Never done "O"

[John Busby]

Hi guys

I often lurk in the back ground and sometimes throw my1/2c worth in when I think It might be of value.

The trains I have are OO and G scale

But I do wonder some times if "O" might be a better size being in the middle what would be a good way to get my feet wet and find out.

I dont want to out lay huge amounts of cash to find out but do want something small but worth building with entertainment value.

What are your thoughts on this

I suppose the first questions are

What do "O" gaugers define as small?

What would be a good small set to get ?

What other single item should be bought with the set to make it more interesting to play with?

I know your answers will have your personal reasons and bias so please explain those as well

If I decide to do this I would like to Know what I am in for

regards John

 

[Anonymous]

John,
I would say go with either a Lionel or MTH starter set.  They provide a small transformer, track, decent engines, and some low cost rolling stock.  If you like steam engines I would go MTH because their steam engines really put out the smoke.  Diesel - either will do you because I am not aware of any starter diesel sets that smoke.

I think MTH's come with sound, not sure about Lionel's...

[anjdevil2]

John,

after being absent for a few decades, I jumped back in.  1 toe in the water, but back in.

I started with a Lionel NYC Flyer set.  This was a inexpensive set and it has TrainSounds.  I got mine for $175 shipped (Charles Ro).  Then purchased a Pennsy Flyer, just for the rolling stock and engine.  Cost was $127 (Hobby Lobby with coupon).  I then got hooked up with my LHS (TrainWorks, thanks Dave!!) and eBay.  Dave gives me good advise and council and good deals.  eBay is just another bad habit I should break, but sometimes you find a jewel in there for cheaps.  

A side note:  In between the O from the '60's (Dad) and now, I had HO, and found it apartment friendly but a bit too smallish for me.  The O scale has the weight of real machine and always gave me the impression of being something of substance.  

My

Rich 

[phillyreading]

John B,

The guys on here are right about a strater set from either Lionel or MTH as they give you track and transformer with it.  Lionel makes add/on sets that come with three cars and some extra track, it is Fastrac though if that matters to you. Don't know if MTH makes add/on sets.

Just a couple of thoughts on Fastrac; it is a wider radius curve than 031 track-O gauge track, costs more money than tubular track in O gauge and can not be cut that easy, also Realtrax by MTH can not be cut to fit that easy either.

After being in the hobby a little while in O gauge you may want to consider Williams Trains as they make some nice locomotives at more affordable prices and the quality is great.

Lee F.

[Santa Fe Kent]

If you're considering MTH, I suggest avoiding the Loco-sound sets. I have managed to improve the sound on one of those, but it was a lot of trouble. The Proto-sound sets start at about 300

For that much, you can buy a Lionel Berkshire set with what I think is the best steam engine with great sound. Lionel also has alot of good sets for much less.

[riverrailfan]

I dont want to out lay huge amounts of cash to find out but do want something small but worth building with entertainment value.

 

Its all about accessories, accessories, accessories. The biggest bang for the buck for entertainment value.

 

 

 

[John Busby]

Hi guys

Thanks that will give me something to think about as far as start set goes that will come down to who has a dealer in AUS, I don't trust Internet transactions there are certainly some nice trains on both Lionel and MTH web sites.

Lionel don't Appear to have an AUS dealer.

Now about that layout what do you consider the smallest practical size to get something worth doing??.

Oval of track, a passing loop and a couple or three dead ends sort of thing

Just what is O27??

regards John

[phillyreading]

For starting a small layout about 4ft by 8ft might be good, a pasing loop if you have two or more trains. A dead end can be used for an industrial siding.

027 track is the lower price track and has curves in sizes; 27 inches, 42 inches and 54 inches. O gauge track looks a little more high profile and is sturdier than 027 track also costs a little more.  Then there is Fastrac by Lionel that has plastic roadbed and is more expensive than either O gauge or 027, a switch costs around $90.00 in Fastrac.

Just for your info, there are two and four train transformers that are made by a few companies like; Lionel, MTH, and MRC, if you get an MRC make sure it has A.C. output as MRC makes transformers for all scales of model railroading.

Lee F.

[lionelsoni]

O27-profile track can also be found in O34 (Marx) and O72 (K-Line).

