I see that some have expressed concern that tuner cleaner may leave a residue. But I have a Marx motor that is not easily disassembled to provide access for manual cleaning (the one in the M10005). Is it reasonable to use the Radio Shack tuner cleaner to try to clean the face of the armature?
I used it on my Marx Armatures and it worked great with a very noticeable improvement in performance on three different engines. I also changed out the brushes and lightly oiled the bearings. Some of them have a small absorbent wick that can be filled lightly..if you go overboard, you'll end up where you started.
I also used to it unstick the reverser.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
I have used contact cleaner also, after cleaning the commutator with a soft pencil eraser. To be thorough if you are just cleaning, take out the old brushes and note exactly which brush came off from which brush tube, and in what position. Clean our the brush tubes too. Then put the brushes back in exactly the same as they came out. They should reseat perfectly.
I agree with Wallyworld. Re-install new brushes if the old ones look worn, shorter than the originals.......or replace both brushes and brush springs. Go very light on the beaing lubrication. You'll be good to go for a long time.
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
Jack, I would prefer to take the motor apart and clean it manually, but these particular motors were not built for easy disassembly. Therefore, I think my best option would be the tuner cleaner. I am hoping that other people on the board might have thoughts/suggestions/reactions. Thanks.
Thanks, Bruce. The problem with this Marx motor is that it does not even have a removable brush plate, so you are not able to access the armature directly. The brushes, however, can be romoved as they are held in place with small springs and are accessed from the outside of the motor housing.
I would not use Radio Shack tuner cleaner because it has a lube built in it. I use electronic contact and switch cleaner. It leaves no residue. If you oil the commutator I hope you love taking it part and redoing the cleaning job. Thats nutz.
Rob
If there will be no disassembly, get a can of compressed air to blow out as much of the residuue after you apply the cleaner. Like the stuff to clean keyboards.
Bruce......you never saw some of the brushes that came out of my childhood trains.....or what was left of them.
Thanks Rob and others for the suggestion to use contact cleaner instead. As for oiling, I think I have seen fairly common advice to lightly oil or grease the armature shaft.
This link suggests that...http://www.thortrains.net/marstart.html
Are you suggesting no lubrication at all?
The armature shaft needs to be lubricated. Most folks, would advise against lubricating brushes or the commutator surface. The brushes are self-lubricating. A google search on "Carbon Brush Selection" will yield all one is likely to want to know about brushes. Wet lubricants attract dust and dirt.About 80 percent of the problems I've encountered in forty years of repairing toy trains were related to either overlubrication, or putting lubricants where they didn't belong.
I have used the Radio Shack cleaner on the drums of reversing units with no adverse effect. I really like that stuff.
Rich
Alton Junction
Bruce, I think your experience is fairly unique. If there are others who beleive lubricating the commutator or brushes is a good idea, I wish they would speak up.
Only in the sense that no one has tried it. Thinking outside the boxes.....
A while back I read a Caig labs article that ecommended using one of their lubricants as a commutator lube. It think it may have been their MCL grease. Regardless, I tried doing this on one of the motors I was servicing at that time. I put just a bit on each segment, spread it, and then wiped it all away with a clean rag. In theory, I think that should have left a very thin film. I didn't notice any immediate difference in the way the engine ran, but over a period of weeks, the performance grew poor. I recleaned the engine, and replaced the brushes to restore it's proper operation. I do think there is a wide difference in aftermarket brush quality. I have some brushes that I purchased over thirty years ago that I won't use because they are too hard. At the time, they were they only game in town. (The parts guy that had them made is still around, and i am certain he meant well). But once softer brushes became availalbe, I switched to them. My favorites are the coppery-slivery brushes that MPC sold for a while. I purchased a bunch from Madison Hardware when they were in NYC. The brushes from George Tebolt and Town & Country are OK too.
Bruce, you are not the only guy who has extensive electrical/electronics background. I have been working in that field since 1984. I have been around motors, amplydynes, servos, syncro's, generators, and any type of ac or dc electric motors you can think of. I never saw anyone ever lube a commutator nor was it ever required in my US Navy radar missle fire control equipment or training. If it seems to work for you, ok. On my Lionel engines anything more than a small drop of oil on the armature shafts will end up on the commutator face and result in slow motors that have to be torn down and cleaned. I tried one time using Atlas conductive lube on a commutator face and shortly there after ended up having to tear it down again to re-clean. When I was doing competitive slot car racing one guy I knew well used to put conductive lube oil on his commutators before a race to gain speed but we always tore the cars down after each race. Me personally, I would not recommend using any oil on commutators. I hate cleaning motors.
Roger
I don't have the background that Roger or Bruce have Only forty years repairing toy trains, and past history working at a job where one of my responsiblities was tending to antique (1920-30's) open frame motors They ranged in size from small fractional horsepower exhaust fans motors to a motor that was almost the size of a volkswagon bug. That particular motor drove a centrifical compressor that used methylene choloride as a refrigerant. I always felt a bit like I was in Dr. Frankenstein's lab when I was operating the air conditioning system. Lots of steps to start it up!I don't remember the tonnage of the system, but it was sized to cool a 3,500 seat theater, and people generate a lot of heat.
I can assure everyone those brushes were not lubricated, and lubrication was used sparingly where it was needed.
This is always an interesting topic.
But there are so many other things that would affect the performance of a motor. My experience is mostly with can motors. We are not building speed machines here nor dynoing them for performance. Although, I'm sure we would all appreciate a strong motor with a nice balance of speed and torque but which keeps amps at a reasonable level. I would opt for a motor that is efficient.
As far as oil on the brushes... There is such a thing as oil impregnated brushes. A rather simple process as outlined here http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5798178.html
I would say, maintain the motor to the best of your ability and give it a test run on the track.
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