Before I get too far along and forget something I want to plan this out.I am dropping power drops for my layout and want to be able to switch between Conventional (Z4000) and TMCC (Modern ZW). Do I need to run the power source for both units in a loop under the track, or just run wires from the distribution panel to the track drops?
Hello Brent:
They can share the same wiring to the track. You will need to install an electrical switch to be able to toggle from one transformer to another.
However, you would be able to operate both simultaneously. Is there a reason you do not want to do this?
Regards,
John
Brent,
The type of switch you need I think is a double pole double throw (DPDT)with center off, Radio Shack or Home Depot have these switches in stock.
I have not seen rotary switches for sale in a few years, used to be for low voltage remote control panels in houses for communication systems in a large house. Either Radio Shack or Mouser Electronics www.mouser.com or other electronics store may carry them. With the mouser site type in what you want under search for product, helps if you know the manufacturer.
Lee F.
I'm strictly a conventional guy. And TMCC, along with DCS are as foreign to me as Timbucktoo. But if not mistaken, each seems to work best with different wiring configurations. I think TMCC works best when the wiring bus is run along the underneath the layout table in more or less the same configuration as the track, with power drops coming up off of it. Whereas DCS works best with a star pattern or daisy wheel configuration? Conventional running uses either configuration, but I'd prefer the bus method because it's cleaner, neater, but not easier.
Someone who uses both systems will chime in and gladly correct me if I'm wrong. That's the only thing I'm sure of in this entire post!!!
I'll be down in July to paint your backdrops for you. Got my drawin' hand all loosened up!
Psych!
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Brent:
I follow basically what you are doing. Lee is correct in that DPDT switches will enable you to switch from one transformer to another. However, if you are either going to be running conventional engines or TMCC engines, but not both, I believe you can use the same transformer with the same wiring.
As for block wiring, hopefully Bob Nelson will chime in with some suggestions. He has, on a number of occasions provided great insight on how to utilize conventional block wiring on a layout.
Jumijo wrote: Brent,I'm strictly a conventional guy. And TMCC, along with DCS are as foreign to me as Timbucktoo. But if not mistaken, each seems to work best with different wiring configurations. I think TMCC works best when the wiring bus is run along the underneath the layout table in more or less the same configuration as the track, with power drops coming up off of it. Whereas DCS works best with a star pattern or daisy wheel configuration? Conventional running uses either configuration, but I'd prefer the bus method because it's cleaner, neater, but not easier. Someone who uses both systems will chime in and gladly correct me if I'm wrong. That's the only thing I'm sure of in this entire post!!! I'll be down in July to paint your backdrops for you. Got my drawin' hand all loosened up! Psych! Jim
Jim,
I am using DCS and have wired it in bus style with power drops as needed and have DPDT toggle switches installed in case I want to run a conventional engine or two on the DCS controlled track. Important!! Power runs thru a DSC loco when it is powered down!!! Had an accident with a DCS loco that was powered down and another set of engines, the conventional set took off like a rocket sled on rails when I mistakingly moved the DCS loco across an insulated block and that bridged a power gap, forgot to power down the DCS system. I assume that TMCC does the same.
Lee Baby,
Do you have a light installed somewhere in your power line for a clearer DCS signal?
Jumijo wrote: Lee Baby,Do you have a light installed somewhere in your power line for a clearer DCS signal?Jim
Lighted lockon's [Realtrax, Lionel for tublar or other brand] work great and then give you "sight" to power on the line.
TMCC will run conventionals better with TCP's than DCS in variable move. Yes, bridge the gap and it gets 18 V. I run my conventionals on one loop and command on the other.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
MTH doesn't say to do that in the instruction manual for DCS or Proto Sound, so no I don't put a light bulb in the power line like you may need to for some Lionel stuff. Did you read what I did to cause the SD-45's to take off? Well I moved the PS-2 equipped loco across a section of insulated track and had it bridge the electrical gap with the power set at 16 volts on from the Z1000, DCS unit turned off. What I am trying to say is that an unpowered command control loco still bridges an electrical gap with the command feature turned off. For future trouble shooting and mistake corrections I have installed a momentary contact kill switch that shorts the power out to throw the Z1000's breaker, acts like a dead short! I don't have that problem on conventional control because either it moves or it don't move.
Hopefully Jim I have explained the problem that I had with my DCS system, or should I say it was operator head space timing delay trouble.
See link below.
DCS Light Bulb Trick
The rotary switches, or whatever other kind of switches you use, to connect blocks to different transformer outputs can just as well serve to connect to the different transformers. You just need as many switch positions as there are different sources that could power each block, plus an "off" position for parking unpowered trains.
Rotary switches, particularly ones able to carry the two-digit current that toy trains can draw, can be expensive. However, Mouser has a pretty good 15-ampere single-pole 12-position switch, 105-14571 (Lorlin CK1458), for $4.76:
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/LN-800008.pdf
Bob Nelson
lionelsoni wrote:Don't forget to order knobs too!
BRENT,
Use the star patern for both transformers. I did with DCS and TMCC. I have the newer ZW with the 180 bricks. The TIU for my MTHs I have 2 lines powered by 2 180watt bricks. Have 2 lines that if I want to run conventionals can with the ZW, and Cab1 or Legacy.
laz57
laz 57 wrote: BRENT, Use the star patern for both transformers. I did with DCS and TMCC. I have the newer ZW with the 180 bricks. The TIU for my MTHs I have 2 lines powered by 2 180watt bricks. Have 2 lines that if I want to run conventionals can with the ZW, and Cab1 or Legacy.laz57
BRENT if you'd see my wiring. Looks like a masive spider web with all the drops I have. But through all the confusion it does work.
lionelsoni wrote: The rotary switches, or whatever other kind of switches you use, to connect blocks to different transformer outputs can just as well serve to connect to the different transformers. You just need as many switch positions as there are different sources that could power each block, plus an "off" position for parking unpowered trains.Rotary switches, particularly ones able to carry the two-digit current that toy trains can draw, can be expensive. However, Mouser has a pretty good 15-ampere single-pole 12-position switch, 105-14571 (Lorlin CK1458), for $4.76:http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/LN-800008.pdf
The printed circuit terminals are for mounting and soldering the rotary switch onto a circuit board. You probably want the solder lugs.
I don't know what you would use the second pole for; but you might eventually want to select more than 5 power sources. So I would go with the 12-position switch.
As for routing the track common, I will leave that to the DCS-TMCC guys to answer. It doesn't matter for conventional operation.
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