Hi Tom and all.
A good Winter Ale to beat this bitter cold wind, LEON and the Steak and Fries please
JAMES Good to see your computer is working well and great to read your post. I believe there is a Merchant Navy Pacific or two for sale, unfortunately it will cost a lot more money to restore the loco than to buy it, as they are still basically in the condition they left the scrapyard. It was a event when a steam loco in the UK ran at over 100 MPH, although unless the train had an experienced train timer on board it would be hard to tell. Nowadays with GPS you can sit in a train and read the speed as it goes along.
ROB The bar looks nearly normal with your evening visits and thanks for the round. Another great Classic Steam on the CnoR and the formation of the Canadian National. Was there talk at the time of Canadian Pacific being taken over as well by the government at the same time as CN was formed.
ERIC Great pic of the X2000 at St Louis, I noticed the Dome-Car in the background, perhaps Tom could guess what train it was on.
With the Beaver Tail car on the Coronation, I believe the Coronation was allowed 6 hours for the 393 miles between London to Edinburgh so the light train allowed it to keep the schedule The train's average speed for the188 miles London to York was 71.9 MPH
The 185 DMU in the pic were built by Siemans.
It seems the Fork lift museum building as been built since I last visited Swanwick. The narrow gauge railway there is worth a trip using Simplex small diesel locos and some of the cars were previously used to carry coal miners underground. At the end of the narrow gauge line is a tunnel on the dis-used Crompton canal.
CM3 It seems as though there is a quite a few railroad magazines available in North America although I see generally only about three titles on the shelves round here.
The joke as the ring of truth about it.
DL Thanks for explaining the loco hauled train from Hull for me. If I recall right, the time you traveled was when the Settle & Carlisle line was under threat of closure and only a massive campaign kept the line open. I believe today there is quite a bit of money being spent on the line. One of my first trips over the line was on an overnight train in the early 70s.It was hauled by a steam heat ‘Peak' from Glasgow via the ex Glasgow & South Western line to Carlisle then the S&C and the train terminated at Nottingham, where there was a connection to London St Pancreas. I guess this was the nearest you could get to the old Thames Clyde Express. If we can get Tom to England a trip on the S&C is a must.
Hull was a good place to see a good variety of DMUS. I will have a look at my old note books and try to see when I last saw a 123 or 124 unit. I must admit I thought they had gone earlier than 1982 but the book I had showed then still at Hull.
These Metro areas do have some very good value rail tickets for use after the morning peak period. The West Yorkshire one is real good value.
TOM I think the sales of hard spirits must have soared, despite being early morning, bought by anyone who had seen BORIS doing the Mating dance.
Another good Idiot of the Week, what a way to hand in a resignation.
It looks like Jimmy Buffit will be a good subject to talk about next time we are in the Trainwreck Saloon, anyone who has a album titled "A white sports coat and a pink crustacean", I would like to hear more about
It hard not to compare what as happened to the two Union Stations of St Louis and Kansas City. The one in KC seems very proud of its railroad past and as got Amtrak back using it. Before the old locos and cars were sold was there many dinner excursions that used the St Louis Union Station or did the excursions leave from the Amtrak station.
I'm very glad you were able to survive to be able to tell the story of the Kodiak bears Really good thing the bears were more interested in the fish.
Thanks for the poster on the CP Canadian from the 50s.To travel that route in a Dome-Car would be wonderful. I wonder if the train was steam or diesel hauled at the time the poster was issued.
Well as you can tell, by even by my standards, the late hour, I had some problems earlier but at least it was in word, (perhaps even I am learning) and despite being at Pat's Place tonight I will try again and transfer this to the forum.
LEON I will try a Holdens Golden Glow as a night cap and a round for any other night owls who call in.
Hi Rob just caught your post and will have a read of it now as I have managed to transfer this.
Pete.
Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
The work week is over, Leon. At least for me! So I'll just have a Chocolate Cobbler and Ice Cream! A lot! Yeah, and coffee! A quiet day? Hmm, I guess most of the guys are preparing for Sunday, Super Bowl! They need all the rest they can get.
