Lionel CW-80 transformer repair

[egmurphy]

A couple of years ago I bought a Lionel starter set for my grandson.  It only gets set up by his parents a couple times a year so it hasn't had much use.  A month or so ago my daughter called to say that the transformer (I believe it's a Lionel CW-80) no longer worked.  Power light didn't come on, transformer got hot, and no power to the train.

I recommended that they take it to the nearest LHS that handled Lionel stuff, which they did.  The owner said the transformer could probably be repaired but that it would cost about as much as a new one.  (I don't believe he actually opened it up, just listened to their description of the problem.)  So to get things back in operation, we purchased another transformer. 

Now I'm starting to wonder if I could repair the original one, rather than having it just sitting around occupying space.  Me, I'm in N scale, and haven't touched Lionel stuff in about 50 years.  I'm also no great electrician.  But I have friends down here who do a lot of small appliance repair, so I was planning to bring it back with me when we make the next trip up to visit them.  Which brings me to a few questions.

1. Is it fairly easy to open the transformer, or am I likely to encounter some sort  of tamper-proof screws?  Handle just pries off, or is it screwed on?

2. Do I need to try to find a schematic wiring diagram for the transformer, or will it be fairly obvious to a decent electric appliance repair guy what he's looking at once he opens it up?

3. Is it likely that this is just some minor burned out part as opposed to a major overhaul?  (Yeah, I know I didn't give much in the way of clues to the problem).

Thanks for any light you can shed on the issue.

Regards

Ed

[lionelsoni]

I gathered from postings here that Lionel usually asks people in your situation to cut off the cord and mail it in, then sends them a new CW-80.

[Ole Timer]

Yep .... Bob's right ... if I were you I'd call lionel ... a free one for postage there can't be beat if they'll still do it .

[egmurphy]

Even if it's over a year old and out of warranty?  And, of course, they no longer have any of the original paperwork.

Sounds like it's worth a call to Lionel Customer Service in any case.  Thanks.

Ed

[Roger Bielen]

The CW-80 is designed with tamper proof screws, to prevent opening.  The early units used an internal fuse, Chinese saving a penny, that can not be replaced.  Initially, at the store, we would give the customer a new transformer, cut the cord and send it in for a replacement.  With the buerucratic mess Lionel service has become I'm no longer sure if this is the procedure.  As suggested, try calling Lionel service.  Have any serial, model, etc. numbers from the unit on hand when you call.

[ADCX Rob]

egmurphy

3. Is it likely that this is just some minor burned out part as opposed to a major overhaul?  (Yeah, I know I didn't give much in the way of clues to the problem).

Your description would lead to believe it is a toss-away situation, after following up on any warranty with Lionel.   The transformer core could be reserved for a project, but that's about it.

Rob

 

 

[servoguy]

Ed, I don't think an appliance repair guy could fix the transformer unless he is very familiar with electronics and could back engineer the transformer. A lot of the newer electronics use surface mounted devices (SMD) and multi-layer circuit boards. Both of these make back engineering very difficult. In your case, since there is no output and the transformer gets hot, you probably have one or more shorted output transistors. Replacing them might not be too difficult, but now the question is, "What made them short?" If the root cause of the problem is not fixed, you will likely have a failure of the new output transistors. If the original problem was caused by output transistors that were too small, then replacing them with something larger might fix everything. I have a piece of electronics that was made in 1972 that is still a good piece of test equipment. Twice so far, the pass transistors in the power supply regulator have failed. They lasted for many years before they failed. This sort of failure is caused by the transistor operating too near to the edge of the save operating area (SOA). The same issue caused failure of the flyback transistor in computer monitors. There are a number of things that can cause the power transistors to fail. To make absolutely sure that you have found and fixed all of them is a big problem. One more thing: There are apparently two different models of the CW-80. If your failed unit is an earlier model, then returning it to Lionel is the only thing to do as they apparently have some design flaw. The later model might be repairable. Bruce Baker

[servoguy]

The CW-80 that I have has tamperproof screws that take a triangular shaped bit. Checking Harbor Freight, they don't have a set of bits with a triangular shaped bit. Bruce Baker

[Kooljock1]

Just call Lionel on Monday.  Have the date code from the bottom of the unit ready to read to Mike.  If it doesn't have a "G" in the code, it is one of the units that was improperly designed, and Lionel will replace, no questions asked.

 Jon 

[egmurphy]

Thanks for all the input.  Sounds like trying to repair it will be beyond my (and my friend's abilities).  Guess I'll just bite the bullet and chalk this one up as a loss.

I've passed the info regarding contacting Lionel on to my daughter.  We'll see what happens.  Maybe we'll wind up with a backup transformer.

In any case, I'm looking forward to setting the trains up with the grandson, using the new transformer that we bought, when we head up north.

Thanks again

Ed

[mikemc52]

This thread on the CW-80 transformer got my attention.  I looked at my transformer after reading the posts but am not sure what the date code looks like.  I do not find a G anywhere on the back of the transformer so I assume it is the older model.  The only number I find that may be the date code is 1204.  It does have those three dreaded words on the back however 'Made in China'  Frankly I am very tired of everything coming from China.  From drywall to baby formula, to dog food, and on and on.  The quality is just not good and I think its about time to put some of our US folks back to work.  I'm the first to admit that I enjoy buying a basket full of cheap tools at Harbor Freight but at least I know I am buying throw away stuff.  With Lionel or MTH equipment I expect the product to last a lifetime and be of high quality.  We sure pay a premium for it!

[Ole Timer]

     One thought .... if it's not a free replacement transformer and the warranty's out ... it's a door stop ... throw away transformer ... folks buying these on ebay should be let aware that they are NOT REPAIRABLE .... buy a higher end one that is repairable ..... I see so many folks buying those cw-80's for $50.00 - $60.00 and they are wasteing their money .     Look at it this way old models made in the 1940's - 1950's -1960's up to the late 90's are still going strong ... does that tell you anything about the durability or quality of those cw-80's ..... ?

[mikemc52]

Good luck getting Lionel to replace those old CW-80 transformers.  I called Lionel Customer Service this morning and was told mine was one of the early ones, but they are only replacing them from 2006 forward.  The date code on mine was 1204 and I believe I bought the set it came in, in 2005.  I talked to Margret.  She was very nice but couldn't do anything for me.  She said the problems with the early transformers included a fan that was noisy, the fuse would burn out, and the buttons would stick. Looks like I am stuck with one more thing made in China that is probably going to fail!!

[mrpc]

I agree that we should bring the the work back to the good old USA. I am also discusted with this made in China stuff. I am still waiting for a floor plate for my "Maine Central frieght cat. The emails from Model Power says we have to wait for the China factory to send parts.

[Beltam]

Hi everybody I am in England and I buy all my Lionel either on line or from Lionel Directly I have one of these transformers I purchased it new I was to use it today for the first plugged it in it blew up straight away I agree with most of members of this forum that Lionel should return manufacturing back to the USA there's no one in the world that engineers products as good as the USA manufacturers I really did not notce this Cw of mine was made in China I have tried to avoid buying chinese products I will always buy the American Made ones I have a Vacuum Cleaner made in the USA we have had it over 20 years I went to buy a new and they offered me more on a trade in on the old one of more than I originally paid for it that's a sure sign of USA quality best of luck to all you guys and good R R 

[lionelsoni]

You didn't plug the flex into a 230-volt, 50-hertz English power point, did you?  From the owner's manual:

"The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-hertz power.  Do not connect this product to any other power supply."