Hi-
I have an odd-sized room in my basement that I'd like to use for a layout. Here's a picture from a blueprint with dimmensions added:
It used to be 2 separate rooms (hence the 2 doors), but I removed a wall when we moved in making it 1 room. If I keep the wall on the right it would limit what I can do. I need to keep the wall at the top. Should I remove the wall with the doors? The only reason I would keep it is to try to keep the level of dust down, but removing it would certainly give me more options.
I don't have a layout designed yet so I'm open to ideas on the basic shape. I need to keep the lower left corner open because of the water meter, so assuming a 2' access aisle from the right that brings the usable length down to 15'. Also need to keep clearance for the water heater if I do remove the walls.I don't want to climb on top to work on the layout, and I don't want a basic rectangle. If I remove the wall, maybe a u shape with 4x8 top and bottom, and 4x7 (or narrower) connecting them along the left wall?
thx, Don
dmestan;
Can't tell from drawing where entry is to the basement. No matter, if the water heater and the water meter access are both problems, could a plumber relocate both so they were near the entry to the basement or does that complicate things to much? ($$ probably)
Mel Hazen; Jax, FL
Mel Hazen; Jax, FL Ride Amtrak. It's the only way to fly!!!
Sorry, here's a little more detail. This is only a portion of the basement scanned from a blueprint. My basement is much larger but this is the area I have to work with. Entrance to the shop/furnace area is at the top where it shows 2' 10" opening. The left side and bottom of the drawing are foundation walls. Not possible to re-locate the water meter (main pipe comes in through the foundation at that location). Even if it was moved I wouldn't want to cover that area in case any future plumbing work needed to be done. Here's a new image showing part of the wall removed with a crude layout shape added. I figured 4x7 at the bottom leaving 2' access to the water meter, 4x9 at the top, and the leg between 3' deep (not to scale).
Don
I can't tell 100% from the plan. I am wondering which direction your floor joists above are running. If they are running perpendicular to the wall you plan to remove, they are less than 2 x 12, and there is no beam under them, that wall could easily be bearing load and you risk cracking plaster on the main floor if you remove it. I am most likely wrong because an engineered bearing wall sits on a footing and it appears you have a column supporting a beam running perpendicular (the dotted line) to the wall you plan to remove. In that case, you should be OK. Still, houses settle. Even on non load bearing basement walls and anything you do to them can pop a crack in the plaster above. Removing a small section at a time over a period of two months is a safe way to remove a non load bearing wall because it is the shock from removing the wall all at once that cracks plaster.
Otherwise that's a good benchwork plan for a folded dogbone track plan and gives a good view of everything. If you make both legs 5 ft wide you can get 048 Fastrack or 054 tubular track in the plan which are good radi. If the water meter is below benchtop level, it wouldn't hurt to cover it up if it sends a digital signal to a remote readout display (most do these days). Plumbers delve into 2 foot crawl spaces with dirt floors all day so it wouldn't hurt if they had to crawl under your benchwork if you provide reasonable access. If not, you can put up a backdrop between the layout edge and meter space. If you're real concerned about local building codes, you may want to check them. Most want 30" mininum clearance at electrical service panels but it's possible 30" may apply to water meters depending on your area.
Top left corner looks like it will be quite a reach unless you have long arms or put in a pop up in the scenery over there. Do you have a moisture problem in the basement? Some of the others on the pot haved shared their woes with failed sump pumps.
Thanks for the replies.
It is not a load bearing wall - that room was built by the previous owner in 1996. The rest of the structure has been in place since the house was originally built in 1965, so I'm not worried about removing the wall.
For that upper left corner I could chop it at a 45 so the edge is within reach, or create a pop up. For the water meter access another idea I had would be to leave the corner open, put the bottom layout section along the bottom wall next to the meter, and connect to the rest with liftout bridge. We do have an electronic meter, but I don't want to cover the area - I still want to have easy access to the main shutoff.
As for moisture, it's not too bad. I do run a dehumidifier during the summer which keeps the basement at about 60%.
Haven't thought of a track plan yet. I've seen a lot of great stuff from people on this forum - hopefully I can steal some ideas and put something together. My next step is to buy RRTrack and start playing around (and of course clear the power tools and junk out of the room, tear out the walls, paint, ...).
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Don,
If you truly loved your wife, your first move would be to relocate the laundry facilities up a floor or two. And while you're at it, quietly have the plumber move the hot water tank to the right and closer to the furnace, though you're probably on natural gas and would have to move the feed as well.
Wife would be thrilled with the former, would thank you every week forever, and would not notice the latter for a few years, if ever.
Becoming a hero in the household while quietly taking space for trains by eminent domain. Win win.
