Hello, I'm not a train collector or anything but i do have a couple toy trains that i set up around Christmas. The first train, according to the box, is a k-line 0/027 gauge dual motor mp-15. For a long time it has only run backwards. There is a switch on the bottom of the engine but when i flip it, the engine doesn't go either way. Whichever way the switch is flipped though, the light turns on in the engine when i turn up the speed on the transformer.
The second engine is a Lionel 4-4-2 train with the ability to puff smoke, 027 gauge. I brought it out this year and it worked fine. Then it also would only run backwards. It seemed like it happened after a time when i turned up the speed on the transformer and it clicked, which i'm pretty sure means there is an electrical short in the track. The engine didn't turn on or move either. I turned it off, adjusted the the track and then the engine worked again, but only backwards. A couple days later i noticed a switch on the bottom of this engine too, but i flipped it, and it would only go backwards without any idle state in between. I flipped the switch back and then the train would move in both directions.
I've described everything as detailed as i can i think, so any ideas on how to fix the first engine, or what happened to the second engine, would be very helpful thank you.
Can you tell us the numbers on the locomotives and the brand and model number of the transformer that you're using?
Bob Nelson
Hmm well again i don't know much about trains, but on the side of the k-line train it says 2224, i don't know if that's just for show though. On the bottom is says k-2200.
On the side of the lionel engine it says 8617. One the box there are a couple of numbers 6-1602 and 70-1602-202. i don't know if those mean anything to you.
The transformer box says K-line train transformer k-950 input:120 VAC 50/60HZ output: open circuit 17 VAC 20 va max output
Do you have an Operator's Manual for each of your locos?
If the answer to lionelsoni's question about transformers is a Lionel CW-80, then also please provide the Made in China date from the bottom of the transformer. Some transformers do not drop their output voltage all the way to zero; that is, they "leak" a little current. Sometimes this otherwise harmless little leak is enough to prevent the reversing unit ("E-Unit") from going through its cycle. One way to test this is to provide some voltage by setting the throttle to some mid-range value, such as 60. Do not manipulate either the throttle handle or the "Direction" button on the transformer, but do have someone reliable to catch the loco in case it takes off like a rocket. After a "rest period" of a minute or so, plug the transformer into the wall. It should start up in forward. Let Bob know what it does. Then pull the plug from the wall socket, and after the train comes to a stop, replug it in. It should come up in neutral, with the lights on but no motion. Pull and replace the plug within 5 seconds. The loco should move out in reverse. Please report your results.
Are we to understand that the second locomotive, the 4-4-2 is now working as expected?
Silly question, I know, but I am not familiar with the K-Line. Is it possible that you simply have it sitting on the track "backwards" from whatever K-Line intended? That is, is it reasonable that what you are calling the front is actually the rear, for electrical purposes?
boots Hmm well again i don't know much about trains, but on the side of the k-line train it says 2224, i don't know if that's just for show though. On the bottom is says k-2200. On the side of the lionel engine it says 8617. One the box there are a couple of numbers 6-1602 and 70-1602-202. i don't know if those mean anything to you. The transformer box says K-line train transformer k-950 input:120 VAC 50/60HZ output: open circuit 17 VAC 20 va max output Are you sure it says 20 va max output?. That's only about 20 watts, which is not very much power at all, especially for a dual-motor loco. 120 va maybe? Or something in that range?
Are you sure it says 20 va max output?. That's only about 20 watts, which is not very much power at all, especially for a dual-motor loco. 120 va maybe? Or something in that range?
Even though the transformer is not a Lionel CW-80, try the plug-in, plug-out, plug-in trick that I described above.
Many diesel and electric locomotives will run equally well in either direction, and with real railroads what was front and what was rear was simply a matter of preference and convenience. With steam locos, except "cab-forward" types, the front is obvious.
Sorry no i don't have the operating manuals. Also im using the transformer from the k-line, not the lionel.
I tried your unplugging technique, but to be sure what i did was right, what i did was turned the train on 60 and as it was going around the track unplugged it, waited, then plugged it in again. However, it still only moves in reverse.
Yes, the 4-4-2 is working regularly now.
No, i tried placing the engine both direction on the track. Same result.