CM3 – I wonder what kind of friends are the best? I think "her" friends are smarter. They can always say that they though a bad guy tried to find out where she was.
Tom – Those former Boeing employees are certainly worthy winners of the title this week!
I feel sorry for you if you will have another six weeks of winter. But I am sure Juneau will love it though! We will get warmer weather next week, 78-80° F. Mid 70’s this Sunday. I have seen a program on the History Channel about when they built the ALCAN Highway during the war. It is amazing how fast they managed to do that. It must have been a real experience to have bears around you that night on the mountain! But I guess you wouldn’t like to do it again. I certainly wouldn’t! I noticed the gas price went up 2-3 cents at some stations here today. The Canadian Pacific poster reminds me of another place in Canada I would like to see, Banff! I have seen pictures and videos from Banff and it is indeed spectacular, well worth a trip!!! DL – I did some research about Class 185 and found that there are 51 3-car units in service. Built by Siemens in Germany. They are powered by 750 hp Cummins diesels (one in each car, 3 per unit). Class 185 has replaced all of the Class 175 and most of Class 158. Next step for me will be to find out more about those classes.Route number for trains is kind of strange for me, but why not? Especially for commuter trains. Thanks for the info!
West of Flagstaff, AZ.
Eric
Leon I think my Keith's glass has a hole so I'll need a new one It's been a bit of a slow day so here is a Classic ad rerun for everyone.
CLASSIC ADS #5 AD FOR CNR'S SUPER CONTINENTAL
This first appeaared on page 210 of the old thread.
enjoy
Rob
Evening Leon, is there any of the roasted animal flesh left from the steak grill If so I'll have a nice chunk medium with a Keith's for the washing down. Another chilly one here today -10C with about another half inch of snow.We made out better than the poor folks just outside of Coburg Ontario did yesterday, a freak snow squall whited out the 401 and caused a major pile up, tanker truck exploded, a real mess. Two dead and about 12 in hospital. The OPP still has not openned the east bound lanes yet 24hrs after the fact.A sad day to be sure.
Tom-nice CP ad sir, the usual top notch stuff 5x for that one fer sure fer sure. I'm not sure that I would want a bear encounter like that nope not for me. I can remember that the Brantford station plateforms were not much better than those in St loo all that long ago, they were replaced in 2005 when all the restoration work was done to the station itself.It's nice to be back in full flight around here, I feel like I'm holding up my end finally
I have to say that your second idiot of the week is likely a bigger winner than week one's , though only marginally. scary that people like that are building the planes we fly in.
Eric-Thanks for the info on the Stockholm PCC's, I imagine that they were equipped with pans as well.It's unlikely that your local map store carries CAA maps ( canadian automobile club ) they usually show all former and current rail lines.It's amazing how much extra and in many cases overbuilt trackage occured in Canada during the early railroad building boom, it's the exact opposite today, the big lines run on the bare minimum of trackage and maintenance
DL-yet more wonderfull emu/dmu info. Like Tom , I'm enjoying the banter between you and Pete, really interesting stuff. 5xThe TTC in Toronto also shows a large route number as well on their streetcars and buses, many US railroads used to do that as well. The Southern Pacific comes to mind.Just seems like the right thing to do,somehow todays passenger railways tend to ignore that fact, to my mind posting the route numbers like that seems like a customer friendly thing to do, but what do I know. I've noticed that as of late VIA is at least running a digital number board on their passenger cars that list the train number and the cars order number, a bit of a help at least, espeacially in the under ground plateforms of Toronto's Union station.
CM3-I'm glad that you enjoyed the CnoR piece, as I said not long on info it's just the bare bones facts.The full version would take a book ( and has actually )
Hello Tom
Can I have whatever is on the menu tonight - is it Pizza? I hope so, I'll have whatever is easiest (now that Nick is not around to cook up).
I enjoyed that bear story - not for the faint hearted.
Slightly off topic but I saw this on the news - sort of trans Atlantic story I thought regulars might find of interest. Apparently the guys in question had to make a big complaint before they go put on US army rations, as they were on civilian rations at first which was not their cup of tea:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/eastmidlands/index.shtml
Seems daft to me not to have Amtrak coming into the redeveloped terminal at St Louis - you would think that would kind of anchor the businesses (up market or not) in some kind of reality of purpose, but there we are.
