A few years ago (2008-2011) I lived in Sheboygan, Wisconsin while managing a Little Caesar's restaurant. During my stay there, I went to a Menards store that had been built either right outside the city or on its outskirts. Anyway, when Christmas approached, I found they sold a few trains and accessories there. To me, it looked like they had ordered a few specially-made items from Lionel. I don't know if I imagined it or not, but I could have sworn all the cars had Built by Lionel (or Blt by Lionel) on them. When I started seeing ads in CTT for Menards trains, I assumed they were all made by Lionel.
Here's the reason for my post:
While reading "Editor's Desk with Carl Swanson" in the January 2016 issue, I noticed Mr. Swanson states, "When you include the contributions of Atlas O, Williams by Bachmann, M.T.H. Electric Trains, and recently Menards, it's clear we enjoy an almost infinite variety of locomotives, rolling stock, and accessories."
Does Menards now manufacture locomotives, rolling stock, and accessories themselves? Do they not just contract Lionel to do it all like I thought they did?
phrankenstign,
I have some of the Menards stuff. Although they do sell Lionel package trains and use the Lionel sign on some of their buildings,,. The cars I have got from them are not Lionel. I do not think that Menards manufactures any of the O scale product they sell but do have them special made by someone for their offerings. (maybe Lionel,,but I don’t think so) Some of the buildings are Woodland Scenics products changed for the Menards offer some are someone else. As far as I know they sell only rolling stock, Never seen any motive power units from them.
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
phrankenstignDoes Menards now manufacture locomotives, rolling stock, and accessories themselves? Do they not just contract Lionel to do it all like I thought they did?
None of the Menards brand items are Lionel.
WBB/Bachmann has gone on record that they(& Kader/Sanda Kan) have nothing to do with the Menards cars and did not manufacture them.
They are Chinese(Golden Wheel Die Cast) clones of Williams.
They now manufacture & market "O" track too.
Rob
ADCX Rob None of the Menards brand items are Lionel. ....... They are Chinese(Golden Wheel Die Cast) clones of Williams. They now manufacture & market "O" track too.
.......
100% are NOT Lionel? I guess my memory is getting faulty in my old age.
What do you mean by, "Golden Wheel Die Cast"? Is that the name of a company?
When Bachmann bought out Williams, wouldn't Bachmann own all of Williams' assets?.....or did Williams sell off their molds to Golden Wheel Die Cast first?
They are of Chinese(Hong Kong) manufacture by Golden Wheel Die Cast and are clones of Williams, as well as what appears to be clones of several other brands and rolling stock.
KADER owns the Williams tooling. It has obviously been copied.
Speaking of what I have seen in years past at our store, there was some Lionel, both cars and a starter set, along with Woodland Scenics buildings. I know they started producing thier own tubular track since Lionel discontinued it. The owners of Menards are O gauge modelers, thus the trains and the rise of a new line of track. Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Lionel stopped producing tubular track? I'm amazed! I'd noticed all their sets had FasTrack, but I hadn't realized they'd stopped making O27 and O track altogether.
So..... does this mean there's gonna be another round of lawsuits a'la Lionel vs MTH and Lionel vs K-Line? Wouldn't surprise me.
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
I doubt we would hear much of it.
There may not be any intellectual property involved either.
Wait, they're done with tubular track?!?
phrankenstign ADCX Rob None of the Menards brand items are Lionel. ....... They are Chinese(Golden Wheel Die Cast) clones of Williams. They now manufacture & market "O" track too. 100% are NOT Lionel? I guess my memory is getting faulty in my old age. What do you mean by, "Golden Wheel Die Cast"? Is that the name of a company? When Bachmann bought out Williams, wouldn't Bachmann own all of Williams' assets?.....or did Williams sell off their molds to Golden Wheel Die Cast first?
Your memory is not faulty Frank. Back when Menards first started dabbling in trains during the winter season, well more than a decade ago, 100% of the items stocked were manufactured by Lionel. They did try to feature Midwestern railroads like the Soo Line and the C&NW, but they were Lionel sets. After awhile Menards moved to adding special Menard's themed cars to the Lionel sets. Now they seem to have launched a line of their own. If I weren't a Flyer guy, I'd be excited.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
phrankenstign 100% are NOT Lionel? I guess my memory is getting faulty in my old age.
For sure, you have no memory issues if you are thinking of the older sets and years past offerings, the Lionel branded sets & equipment were made by Lionel, but the recent Menards branded stuff is not. The "O" items made by Lionel were clearly marked or identified as such.
