Northwoods Flyer .... Did I actually buy a recognizable set? ... The #999 engine runs well and has lots of pulling power. Part of the reason that I bought it is because I really like the Pacemaker color scheme. I don't have much Marx but I'm happy to make a contribution to your effort....
.... Did I actually buy a recognizable set?
unlike some other manufacturers who's yearly catalogs specified exact set configurations, Marx sets seem to be more free-form often at most only stating "4 car freight train" or "3 car passenger set" in advertisements with the contents only vaguely being described. many of these #999/ wedge tender headed sets contained a boxcar, gondola and tank along with either the Reading or NYC caboose. some of these cars, as i mentioned, are seen a bit more often than others, but aside from the two or three i described as being less common, i wouldn't consider the majority of the 3/16" scale cars very hard to locate.
actually the number of commonly available scale cars works out to be a very convenient number. although the #999 is indeed a great little puller with the standard 4-5 car set, when you get closer to 10-12 cars, the drag of the consist will start to strain the #999's ability with a noticeable loss of traction starting around that length consist. and even if you get all those axles well cleaned and lubricated, 15+ scale cars will start to challenge the holding ability of the automatic couplers.
for the most reliable operation, keeping freight trains at 8-10 well maintained cars as a maximum load is a guideline i try to follow. don't forget, Marx locomotives are meant to top out at ~12vac.
Northwoods Flyer This is a group of equipment that I bought. Did I actually buy a recognizable set?
This is a group of equipment that I bought. Did I actually buy a recognizable set?
I'm not too good with remembering set numbers, but that is a set I definitely know. What you have is a postwar 25249 set. I personally have that set, in a way it kind of got me into 3/16 scale.
Trevor
Thank You gary and Trevor,
I appreciate any information that I can get about the items in my collection. I like the 3/16" line that Marx produced. In size it reminds me of the American Flyer S gauge equipment that I have collected and the lithography is really nice.
Questions: Are all of the items in the 3/16 scale line pictured (or at least described) in the previous posts? It is definitely a manageable amount of examples. Did Marx actually produce consumer catalogs as Flyer and Lionel did, or were they strictly catalogs available to dealers and large accounts? I haven't heard of anyone being a Marx paper collector.
I did a search on eBay of "Marx train sets" and I can see that as gary says many of the sets have a similar configuration; mainly of 3,4 or 5 cars.
While these are not the best photos I have picked up several more of the Pacemaker cars. I think they make a nice consist, and the #999 has no difficulty hauling them around the Blueboard Central.
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Northwoods Flyer I am experiencing a powerful urge to add these lithographed cars to my collection.
I am experiencing a powerful urge to add these lithographed cars to my collection.
tjl0824 I'm not too good with remembering set numbers, but that is a set I definitely know. What you have is a postwar 25249 set. I personally have that set, in a way it kind of got me into 3/16 scale.
though the Greenberg Volume III, Marx Sets, is far from a comprehensive listing, it does hint at a bit of organization among what otherwise might seem to be random set number assignments. within those number ranges, the 25xxx sets seem to have the greatest number of (A), (B), etc entries which were created when identically numbered and well documented sets proved to contain similar, but different pieces. whereas one set might contain the NIAX tank car, another might have a Shell tanker, or a UP boxcar might be substituted for the NYC Pacemaker.
i have no doubt Trevor's 25249 set is original, but if someone were to show me a 25249 set with a NYNH&H car as the set boxcar or a NKP rather than the B&O gondola; a set they'll swear they've had since they were a kid, i wouldn't doubt them, either.
probably why i prefer collecting cars rather than sets. out of ~ two dozen 3/16" scale cars on hand, i doubt if there is an original set i couldn't put together. alternately i can make up two trains, a work train and a goods train and pretty much show off the entire Marx 3/16" scale freight car line at once.
Northwoods... nice start at a scale NYC Pacemaker unit train, one of my favorites that i put together with the 6" tin NYC cars from time to time. one of these days i'm going to get the hang of making videos.
cheers...gary
[edit: interesting... when you put an "A" or a "B" inside brackets, it makes a & , ...good to know; a test i did for other rebus doodles - here]
While on the topic, here's a video of some of my 3/16th scale
watch?v=9kLUsnl5E6g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kLUsnl5E6g
Here are some Marx items I bought last year for one of my daughters. It's a mixed lot but when put together looks nice running around the tracks.
Since I don't have a great book to identify them all maybe someone can fill in the blanks.
locomotive # 400 ca. 1953-54.
Tender?
Hopper #554 ca. 1935-40, 1946 & 1950.
Gondola #91254 ca. 1957.
Caboose # 20102.
My nephew this weekend bought the same #400 locomotive however it's a wind-up with the "Rubber Bulb smoke puffer". You place baby powder in it and instead of smoke you get powder.