Good to see Lars from the sunny zone calling in, and Rob too looks like your back with a decent connection - good to see.
James - yes the Class 442 is a 5 car electric unit capable of running in multiple (eg 10 car trains) and runs to from London and the channel port of Weymouth on the south coast of England (about a 2 hour or so run), via the port of Southampton too. They run of the 750 v DC current supply provided by a third current carrying rail - not overhead wires - this is the standard system throughout the south of England and is used because the former Southern Railway decided on this system back in the 1920s / 30s. The units were built in the 1980s.
Eric - those Class 185 units Pete showed are very new - just being introduced - I think they are German built - I have no problem with that but it is a shame we seem unable to build our own trains anymore. They have a good reputation but I have not travelled in one yet.
The 52 Number is a route number (in this case the London - Ore southbound route I guess). I don't know the logic for the numbering system but the former Southern Region of BR (and probably the SR before it) used route numbers which from time to time have appeared in public timetables, to help passengers identify their trains. It is now more common to use a destination blind that actually tells you where the train is going (sort of more straightforward!).
Pete - thanks for confirming my hunch about the summer only Beaver Obs cars - as Eric mentioned the idea was for a lightweight train that steam traction could haul fast - but then I don't need to tell you that!
I was in Hull in the early 1980s occasionally visiting relatives - I took my first trip over the Settle to Carlisle line at that time to see what it was like. At that time the Leeds Carlisle train originated in Hull - Mk1 compartment stock with Brush Type 2 at the head. This was when the line was being run down and there were only about 2 trains per day. I was captivated by the scenic splendour
http://www.settle-carlisle.org/index.cfm
There were other DMUs at Paragon station in those days but I was not very familiar with the types as I was off my home territory and only a youth, I certainly did not see the Class 124s though as I would have remembered their distinctive design I feel sure.
I've done a West Mids day rover a couple of times, you get a lot of route miles and I've been reluctant to leave the trains for the pub on such occasions!
Good weekend to all
DL
G'day Gents!
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #6
Initially Posted on Page 133 of the "old" Thread . . . Here's something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with Classic Trains. Check this poster out regarding the Canadian Pacific from the 1950's: Canadian Pacific ... by land ... across Canada Now see Canadian Pacific's spectacular Banff-Lake Louise Route - From the Scenic Domes of the "The Canadian" Mile-high in the Canadian Rockies, Banff Springs is famous the world over for its scenic surroundings, complete outdoor recreation facilities. Both Banff and nearby Lake Louise are on the route of "The Canadian." Treat yourself to the world's longest, most spectacular Scenic Dome ride as "The Canadian" winds through the Canadian Rockies on its transcontinental route. From high in the Scenic Domes of Canada's only stainless-steel Scenic Dome streamliner you'll thrill to the breath-taking view of Canada's unspoiled natural beauty. And aboard "The Canadian" you'll find the accommodations superb, the service unexcelled. You may travel tourist or first class - coach seats reserved at no extra fare. See your travel agent for information about "The Canadian" - in daily service throughout the year between Montreal or Toronto, and Vancouver. Canadian Pacific World's Greatest Travel System RAILWAYS - STEAMSHIPS - AIRLINES - HOTELS - COMMUNICATIONS - EXPRESS Enjoy! Tom
Denali Star - from my personal collection
*Idiot of the Week #2
Early this year, some Boeing employees on the airfield decided to
steal a life raft from one of the 747s. They were successful in
getting it out of the plane and home. Shortly after they took it for
a float on the river, they noticed a Coast Guard helicopter coming
towards them. It turned out that the chopper was homing in on the
emergency locater beacon that activated when the raft was
inflated. They are no longer employed at Boeing.
Here's your sign, guys. Don't get it wet; the paint might run.
STAY ALERT!
They walk among us .. and they REPRODUCE ..!!!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
It's GROUND HOG's Day in Mentor Village and Can-Am County! Guess what Boris saw his shadow and began some ritualistic mating dance with it. Something from Druid genetic links, I suspect. Anyway, in layman's language, we can look forward to 6 more weeks of winter in these parts!
