LIONEL's Pioneer Zephyr Set---qualified just OK OPINION

[AlanRail]

OPINION

I just rec'd my Lionel Shiny Pioneer Zephyr set. I guess I had grand expectations, or maybe the MTH RailKing version I have jaded my perception. So If you dont have an MTH one it would not matter to you. I wanted the Lionel one to exceed the MTH Premier version; I dont think that it does that or is worth replacing for even the RailKing version.

BUT..

the engine is gleaming. one issue with shimmering things is that you expect the shine to be flawless; like a sparkly silver ring; This engine is not. Flawless;

For one thing just above the mail car part of the engine above and slightly to the right of the hatch door; on the fluted roof there is the first imperfection; I saw this on the model that was on display at my Dealer; so I thought maybe only his could be that bad. Not so, the one I have has the exact same flaw. It looks like some one pressed three small circles on the flutes. The circles are intertwined looking like the three top circles of the Olympics insignia. Although agreeably slight in appearance, well, on a shiny surface it is noticeable;

On the first shiny rectangular panel above the "Burlington " and to the front of the engines there are a number of pits in this panel; You do have to move the engine to get the reflection right in order to see them; again a slight flaw.

There are other parts of the cars that are also marred such as the top panel on the trailing obs. car.

I did not like that the 9900 number board is not lighted unlike the MTH Premier version.

In other areas the detail on the Lionel is far better that the Railking version, but the RailKing version looks better on 072 curves. However, the three-car set from Lionel although scale doesn't look good rounding an 072 curve, as does the shorter (not scale) RailKing.

The rubber RailKing vestibules are lousy in that they do not follow the cars when on curves. Although I 'm not crazy about the metal ones from Lionel, they do follow the car perfectly on curves than MTH's.

The Lionel trucks are cowelled much better than either of the MTH versions and are not press-ons. I doubt hat the Lionel version will hang up on switches.

Interestingly although the Lionel is shorter and sleeker ( to scale) than the RailKing version that is much higher; the lettering on the Lionel is much bigger than the taller (though much shorter in length and not to scale) Railking version.

The doors don’t open in either version for those who like opening doors.

INTERIORS

The Lionel interiors are better lit and more detailed that the RailKing version that just has seating without people;
In the rear Obs car, the people make you better feel the rounded elliptical end of the obs. car. However the supporting post visible in the Lionel ( not the Railking) is just annoying. The end lounge is of course much bigger on the Lionel; It seems larger than the actual car in the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. However the Rail King version of the lounge area is much much smaller.

Conclusion

I think I will be returning my Lionel and stay with the RailKing MTH

Alan

[Anonymous]

Just bought this train from dealer.Has anyone gotten a satisfactory answer from Lionel why this poor quality was allowed. Does the roof flaw appear on all sets. Will this be the quality of the Acela? My train never opened had motor loose on truck and pickup wire broken.

[Anonymous]

Alan,

I found your critique to be quite interesting and informative.

I have both the MTH Premier version and the new Lionel version of the Pioneer Zephyr.

I have seen three Lionel Zephyrs, all have the flaw on the roof of the second car. Also annoying is the fact that the headlight shines out through the radiator grill on the nose. From what I have read, the quality of the finished castings varies-I believe that I got a very good one.

As far as looks go, I still like the looks of the Lionel version better.

Both run well, but the MTH version runs better, but that is due to the PS-2 electronics (120 speed steps vs. 32, smoother cruise control, etc). My Lionel will have to be taken apart to find out why the front truck jams occasionally.

Sound is about the same, with the MTH being slightly better due to the 8 throttle notches as opposed to Lionel's four. Both got the horn wrong.

As a side note, I substituted Aerotrain diaphrams on the Premier Zephyr and it closed the gap somewhat. Lionel definitely did a better job in this area.

Ultimatley the best of both worlds might be a Lionel Zephyr with PS-2 electronics.

[Anonymous]

The MTH version has the 1950's emd 567 block diesel engine and the pionner according to the diesel loco spotters guide had a early 4 cycle diesel and that sounds way different than the 2 cycle engne in the mth.
The lionel M 10,000 got the old distlate engine right on the nose in case any of you are interested.

[Anonymous]

Dave (Northern1),

I believe the Diesel Spotters Guide is in error. According to the official website for the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry, the original 201A engine in the Pioneer Zephyr was of the two cycle variety.

http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/zephyr/funfacts/powerplant/powerplant.html

If Lionel somehow found and recorded a four cycle diesel for their Zephyr, then their sound is incorrect (I doubt this is the case).

[AlanRail]

I returned the Lionel Zephyr in October. Oddly, the one I returned is still sitting on my dealer's shelf.

I thought the gleam on the Lionel Zephyr although correct compared to the one on display at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry, was not correct scale-wise. I am not certain how to explain this point, since we look at colors on the actual engines and want them to match the color on the scale engines.
It just seemed that there was too much gleam on Lionel's Zephyr scaled down version and in that scale the gleam would be less or to scale with the engine. It looked toy-like as a plastic-metallic toy.

I don’t know what "scale-gleam" really is? But it appeared to me that the Lionel Zephyr was too shiny for its size.

The other defects in the roof, the non-operating doors and the plastic-toy like appearances were the reasons that I took it back



Alan

[Anonymous]

Rak402
"I substituted Aerotrain diaphrams on the Premier Zephyr and it closed the gap somewhat"
I have the MTH Premier Zephur & have always been very unhappym with the diaphrams.
I believe the Rail King version came with two sets of diaprhams (one skinney & one fat) I have always wanted to find someone with bot engines that could tell me if the "fat" ones from the Rail King would fit & work better on the Premier????
That said, it looks like you have another alternative. Are the Aero diamphrams MTH and does anyone have a part#. Also, do they snap in or do they take some modification?
Any help would very much be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim

[laz 57]

Another GLADYS KRAVITZ?!?!
laz57

[Anonymous]

Jim,

The Aerotrain diaphrams do not fit exactly. The rubber pins do not line up as the holes in the bulkheads are in a slightly different location. The diaphrams are also slightly taller and required that I cut about 1/4 inch off the bottom in order to fit the Premier Zephyr.

I apologize that I do not have any part numbers. My Aerotrain came with two sets of diaphragms-one for tight curves and one for wide curves. I used the ones for wide curves on the Zephyr.

It does not cure the problem, but it helps. I believe that I left one stock diaphragm and replaced one stock diaphragm at each truck.

[Anonymous]

Thanks. Makes me wonder if the Aero diaphrams & the RailKing Zephyr diaphrams are the same. I've never tried to look-up MTH part numbers. Can it be done on there web site?

[Anonymous]

Jim,

You should be able to find the part number on the MTH website. If you obtain it, I would appreciate it if you would post it, as I will be purchasing more of these.

Again, they help, but do not cure, the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anyone out there with the Rail King and Premier Zephur that can answer if the "fat" Rail King diaphrams will fit the Preimer?