[Nick12DMC]

Hi guys

Thanks that will give me something to think about as far as start set goes that will come down to who has a dealer in AUS, I don't trust Internet transactions there are certainly some nice trains on both Lionel and MTH web sites.

Lionel don't Appear to have an AUS dealer.

Now about that layout what do you consider the smallest practical size to get something worth doing??.

Oval of track, a passing loop and a couple or three dead ends sort of thing

Just what is O27??

regards John

Hi John, There is one major thing to bare in mind with operating 3 rail O gauge outside of the US and Canada (and other 60Hz mains powered areas). These trains are 18V AC powered not DC which means that the frequency or cycles, that mains power is generated at can become a issue.

A lot of Lionel's newer items contain electronics that malfunction on 50Hz mains power we have in the UK and you have in Aus.

So far the list of items include CW-80 transformer (as supplied in most starter sets), Any item with TrainSounds and the TMCC command system (some TMCC items do work on 50 Hz but there is no "list" of compatible items)

These issues can be solved by using a 230V 50hz to 25 Amp 12V DC power supply and a  12V to 110V 60Hz 300W pure sine inverter. This sorts the problem and gives you 60Hz US spec. power. More powerful units are avaliable but care needs to be taken due to the increased amps involved.

I am in the Lionel collectors club UK which now has a number of members with inverter set ups. It has been noted that as well as solving the newer electronics problems that older equipment also runs better on 60Hz including cooler running of US spec. transformers and better operation of vibrating accessories such as the horse corral. Thus for trouble free operation its better to use a 60Hz power source.

Regards

Nick

 

[lionelsoni]

Nick, this might be a good place to mention that the official American line voltage has been 120 volts for some time now, even though many still refer to it as "110" or "115".  This is not to say that older equipment shouldn't be run on lower voltage.  In fact, it suggests that it is better if the voltage can be lowered.  I run my type-Z transformers on 110 and a prewar type-T on 104, which keeps them nice and cool.

Things get worse when running a 120-volt transformer on 50 hertz, which might be an option for those who do not want to go the full frequency-conversion route that you have.  This is as hard on the transformer as running it on 144 volts at 60 hertz.  So, if there is an option to transform 230 volts, 50 hertz, to as low as 100 volts for operating an American transformer, it wouldn't be a bad idea to do so, even though the trains will see a few volts less.

[dougdagrump]

John, As someone who has been in "O" for a few years, an extremely contagious habit, and is just now dabbling in "G" allow me to say "Welcome To The Darkside".

Here is a site that will give you more layouts to pick and choose from than you can imagine. Heck, do as I and many others have done and pick one you like and modify to your hearts content.

But most important of all is to have FUN !!!!!!

Check out layouts : www.thortrains.hypermart.net

 

[Nick12DMC]

Nick, this might be a good place to mention that the official American line voltage has been 120 volts for some time now, even though many still refer to it as "110" or "115".  This is not to say that older equipment shouldn't be run on lower voltage.  In fact, it suggests that it is better if the voltage can be lowered.  I run my type-Z transformers on 110 and a prewar type-T on 104, which keeps them nice and cool.

Things get worse when running a 120-volt transformer on 50 hertz, which might be an option for those who do not want to go the full frequency-conversion route that you have.  This is as hard on the transformer as running it on 144 volts at 60 hertz.  So, if there is an option to transform 230 volts, 50 hertz, to as low as 100 volts for operating an American transformer, it wouldn't be a bad idea to do so, even though the trains will see a few volts less.

Bob, The same thing happened over here. The UK was 240V and mainland Europe was 220V everyone was brought into line at 230V. Most inverters are advertised as 110V so I did not want to add confusion

Nick

 

[lionelsoni]

Nick, I took it hard when you-all rejected the 240 volts that we had in common and "harmonised" with the Continent, at 230...;-)

[lionelsoni]

John, I just noticed your use of "AUS".  You all may be AUS, the country; but we here are AUS, the city.  That's our airport and Amtrak code (although it does become KAUS when used internationally).

[Prairietype]

I think you made a very good decision to ask the advice of members of this forum. As many others have said, you will find a lot of freely offerred advice and I think for the most part advice that is intended correctly.