It's FRIDAY and time for that hot cuppa freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee - pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board!
Temps are back in the teens, close to single digits is my guess. Snow is falling - more of a squall than anything else - makes the AM trek with Juneau the Wonder Husky a pleasurable experience, fer sure, fer sure!
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS!
DL at 11:21 AM yesterday: And the dialogue continues ‘tween you ‘n Pete regarding the DMUs, et al! Really a treat to "eavesdrop" on such matter - one of the few benefits of being behind the bar! Regarding commuter configurations: I've always wondered what it is about "comfort" and "commuter" that necessitates the use of seating and leg room designed more for austere school buses than rail cars.
Lars at 1:05 PM yesterday: Great having the Larsman back with us and we're envious of you and where you are this winter! Glad that you've been able to connect from the Keys! Doesn't seem to matter where one's geography is when it comes to the Forum Gremlins, eh
The Super Bowl! Double You'll have to share some inside skinny and let us "in" on how in the world this friend of yours - Phil - managed to acquire those Tix!! Then again, perhaps an Email would be better, given this isn't the place for such insights . . . We'd surely enjoy visiting with Phil now ‘n then, one doesn't have to be a rabid rail fan to enjoy this place. Your "bookend" BK comes to mind . . .
At the stage of life you're at, I'd say "go fer it!" when it comes to living where you wish and enjoying the things that go with it!
Hope we'll be seein' ya ‘round the tavern more frequently and of course, looking forward to your "Super Bowl" report . . . Go Bears! (BUT, if I were betting - it'd be on the Colts!)
Loved the DRUMHEADS!!
Pete at 7:01 PM yesterday: Jimmy Buffet is a singer who made his "claim to fame" with a song called "Margaritaville." Projects himself as a "beach bumb, hippie" kindaguy. He's a bit old for that now, but he has a following and his songs aren't bad. Remind me to "fill you in" on some insights once we get together regarding this chap. Anyway, just do a search on him and you'll find more info than you'll ever need!
Yes, indeed a pity about the St. Louis Union Station situation. Even more troubling is that the place seems to be destined for something other than what many had hoped for. I NEVER thought that the idea of an upscale ‘anything' in that particular area of town would go over well. Apparently it took a couple of decades to prove my thoughts correct. Too bad. The structure is a "one of a kind" and I'm glad that we'll be able to view it before whatever happens - happens.
James at 7:47 PM yesterday: Nice to see ya and good job of playing "catch up." Not much to make comment on other than to say I concur with your assessment of "N scale." I've never developed a liking for it either and it IS far too expensive for my tastes. Then again with the way HO is progressing . . . I'm happy that all of my major purchases are OVER when it comes to the trains and train room.
The "old" Thread has plenty of Pix of the Can-Am Trainroom and layouts. I haven't shown anything new over here that wasn't Posted there - just for your info. Speaking of the "old" Thead, I see where it is nearly at the bottom of Page 3 of the Forums. Really hated to "close" it - but it's Kalmbach's call, eh
Not to be concerned about "my other Thread" - just like to have some help over there (as Rob
Leon, I don't know. I think I just want a cup of coffee tonight. I am not hungry at all. No, you keep the change!
A different day at the office. Started some research about what kind of equipment I will need for my new tasks. Well, it doesn't belong here, I'll save that for the Rendezvous. Found some more interesting info here at the bar tonight.
CM3 – Hmm, I understand that your wife think that you look like you are in a vegetative state when you are watching TV! So she obviously did what she thought was the right thing to do. That was a good one!Tom – No, no shooting since Sunday night! Still don’t have any details. I kind of guessed that Can-Am County had some kind of rules in order to keep the morale high! Motels are being used for a lot of things I don’t even want to think about. At the same time I think it is good they are generating tax revenues so the county can afford building the new subway station! Driving the ALCAN is something I have been planning for several years! But I want to do it when I have plenty of time and don’t have to hurry all the way. I have to check the condition of the highway leading to Skagway. Sad news about Union Station and those tracks! I hope they will keep them but have a feeling it is too late. Part of Amtrak’s “trailer station building” in the picture below.
