Good looking Pennsylvania madison cars for plastic Lionel 8141 2-4-2 steam engine

[lionel2986]

Hi,
My first Lionel engine was a 8141 Pennsylvania steamer. I'm assuming this engine isn't a model of an actual Pennsylvania steam engine. I can't find any information that Pennsylvania RR used a Columbia steam engine that looked like this. However, it is my first lionel engine so it means alot to me. I've always liked madison cars and was curious if someone could point me towards nice looking Pennsylvania madison cars that would look good behind this engine. It isn't a heavy engine and has 1 traction tire so they can't be heavyweights. I also want to run on 0-27 curves so I'm looking for small, good looking madison cars. Or am I better off getting something like these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-PENNSYLVANIA-16001-16002-16003-PASS-OBSER-CARS_W0QQitemZ370006279573QQihZ024QQcategoryZ4148QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118

 I figure I shouldn't pull more than 3 or 4 cars with this engine given it's weight and single traction tire.

Here is a picture of my engine I found on ebay:

 

 

I forgot to note, diecast trucks and couplers would be nice too. Plastic ones seem to break whenever I store the trains. 

 

[Kooljock1]

What you want is a set of Lionel "Baby Madison" cars from two years ago. They're short versions of pre-war heavy-weights designed for O-27 curves and switches. The new cars have detailed interiors just begging to be populated with figures, overhead lighting, and die-cast trucks and couplers.

Here's a shot of mine:



Jon

[dukegg1]

I have the old Broadway Limited-type passenger cars from the MPC era. As long as the lights dont burn out, Im OK with them. They show up on eBay every now & then at a pretty good price.

[Jumijo]

Here's a shot of mine:



Jon

Jon,

If I haven't told you this before, I love the way you made those hills in the background! Great texture. Just super!

Jim 

[Jumijo]

 

Adam,

That plastic locomotive isn't likely to pull many cars. I'd recommend looking into the Pennsylvania passenger car add-on pack that Lionel offers in its current catalog. The cars are very light and shouldn't pose a problem for your little loco.  They aren't Madisons though. They look like the ones in the Ebay link.

Jim 

[LL675]

I bought my little girl an 8141. It'll pull 6 or 7 mPC cars with no problem. I have the 16000 series cars too. I don't think the 8141 would pull the whole set, but the three in your ebay link would be fine with it.

[lionelsoni]

How about the "Baby Madison" "Broadway Limited" cars from the seventies, 9507-10 and 9513-15, and the 9520 "Truman" campaign observation.

[lionel2986]

Kooljock1 - Those madison cars look beautiful. Not sure if they would look out of place behind my old 8141.

dukegg1 - What do you mean "as long as the lights don't burn out". Are you saying replacement bulbs are hard to find or are you saying they burn out frequently? These broadway cars just might be what I'm looking for. My engine is MPC so they might look right together.

I have the old Broadway Limited-type passenger cars from the MPC era. As long as the lights dont burn out, Im OK with them. They show up on eBay every now & then at a pretty good price.

Jumijo - I was thinking about the new Pennsylvania flyer set too. I'm not sure if those silver cars would look better than the brown ones behind my engine since my engine is gray. By the way, I saw your layout in the last CTT issue, it's beautiful.

LL675 - I thought those passenger cars in the ebay auction were from the MPC era. Are you saying they will be more difficult to pull than MPC cars?

lionelsoni - Thanks for the part numbers.. sure makes it easier to find the cars :) 

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Looks like I have to decide between the brown "steamlined" 16000 series, MPC broadway madisons, or the new silver with brown stripe Pennsylvania flyer cars. I'm leaning towards the MPC broadway cars since they are madison and I already have 3 0-27 "streamlined" new haven cars to run behind my EP-5 :)

[Kooljock1]

Adam,

Those cars in my picture are just new versions of the MPC-era "Baby Madison" cars. The thing is, in the MPC era these cars had no interiors, just frosted windows. They also had plastic four-wheel trucks and dummy couplers that were screwed into the body. Any rough track, and you'd lose your train!

The current versions as shown above use the old MPC tooling, but now have interior details and clear windows, and integral die-cast trucks/couplers.

