Okay, third time posting (but this time, hopefully on the right forum):
We have a pre-war Lionel O gauge set that has been passed down. The engine was cleaned and refurbished professionally. We would like to use it this Christmas but do not know how to wire the transformer.
The transformer is a "Multi Control TrainMaster" 110 Watt Type RW, 155V 60Cycle AC only. It has a lever contol for the volts, a black whistle button and red direction button.
The back of the transformer has 5 posts. The top row is A,U, and B, the second row is C and D.
How to I attach this to the clips on the rail (3 rail system)?
Thank you.
U to the center rail. A, B, or C to the outside rails. Using A will give you 9-19 volts, B 6-16 volts, C 0-10 volts. If you have a lockon (the thing that clips to the track), terminal 1 is the center rail, 2 is the outside rails; but you can probably see that.
(I think you meant 115 volts, not 155.)
Bob Nelson
If all you intend to do is hook your Type RW up to the track to run one train and nothing else, it is pretty straightforward:
For 6 to 16 volts variable (the throttle) designate post U as "common" and connect it to an outside rail; connect post B to the center rail.
For 9 to 19 volts variable (the throttle) designate post U as "common" and connect it to an outside rail; connect A to the center rail.
I wouled start with the first option. Some pre-war locomotives required a higher voltage than more modern ones. If yours is one of them and you don't get enough power, try the second optionl
Check out http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/transfmr/ps6.pdf for a useful discussion of Lionel transformers. See expecially the chart on p.6 at the top right for various options with the Type RW.
We disagree on which rail to connect the U terminal to. It actually doesn't matter if all you are doing is running a prewar train with no accessories.
If you were to connect up any accessories that have a return common with the track, U to the center rail is proper for this transformer. In this case, D is likely the terminal you would use to power the accessory. Lionel inexplicably made their single-control and multi-control transformers different in this respect.
Bob,
As you say, either way will work in this straight-forward application. You are correct in that early on Lionel established a cockamamie hook-up "convention" that used different designations for "common" depending on whether a transformer was designed to have just one or two-or-more throttles. What they accomplished was a confusing (albeit versatile) wiring convention that has bewildered virtually everyone concerned, from the customers to their own employees, virtually until this day. I am speaking, of course, about the early "pre-revision" CW80's.
In view of this, I decided to cite the original Lionel materials from the era in question and rely on the horse's mouth, so to speak. Which end of the "Lionel horse" are you citing?
Before we confuse this member further, I think we can agree that U-B will provide the low range to the throttle; whereas U-A will provide the higher range. As you say, it really doesn't matter which goes to center rail and which goes to outside rail in this simple application. Agreed?
lionelsoni,
Thanks Bob. I woudn't have posted at all except for the fact that I was busy writing mine when yours popped up. I tried to emphasize simplicity and provide a reference, which I had to look up. (I can't get away with posting ex cathedra, as you can. ) Of course, "my" source supports your scheme at least equally to mine; and better if you add accessories.
What I failed to mention was that the opening paragraph of the source that I cited gives a better-than-nothing overview of the concept of "common ground" which I thought might be of general interest to the forum. Given the precise nature of the original question (at least as I read it) and the fact that its was the questioner's third try, I deliberately chose to eliminate all consideration of adding fixed-voltage accessories. In the end, your choice of options is more versatile.
One thing that neither of us pointed out was that the metal plate on top of the transformer likely shows all that really needs to be known -- if it's still legible -- right under the throttle pointer, showing the hook up posts for the two throttle ranges: AU high; BU low. It's amazing how many folks never see this; or, if they do, don't understand what it means. It is a feature common to many old Lionel transformers.
If I recall correctly, you employ an old Type Z (as opposed to ZW) transformer. One feature thereof is a max voltage output of 25 or so, which some pre-war trains might need. Or does the fact that most of the wall sockets now put out about 120 volts, as opposed to the 110 volts that were common in "the old days" mean that the "19" volts of the high range on the Type RW will actually measure in the low twenties, and be more than enough? (I'm not certain that was a sentence, but it was meant to be a question.)
Related questions are what do see as the normal house voltage at your wall sockets; and what is the max no-load voltage you can get out of your Type Z? Thanks in advance.
I actually use two Zs (and a T for the elevated track). I just took some measurements, with my best high-precision Radio Shack meter, and got: 125 volts on the power line, 115 out of my isolation transformer, and 25 maximum out of a Z.
The RW was specified for 115 volts; so I would expect only about a volt increase from running it at 120, 2 volts at 125.
