Just got my 2035 fixed and bought an F3 Santa Fe. Put the diesel on the track & after a few laps I saw a puff of smoke from one of the remote 5122 switches. It has power on the straight and turn legs, but not the common. There is power to the pin that allows the frog to swivel, but not to the frog or the end of the track. Sometimes, if jiggled or the switch is manually thrown, there is power. This is fleeting and trains all stop on the switch.
The remote control only works to the straightaway. Nothing happens when remote is moved to the curve. Any way to fix the switch? Or is this one of the differences about the stuff made in Hong Kong; it is disposable?
Also, I plan to rewire soon. How do I go about wiring the switches to use other than track power? How many watts input (transformer) will 4 to 6 switches require?
Thanks,
Charlie
The connections inside the turnout, between the plastic top and the steel bottom, are crimped and inclined to go bad.
Rewiring for other than track voltage usually requires getting the steel bottom off. This is not trivial; but you can kill two birds with one stone and solder the bad connections while you are in there. The downside of making the modification is that you will ruin the switch machine if a train stops on the turnout, since there is no provision for disconnecting the coil after throwing the turnout, as in the 022. You can disconnect the control rails and give up the non-derailing feature. Or you can put in a capacitive-discharge circuit, which I can describe if you want.
Getting into the thing involves bending some tabs and drilling out some rivets, to be replaced by screws. There is a funny little one in one corner that likes a number-2 screw and nut. The big one is the bottom of the frog casting. After you get it apart, I recommend drilling the frog all the way through and tapping it for a short 6-32 flat-head screw. The rewiring is simple: Just disconnect the common coil wires from the center rails and bring them out separately.
I wouldn't worry about power for 5122 turnouts. You will draw current only briefly; and there are no lights, which are the main concern with other turnouts.
Bob Nelson
Okay, thanks, Bob. I'll take the thing apart & see if I can get the wiring done. I want to keep the non-derailing feature. If I can get it apart & fixed, I'll decide about the capacitive-discharge circuit option.
I've got a couple of honey does so it may be a day or two before I can post results.
wyomingscoutHow do I go about wiring the switches to use other than track power?
How do I go about wiring the switches to use other than track power?
Lionel describes just how to do this HERE.
wyomingscoutHow many watts input (transformer) will 4 to 6 switches require? Thanks, Charlie
The 5122 uses no power unless you throw the switch or you park a train on it. A dedicated RW, 1033, or 1044 would give plenty of overhead to account for all of your switches and allow for fine-tuning the voltage.
Rob
Rob, I checked out that Lionel site & didn't see the explanation. Can you be more specific? Do I need to buy the manual, or what?
BY MICHAEL P. BRAGA:
The following tip will show you how to convert Lionel 027 style switches for optimum use with TrainMaster Command Control. This conversion will allow you to use the switches with or without the 6-12914 SC-1 or the 6-22980 SC-2 TrainMaster Command Control switch controllers.
Unlike their bigger brother, the "O" gauge switch, the 027 switch is designed to receive its power from variable track voltage and works best between 10 to 14 volts. It does not have a "fixed voltage" tap. These characteristics make it less than ideal when running in Command Control. That is unless you perform the following, very simple, modification.
First, you will need to remove the switch housing that covers the coils. To remove this housing take out the single screw that's holding it in place. The double coils are now exposed. You will see three insulated wires going to the two coils; one wire on each end and one wire in the middle between the two coils. This middle wire is the one that we will be changing. This middle-insulated wire is actually covering two copper wires within one piece of insulation. Gently pull on the insulation covering these middle wires to give yourself some exposed wire to cut.
Now, clip the insulation and wires about ½ inch from the coils. Wrap the clipped wire ends coming from the bottom of the switch with electrical tape. Next, using a modeling knife carefully scrape any clear varnish insulation that may be on the ends of the wires coming from the coil. Removing any varnish will allow for a better connection. Once you have removed the varnish, twist the two wires together. These wires will now need to be soldered to a small length of "jumper" wire, approximately 2 to 4 inches long. This small length of wire should be one or two strands thick. After you have soldered the wires together, use another piece of electrical tape to insulate your newly formed connection. You are now ready to replace the switch cover.
