing from you!
Scrambler, When you check back in, let us know which motor you have. The first, most common mounts with two short screws through the running boards. The later one mounts with two screws that pass through the body/motor and thread into the opposite side of the body. Either one are not very hard to get running. The two main spots to maintain are the E unit (fingers and copper contacts of drum) and the armature facing, with the need for new brushes.
Well, I spent a couple of hours on this thing Saturday afternoon, but seemed no closer than when I started. I had it mostly apart, had the E unit out and cleaned it up, but could not figure it out. Also, it appears the wiring is all original, and some of it looked pretty rough.
I had taken a drive down to Alloway Trains 'n Things Saturday morning to do a little shopping, and while talking to the owner I found out he has someone come in once a week to repair old trains. As much as I hated to do it, I decided that right now my time would be better spent trying to get my home in order, so I broke down and took the loco back to Alloway to give them a crack at it. I don't want it to sit in pieces on my bench for a few weeks while I tackle more pressing projects, so I'd rather just take the lazy route this time. Besides, the trip to Alloway is really pleasant, so it was a great excuse to put the wife on the back on my motorcycle for a few hours on Sunday afternoon.
Scrambler81, Thanks for the update, and if other commintments have you occupied with your time, the choice of taking it to get it fixed was probably the best thing to do. The 1688's are actually pretty easy to get running, IF you have the tools, and the knowledge of how to test each unit. The most common problems are worn brushes, and a dirty commutator face that the brushes make contact with. The other problem is the E unit, that could have different problems. I am still curious as to which version you have with the MOTOR and how it is mounted. Did it attach through the running boards, and the motor have a set of extended ears, across the one end, or did the motor mount with two long screws through the side of the body. That tells me the date of what you have. I actually own 9 1688's, all with different castings.
Scrambler, I'm told any excuse to get "in the wind" is a good one!
teledoc Scrambler81, Thanks for the update, and if other commintments have you occupied with your time, the choice of taking it to get it fixed was probably the best thing to do. The 1688's are actually pretty easy to get running, IF you have the tools, and the knowledge of how to test each unit. The most common problems are worn brushes, and a dirty commutator face that the brushes make contact with. The other problem is the E unit, that could have different problems. I am still curious as to which version you have with the MOTOR and how it is mounted. Did it attach through the running boards, and the motor have a set of extended ears, across the one end, or did the motor mount with two long screws through the side of the body. That tells me the date of what you have. I actually own 9 1688's, all with different castings.
By "body", I'm assuming you mean the frame, as I think of the body as being the outer shell. I could well have my terminology backwards. I did not remove the motor, but it appeared to be held in by a strap with two screws going into the side of the frame.
Scrambler81, Okay, from that description, there are two screws 2 1/4" long that pass from the left side of the body/shell going through the motor, and threaded into the right side of the shell. The bottom plate of the motor should be plastic (actually Bakelite), with "L" inside a circle. The two screws are one near the cab, and the front one is near the front wheel. If that is the one you have, it dates your 1688 to 1938-39. That motor was the last style they used in the 1688's. If you were to actually remove the motor to look at it, it would look very similar to a Postwar 1654/1655/1656 style motor. Theoretically, the 1654 was the same motor from Prewar, that had different rear wheels put on. The Prewar motor had extended hubs on the rear wheels, for the linkage, and the 1654 changed those to flat surfaced wheels, for different linkage. Both the 1688 & 1654 motors are what they refer to as single reduction motors, meaning there is just one gear between the two drivers. I have researched and studied the 1688/1688E, along with the 1588 windup, and 1668/1668E locos, which all use the same basic shell or body, and I know every single variation and motors used.
Most people think that the 1688 torpedo is pretty common, but I have found 18 variations, of which I own 10. They are all different in one aspect or another, when you get down to the fine details in the casting, the color, the motor, the number plates, and so on.
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