Just a thought. On some of the cars, you will notice it on my Gondola if you blow it up, there are the words and numbers NEW 1-57 and BLT 1-57. And since as I have mention my reference books aren't great but does this indicate when it was actually made? I have seen different numbers on other cars following BLT before and was just checking.
Thanks,
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
AF53 Here are some Marx items I bought last year for one of my daughters. It's a mixed lot but when put together looks nice running around the tracks. Since I don't have a great book to identify them all maybe someone can fill in the blanks. locomotive # 400 ca. 1953-54. Tender? Hopper #554 ca. 1935-40, 1946 & 1950. Gondola #91254 ca. 1957. Caboose # 20102. My nephew this weekend bought the same #400 locomotive however it's a wind-up with the "Rubber Bulb smoke puffer". You place baby powder in it and instead of smoke you get powder. Just a thought. On some of the cars, you will notice it on my Gondola if you blow it up, there are the words and numbers NEW 1-57 and BLT 1-57. And since as I have mention my reference books aren't great but does this indicate when it was actually made? I have seen different numbers on other cars following BLT before and was just checking.
it probably is a pieced together set, but not really that far off. the #400 is usually paired with a 4-wh plastic tender, but what you have is a (3551) sometimes referred to as a notch tender due to the formed metal shell shape. i may have mentioned this notation before, but often when i refer to a car without a visible number, but one that had a known catalog number, i will tend to enclose that number within parenthesis. i also just corrected an error in one of these numbers having recently referred to the scale wedge tender as a (551) instead of (951). frankly i hardly ever use that particular number as most Marx collectors simply refer to that piece as the "wedge" tender, named for its wedge shape when viewed from above.
but the #400 was sometimes combined with 6" tin consists and is found with the 20102 NYC caboose in many sets. fortunately you also have the NYC version of the (3551) tender (also made as UP), so again, it does look very passable as a valid Marx set.
the Seaboard gondola was, in fact, made in 1957, but i'm not all that sure it would be a good rule of thumb to always trust the printed Built/ New Date. you have a red Seaboard gondola and although all versions are numbered 91257, it can also be found in blue and brown.
the #554 NP high sided gondola is also an interesting 6" car as it is easily noticeable as the same graphic as the #554 NP hopper but likely a cost-cutting step in producing the easier to construct gondola.
the #400 clockwork with smoke is a very nice find if it still works. many of the bulbs in those became brittle with age and are usually found nonfunctional. i don't believe replacement bulbs are available.
Marx 6" tin has to be my favorite of all the Marx types with the car variations running into the 100's. a few of the 6" boxcar and reefer types have multiple numbers which makes putting together some unit trains not only possible, but fun to run and listen to all those metal wheels hopping down the track.
one annoying glitch with the operating doors on some of these cars, however, is their tendency to gradually slide open while in motion. sometimes it's only one side, but after a few minutes of running, practically the entire train will have open doors. getting tired of this operation, i came up with a near-zero cost solution...
happy trails...gary
My father has a working, boxed, channel track freight train "NYC" 5151 engine. It must be the larger set as it has two coal cars and the two on the the unmarked cars. You mentioned these would be very rare. How rare are they and what are they worth.
My father says he has taken this to multiple people and they had never seen one before.
Gary Lane (glane0813@gmail.com)
firelane My father has a working, boxed, channel track freight train "NYC" 5151 engine. It must be the larger set as it has two coal cars and the two on the the unmarked cars. You mentioned these would be very rare. How rare are they and what are they worth.
channel track ref.
the train or at least pieces of that train come up for sale occasionally, but i've only seen the track a few times and have never seen a complete box. i have a suspicion about the transformer included as it was probably the same as the electric speedway set.
it sure would be nice to see some set pictures; box, etc(?) ...or a video?
as to value, there are a few things to consider other than the condition. Marx doesn't have the collector audience that Lionel or Flyer have and being a channel track train narrows down the field even more. it's also very hard to predict what a single rare item will bring. just knowing it's a complete, working train and assuming a moderate C6-ish condition has to put it in at least the few hundred dollar range as a low estimate, but where it could go from there with the right audience would really just be a guess at best.
one thing i would check, if you can lift the locomotive body off the frame... given enough time, if the flint facing the sparking wheel is worn down completely, the wheel will eventually grind through the metal holder. you want to avoid that happening.
How do you wire a Marx 495 electric locomotive with two postition reversing unit?????