Thanks guys! I thought I'd stepped into the Twilight Zone for a moment, because I was so sure I'd seen the Lionel name on the train stuff at Menards when I first visited their store in (or near) Sheboygan. I'd never expected to see trains, magazines, nor DVDs at a store that I thought was going to be just like The Home Depot or Lowes---yet that stuff was all being sold there!
phrankenstign Thanks guys! I thought I'd stepped into the Twilight Zone for a moment, because I was so sure I'd seen the Lionel name on the train stuff at Menards when I first visited their store in (or near) Sheboygan. I'd never expected to see trains, magazines, nor DVDs at a store that I thought was going to be just like The Home Depot or Lowes---yet that stuff was all being sold there!
I stopped by my local Menards a couple of days ago to look at the $7.99 ($4.99 with rebate) flat cars. There was a platsic tray of them - about 20 or so. Clearly the price is very modest - but I was a little disappointed with the quality. A couple of cars had bound trucks - and all of them had wheels that were not smooth / polished. Since the ends of the axle sort of "bounce around" in slots in the plastic truck sides, they had a lot of play in them. I thought about getting a couple for my 2YO but decided to take a pass. I applaud their jumping into this space - but personally I wish they were a bit more expensive but of higher quality.
I didn't buy any of the sealed one they had (such as the military flatcars) - has anyone found they are of similar quality or are they manufactured differently?
I did buy some of the track they had - will post a separate thread on that in the next few days after a bit more experience with it...
IT consultant by day, 3rd generation Lionel guy (raising a 3YO 4th generation Lionel Lil' Man) by night in the suburbs of the greatest city in the world - Chicago. Home of the ever-changing Illinois Concretus Ry.
One thing we can all agree on, Menard's certainly has stepped into the hobby in a big way, filling the void left from the exit of some long time manufacturers. They certainly are not the same-ol-same-ol with the their product line. Are they collector quality? Heck no. Do they have play value? Yep. (Gotta love the military and rocket flats). Do you get what you pay for? Of course. Can you tinker with them and make them better? With a little effort, yes. (And you'll probably read it on future threads.)
K-Line certainly got better over time. In the meantime, I like Menard's approach to our hobby.
fifedog One thing we can all agree on, Menard's certainly has stepped into the hobby in a big way, filling the void left from the exit of some long time manufacturers. They certainly are not the same-ol-same-ol with the their product line.
One thing we can all agree on, Menard's certainly has stepped into the hobby in a big way, filling the void left from the exit of some long time manufacturers. They certainly are not the same-ol-same-ol with the their product line.
Completely agree - I commend them for a continuing (and growing) commitment. Perhaps more on the retailing side than even the manufacturing side. Is there a bigger retailer that regularly stocks Lionel / O gauge items around the holidays?
fifedog Are they collector quality? Heck no. Do they have play value? Yep. (Gotta love the military and rocket flats). Do you get what you pay for? Of course. Can you tinker with them and make them better? With a little effort, yes. (And you'll probably read it on future threads.)
Are they collector quality? Heck no. Do they have play value? Yep. (Gotta love the military and rocket flats). Do you get what you pay for? Of course. Can you tinker with them and make them better? With a little effort, yes. (And you'll probably read it on future threads.)
I agree that for the current price point you cannot find anything close. The cost of even "basic" Lionel equipment has more than outpaced inflation and, I would think, keeps (or certainly doesn't attract) portions of the "next generation" from taking it up. Cheaper alternatives are IMHO a necessary part of this hobby, as not everyone has want (or financial means) for the more superior products. My suggestion is more one of whether the price point of those cars are too low. In aggregate would customers be willing to pay, say, $10 a car (instead of $5) for something that has a bit more fit, finish, and durability.
Product development in any industry is always an evolution - nothing would please me more than to see Menards succeed in their first foray into manufacturing.
