A few questions about lionel trains.

[alcodave]

Hi guys, I am new to running lionel trains. I have a trainset from the early 1970's. the 4-4-2 steam locomotive runs good until i put the tender behind it. the tender has a sound system in it. i just have a cheap transformer(45watt) and it seems to me the the transformer is not powerful enough to run the loco and have electric going to the tender. could i be right about that? also i am looking to replace the transformer and it seems like the CW-80 lionel is the on I want. why is there such a price difference in these on ebay? they are retail at some sites for 125 dollars and buy it now on Ebay for 35 dollars. with some at auctions even cheaper that that! whats the deal with them? is it a good   product? i only want to power a small layout. the ones on ebay say they are removed from trainsets so i am assuming that the $125 ones are sold in new packaging or something? i have read that i should avoid the lionel powermax. any advice on that? and lastly how about the best way to clean track? i have some surface rust on mine is it better to clean or replace? i could use some help with track plans too. im thinking a 4x8 or smaller.

[Bob Keller]

If you plan on a small layout or a seasonal layout, my two cents would be to go to a train show and find a well kept Postwar Lionel no. 1033. This is a reliable, proven product and works well with all brands. The only problem with the CW80 tend to be in the "doesn't play well with others." This point has hit home with the CW80 we have on our project layout - the Lionel gear runs fine, but we've had problems powering MTH and Atlas O equipment with it. This isn't a problem if you only plan on running Lionel gear.

I believe Charles Ro (charlesro.com) sells refurbished 1033s.

[krapug1]

A few comments on the CW-80. This transformer comes in a number of Lionel sets, and thus a number of operators wind up with them, but have no use for them. HOWEVER, the first run of CW-80's were problem plauged, and if I recall correctly there is a way to tell the earlier models, perhaps someone on the forum can elaborate on this. ALSO, a lower wattage transformer called the Power Max comes in the lowest priced Lionel Sest and this LOOKS like the CW-80. This is easy to spot, as the CW-80 has 4 posts on the back of the transformer (2 for track power, 2 for acces. power), and the Power Max has only 2 (track power only). I would ask this question about any CW-80 you were planning on bidding on. The engine you are talking about sounds like a 1970's vintage with The Mighty Sound of Steam. These early attempts at sound tend to deteriorate over time, I would try to run the engine and tender without the tether connected. Ken

[Dub]

This is a good basic refresher I recommend. It has track plans too!

http://www.thortrains.net/manualx.htm

I never knew about the CW 80 . I always thought the price was set on greed. Good deal to just plain ripoff. After all,  Ebay is a selling machine.

Enjoy

Bob

[dbaker48]

 Regarding your trainset from the 70's, the sound system is probably the "Sound of Steam", the circuit board was typically isolated from the frame of the tender by a piece of foam.  After time the foam will deteriate, and not function as a very good insulator.  You may want to check that out, and replace it with either some velcro, or double adhesive thick tape.

 

[TRAINCAT]

 I have a CW-80 and only use it for powering accessories now. Its does not play nice with MTH trains. As was mentioned, there are 2 versions. One is 80 watts, the other is only 30 watts. I like the 1033 idea as that is a good transformer. I ended up buying a Rail King Z-1000 transformer and I also use an old KW and have an RW for backup. Try to get at least 100 watts in whatever you buy. The reason there are so many prices for the CW-80 is people and hobby shops are breaking up sets and selling off the CW-80 that came with them. I got one for $25.00. My advise is to avoid the CW-80 completely.

 Train Rat

[3railguy]

I agree with Bob on the 1033. An LW which is fairly common is an even better choice. I also agree with Don Baker on the tender possibly having a short. Remove the tender shell and inspect the wiring and board for shorts.

[Bob Keller]

An LW! Yes indeedy. There has been an LW in the CTT workshop as long has there has been a CTT and it has never caused one bit of trouble! A great little gizmo!

[alcodave]

Thanks for the info guys,i have been running the loco and tender without the wire hooked up. it  still doesnt run good. mainly stalls on curves. loco runs fine without tender. i am going to attempt to rewire the tender and possibly replace the speaker or atleast clean all the connections really good. 

[3railguy]

If its stalling on curves, you could have a loose center roller or center roller wire on the tender truck.

[alcodave]

it only stalls on curves when the tender and loco are together. it runs worse when you put the tender behind it.

[brianel027]

AlcoDave, I have some of those early 1970's MPC-era Lionel locos and they run superb with a little TLC. So let's troubleshoot. First off, take your loco and cradle it upside down in your lap and clean the loco wheels with some 91% Isopropyl Alcohol and a paper towel.... you'll be surprise how much gunk you get off. This will help tremendously with the way the loco runs. But you might want to avoid cleaning the wheel with the rubber traction tire, if your loco has one. The alcohol could help deteriorate it more.

