The best O gauge track out there!

[J. Daddy]

So my layout skills are starting up again, this time in O gauge. So again I need your thoughts and expertise!

My previous O gauge set ups have been limited to the "carpet central" on Christmas and I used my hand-me down Lionel tinplate track, but not this time. I would really like to set up a "scale like" O gauge layout with the best looking track on the market. The only limiting factor would be that Lionel 3 rail and TMCC operation would be the norm. I would like to stay away from sectional track if possible, but will not rule it out if it looks really good. Also what type of roadbed should I use? I guess we should discuss switches too....

Thanks for the guidance!

 

[chuck]

You didn't specify the tightest radius you intended to use.  This may have an effect on your choice of products.  Atlas makes a nice solid rail product and has a decent set of switches.  Gargarves makes a hi rial product that uses over sized ties but the ties are made out of wood.  There is a company that makes the best swicthes, period.  Ross Custom Switches.  These aren't cheap but they are exteremely well made and they are compatible with Gargraces track and can be adapted to Atlas.  MTH makes a line of track called Scale Trak.  It has prototypical sized rails and ties but the tie spacing is off and the track is difficult to adapt to other track systems (aka you would probably need to use MTH switches or come up with your own system to adapt to Ross or Atlas.

[Anonymous]

I use Atlas 21st Century Track. I do not require the use of Magnatraction so the nickle silver does just fine for me. The ties are brown plastic, but are molded to resemble real wood, and Atlas is the ONLY track that mimics the tie plates AND spikes.

I have not powered any of my switches, so I can't attest to how well they function.

I can say that I have had no problems with engines traversing the switches.

The only two problems I have with Atlas Track is the packaging for the switches requires that you extract them from their packaging with care. I have broken two switches due to the switch not releasing and pulling a short section of track off the ties. The other problem I have is the cheep crappy switch controllers they include with their $60.00+ switches. This is why I am slowly replacing the switch machines and controllers with Z-Stuff DZ-2500 switch machines and controllers (they are TMCC compatible out of the box).

[overall]

Kalmbach has a book out that deals only with Lionel compatible track. All existing brands are compared and contrasted. The title is "Trackwork for Toy Trains". Kalmbach has it on their website. I have a copy and am happy with it.

George

[dougdagrump]

As far as track is concerned we have been using the Atlas system, both SS and NiSilver, on the club layout for a number of years. The track itself has held up extremely well when considering the amount of runtime, 30+ hrs/wk. On the early version of the switches my complaint is the continuity issues, and even on the, nisilver, sectional/flex track it seems as though the center rail does not want to accept solder very well. 

Subroadbase is MDF, covered with Pergo flooring underlayment and cork under the track.

[Dave Connolly]

 You will get a lot of opinions on this. The most frustrating thing on your layout will be. Turnouts that don't work well or are limited in choices. For a Hi Rail layout it's tough to beat Ross. Well made. Easy to work with as far as adding wires to rails to pretty much eliminate any dead spots. A variety of switch machines can be used. I prefer the ones from Tortoise. But also use simple handthrows in my yard areas. Plenty of choice as far as curve radius' as well. Easily mates with Gargraves for some special bends as well as a cheaper form of long straight portions or yard tracks. Yes the ties are oversize as is the rail to some point. But somehow despite this it looks right. Best of all they are made right here in the U.S.  . Any problems and a quick call will get you some help. From someone who has actually built and installed them.

[magicman710]

I recommend MTH ScaleTrax. I am using it on my layout-to-be and have found that its a wonderful track system and very realistic too. It has the smallest profile of any other O Gauge track system, smaller than Atlas O. It has true "T" type shaped rails and scale sized ties. I picked it for its realism and the look of the track on Rich Battista's layout seen on his website at www.toytrainsontracks.com

Each to his own I guess!

[ChiefEagles]

Not Realtrax.  It looks good and, if done right, will be OK.  I actually turned mine over in big sections and soldered the connectors together.  MTH switches for Realtrax are the pits.  Trash.  Had nothing but problems.  Poor quality control.  You get a good one, it is outstanding.  Get a bad one, you have trouble for life.  I have 23 in my layout.  I keep spares to replace the ones that go bad.  Fix the bad ones and hold them for another one to go out.  Will 072 switches arc bad.  Will short out and trip fast acting breakers.  Especially with the newer Lionel and Atlas engines.   

[overall]

dougdagrump,

I have Atlas switches and have soldered wires to their middle rails. What I do is to remove a small spot of the blackening with a burnishing tool and apply the solder to that spot.