I think selling a shoddy product for $5 hurts the hobby more than anything. Doubling the cost to $10 is 100% markup, but I think it would be worth it to have good rolling wheels. Back in the early 90s, I got back into the hobby. At the time, I saw ads for K-Line trains. They seemed to offer quite a lot of stuff for very reasonable prices. Upon close inspection, it was obvious their quality wasn't in the same category as Lionel's. Basic features weren't satisfactorily produced. Many of the knuckle couplers simply did NOT work. Some kept opening, some wouldn't open, and only a handful actually worked well consistently. Some of the trucks didn't turn smoothly. The gondolas came with crates that had bottoms (unlike Lionel's bottomless canisters). The crate bottoms were problematic, because they wouldn't rest flatly on the unrecessed bolt holding the trucks. Duh!??? One could balance the end crates on the bolts (as K-Line did in their front, inside cover ads), but the crates would move and rest unevenly as soon as the engine pulled them. Despite my initial disappointment, I took a chance and joined their K-Line Collector's Club to get the club car. I wanted to find out whether the die-cast, sprung trucks and couplers the club car had were any better. As it turned out, they were. The newsletter, "K-Line Connection" promised improvements were coming soon to their entire line---separately applied ladders, brake wheels, under-carriage detailing, etc. Although I don't remember them mentioning it, they did improve their couplers too. The superior quality of their club car gave me a good feeling that perhaps they WERE seriously attempting to improve---at least I knew they were capable of doing a good job. Luckily for them, I took a chance when I joined their club. If I hadn't, I would have stopped buying their products.
Wheels are basic things that should work smoothly from the start. Otherwise potential hobbyists seeking something to get into may turn away immediately to look for something that they can have fun with on a budget for starters. That's one thing Scout and Scout-like sets have in common. They may be inexpensive, but most continue to run reliably for years with minimal maintenance.
I applaud Menards' attempt to make trains as inexpensive to the consumer as possible. However they need to maintain a certain level of quality to draw new customers into the hobby and to keep the old ones coming back.
K-Line made a commitment to improve their quality, and they followed through. They made impressive improvements within a relatively short time. Hopefully Menards will do the same.
I would say of the Menards rolling stock I have, comparing it to the Lionel rolling stock I have and both are made in China the Menards is every bit as good if not better on the cars with the diecast spring trucks. Detail is better in some cases. As for the Menards $7.99 flat cars with the plastic trucks to me Lionel’s MPC were just as bad. Even worse on detail. So I am very pleased with the value of the Manards offers and find it a bright light in my limited cash flow I have to spend on my trains. When I can get two or three cars for the price of one Lionel. I am all in.
Overall in my experience, Lionel through the years has produced plenty of shoddy product and still are in some lines. So best to check before you buy any product.
Menards sells Lionel sets, and other non Lionel O scale. I have two of the box trucks and one F350 flatbed trucks that Menards advertises as 1:48 but my receipt at checkout listed them all as 1:43. Sorry, 1:43 is to big for my liking. I'd like to buy buildings but my budget and layout are both lacking. I do have the beautiful Alaska blue flat car with load, CN box car, Wisconsin Central and Soo flat cars. I emailed Menards in the last year suggesting a DM&E train set with an SD40-2 but never got a reply.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
KRM As for the Menards $7.99 flat cars with the plastic trucks to me Lionel’s MPC were just as bad. Even worse on detail.
As for the Menards $7.99 flat cars with the plastic trucks to me Lionel’s MPC were just as bad. Even worse on detail.
I take it you're more of a scale guy than a toy train guy. I can appreciate layouts that are designed with strict scaling in mind through out. However I like operating cars and accessories, and many of them vary widely in scales despite all being designed for use with O gauge trains. That's why you'll see Thomas the Tank Engine pulling the pig car as its sweeper and TV camerman roll past the gateman. You may even see Mickey and Minnie outrace him down the parallel straightaways. Oftentimes, I set up Large Scale or HO trains alongside the O gauge track. My Large Scale James does have a tendency to allow Barbie and her friends to ride his Troublesome Trucks from time to time. I don't think Barbie is 1/48 scale (more like 1/6), but James doesn't seem to mind.
I wonder how many different scales Lionel has used for all of their railroad related cars and accessories. I don't think I've ever seen a list detailing the approximate scale of each one. Surely the Gate Man must be a giant compared to many of the others---gang car, barrel loader, cherry picker, etc.
I think the Lionel Gateman is a direct relative of the K-Line speeder guys.
I have MPC cars with plactic pins that hold the trucks to the car body. Now that is cheap. But they work great for the grand-kids use. Also helps me keep my BP down what that are at the controls.
fifedog One thing we can all agree on, Menard's certainly has stepped into the hobby in a big way, filling the void left from the exit of some long time manufacturers. They certainly are not the same-ol-same-ol with the their product line. Are they collector quality? Heck no. Do they have play value? Yep. (Gotta love the military and rocket flats). Do you get what you pay for? Of course. Can you tinker with them and make them better? With a little effort, yes. (And you'll probably read it on future threads.) K-Line certainly got better over time. In the meantime, I like Menard's approach to our hobby.
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