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Why 2?

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Why 2?
Posted by magicman710 on Saturday, November 3, 2007 10:23 PM

Why exactly did Lionel make 027 and regular o gauge track? Now I do know that 027 has shorter straights, and sharper curves, but why couldnt the same be done to O gauge track? Which came first?

 

 

Thanks!

"Lionel trains are the standard of the world" - Jousha Lionel Cowen

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Posted by 1688torpedo on Saturday, November 3, 2007 10:50 PM

 Hello Grayson!

 Lionel Started with 0 Gauge Track in 1915 as they wanted something smaller than Standard Gauge Track & saw the Success that Ives had with 0 Gauge while they were located in Connecticut in the years of 1910-1915 at New Haven,Ct.( Yes, Lionel had a factory in New Haven for a few years at that time) Ironically, Lionel started making 0-27 Track & Trains after they took over the Ives Corporation in 1930 after they bought out American Flyers interests in the old Ives Corporation. The 0-27 is intended as an economy line for budget buyers while the 0 Gauge Track & Trains are for more expensive tastes. Hope this answers your question. Take Care.

Keith Woodworth........Seat Belts save lives,Please drive safely.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 4, 2007 10:20 AM
 I am thinking cost savings. I have heard that O27 track uses 1/2 the steel of O track.
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Posted by RR Redneck on Sunday, November 4, 2007 10:56 AM

 jmsiv wrote:
 I am thinking cost savings. I have heard that O27 track uses 1/2 the steel of O track.

You hit the nail of the head.

Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.

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Posted by msacco on Sunday, November 4, 2007 11:38 AM

I realized the cost saving angle but I've always wondered why a slightly smaller radius.

anyone?

 

Mike s.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, November 4, 2007 12:27 PM

I think it's just what they inherited from Ives.  Lionel made track clips for joining O27 track together for many years afterward, with the Ives name on them as a legal scheme for keeping rights to the Ives name.  I don't know whether it worked or whether they still do it.  (I have a box of the things.)

It's interesting to me that the O31 and O27 track dimensions are based on different concepts.  The O31 straights are exactly 10 inches long.  The curves are designed so that you can put a reverse curve after a turnout to create a sidetrack with joints perfectly aligned with the main line.  This makes the radius 10 times the square-root of 2, or 14.14213562 inches (more or less), and the diameter, including the 2 1/4-inch ties, 30.53427125 inches, which is why you sometimes see it called O30, sometimes O31.  Lionel just called it "O".

The O27, on the other hand, is based on a round-number track radius of 12.5 inches, which, including the 2-inch ties, gives a diameter of--exactly 27 inches.  The length of a straight section however is an ugly number--8.838834765 inches.  This is always rounded, but to a variety of values, and leads to a lot of minor variation in the length of different manufacturers' track pieces.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by 1688torpedo on Sunday, November 4, 2007 2:18 PM

  Hello Mike W.

 Marx used to make 0-27 curved track with an 0-34 diameter & in recent years both Lionel & K-Line have made 0-27 with 42" curves as well. So, it can & has been done( Different Radius for 0-27) I guess the Answer to your question is that Trains & Track designed for 0-27 were done so for those with a limited amount of room in their homes. That would be my guess. Take Care.

Keith Woodworth........Seat Belts save lives,Please drive safely.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 4, 2007 2:35 PM

Probably the best answer is that it was the most common and Lionel liked the fact that it had the same 1 1/4 inch track gauge as O. The simple fact was it did in fact use less and lighter material.

 It sold better than O gauge with 31 inche curves and 72 inche curves. It even sold better than Super O which had a more realistic look to the track.

However in the end it was the consumers that picked 0-27 and as a result Lionel discontinued O and Super O sometime in the 1960's. They simply bought more 0-27 than any other sized track. 

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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, November 4, 2007 2:53 PM

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 4, 2007 3:13 PM
YES they did so in the mid 1960's, just a little Lionel history. Now the new Lionel did bring it back but that doesn't take away from the fact it was dropped by the older Lionel.
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Posted by ADCX Rob on Sunday, November 4, 2007 8:11 PM
 lionelsoni wrote:

...Lionel made track clips for joining O27 track together for many years afterward, with the Ives name on them as a legal scheme for keeping rights to the Ives name.  I don't know whether it worked or whether they still do it...



MTH of course, now owns the Ives trademark...



Rob

Rob

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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, November 4, 2007 8:22 PM
You're right.  It looks like around 1958-1963, going by the mentions of track systems on the catalog covers.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 4, 2007 8:34 PM
Wink [;)]

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