George

[J. Daddy]

You didn't specify the tightest radius you intended to use.  This may have an effect on your choice of products.  Atlas makes a nice solid rail product and has a decent set of switches.  Gargarves makes a hi rial product that uses over sized ties but the ties are made out of wood.  There is a company that makes the best swicthes, period.  Ross Custom Switches.  These aren't cheap but they are exteremely well made and they are compatible with Gargraces track and can be adapted to Atlas.  MTH makes a line of track called Scale Trak.  It has prototypical sized rails and ties but the tie spacing is off and the track is difficult to adapt to other track systems (aka you would probably need to use MTH switches or come up with your own system to adapt to Ross or Atlas.

Chuck,

Your right, I did not specify radius because I would like to use the 072 as a minimum with 40inch flex track to bend my own radius, I may be stuck with a sharper radius say 054 but I want to use easements to cheat the turn if feasible... My largest loco right now is an A-B-A E-7.... its going to need a large radii just to look right. I love Ross switches... they look great... Atlas Flex track is also looking like the right choice.... now this Scale track is new to me, how come it will not mate to Ross and Atlas track?

Thanks!

[dbaker48]

I am using Ross switches (23), and either Gargraves, and some Ross Curved sections.  If I were to do it over, exactly the same.  I have found the switches to be very competetively priced.  Also the variation of switch configurations better than anyone.  I am using a 3 way switch, a couple of Wyes, using the DZ1000 motor.  Just no problems.  Also, they have 1 switch that is not widely acknowledged.  If you were going to do a cross over between two parallel tracks, look at the 11 degree switches.  If the tracks are close together you can run a crossing between the tracks in 4 or 5 inches width.  You simply extend the straight section between the two switches accordingly.

 

Good luck,

 

[J. Daddy]

I use Atlas 21st Century Track. I do not require the use of Magnatraction so the nickle silver does just fine for me. The ties are brown plastic, but are molded to resemble real wood, and Atlas is the ONLY track that mimics the tie plates AND spikes.

I have not powered any of my switches, so I can't attest to how well they function.

I can say that I have had no problems with engines traversing the switches.

The only two problems I have with Atlas Track is the packaging for the switches requires that you extract them from their packaging with care. I have broken two switches due to the switch not releasing and pulling a short section of track off the ties. The other problem I have is the cheep crappy switch controllers they include with their $60.00+ switches. This is why I am slowly replacing the switch machines and controllers with Z-Stuff DZ-2500 switch machines and controllers (they are TMCC compatible out of the box).

I like the looks of the Atlas track I agree... very nice, now for the switches, do you have to power the frogs?

[J. Daddy]

As far as track is concerned we have been using the Atlas system, both SS and NiSilver, on the club layout for a number of years. The track itself has held up extremely well when considering the amount of runtime, 30+ hrs/wk. On the early version of the switches my complaint is the continuity issues, and even on the, nisilver, sectional/flex track it seems as though the center rail does not want to accept solder very well. 

Subroadbase is MDF, covered with Pergo flooring underlayment and cork under the track.

Wow do you have a picture your track with the sub-roadbed? I started with 1/2 plywood for the sub base but not sure of the actual roadbed I will use...

[J. Daddy]

 You will get a lot of opinions on this. The most frustrating thing on your layout will be. Turnouts that don't work well or are limited in choices. For a Hi Rail layout it's tough to beat Ross. Well made. Easy to work with as far as adding wires to rails to pretty much eliminate any dead spots. A variety of switch machines can be used. I prefer the ones from Tortoise. But also use simple handthrows in my yard areas. Plenty of choice as far as curve radius' as well. Easily mates with Gargraves for some special bends as well as a cheaper form of long straight portions or yard tracks. Yes the ties are oversize as is the rail to some point. But somehow despite this it looks right. Best of all they are made right here in the U.S.  . Any problems and a quick call will get you some help. From someone who has actually built and installed them.

Dave,

So the Ross switches do not come with switch machines? also I have heard that with a blackened center rail Lionel TMCC has issues with it... is this true?

[J. Daddy]

I recommend MTH ScaleTrax. I am using it on my layout-to-be and have found that its a wonderful track system and very realistic too. It has the smallest profile of any other O Gauge track system, smaller than Atlas O. It has true "T" type shaped rails and scale sized ties. I picked it for its realism and the look of the track on Rich Battista's layout seen on his website at www.toytrainsontracks.com

Each to his own I guess!

Wow! Very nice... this is the look! Now how did you get over the switch issues?