Im sorry disregard what i said before i got the transformers mixed up for some reason. I was using the lionel transformer so it has nothing to do with the k-line information i stated above. i dont have the box for this transformer but on the bottom of the console itself it says toy transformer input: 120 VAC only 60 HZ output:7-19VAC 15 VA Type: 4850 and 4851 Then in a little outlined box underneath that it says type: 4060 only input: 120 VAC only 60 HZ output:7-19VAC & 6-17VDC 12 VA Made in USA
boots...toy transformer input: 120 VAC only 60 HZ output:7-19VAC 15 VA Type: 4850 and 4851 Then in a little outlined box underneath that it says type: 4060 only input: 120 VAC only 60 HZ output:7-19VAC & 6-17VDC 12 VA Made in USA
...toy transformer input: 120 VAC only 60 HZ output:7-19VAC 15 VA Type: 4850 and 4851 Then in a little outlined box underneath that it says type: 4060 only input: 120 VAC only 60 HZ output:7-19VAC & 6-17VDC 12 VA Made in USA
Use the AC posts only on that transformer. Both engines will run on the DC posts, but it may be erratic.
Rob
boots Sorry no i don't have the operating manuals. Also im using the transformer from the k-line, not the lionel. I tried your unplugging technique, but to be sure what i did was right, what i did was turned the train on 60 and as it was going around the track unplugged it, waited, then plugged it in again. However, it still only moves in reverse. Yes, the 4-4-2 is working regularly now. No, i tried placing the engine both direction on the track. Same result.
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Here is an Owner's Manual from the Customer Service section of the www.lionel.com website. It is probably not your locomotive, but it may be close enough to serve. It is certainly not your Lionel transformer but, if you stick with ADCX Rob's advice and use only the AC taps, you should be OK.*
I have very little reference material re K-Line. Perhaps someone else can get you a manual or other infomation.
One point to consider. If the Lionel locomotive will work properly on the Lionel transformer, will the K-Line loco work on the Lionel locomotive?
In any event, I think you need a bigger and more modern transformer than either of the ones that you have now. I'm somewhat surprised that the K-Line dual-motor loco will run on either transformer. It could be any number of things, including a "blown" electronic E-unit.
I'll let you, Bob and Rob work on the K-Line mystery. Happy Holidays to all!
* See especially the section on Electronic Reversing Units, page 5.
http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/70-1602-250.pdf
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Most roads run the MP-15 diesel long-hood forward.
The electronic reverse units in both Lionel and K-Line engines "lock" the engine in whatever the last directional state the loco was running in before the switch was deployed.
Jon
First a little information about your Lionel Atlantic. The model number is the cab number, 8617. It was part of the Nickel Plate Special set, 1602. It was made from 1986 to 1991. It has a transversely-mounted "can" motor. This is a permanent-magnet DC motor. However, your locomotive has an electronic reversing unit ("e-unit") which allows it to run on either AC or DC. I understand that it is not working properly.
I agree with the comments about your power supplies. They are very small; but, if you can get the trains to move, I guess you can get by with them.
Your K-Line 2224 ("Coca-Cola"?) almost certainly has two can motors, which are about the size and shape of a C or D battery cell. The fact that it will run only backwards suggests that the e-unit is fried. But you could do an emergency fix so that it always runs forward if you are able to swap the two wires to each motor between the two terminals of that motor.
However, a switcher is likely to be run either way, regardless of which way the controls face. If the cars that it needs to switch are at the hood end, that's the end they will be coupled to. It's not that easy to turn a locomotive around.
The only reason for the question about which end of the loco was the front, was to ascertain whether the e-unit was "coming up" after a power-off "rest period" in "forward" (as it is supposed to do) or in reverse. Clearly it is coming up in reverse.
The remaining question is why does it not cycle out of reverse when the power to the track is interrupted. The two most likely answers are that the reversing switch has it locked in reverse and will not allow it to cycle out of it, or (more likely, in my opinion) that the electronic e-unit itself is faulty. Different electronic e-units operate slightly differently, especially with respect to what "gear" they start off in after a rest, but the K-Line one doesn't seem to cycle at all, the way I read it.
What is particularly vexing is that when the issue was first posted, two locomotives and two transformers seemed to be afflicted with the same malaise simultaneously -- which seemes improbable. Now it seems that at least one of the four possible combinations of transformer/loco is working properly, and I am freah out of additional ideas.
One thing that we have cleared up (I think) is that whatever the various manufacturers call the e-unit lockout swich under the loco, it in and of itself, doesn't change directions or put the loco into reverse; rather it enables a good-working e-unit to function, or it defeats it so that the e-unit will not change directions at all which, of course, is exactly what we are seeing. Perhaps the switch is bad.
Or maybe one of the leads from the e-unit to the motors is broken or unsoldered. In the initial post, the K-Line loco seemed to have two positions: "lights on in neutral," and "lights-on in reverse." One might say that all that is missing is "lights-on in forward." Does that suggest anything to anyone?
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