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More Track Power

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More Track Power
Posted by RRaddict on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:22 AM

Can I connect an additional 14 V power source directly to my track to have a more of a balance of power on the layout?

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Posted by Seayakbill on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:54 AM

What wattage is the primary power source. Both transformers will have to be in phase to prevent shorting out.

Bill T.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:57 AM

I think you're proposing to connect two transformers in parallel.  Don't.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:23 PM

Get a more powerful transformer, don't try to connect two of them!  A ZW can power almost any configuration you could want in a single train.  If you're running command/control, with multiple trains, you may need more power.

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Posted by RRaddict on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:31 PM

I was going to connect just the 14V AC out from the transformer but I wont now. Is there anything I can do to getting a more even distrbution of power. I still have a few conventional Locomotives that are PW and seem to need a lot more power. Any suggestions would be great.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:41 PM

Run your trains on the track, where they slow down or stop add another power drop back to the transformer.

Most of us having a power bus running under the layout, this allows for adding multiple drops without too much effort (from a wiring stand point).

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Posted by RRaddict on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:41 PM

I have a ZW 1000 100 watt transformer but the PW locomotives don't seem to have the power as with the old giant 275 watt  Lionel transformer. Maybe I need to invest in the Giant MTH transformer but that costs an arm and a leg.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:54 PM

When you write "ZW 1000", do you mean the MTH Z-1000?  If your transformer's overcurrent protection doesn't trip, your problem is not too little power.  More likely it can't put out enough voltage for your trains.  I think the Z-1000 puts out 18 volts; a real ZW goes up to 21 volts.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by RRaddict on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 3:25 PM

That's it an MTH Z1000, ok so a new transformer is in order than. Will there be a problem with my Protosound 2 Locos or is this made by MTH?

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Posted by Seayakbill on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:49 AM

My layout is 25 x 25 with 3 main lines and numerous sidings per main line. Each main line is powered by a Lionel 135 watt brick feeding into a MTH TIU. There is no issues with power drops at the farthest points, I do have power leads at 3 to 4 points on each main line.

 If you are not getting enough power with a 100 watt transformer I would first check your wiring to confirm that you have equal voltage distribution around you layout. Use your voltmeter to check your voltage every 5 feet or so on your main line.

Bill T.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 8:32 AM

Testing of track voltage has to be done with the train running.  Voltage drop through high track resistance is proportional to the current that the train draws--no train, no current, no voltage drop.  Without a load, even track with so much resistance as to be useless will look fine, and especially so with a high-quality voltmeter.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 9:15 AM

RRaddict - I got your PM. I'll try to explain here.

Think of tubular track and the power terminal lockons. That would be a power drop. The 'drop' referring to the wire from the track 'dropping' through the subroadbed (plywood) then back to the transformer or to a power bus that runs under the layout that is connected to the transformer.

Hope this helps.

Your PW locos should run fine with a Z1000 - as long as you aren't running multiple trains on the same main, or you aren't running long passenger car consists.

Also, if your track is tubular you may have some weak track joints. Adding additional lockons and wiring them back to the transformer should help. Just keep in mind that you MUST run ALL of the center rail wires to the same terminal and ALL of the outer rail wires to the other terminal. If you cross them you could damage the engines, transformer, etc.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 3:47 PM

I'm guessing that there is some confusion over various uses of the word "drop".  I think this is what is going on:

When Brent first mentioned "power drop", he meant a connection from a bus to the track.  "Drop" is used in electrical power distribution to mean the connection between the distribution transformer and a building, in which wires typically "drop" from the transformer to the service entrance.  The word is however also used when these wires come up from an underground conduit or, as in Brent's toy-train analogy, up from a bus under the table.

I think that when Bill wrote "power drop" he meant instead what I would (and did) call "voltage drop", that is, the decrease in voltage over the distance between the transformer to the train due to the current drawn by the train passing through the resistance of the track and particularly through the track joints.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by servoguy on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 8:09 PM

If you are having trouble running an engine with a transformer that puts out 18 volts, you have some problem with the engine or some very bad wiring.  Have you lubed the engine and all the cars?  I have a 2333 that will start and pull a 10 car train at about 8 volts.  

BB

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Posted by lionelsoni on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 10:51 PM

However, some locomotives--the 773 in particular--need surprisingly high voltage.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Thursday, June 30, 2011 8:55 AM

Hard to believe that an 18 volt transformer won't run any properly working train at a pretty good clip.

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Posted by RRaddict on Thursday, June 30, 2011 10:02 AM

It's strange because my old Lionel 275 watt transformer sends the locomotive around the layout fast. and the MTH transformer doesn't move it fast at all, not slow but not fast either.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Thursday, June 30, 2011 10:51 AM

Not strange at all:  The Z-1000 puts out 18 volts; the ZW puts out 21 volts.  Your trains would move even faster with a 24-volt Z transformer.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Thursday, June 30, 2011 8:11 PM

What's strange is that it requires that much power to move the train at a good pace.  I can't think of any of my locomotives, with the exception of a couple of little switchers, that 18 volts won't roll them off the rails on the curves!

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Posted by RRaddict on Friday, July 1, 2011 10:32 AM

Can I disassemble the trucks to check and see if lubrication is a problem? I cannot tell from the outside as all the gears are encased in the trucks. If the gears are dry do I need to lubricate with grease or oil?

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Posted by lionelsoni on Friday, July 1, 2011 10:59 AM

Yes.  You can probably find how to take your locomotives apart here:  http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd1.htm

Bob Nelson

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