As far as replacing the bulbs in the originals, SOME people have issues with removing the roofs. I find it super-simple, as two windows on each side are wedge-shaped, and only require pressing in and lifting. The whole roof and window assembly then pops off. I usually depress the two windows at one end and lift, and then the other two. Takes seconds.

The modern versions have two screws on the bottom that attach the roofs.

Jon

Jim: Thanks! I just cut "mountain shapes" out of thin blue foam board, sprayed it with a heavy coat of green paint, and then sprinkled on various shades of ground foam.

[dukegg1]

 I understand they are hellish to replace. Mine are 30 years old now & still light up. I like the look of them lit with the flat white windows (although I hate that look in the MPC cabooses).

I dont have the Broadway Limited engine, Ive just picked up the coaches here & there (mostly on eBay or at meets) until I had them all (except the Truman car).

 

Kooljock1 - Those madison cars look beautiful. Not sure if they would look out of place behind my old 8141.

dukegg1 - What do you mean "as long as the lights don't burn out". Are you saying replacement bulbs are hard to find or are you saying they burn out frequently? These broadway cars just might be what I'm looking for. My engine is MPC so they might look right together.

I have the old Broadway Limited-type passenger cars from the MPC era. As long as the lights dont burn out, Im OK with them. They show up on eBay every now & then at a pretty good price.

Jumijo - I was thinking about the new Pennsylvania flyer set too. I'm not sure if those silver cars would look better than the brown ones behind my engine since my engine is gray. By the way, I saw your layout in the last CTT issue, it's beautiful.

LL675 - I thought those passenger cars in the ebay auction were from the MPC era. Are you saying they will be more difficult to pull than MPC cars?

lionelsoni - Thanks for the part numbers.. sure makes it easier to find the cars :) 

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Looks like I have to decide between the brown "steamlined" 16000 series, MPC broadway madisons, or the new silver with brown stripe Pennsylvania flyer cars. I'm leaning towards the MPC broadway cars since they are madison and I already have 3 0-27 "streamlined" new haven cars to run behind my EP-5 :)

[brianel027]

If one is willing to make small alterations, every problem described above can be fixed.

-Those plastic bodied steamers can pull double their current loads by adding weight to the metal motor chassis and the shell, proper adhesion of the traction tire. You'll have to replace the front headlight with a bulb with wire leads to utilize the front of the shell for added weight, but that will actually too, be an improvement. Trust me, I have a small fleet of these kinds of steamers and they now pull like champions. A 8-10 car train is pulled with ease, guaranteed!

-Another fix I have discovered with the early MPC locos, is that the wires used are not much heavier than those used on locos with DC can motors. Yet the open frame AC motor draws so much more current. I replace all motor wires on my MPC locos with a heavier gauge wire. I have seen dramatic improvement of these locos. I have one Dockside, that after changing the wires, runs and pulls so much better... no other alterations, no added weight... it's really amazing how that little guy pulls a train!

-The early MPC Madison cars can run fine, even with the dummy trucks, by minor modification of the screw mounts and by using a Dremel to open up the space within the casting of the dummy plastic coupler. A little added weight over the trucks will help.

-The plastic molded window mounts that snap in are a pain. This can be fixed, once you actually do manage to get the window insert out, you'll notice the molded sloped "snaps" that are on the window piece that go into windows of the car body. Use a Dremel with a sanding bit to take down the straight side of the sloped "snap" so that is is not quite as high, and so that the top side is a little more rounded. These window inserts will now go in and out with ease.

[LL675]

How about the "Baby Madison" "Broadway Limited" cars from the seventies, 9507-10 and 9513-15, and the 9520 "Truman" campaign observation.

 

 

went to the Carnegie Science Center today to see their layout. AWSOME!! they had a 2-4-2 with those cars. looked great! the only problem is now I want a set to put behind one of my 675s.

[LL675]

the 16000 series would be fine, but I don't think the 8141 would pull the whole 7 or 8 set.

[lionel2986]

Kooljock1 - I didn't realize your set uses the same tooling as the MPC. I guess that means they will look just as good (or bad ) going around 0-27 turns. Since your cars seem to have all the MPC madison car problems corrected, I may have to look into those.