On the 027 track, depending on how bad the rust is, try this... spray some WD-40 (or something very similar) on a rag and wipe the rails down good, coating them with the WD-40. Let that set over night and then with a Scotchbrite scrubber, spray that with a little WD-40 and scrub the rail surfaces. Let that set for the day or overnight again, then the following day wipe the rails dry with a clean rag. That should help out greatly. I've done it and it works. But avoid getting WD-40 on the plastic on switches or the red plastic on an uncoupling track... it could possibly "melt" or warp the plastic. I haven't had a problem with that, but seems to me I've read that some have.

Cleaing the track should make a huge difference. The WD-40 will help protect the metal rails and wiping it dry should affect traction too much at your point. You may have to repeat the process once or twice. But if you already have the WD-40, it'll save you some money in the shortterm of buying new track. And 027 track, while not the only option today, is certainly the most affordable tracy system and works good on a small layout.

Your stalling or shorting problem sounds to me like two possibilities, beyond dirty track: least likely, a short in the sound wire going to the tender. But if you are running it without the wire connected, the problem may be the metal "L" shaped "hook" from the steamer is bent downward too much and is making contact with the center rail on curves. Give it a slight bend up, and see if that doesn't help. Make sure the wheels of the tender are in place and roll freely and that the clip assembly that holds the copper strips for the electronic sound is in place. Using a screw driver, it pops out and should snap back in also.

Those 45-50 watt transformers that came with those sets are not great, but should more than do the job. Could be if the trains have been in storage for years (as it sounds) there may be some corrosion or dirt inside the transformer on the coil. These transformers are not easy to get apart, but not impossible either. Some were sealed with a sort of rivet, which you might have to drill out and then replace with a screw. Some had a hex type of screw in them, so those are easier to get apart.

The Lionel 1033 is the best transformer Lionel ever made in my opinion for price, performance, versatility and durability. Used ones in operating shape shouldn't set you back more than $50. I've gotten them in good shape for as little as $30.00. It'll more than power a small layout and the two voltage to the track setttings (A-U or B-U / 5-16 volts or 0-11 volts respective) are great for postwar or modern locos with DC can motors (provided they are made to run on AC... most are, but some aren't).

As said above, Lionel had problems with the early CW80's. Many needed to be sent back and serviced. The newer ones are OK, so that may reflect price differences... folks may be dumping those early-made versions. But for the money, the 1033 is a great value. And keep the smaller transformer... it may come in handy when you get a layout going and need specific power for operating accessories. Several small transformers can not only save you money, but will allow you to supply power to accessories with more accuracy for best operation.

The Sound of Steam was advanced for its day and was actually invented by MARX. As Don said, the foam insulation detiorates badly. Replace that and provided the board isn't short already, you should be ok. I've got them and they still work great... it's a real kid pleaser. Lionel also made a primitve version with a ball-bearing loaded wheel in the tender... it's very simple and can't compare to Railsounds of today, but is certainly suitable and also a kid pleaser.

And if you don't have a maintenace kit of some kind, you'll probably want to get one and give the nylon gears of your loco a good lube with a plastic safe train lubricant. Lionel makes a kit, and Labelle makes a lubricant set which is well worth getting if you plan on getting back into the hobby.

Let us know how you make out.

[Dub]

This thread is great !

A few Questions....

Many Answers.....

[alcodave]

This has been very helpful! i have a list of things to do, thanks guys! i thought i knew about trains from being an HO modeler,but lionel is a whole diferent beast! There is alot to learn! i am going to give the track a good cleaning tonight.i bought some eagle one metal polish i am going to try on a few pieces to remove rust and corrosion. i know it works great on old schwinn bike chrome!

[krapug1]

Another good option for transformer power is the later generation Lionel MW, or it's more updated cousin the RS-1. These tend to get overlooked as they came out before todays more advanced computer based systems. These are newer electronic transformers, and a key benefit is they activate horns and whistles without the engine slowing down as much as it does with traditional transformers. The RS-1 also has a bell botton and commands more money, but whenever I see a MW it is usually priced right. As mentioned the 4-4-2 steam engines from the MPC era of Lionel are strong runners, a good cleaning should start it running better. Ken

[alcodave]

I got the track and engines wheels clean and things are running alot better. the loop on the carpet floor isnt going to last long though. as soon i got it running smooth the track decided to start coming apart. i bought a 1033 transformer on ebay.

[sir james I]

Get yourself some bread ties and wrap them around the ties of each track section. The track will stay together as long as you want it to. Or you could also use masking tape.

[ttt]

I have a CW-80 and it powers my entire 4 x 18 layout without much difficulty.