Before you replace the switch cover, cut a notch at the base of the cover using a modeling knife. This will allow the wire to come through the cover without getting pinched. Alternately, you may also route the wire through the holes in the top of the cover that are used to vent heat generated by the coils. Assemble the cover to the switch. Your modification is now complete and ready to use with TrainMaster Command Control. Note that the 027 switches will no longer function as before using variable- track power.
If you can snag those wires as he describes (and have no other work to do inside the turnout), that's great. But I have seen quite a bit of variation in wire length and routing in this style of turnout over the many years that it has been manufactured. He doesn't mention the admittedly remote possibility that the loose cut ends of the wires coming from the center rails will touch something and probably should be insulated, nor the almost certain destruction of the solenoids when a train stops on the turnout.
lionelsoni...over the many years that it has been manufactured....
...over the many years that it has been manufactured....
This kind of puts things in perspective...!
The 1122(1122E) was manufactured for 18(1+17) years. The 5122 style, based on the 1122E, has been around for more than double that time.
I took the switch apart as Bob outlined & I don't see any loose wires or burn marks. When I hook power up via alligator clips, the switch will 'throw' like the anti-derail feature, but the switch continues to hum. If I hook the 'gator' to the other outside rail, nothing happens. The remote control switch, the SPDT one, does nothing & wiring looks good on it.
I can't seem to get power in anyway from the common side, or base of the 'Y', but that could be because I drilled out the frog.
I'm not trying to use any new TMCC kind of stuff, just wanted the switch to work again as before - off the remote control and anti-derail. I'm wondering if one of the coils is bad, or a short is on or near one of them.
I bought a pair of 1122's & will insert one of them when they get here. I'd still like to fix the 5122 if possible, but am beginning to wonder if it is worth it.
With the transformer connected at the facing-point end, one wire to the center rail, the other wire to one of the outside rails, the solenoids should not be active and there should be no hum. Is that not the case?
No, that isn't the case. With one wire to the center rail & the other to one of the outside rails the switch throws & continues to hum. With the wire to the other outside rail, nothing happens. No hum, no action through the SPDT, nothing.
Run the test again without the controller/SPDT connected & report back.
As you are describing it so far, you have two problems - 1) a break/loss of continuity in the ground/base circuit of the switch and 2) a short from ground to one of the trip/trigger rails.
The results are the same with & without the controller. The controller doesn't seem to do anything since the problem arose. A short seems logical, because the solenoids activate with power but continue to hum. On the test board, apparently only the side with power hums if the switch is to that track. If not, the switch throws to that track & continues to hum. On the layout, I suppose both are activated all the time.
Don't clip to the outside rails for ground/return this time. Clip to the thumb nut/post nearest the switch machine, and the center rail nearest the switch machine only. Test again, on a work bench, not connected to any other track. What does it do now?
The reason he's getting the hum using only one of the outside rails is that he's got the steel base off; and the base is what connects those rails together. I think there's a short circuit between, on the one hand, one of the control rails or the wire between the control rail and the solenoid and, on the other hand, the outside rail that gives the hum or something connected to that outside rail.
I think we're getting somewhere. As long as the rails are not crimped into the metal base, the outside rails will not be connected together. That's okay for now--it helps to isolate the problem. That problem is that the outside rail that produces the hum has somehow become connected to one of the solenoid wires. Examine them carefully to see if you can find a spot where this is happening. Notice that each solenoid wire is connected to a terminal and to one of the control rails. Furthermore, one of the outside rails, probably the one associated with the hum, is connected to the frame of the switch machine. The short circuit could be anywhere between those two electrical nodes.
Well, I unsoldered the wires, took the solenoid frame off the switch & the solenoids out of the frame. I can't find anything that looks shorted or burned. No breaks in the insulation on the wires. I even took the red tape off the solenoids & looked them over. They look okay. Replaced tbe red tape with electrical.
I replaced the solenoids, resoldered the wires, and checked again with the same results as before. Probably the best bet now is cut the wires, reinstall the base & save the switch for possible use on a future, hardly used, turnout as a manual switch.
I have tapped the frog & got it screwed down. Haven't cut the wires yet just in case you, or someone else, has another thought on the matter.
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