Brianel027 - Thanks for the tip! I'm really looking forward to modifying my 8141 since it is an engine I could never sell. I actually have it appart now for cleaning. That is why I couldn't take a picture and I had to borrow a 8141 picture from ebay. I might add weights and replace the power wire while I have it open. What gauge wire do you recommend, and what glue do you use to give the traction tire "proper adhesion"? I just bought a brand new OEM traction tire. Also, what do you use to add weight? Is it something I could find around the house? I don't think I would like to modify the passenger cars I buy. I may decide to sell them and try something new so maybe I should go with Kooljock1's suggestion. Hopefully they won't cost much more than the MPC.

[traindaddy1]

 

Adam,

That plastic locomotive isn't likely to pull many cars.

Jim 

I like mine. It has been able to pull as many as six  postwar cars with ease. The weight add-on posts seem like great ideas.  Good luck.

[Jumijo]

The lack of weight is the biggest culprit. Many hobby shops sell self adhesive weights that can be added (to the inside of the shell) to give it more tractive power. Brian's idea of adding thicker wires is interesting. Also, make sure to clean those driver wheels!

Jim 

[brianel027]

Lionel2986, I believe I used 18 or 20 gauge wire. Although it is nicer to buy single rolls of one color wire at one thickness, I save money by buying either mixed roll packs or variety bags of different gauge wire.

I use 3M carpet tape cut on a piece of clean glass to adhere my traction tires. I use the 3M carpet tape for all sorts of projects, so I always have an extra roll on hand. It works fine for me, and if I need to remove it, a straight edge screwdriver gets the tape off, and either 91% isopropyl alcohol or mineral spirits will get the remaining tape residue off. Some folks use some sort of Super Glue... you could try a search on that topic here.

I use self-sticking lead automotive tire weights for added weight to my locos. On the lightweight steamers, I add weight to the outside and inside of the sheet metal motor housing. A DC can motor allows a little more room inside the frame than does a AC open frame motor. Depending on the type of e-unit, you can get some added weight on the ends of the frame too. I also add weights to the inside of the plastic shell where ever there's space, while still allowing the maneuverability to get the shell on and off the frame assembly. Usually some will fit both in back and upfront. I find I have to drill the headlight opening just slightly to fit in a new bulb with wire leads, which I connect to the existing wires. Depending on the type of bulb you use, you might not have to open up the inside diameter of the headlight casting.

I've even added weights to the inside of the cab floor, and then glue engineer figures to the new floor,where there isn't as much space on the inside of the loco shell, as with yours because of the AC motor.

Jumijo, if you were to use the self-sticking lead tire weights (which are affordable and practical) I'd spray paint them good first or wrap the surfaces of them with electical tape, just as a precaution with your precious young engineers. The article was very nice, your kids look like real sweethearts (though I'm sure the boys can be a handful... just the nature of boys, huh) and that's a nice family layout you have there. If the weights were inside the loco, it wouldn't be any problem. But like inside the loco cab floor, I'd get them coated good with spray paint. Hey, I was surprised... you're just a young-un compared to a lot of us old folks here.

Also very nice that your wife goes along with the hobby... I'm sure she helps keep you in-line as far as train purchases! I think JL Cohen (if he were still with us) would be pleased and proud of your family layout... what you've done is exactly the way they promoted and marketed the trains for years! I'm also sure the first reaction of the kids upon seeing the first train set was priceless and proves what I've been saying forever... there's a place for starter and low-end trains which do more for this hobby than many give them credit for.

[Jumijo]

Jumijo, ...The article was very nice, your kids look like real sweethearts (though I'm sure the boys can be a handful... just the nature of boys, huh) and that's a nice family layout you have there. If the weights were inside the loco, it wouldn't be any problem. But like inside the loco cab floor, I'd get them coated good with spray paint. Hey, I was surprised... you're just a young-un compared to a lot of us old folks here.

Thanks for the kind words, Brian! Those 2 boys are quite a handful alright. But only when they are awake. Love them to pieces! And I'm a lot older than I look! A lot older! Time for my Geritol. Is Lawrence Welk on today?

Jim