Bob
Regarding the hookups to the old transformers, I purchased from Ebay a Model 1033 90 watts which is what we used with my train when it was purchased in 1955. The transformer was in almost new condition but the wires cracked when I took it out of the box from being wrapped around the transformer for years. I replaced the cord and I'm using the lockon clip which was with the setup but it didn't seem to have enough juice to push it all the way around the track so I added another set of wires to the same posts and another lockon further around the track and it seems to work. However now the whistle won't work and it won't reverse. Also I used 16 gauge wire on my new connections, the old wire was about 22 gauge one wire type like is used on some of my accessories like lights and waiting platform. I ordered some flat 4 wire for my switches but I don't have it yet so they are not in the layout. Where do I do on this forum to find info on connecting switches and accessories to my transformer.
Thanks CC
Because the whistle and reverse functions are both done by the same switch on the 1033, operated by the left handle, I suggest checking first to see whether the problem is in the transformer. With the locomotive running, unplug the transformer and then plug it in again. If the e-unit (reversing unit) cycles in the locomotive, then the problem is with that switch inside the transformer. Are you sure you didn't disturb anything when you replaced the power cord? Did you replace any other wires?
Here is a link to the 1033's repair manual, in case you don't have it: http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=640
THX for the advice but somehow it cured itself. I disconnected the 14 gauge wire and now I'm using two of the thinner gauge single strand wire. Maybe I had one connected backwards. OK just to confirm; center rail to A and outside rail to U post correct? I think I need to check all the track pins. I ordered some om Ebay but they were for O not O-27- I didn't realize there was a difference.
CC
No, outside rails to A and center rail to U for transformers like the 1033 that are meant for a single train. As the old postings mentioned, it can work the other way around. But there will then be problems with accessories that use track circuits, and the whistles on modern locomotives may not work.
Twenty-two AWG is a bit small to be safe, even for the 5-ampere 1033. It's an overkill in your case, but I generally recommend 14 AWG as easy to find, very effective as feeders (if wired correctly ;-), and safe with the largest postwar transformers that you might ever use.
Not to be a total idiot but just to be sure, you are saying to use 14 gauge wire for all my connections from the transformer to the track lockons correct? I went back to the 14 gauge(is 14 AWG the same thing?) to one lockon and then ran smaller gauge from thta lockon to the next one and so on. I have 4 lockons at present since I seem to be losing power the further away from the transformer I get. I went to Autozone and bought a spool of 18 which I am going to replace the smaller single strand wire with. The thin gauge wire is what we used when I was little, but of course all the connections and pins were new then. I guess I need to check all the pins first but I'm trying to get it operational for my grkid. BTW how do the accesories connect like the waiting staion with two lights in the ceiling and the street lamps. Do they need special bulbs? Sorry for all the questions and if there is somewhere else I should go to ask my questions so as not to bother you with beginner issues please advise me.
THXS
Another question; why when my train is running out of steam will my moving the red whistle switch to the right give it more juice? The whistle doesn't work but the train runs faster,
THX CC
When the whistle is blown, the transformer provides additional voltage to the track to compensate for the power used by the whistle motor. That is why the trains run faster.
If the whistle motor does not blow, the whistle rectifier in the transformer may need replacing and/or the whistle motor needs servicing.
Larry
AWG stands for "American Wire Gauge" (which is the same as the Brown and Sharpe gauge). It is a logarithmic scale used in America for non-ferrous electrical wire, like copper and aluminum. The rest of the world specifies wire by the cross-sectional area in metric units.
Strictly speaking what you're losing with distance from the transformer is voltage, not power, but we know what you mean.
Some years back CTT published some tests of the resistance of various popular kinds of track, including tubular. The result was that practically all track is electrically equivalent to about 16 AWG. This is a very rough rule of thumb, especially when loose connections are taken into account. But it suggests that reducing voltage drop with extra feeders quickly becomes futile when the feeder gauge gets smaller than about 16. That's one reason why I tend to use and recommend 14 AWG.
Accessories can be powered from the same wires that feed the track, but they usually look and work better when run at a constant voltage, like terminals A and C of the 1033. Different accessories have different lamp sockets: Older accessories are likely to have miniature Edison sockets, for which I suggest number 52 lamps. Newer ones have miniature bayonet sockets, for which I suggest number 53.
Charlie covered your question about the whistle-voltage boost. (It's 5 volts in the 1033.)
Ask away. You're not the only one with questions--lots of other forum members will benefit!
Thanks Bob
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