Mine was in parts and I'm trying to get it to stop burning...
as simple as Marx electric motors are to work on, with their compactness and wire routes that take advantage of the natural voids in the design, they are equally as difficult to describe in words. by (495) i assume you are referring to what is generally known as a CP (after Canadian Pacific) type. the easiest thing i could suggest is to look around for a perhaps cosmetically challenged, but working example, swap the motor out of that one, or use it as a guide to rebuild your original piece(s). everyone needs at least two locomotives, right?
overlandflyer as simple as Marx electric motors are to work on, with their compactness and wire routes that take advantage of the natural voids in the design, they are equally as difficult to describe in words. by (495) i assume you are referring to what is generally known as a CP (after Canadian Pacific) type. the easiest thing i could suggest is to look around for a perhaps cosmetically challenged, but working example, swap the motor out of that one, or use it as a guide to rebuild your original piece(s). everyone needs at least two locomotives, right? cheers...gary
Thanks... Do you have a wiring schematic I could use or a spare CP engine lying around???
tinplatacis overlandflyer as simple as Marx electric motors are to work on, with their compactness and wire routes that take advantage of the natural voids in the design, they are equally as difficult to describe in words. by (495) i assume you are referring to what is generally known as a CP (after Canadian Pacific) type. the easiest thing i could suggest is to look around for a perhaps cosmetically challenged, but working example, swap the motor out of that one, or use it as a guide to rebuild your original piece(s). everyone needs at least two locomotives, right? cheers...gary Thanks... Do you have a wiring schematic I could use or a spare CP engine lying around???
Does anybody know what this set is worth??? It's Lionel, but since most of my Marx cars are modified for use with Lionels, just wondering...
Says it's outfit 501, has a NW-2 #610, boxcar #X6014, gon #6012, tank #6015, caboose #6017
I do love Marx as my first set was a Marx during Christmas sometime in the WWII period. Of course it was pre-war, but my father and uncle made sure I had one.
I purchased the new Marx price guide, when they first came out. But is does not give values of sets. I have several mint in the box Marx sets, both plasitic and tin, all 3/16" scale and no way to accurately value their worth.
Greenberg published a Marx Sets book in 1991, but it has never been updated and though many sets can be found in that text it is far from a comprehensive list.
Marx did very little promotion to the public but rather relied on stores to advertise sets through their own catalogs, so unlike Lionel and American Flyer, there were no yearly consumer catalogs. on top of that, Marx did not generally advertise sets with specific cars. a 3/16" scale steam set was usually composed of an engine, tender, boxcar, tank car, gondola and caboose. just exactly what freight cars were included might depend on what cars were on the shelf the day the set was boxed and shipped.
Marx cars also tended to be made for many more years than Lionel or Flyer. and with a total inventory being a small fraction of what Lionel produced, sets are not generally as collectible with Marx. for example, in 3/16" scale, for all the years of production, there are only about two dozen freight cars, total. with two or three locomotives and the two cabooses, i have the ability to put together any scale set Marx ever produced.
many of the valuable Lionel or Flyer sets obtain that status due to a piece or two only being found in one specific set. aside from a few examples, this was generally not the case with Marx.
that is not to say that boxed Marx sets are valueless, but whereas a complete boxed Lionel set might add an additional 40% or more to merely having the train alone, with Marx, in most cases, you're probably only looking at another 10% or so. as with most sets, they do tend to pick up a little more value with age. that is, having a box for a prewar set would be much more desirable than a boxed 1950's set, but again, nothing like i've seen people value boxed prewar Lionel.
In this day and age, one resource we do have available to help determine value of an item is online auctions, ie, Ebay and the like. If you can find an item that is in similar condition to yours, watch the auction and see what it sells for. Obviously, this approach has its limitations, but for items that are at least somewhat common, it will give you an idea of the value. Don't forget to factor in shipping charges as part of the value. One thing to be wary of is the "Buy It Now" prices - the seller can ASK any price they want, but finding someone to PAY that price is another story. We have all seen common, everyday items on BIN at a ridiculous price. The auction at least shows what someone was actually willing to pay for an item, backed up by the fact that someone else was willing to pay almost as much.
Selling prices at train shows or regular auctions may be different than what you see online. For one, I am willing to pay more when I see an item in person rather than in pictures - no surprises, I can see everything I want from any angle, up close & personal. Also, I don't have to pay shipping charges at a show, so I am willing to pay that much more for the item. Rare items at an auction may command better prices than online for the same reasons, but also because there may be more promotion resulting in more bidders that are serious about buying the item, established provenance that is available for examination, and the fact that an auction house is putting its reputation on the line for the authenticity of the item.
In the end, it's like an old friend of the family used to say, "A thing is only worth what two fools can agree on.." :>)
- James
Wow what a great thread, I have been away for a while but will be getting back to addressing my Marx tinplate layout, which I will be rebuilding slightly larger this winter (hopefully). I sold off almost all my non-marx or non 0-27 stuff in my O collection to make room for a few more Marx pieces.
Here is my layout:
watch?v=jzpSJi8 QRk&feature=share&list=UUrUkVNWoC7txLnsbdfOQFgA
Have fun with your trains
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