Traditional vs Scale

[cabooseboy]

I am kinda new to O-gauge....I am confused about what it means for something to be "Traditional" and something to be "Scale". I believe trains from postwar are considered traditional but in looking at a lionel or mth catalog i cannot tell by looking at the items whether the are one or the other. I have a couple of postwar steamers and a 6464 boxcar so i am trying to decide which way to go. Can you mix traditional and scale together....thanks

[bfskinner]

There are also 0-27 sizes and a lot in between. The short answer is "Yes, you can" but the mix often won't look right. I think it is the width more than  the other scale car dimensions that fouls it up.

That said, go down to a real railroad yard. The variety in size, particularly of freight cars, is amazing; but the eye accepts it better when the brain knows that's actually the way it is. The eye is not as tolerant on a layout. IMHO

There are tecniques to minimize the differences in size. One is never to put a big scale boxcar up next to smaller traditional sized cars of a similar type. Instead, put a couple of low flat- or  gondola cars immediately in front and behind a scale-sized car. If you are using parallel tracks, put the scale cars on the more distant track, and keep the smaller cars up close  to the viewer.

You can use just the opposite strategy if you want to enhance the apparent depth of you layout.

 

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[DMUinCT]

Real World !  The New Haven Railroad in 1944.

 

 

Top two shelves: "Lionel O Size" --- Gray Tank cars are "Tin" as is the double door Box Car, one caboose is "Tin" the other Plastic.

Next three shelves:  "Lionel Scale Size":  The three Black Tank cars are "Die-Cast"(both the Gray and Black Tank Cars use the same frame but in this case the Scale car's Tank is shorter and higher), the Box Cars Bakerlite Plastic.

[brianel027]

Cabooseboy,  the other guys are right that "real" trains offen have cars of various vintages and sizes. The catch in the 3-rail rail world is the detail levels. Today's true scale proportioned trains more often than not have a lot of extra fine details that in my eyes, look out of place with the more simplifed, suggestive details of a tradtionally sized train car. The traditionally sized trains are a little more durable in the sense that the "details" tend to be cast into the mold and not additional details, which can be fragile and easily broken by youngsters or even careless older hands.

I find there is plenty of size variety in the traditionally sized trains. For example, the Williams box car and a Lionel 6464-type of box car have similar detail levels, yet the Williams car is a little larger. The early MTH Railking box cars (pre-Scale Railking) are also larger. If you are interest in MTH stuff that is traditionally sized, the Rugged Rails line is the one to check and the suffix number for those items is 33-xxxx.

Some scale or near scale items do look okay with traditionally sized trains. The 765-series K-Line modern steel side box car for example, with its shortened side ladders and no roofwalk will have the appearance of a high cube or larger modern box car next to a 6464 sized car.

The Weaver cars of Crown Model Trains origin also look good. These are the Outside Braced Box Car, the Woodside Reefer and the 40 Ft. Steel Box Car. Though these cars are a little more detailed than the 6464 type, the detail level doesn't make the 6464 look like an ugly cousin as is the case with many of the newer scale cars.

Also the older Standard 0 Lionel cars are not quite up to current detail levels for scale cars, so they don't look too out of place.

There's also the Atlas Industrial Rail line of cars. Nicely detailed, and yet on a level totally on par with other postwar and MPC era train cars. Their double door box car and the new reefer are nice variety additions.

Years ago, I bought one of the then brand new smaller nicely detailed scale Lionel tank cars. Although it was based on a smaller prototype (so it wasn't too big), the detail level of that car made many of my other cars look inferior. So I ended up selling that Lionel tank car, even though it was nice. Running something like that next to a Lionel simple tanker on a sheet metal frame just makes the differences too obvious... at least the way I see it.

I frankly don't mind the more simplified detail level train cars. But they do look better with cars of similar styles and detail levels. I can let my imagination see the details. Having two cars next to each other with dramatically differing detail levels sort of ruins that one.

[bfskinner]

Brianel has done his customary fine job of providing a detailed answer to your question. From  the photo by DMUinCT, you might gain a little additional insight. Notice that the cars vary considerably in length and height, but the widths are virtually constant. This is due to track gauge, of course, but also to considerations of clearances.

I said earlier that, to my eyes, the width-dimension of a car on a toy train layout is the most bothersome one. If you stick a scale model of  an already- large car in a consist of traditionally sized ones  it may  (repeat, may). look like a blimp.. Often this is difficult to discern when the car is in its box.

I have long recommended measuring a car that you like, and then taking a ruler to the train store with you. You won't go far wrong that way, especially if you pay close attention to the width. If the store owner won't cooperate, maybe he has a car similar to the one you want already out of the box. If not, make sure you can exchange it if it doesn't look "right" when you get it home.

If I find a scale car that is decorated in some special way that I like, i try to buy a few  more of the same size, and run them all behind one of my larger locomotives, such as my post-war Lionel F-3' AA  or ABA which is nearly scale already..

The bottom line is to run what you like -- it's your railroad.