[J. Daddy]

I am using Ross switches (23), and either Gargraves, and some Ross Curved sections.  If I were to do it over, exactly the same.  I have found the switches to be very competetively priced.  Also the variation of switch configurations better than anyone.  I am using a 3 way switch, a couple of Wyes, using the DZ1000 motor.  Just no problems.  Also, they have 1 switch that is not widely acknowledged.  If you were going to do a cross over between two parallel tracks, look at the 11 degree switches.  If the tracks are close together you can run a crossing between the tracks in 4 or 5 inches width.  You simply extend the straight section between the two switches accordingly.

 

Good luck,

 

Hmm Gargraves and Ross... now can you mount the switch machines under the switch if so disired, or is it pretty much locked in....Also with the phantom rails do you have any sound pick-up or TMCC issues?

[J. Daddy]

I recommend MTH ScaleTrax. I am using it on my layout-to-be and have found that its a wonderful track system and very realistic too. It has the smallest profile of any other O Gauge track system, smaller than Atlas O. It has true "T" type shaped rails and scale sized ties. I picked it for its realism and the look of the track on Rich Battista's layout seen on his website at www.toytrainsontracks.com

Each to his own I guess!

I forgot to ask, what roadbed construction did you use... and your ballast technique?

Thanks

J. Daddy

[dbaker48]

Hmm Gargraves and Ross... now can you mount the switch machines under the switch if so disired, or is it pretty much locked in....Also with the phantom rails do you have any sound pick-up or TMCC issues?

Most CLUB layouts use the Ross switches with either the Ross or Gargraves track.  The switches are available without switch motors, OR with them, and they offer two different types of switch motors.  Both are independently available from Z-Stuff.  Many people and clubs use the Tortoise type motors which mount UNDER the table and are very good.  Primary factors in my opinion is relaiability, durability, appearance and finally cost.  The Ross does a great job on all these aspects IMO, better than the others.  Regarding the black rail and TMCC, no problem.  I am running TMCC, Legacy, and DCS.  The oxidized rail doesn't happer the signal at all.

If you can try to see applications of all.  Another benefit is the track is easy to cut to required length.  In the picture I posted their is difference in shade of the track color.  It is due to the fact that the lighter color track, I purchased in  1975.

[chuck]

now this Scale track is new to me, how come it will not mate to Ross and Atlas track?

The track connectors and profile only match up with ScaleTrax.  You can shim it up to get the appropriate height but you will have to make your own custom adapters.  All of the other track systems have transition pieces/pins/adpaters of some kind.

This is a photo of Atlas 3 rail compared to ScaleTrax without the benefit of roadbed or ballasting (ScaleTrax on the left, Atlas on the right):

ScaleTrax track has a lot of nice properties but the tie spacing and the issues of adapting to other track systems (particulalry for switch support) make it deal killer to me.

The best looking track to my eye is the Atlas O two rail but you would need to come up with your own third rail system to make this work.  I am experimenting with some HO or N gauge nickel silver track on raised posts to see how well this will work.

TMCC doesn't care about blackened center rails on any of the brands of track.  The radio signal is carried on the outer rails.  The blackened center rails will sometimes lead to conductivity issues as the blackening process or the material used to limit the oxidation can change the conductive properties of the metal.

[magicman710]

I recommend MTH ScaleTrax. I am using it on my layout-to-be and have found that its a wonderful track system and very realistic too. It has the smallest profile of any other O Gauge track system, smaller than Atlas O. It has true "T" type shaped rails and scale sized ties. I picked it for its realism and the look of the track on Rich Battista's layout seen on his website at www.toytrainsontracks.com

Each to his own I guess!

I forgot to ask, what roadbed construction did you use... and your ballast technique?

Thanks

J. Daddy

I use cork O gauge roadbed. Then, cover the ties and roadbed only until the roadbed is not visible and the ballast is almost to the tops of the ties.

[Dave Connolly]

  I think your thinking of DCS as far as problems with blackened center rails. No problems ever as far as a poor DCS signal. Just wipe them down before running any trains. They do come with an oily residue on them that I believe is from the manufacturing process. Just use whatever you would normally clean your track with. The blackening that affected DCS the most I believe was from MTH's own Realtrax.

 You can by them ready to go from Ross. Prewired and a DZ switch machine installed. Mine is an older layout and at the time these weren't an option. I preferred the slow switching of the Tortoise. They do require some work to install but have never had a problem with one in 18 years. As far as a clean looking turnout motor mounted on the switch ties. The air powered ones from Delaire looked and worked great. Easy hook up as well. Not sure if they or something similar is around now.