DL – I checked the website you provided the link to and I have to ask you, the number 52 shown between the front windows, is that a train number or a route number? I tried to find the answer but didn’t see anything about it. Maybe I just missed it?Two Bever Tail cars and both are still around! Yeah, that is good news!Lars – Good to see you again, Sir! Marathon sounds like a good place to be, especially this time of the year. I certainly will look for the ad for Our Place on Sunday!!! Go Bears, Go!!! Or was that the wrong team?Hope you can persuade your friend Phil to join us! I would love to hear his memories from rail travel of yesteryear. Pete – I have the attic here full of books but we are finally in the process of bying more book cases so I can unpack my books after 14 years in the attic. It's too hot there in the summertime. The streetcar pantograph in the picture was the standard model they had on all streetcars. It was pretty heavily built and they lasted forever! 312 tons (Beaver Tail Observation Car) train weight, that was pretty light.. I am sure they picked up speed rapidly after each stop!Nice picture of that DMU, Class 185! It looks pretty modern! A fork lift museum! I never heard of any fork lift museum before. I guess it is a part of the Swanwick Musuem. James – You are right, the UP train was moving along at 50-60 mph. The location was west of Palm Springs, CA. 2 years ago.The Paradise & Pacific locomotive is a real steam loco. Rob – The PCC’s in Stockholm were single ended.
So LSJ lasted for 80 years? I guess they didn’t have a chance to make it any longer. It was certainly longer than the Canadian Northern made it! Interesting story though! I have to try to make it to that map store this weekend and get a good map of Canada.
Leon my good man, I think another round of Irish coffee's is in order and maybe some of the peanuts from the barrel would be nice as well.Since it's too cold to deo much other than read I figured that I would pass on another bedtime story for the folks of Mentor !
CLASSIC STEAM #39 ONTARIO'S THIRD MAINLINE THE CANADIAN NORTHERN
Well we will tell the tale ( an abriviated version ) of the "third" national dream in Canada.The Stroy of Mackenzie and Mann and the rail empire that never quite made it.
In 1895, another chapter in Canadian railway history began. In that year the famous Canadain partners,William MacKenzie and Donald Mann bought the failing Manitoba railway , The Lake Manitoba Railway & Canal Company.And with this purchase they began assembling a network of unused charters and undervalued lines that would eventually stretch from coast to coast.The key link in this chain of railways would be the connecting link running between Ottawa and Toronto.They didn't seem bothered by the fact that two other mainlines were already destined to run east from Toronto,the 50 year old Grand Trunk and the line proposed by the CPR.
By the time the line was under construction, most of the towns along the line were well established. The GT had taken up the best station grounds close to the downtowns, and left the fledgling Canadian Northern ( CnoR ) the inferior alignments on the outskirts of the towns.The route ventured northeast from Toronto far to the north of Oshawa and Bowmanville and was unable to get a desirable run close to Lake Ontario until it reached Port Hope.from there the next amjor town was Desoronto, where the line followed closly that of the GT at times running parallell.
Between Napanee and Sydenham ( north of Kingston ) the CnoR incorporated the existing Bay of Quinte RR ( BQ ) but from there they laid their own trackage into Ottawa.From Ottawa the route continued along the south shore of the Ottawa river to Hawksbury, where it crossed into Quebec sending spearate branches to Montreal and Quebec City.
The Blind ambition of building this and the third trancontinental mainline the Grand Trunk Pacific, however lead to the CnoR's downfall.The completion of three national mainlines, and three east of Toronto wiht all the extra branches to feed them essentially duplicated each others services.With the world on the verge of a world war, this had the makings of a financial disaster. By wars end two of these lines were bankrupt. The GT Pacific and the CnoR.With the government owned Intercolonial in the maritimes not being much more healthy.
