This is my question for all of you American Flyer Kids. I have seen three different Indain Head decals for the Santa Fe diesels:
the plain Indain head
the one marked Chief
The one marked Santa Fe
Can anyone tell me which logo goes on which Sante Fe version? (360-361,360-364,472, 470-471-473(1953-57),21927 ?
Happy Railroading
Irontooth
Not sure what specific part of the design that you are referring to, but here as best as I can describe are the photos in my catalog:
360/362/364/365 - Have the warbonnet paint scheme with SANTA FE on the bottom and an AMERICAN FLYER label positioned up and to the ends of each locomotive. The Indian Head decal is positioned behind the mid section door.
There is also supposed to be a 360/361 pair that was produced in chrome only with no warbonnet scheme. There are classified as "very rare" and I have no photo.
The 472 had the same markings as the 360 series except they added a Santa Fe shield under the cab windows, and the AMERICAN FLYER label on the end of the locomotive was replaced by BUILT BY GILBERT in much smaller script.
THe 4713 series from 53 through 54 had the CHIEF decals on the nose, and on the sides instead of SANTA FE it said AMERICAN FLYER LINES. No BUILT BY GILBERT decal on these, but they still carried the Indian Head decals.
IN 1955 the 4713 series was redesigned, the SANTA FE logo returned to the nose, the SANTA FE name returned to the side in place of AMERICAN FLYER LINES, and the BUILT BY GILBERT logo also returned.
the 21927 built in 1960 was similar to the 471e with the addition of the Santa Fe shield under the cab. I do not assume this listing to be exhaustive.
Confused yet?
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
I have seen three Indain head decals, one the cross under is blank, one has Chief in the cross, one has Sante Fe in the cross, wondering which one went with which diesel. Did they match the nose decal? Confused yes but in a good way.
Thanks
irontooth I have seen three Indain head decals, one the cross under is blank, one has Chief in the cross, one has Sante Fe in the cross, wondering which one went with which diesel. Did they match the nose decal? Confused yes but in a good way. Thanks Irontooth
Sorry for adding to the confusion. When you said Indian Head I'm thinking of the decal that goes on the locomotive side with the shield and long red trailing stripe. If there is lettering on them it's too small to see in the catalog photos.
As for the nose decals; the one that says CHIEF is apparently only apprporiate for the three-diesel set built in 1953 and 1954. The ones numbered 470/471/473 that were lettered with AMERICAN FLYER LINES on the sides instead of Santa Fe.
From 1955 on they went back to a more prototypical design and the nose decals once again said SANTA FE as did the side lettering.
Never seen a picture of one with a blank nose decal. Even the units painted as freight motors had SANTA FE on the nose decal. So there would be no correlation to the side decals.
Hopefully somone who actually owns one of these diesels will speak up. As you can see I'm more of a Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Grey guy.
I am only speaking of the Indain head decals, some are blank below the head, some say Chief, some say Santa Fe. Thank you much for your info
The Joe Deger book lists all observed variations of Gilbert production. 1950 production appeared to use only Santa Fe Indian head decals. In 1951 and 1952 both Santa Fe and blank decals are listed. I did not see a variation for the Chief Indian Head decal but I probably missed it with my quick search.
Tom
Thank You, that sheds some light on the Indain head, just trying to figure what goes with what when the Indian head decal is missing. When I add a engine to my small empire, I try to make sure that I have corrected any missing parts back to the way Gilbert produced it if I can.
It appears from the reference material that the Santa Fe lettered Indian Head would be correct for any production year of the 360, 361, 364, 362, 365 and 21927. It appears all the 470/471/473 units used the Chief lettered Indian head. The 1956 472 listing does not specify what was on the decal but were I restoring one I would use a Chief lettered decal.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month