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
RockIsland52 wrote: Don, If you truly loved your wife, your first move would be to relocate the laundry facilities up a floor or two. And while you're at it, quietly have the plumber move the hot water tank to the right and closer to the furnace, though you're probably on natural gas and would have to move the feed as well.Wife would be thrilled with the former, would thank you every week forever, and would not notice the latter for a few years, if ever.Becoming a hero in the household while quietly taking space for trains by eminent domain. Win win.Jack
That was last year's project (unfortunately the thanks don't last forever). The laundry used to be on the first floor, I moved it back. The contractor the previous owner used did such a hack job I had to completely redo all of the plumbing, including the gas for the dryer. The basement is basically mine, but that laundry area is unusable. I have storage shelves in there, utility sink, chest freezer, plus off the top of the image to the left is the back set of stairs. Also the circle on the opposite side of the top wall on the left is an ejector pump, so not much more room to be gained. Other areas of the basement are taken up by a gym and finished area for my bar and pool table. Too many hobbies I guess.
Don, with what you greyed out, that would give you over 56' of outside mainline following the horseshoe! Sweet. You'll need a lot of cars to fill that up. As Jumijo posted somewhere, I have space envy.
The room with the workbench looks promising as well.
I agree with Chief on leaving some of the walls in place, and having the trains disappear.
The area where the workbench looks like prime real estate for a reversing loop.
Don,This is what I would do...
Now if you could have someone install a remote water meter to the outside, or into the laundry room, then you would be in better shape, if you can't move the water meter outside altogther.
Fife, are you saying that your opinion is to not remove the walls? Would you then just put an L shaped layout in instead of a U?
I don't have much of a collection, so O42 or 54 would be fine with me - I not willing to spend the bucks on massive locos.
That workbench I just build a month ago, complete with pegboard on the wall for hanging tools, etc. I'd hate to relocated it. Also on the far right wall above the workbench are additional storage shelves. BTW, that short wall next to the water heater is not there - just part of the blueprint but never built. I'll play around with it some more and see if I can come up with other configurations.
Don - I like the idea of having a layout in a dedicated room, so when you enter your "world", the other distractions are out of sight. If you need a "spark" for a basic trackplan, you can check out my layout in the Jan 08 CTT. That original 9 x 6 kept me busy for several years.
Can you describe a little more of what you want, and what you are going to collect? HiRail? Traditional? What would you like to incorporate?
Fife, I have very little now - a few starter 4-4-2s and a PW prarie. I like PW, probably will stick with it. Would also like to get something from Williams or RailKing. I'm slowly collecting PW operating accessories and cars, so I'm definitely interested in the "toy" train feel rather than Hi rail (although I drool over the Utube videos of the big MTH Premier locos). I do however want to add realistic scenery too.
Another thought I had if keeping the walls was to move the lower portion out to make the wall straight, giving me 9' total width in the room. Only concern there is clearance to the water heater, plus it moves the floor drain (marked F.D.) inside the room, and I'd have to run the WH/furnace drain under the wall. And i may encroach on the existing workbench. Not a big deal I guess. After looking at it on paper with the wall removed I do like the open feel. The ceiling is low (7' 4") so I think keeping the wall may make it too closed in, plus amplify the noise.
Brent - you're making a lot more work (and $$) for me! This would be my first layout, so I don't want to get in over my head. Since you made the upper area larger (about 6'x'9), that means you would put a pop-up some where in there for access? That liftout bridge is what I had in mind for keeping access to the meter. Also intersting thought on closing in the furnace and WH. I assume I would need a louvered door for ventilation.
Don,Depends on the type of heat you have if Natural Gas, Kerosene, Oil, Propane, yes you would need a louvered door. If electric or heat pump you shouldn't need that. Since you already have two doors you can just reuse one on the utility room. If they are 6 panel or 4 panel and you must have louvers, you could cut out the panels and install screening.As for the size, start with the upper area and then expand out as time and money permit... see Fife's layout again... he is doing that and doing it well.Anything over 3 feet will pretty much require a popup if you aren't 7' tall and have 60" reach. You can hide your popup behind buildings, behind mountains, or 'under' a lake...The reason I enclosed the utility room is this removes a visual distraction. As for the workbench... leave it for now and when you get down to the area and realize how much space you could gain for the layout, then you'll move it. Kurt was right that realestate is prime space for a reversing loop, or two.
OK, last one for the day. As previoulsy suggested I utilized the lower right corner and relocated the workbench. Of course this would make the benchwork framing more complicated, plus the added cost and complexity of the liftout bridges. I'm going to start trying some track plans to see what I can fit into each shape. I'd like to have multiple levels, a town, passenger station, and a small yard with room for operating accessories.
One last question - does RRTrack allow you to make multiple levels/grades? If not, is there a better SW to use? I haven't decided which track to use, but I'm leaning toward GG flex - seems to be the most economical next to tubular.
Bob Nelson
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