In an effort to save the bleeding red of these essential services ( for movuing goods and people and to avaoid a national financial crash ) Tjhe federal government decided to rationalize the redundant netwok of trakage that spiderwebbed it's way accross Ontario and much of the country.In this way the Federal government assumed control of the GTP, the CnoR & the Intercolinial forming the Canadian National Railways ( much to the dismay of the CPR )
Under the new CNR banner, the lines that at one point were heated rivals were now suddenly redundant.This was espeacially eveident in the extra trackage east of Toronto.The CNR did not need twwo mainlines running side by side serving the same communities etc. So the more profitable line was retained.So in 1936 the least profitable line was abandonned, MacKenzie & Mann's CnoR. The line only ran for two decades, yet track remained in place until the 1940's when the metal was torn up for the war effort. Some trackage of this eastern portion of the CnoR still remains in use today in Oshawa and Coburg, but only as stub ended industrial spurs feeding the old GT mainline.
Good evening Leon , I think a nice big Irish coffee would do quite nicely this evening.Oh and I'll leave an extra couple of bucks for a follow up round as well.Quite chilly again this evening -7 much bettre than last night fer sure fer sure ,looks like we'll get about an inch of the fluffy white stuff by morning as well.
Tom-Do not get me started on hockey tix , the cheapest for a Maple Leaf game ( assuming you can get one ) are $120 a ticket and that's for the nose bleeds at the ACC at least the teams on a tear as of late I'm thinking my inability to pull from the other thread is more likely a lack of skill on my part than anything mechanical or electrical.Nice to see a fair bit o'action heare at the bar by the ballast.Wonderfull new pic to start the month of with, I've alway's liked the Alaska RR's paint schemes !It's nice to hear that you may yet get a proper train station in St Loo,I won't press you for details cause I know your feeling's on that modern new multi-modal building they are contemplating.
I'd have to aggree with the AC rep you spoke with, terminal two will not be missed by anyone.infact if the airport authority was smart they would have a lottery for anyone wishing to push the button for the demolition, the proceeds might pay for the new building LOL.
Pete- Thanks for the fall back point, I shall use and abuse you should my forum dufficulties return.
Eric-Thanks for the shot of that streetcar, still odd for me to see pan's on city cars, poles have always been the defacto standard in NA, at least before the new resurgance of lite-rail equipment.Just wondering were the two PCC's Stockholm had double ebeded or single ended. I remember seeing that most of the Eurpoean purchased PCC's being delivered with double in ended configuration.
The LSJ was built in 1899- survived till 1979, the black yeaar for most of the light use branchlines in Ontario. Both CN and CP purged the small town railroading between 79- and '90.
LARS-No sence telling you to take it easy down there <grin> quite the score I would say.. eeny weeny bikinis and a super bowl ticket.Perhaps a cardboard cutout of a dome car placed behind your seat will allow us to zoom in on you on Sunday <grin>
James-Streetcar systems were the public transit in the day. It almost didn't matter how big or small the town or city was. Im the late 1880's to 1890's being able to boast a streetcar system of some sort was major bragging rights for cities.Everyone wanted to be "in"
DL-Still getting a nice top notch coarse on British passenger service from you, always nice to learn something new each time I log into this forum
G-day Tom and all present!
Leon- Could I have a turkey sandwich and a cup of coffee please.
Alright, things were solved and the internet works well now.
Eric- I saw those drawings and they look nice. Some really accurate measurements going on in some of those. I also liked the UP train pic you had. By the looks of it, I think the train is moving right along. Probably 75 mph. Also enjoyed a lot of the steam photo's you had posted. The last picture got me though. The UP caboose on the end of that intermodal train was really cool. That caboose was the best part though. You won't see that now-a-days.
I also noticed the Paradise & Pacific. That would be a cool model ride. I have taken rides in a few model trains before and that is one of the more realistic models. Thats cool. Does it run on steam or some other form of power?
Tom- Well, a couple pages back you had mentioned that the Via rail ride across Canada was one of your favorite rides. It sounds like a really nice ride except those few problems like land slides.
Someday, I would like to take a trip around the U.S by train. I would like to take a month off from work and just travel the U.S by train. That's my plan. Let's see how it turns out.
I might even make it to Canada. That would be great to see some of the landscape up there.