Some of the replies that you have already seen speak to this. I learned something myself about the various voltage considerations affecting operation in other countries which is not something Ihave ever had to think about. 

I am sure that many of the members here do have a bias towards O, based on loyalty, familiarity and other factors.

One thing that I will offer for consideration concurs with some of the arguments others have made. It is good to start, perhaps with a starter set. And if you like it there is a wide range of possibility to pursue, possibly more than in any other gauge.

There are the various brands as mentioned, but, there is also the variety of scale available in O gauge. You have already inquiried about O-27.  There was an artivle in Classic Toy Trains Magazine in recent years that showed the various scales available in O gauge. I think this gives people a wide range of options and adaptability to pursue. Within Lionel you can go with small, medium and large locomotives and rolling stock which should give you the flexibility of developing the precise look that you prefer.

Also, there is so much available out there that you should be able to find and assemble most anything, from any era.  And the quality for the most part is superb, very durable and repairable.

THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED FOR ALL NEWBIES CONSIDERING JOINING THE O GAUGE CLUB, AS WELL AS JOHN BUSBY.

[John Busby]

Hi Nick12DMC

I was aware of the different mains supplies.

Can you give me exact details of what you guys in the UK are using, whatever it is it will work here with a change of mains plug.

How do you guys in the UK get Lionel direct or is there a dealer with a web site does the club have a web site.

regards John

 

[challenger3980]

Hi John,

   I really enjoy the 3 rail O stuff, I am a Lionel Fan at heart but I do have some MTH, Williams, Weaver and also K Line makes/made some really great stuff. As far as size of layout, I don't know what is "standard" in AUS for building materials. The reason the 4'X8' layout is so popular here is because, well that is the size of a standard sheet of plywood here, so it is very convenient to use, and widely available. Again you would be using Metrics, but I would recommend a 5'X9' (approx 1.6x3m) size layout by just adding 1 foot (.3m) to the length and width you gain about 33% more surface area. This allows a much greater variety of track plans and also may give you a little more edge spacing to protect equipment in case of a derailment.

   If you do decide to go with 027 track (nothing wrong with that) consider using 042 curves at least on the outside track-age, there are a lot of wonderful O-Gauge locomotives and cars that require an 031 minimum curve, Lionel's LionMaster series engines come to mind here, they have GREAT detail and even the Bigboys, Cab-Forwards and Challengers are all capable of running 031 curves without any trouble (just watch your line-side and adjacent track spacings)

   For appearances, I like the Atlas-O track, and that is what I'm planning on using for my permanent layout. Right now, I'm using MTH RealTrax for the Christmas Tree, Carpet & Western (CTC&W).

   I will admit that the MTH smoke units generally do put out more smoke than the Lionel's, but this may not be a good thing either, if you will be building your layout in a small space. Right now the CTC&W is in a 10'x11' spare bedroom (PRETTY SMALL) and the MTH smoke units can have the room looking like a Bar room before the smoking bans, It can actually get annoying, especially for guests who may not be Die-Hard train fans.

   Lionel's Berkshire starter sets are a good starting point, the Union Pacific Fast Freight set(Lionel part# 6-30024) has a good running locomotive with trainsounds sound system and four  cars including an operating side dump car. It also has a complete loop of Fast track and a CW-80 transformer, which I really like mine, but I have heard that they have issues with your 50 hertz power there in AUS. Another excellent add on locomotive is the lionel 2-8-2 Mikados, these are Superb running Locomotives with Railsounds, which has sound on sound ability, (Trainsounds is single sound, activate the whistle and the chuff goes silent) Another Excellent engine to consider would be Lionel's 0-6-0 Docksider about $110.00 (US) just a whistle for sound but has excellent detail (VERY NICE LOOKER) and operating couplers at BOTH ends, plus smoke and directional lighting, a very hard to beat loco for the money.

 A word of WARNING though, The O-Gauge Virus, is EXTREMELY CONTAGIOUS, but RARELY FATAL(unless your wife catches you buying too many trains,   is there such a thing???)

Enjoy the Hobby and feel free to ask any of us any questions that You may have.