 My yard areas rest directly on homesote over plywood. The mainline reats on the same as well as cork or Vinylbed. Ross presently makes roadbed themselves to go with their track.

[3railguy]

For realism, tinplate Gargraves track combined with Ross or Gargraves switches if magnetraction is a concern. Atlas if magnetraction is not a concern. Atlas track is more expensive than Gargraves but Atlas switches are cheaper than Ross. Cork or cork like synthetic Roadbed is practical because it is pre-cut in strips and the edges are tapered for realistic ballasting. Synthetic roadbed won't become brittle like cork does.

Bending Gargraves without kinking it can be a challenge. One method is to cut radius templates out of plywood for various radi and bend the track around that. Where you have joints in the curve, solder the joints before bending for kink free joints.

The easiest track system to work with is Lionel Fastrack. It is not as realistic as above but looks good. Box stock, it is noisy but can be quieted by attatching carpet foam underneath. Fastrack is also very popular and just about everyone stocks it. It costs about what Atlas costs.

You can improve the looks of tubular by setting balsa wood ties under it. Tubular switches aren't the best preformers compared to above and the switch radi is limited. Tubular is the cheapest. Especially used.

[RockIsland52]

For realism, tinplate Gargraves track combined with Ross or Gargraves switches if magnetraction is a concern. Atlas if magnetraction is not a concern. Atlas track is more expensive than Gargraves but Atlas switches are cheaper than Ross. Cork or cork like synthetic Roadbed is practical because it is pre-cut in strips and the edges are tapered for realistic ballasting. Synthetic roadbed won't become brittle like cork does.

Bending Gargraves without kinking it can be a challenge. One method is to cut radius templates out of plywood for various radi and bend the track around that. Where you have joints in the curve, solder the joints before bending for kink free joints.

The easiest track system to work with is Lionel Fastrack. It is not as realistic as above but looks good. Box stock, it is noisy but can be quieted by attatching carpet foam underneath. Fastrack is also very popular and just about everyone stocks it. It costs about what Atlas costs.

You can improve the looks of tubular by setting balsa wood ties under it. Tubular switches aren't the best preformers compared to above and the switch radi is limited. Tubular is the cheapest. Especially used.

THANK YOU 3RAILGUY.........I have been contemplating the choice of track (and switches) for my next layout. The correct decision for me has become less clear.  I wrote in another post somewhere that for many of us with less practical experience or exposure to the array of choices, the choice of track can be flat out agonizing.  Like the Sundance Kid said to Butch Cassidy about going to Bolivia, "I just don't want to get there and find out it stinks."

Realism.  Cost.  Noise.  Ease of use.  Ease of modification.  Height.  Conductivity between track pieces without solder. Curve radii.  Functional compatibility with engine brands.  Functional compatibility with scale.  Functional compatibility with switches (with switches pros and cons).  Functional compatibility with electronic systems.  Pickup wear. 

When one is about to embark on a layout from ground zero, I for one don't want to look back and say to myself that I did not take every factor into consideration, including the future.  "Yes, I realize my track choice will do this well but that not as well.  But I decided to pick my poison/compromise.  And my decision was X, and I will live with the compromise with certain workarounds or outright acceptance that it is what it is."  No second guessing.  No mid course change of heart. Granted, every single choice has benefits and drawbacks, and what is best for me is not necessarily best for you.

Somewhere I found and then lost a writeup similar to yours where a matrix was developed to map the track choices with their pros and cons with some of the factors I listed above. I think it included photos of the various choices side by side. 

1.)  Does anyone know where I may have read the track comparison with the matrix?

2.)  Can anyone post a picture of the tubular with the ties modified for realism?

Thanks,

Jack

[J. Daddy]

Thank you all for your input. This Forum has be a Godsend. With diminishing hobby shops in our area its tough to find people with the knowledge and expertise to answer questions to "new comers". There are so many scales and products released today its tough to keep 'track' of it all.

Thank you again and Run those trains! God bless,

J. Daddy

[Anonymous]

Jack,
Are you talking about this: http://www.purkeystoytrains.com/trackguide.html

[RockIsland52]

Brent.....yours is not the track comparison summary I was referring to.  Yours is better.  Thanks!  I feel better already.

Jack

[Louisiana Southern Pacific]

I also use Atlas 21st Century Track

I agree with:  lionroar88  I use Atlas 21st Century Track. I do not require the use of Magnatraction so the nickle silver does just fine for me. The ties are brown plastic, but are molded to resemble real wood, and Atlas is the ONLY track that mimics the tie plates AND spikes.