Ya, sorry about not visiting the other thread. I should, since I do post here. I will certainly try to keep on task with the other thread.
I liked the UP intermodal train you caught. A nice looking SD70 in the lead. Looks to be recently washed. I also liked the Amtrak train you caught. I don't usually see the Amtrak train in less it's one to three in the morning. Seeing one in the day is a rare sight for me. I think I have seen one Amtrak train. I saw it in Fargo, ND.
I also really enjoyed the layout pics. That is one nice looking layout. Like I say, I think you would get a long well with Fred Soup. He loves passenger trains. Thanks for sharing. Also liked the Alaskan SD70Ms. Nicely painted and ready for moving freight.
I took a good while looking over the Yukon route and all I can say is, Incredible. That is one incredible railroad. That would be a fun ride. I bet the scenery is breath taking.
Pete- I'm glad to hear that not all of the Merchant Navy's weren't scrapped. But is a pain to hear that almost all of them were. A 100 mph. That's really fast for a steam locomotive.
I'm glad you liked the siganl explanation. It can get quite complicated when it comes to crossovers and multiple track mainlines. As CM3 pointed out, it looks as if there is a signal match going on.
I some good steam pictures from you and the pictures with Tom in them. Some cool shots. I also noticed the intereting looking bus/ trolley with the tarp over it. I have seen them before but have always woundered where they come from and where they are used?
Rob- I liked the trolley pics you posted a couple of pages back. They were some of the first ways to move people around town were trains couldn't get too. They were located all over Duluth. There is also video of a trolley lift that scaled the sides of the hills here in Duluth. There really cool to see climb the hills.
I also liked the article on the Lake Simcoe Jct. railway. Was probably a nice railroad untill CN ripped it out. But I enjoyed the article none the less.
Mike- Thanks again for all the pictures you posted. The GN electrics were a really nice touch. I have not seen many pictures of the GN electrics. Thanks.
I also enjoyed the Milwaukee road FM Erie builts. Those are some of my favorite passenger locomotives. These locomotives were used specifically on the Olympian Hiawatha. The wings on the front of the locomotive have the Olympian Hiawatha spelled acroos it. They are really nice looking locomotives. Thanks for showing them.
CM3- Little joes in N scale. My word. Those little things are hardily worth the money there going to get for them. I'm sure it's about 600 dollars. Right?
A signal match ehh. Well I can certainly make a show. But I will start off getting some pictures tomorrow with some interest signals.
DL- The Class 442 is one impressive looking commuter/ passenger train. That buffet area is very nice looking. I'm sure that it is quite nice to ride on. I would like to ride it.
Lars- Well. Back from Florida. I'm sure it was sunny and nice out. Ya well it's not going to be so nice here in Duluth. By this weekend, The real winter is about to hit. Saturday, 20 below zero with a wind chill of 30 to 35 below zero. That's not so
Well I'm glad to see everything and everyone is alright and doing fine. I will catch up with your other thread tomorrow Tom.
Happy railroading
James
22 degrees this evening....supposed to have highs in the single digits over the next several days. Good weather to stay in side and watch train videos!!!
underworld
A pint of Holdens Bitter please RUTH and, of course, some Fish ‘N' Chips for later please.
JAMES Sorry you are having computer problems, hope they are over soon and you are back with us.
ROB Thanks for the kind words, Hopefully your forum and power problems are over but if you ever need to any thing posting I will be pleased to help out.
Great post to come back with, the Classic Steam #38. It seems 1979 was a bad year for CN Ontario branch lines.
ERIC I know what you mean about not enough room in a house, it was amazing though how many railway magazines the attic in my old house could hold.
Good pic of the Stockholm Streetcar. The pantograph looks very heavily built was there a particular reason for this.
About your question to DL, I have found out that the Beaver Car on the Coronation was used in the summer only. The train weighed 312 tons with the beaver car.
CM3 Enjoyed the joke, DOUG has a rival.