                                                                                         Doug O'Grady

                                                                                         challenger3980

[John Busby]

 A word of WARNING though, The O-Gauge Virus, is EXTREMELY CONTAGIOUS, but RARELY FATAL(unless your wife catches you buying too many trains,   is there such a thing???)

Hi challanger3980

I think a small correction is in order if we substitute Model and Toy train, for the "O"-Gauge bit of your statement and we have the truth

Oh dear I am !! SWMBO already thinks I spend to much on trains, fortunately its tax return time so If I do up her room, get those interesting garden type bits she wants for the garden railway as well as buy a new set I will survive.

Erm I think

I have to admit the inner child liked the look of the Lionel Area 51 set and the Transylvania RR set did not seem to be any add ons for the Area 51 or I missed them

Will have to check if these two are still available have not really checked out the proper trains yet at the moment just looking to see whats about.

8x4 is a standard sheet here as well

regards John

[Nick12DMC]

Hi Nick12DMC

I was aware of the different mains supplies.

Can you give me exact details of what you guys in the UK are using, whatever it is it will work here with a change of mains plug.

How do you guys in the UK get Lionel direct or is there a dealer with a web site does the club have a web site.

regards John

Hi John,

 I tend to get my Lionel direct from the USA. We do have a UK dealer (Tennent's Trains) but you will tend to pay quiet a bit more for items from them. Much as I wish I could support them, £220 for a Polar Express set for example (without the Lionel Transformer,which they can't sell here in the UK) is just too pricey. Add around £140 for a UK 50Hz transformer/controller that will operate the basic whistle equiped Polar Express but will cause you lots of problems with more expensive locos and equipment.

 In comparison a 300W Inverter set up costs around £140. And you can run everything as designed. 

Its important for TMCC that the earth on the Inverter US socket outlet is properly connected. Check with a multimeter for continuity. 

I got the 230V to 12V DC power supply here:

http://www.amperordirect.co.uk/products/300W-12v_Power_Supply.asp

The 300W 110/120V 60Hz pure sine inverter:

http://www.invertersrus.com/inv300ps.html

The Lionel Collectors Club UK website is very basic at the moment a upgrade is in the works.

http://www.fastnet.co.uk/lionelclubuk/

 I have used the following US stores which offer a fine service.

http://www.grzyboskitrains.com/

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/

Regards

Nick

[John Busby]

Thanks guys

Now we wait and see what joy the tax man returns and what set that I can afford after the honey do list is dealt with.

The though occurs I should ask what track compatibility is like, or is it a case of you cannot mix brands of track because they all use different rail profiles and connecting methods.

Assuming brands cannot be mixed which is the best track system, you can bet a wagon or coach from more than one brand will have its appeal which could mean track/wheel compatibility problems.

And just for good measure are the Lionel three witches still available??, it might just be me but I did not see that bit on Lionel's Web site.

regards John

 

[phillyreading]

Track compatibility can be a minor issue but with 027 track or O gauge tubular most track companies match up without any problems; Marx, Lionel, K-Line, Williams.  If you have the older Ives track you may have to change the pins over to Lionel compatible pins.  K-Line Super Snap track will mate up with O gauge track if you cut off the plastic tab that sticks out.

There are some track systems that do not have adaptability with others; Super O gauge track, Fastrac & Realtrax.  T Rail by Lionel pre war track with bolts & nuts & plates made to look very realistic. 

GarGraves track needs adapter pins to go to 027 or O gauge track, 027 track mates up at the correct height for GarGraves track which means no shims needed.   Don't know if there are adapter pins to go to Atlas track for GarGraves track.  Atlas makes adapter pins for O gauge tubular to Atlas track, my opion is the Atlas adapter pins are rather flimsy.

Another track system sold by K-Line right before they went out of business was called Super Streets and it looks similar to H.O. race car track in size but has rails molded into the plastic, will not work with most locomotives or rolling stock over six inches long as the curves are 16 inch or 21 inch sizes.  There was an adapter made by K-Line to go to O gauge track, don't know if LIonel still makes all the Super Street items.  The use of Super Streets was mainly for trolley or handcars inside a city setting.

Lee F.