DL I always enjoyed the visits to Butterley although it is only a short line there is a great deal to see at Swanwick with the museums
http://www.midlandrailwaycentre.co.uk/English/swanwick.html
I think the class 124 Trans-Pennine units were mainly on the Liverpool- Manchester- Huddersfield- Leeds - Selby - Hull route. The Liverpool- Manchester -Leeds - York -Newcastle was loco hauled until the 158s took over. I think you are right about locos and coaches taking over from the 124s at least on the Manchester to Hull/ Cleethorpes duties. This looks to have happened in the mid 1980s. In '82 there was quite a few 124 and 123 units at Hull Botanical Gardens Depot .It was about this time that some more of the Brush Type 2 A1A-A1A (class 31/1) locomotives were modified to be able to produce Electric Train Heat (class 31/4) these locos took over some of the Cleethorpes duties. I must admit I am not sure of what happened on the Leeds -Hull via Selby line. It would be great to find out.
The Trans Pennine route was great for motive power with class 40s and Peaks (class 45) then class 47/4s. I believe when the Deltics were ousted from the top duties by HSTs and were shedded at York they worked some trains over the Trans Pennine route.
One of the new class 185 DMUs on a Trans-Pennine working at Huddersfield station.
I must agree I find it totally strange that good units like the 442s are being layed aside. I cannot think this would have happened before privitisation.
Many thanks for the link to the Southern 6 Pan/Pul units. I noticed that the traction motors were built in the factory I worked at, although many years before my time there.
It was good to see one of the Pullmans still survives, the car BERTHA now at the Swanage Railway, previously being at the Bluebell Railway.
LARS Great to hear from you, the bar is not the same without your afternoon visit and RUTH is not the same when you are not here Really glad you are having such a great time in Florida and the flight down there was good. Be sure to think of us, as another blast of Artic air is due to reach us this weekend.
Going to the Superbowl I will be sure to look out for the ad to Our Place, hope you have a great time.
Thanks for the kind words and thank Phil for the greetings it would be great if Phil could join us at the bar. Who is/was Jimmy Buffet
TOM I bet Juneau enjoyed the snow although we did not get the amount they thought we would.
Thanks for the kind words on the Brit trains. I do hope everyone enjoys reading about them, I sometimes worry about it, but if they are enjoyed even half as much as I enjoy reading about the North American trains, trolleys and industries etc then we are OK.
It was sad to read that link about the rails in St Louis Union Station. I think it was last year that we were there when the Union Pacific Vintage train with the F units was there, but it does look grim for the tracks now.
The West Midland day rover ticket (All buses and trains in the West Midland area) is a great and cheap way of going on a Pub Crawl.
I suppose after last year's troubles
G'day Cap'n Tom & fellow travelers at the bar!
‘Tis the Larsman reporting in from the warmth of Florida's Keys! Marathon is a great place to be, especially when the temperatures up north have been rather wickedly cold!
Ruth my deAH, you'd look even more stunning in one of the "bathing suits" observed down here! <gasp>
Must have been a fabric shortage at the factory when those were made! <grin>
Anyway, a round for the house, double treats for the critters and a LARGE jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris! Ah yes, a Lars special hero sandwich too - mustAHd, buttAH, ham ‘n Swiss along with two large pickles from the barrel. Keep the change! Oh yeah, I'll take a double hit of JD on the rocks . . .
Want to thank Cap'n Tom for the use of the 'sign in' data, but it appears I've finally made it on my own. Couldn't log in yesterday, but had full access to all the other "thrills" of the internet!
Surely have missed the happenings here at my favorite saloon and have devoted much of the morning playing catch up. Actually, there was an awful lot from the Proprietor along with some mighty fine offerings from the "new regulars," which is good to see.
Our friend, Phil, and his lovely lady have a great place down here. I didn't realize they owned two residences, but that's neither here or there, huh Point is, they have a terrific place to escape the winter's wrath and do so every year. Can't say as I blame them, for winters up in Plattsburgh are quite different from those here in the middle Keys of Florida! <grin> What a place this is!!
We are definitely thinking very seriously about relocating or if not that, using our funds from the sale and settlement of our summer place up in the mountains for the purchase of a condo here. The Mrs. doesn't want to return, EVER! She's as happy as I've seen in many a moon. Of course, reality still exists back home and I suspect she'll be making a jaunt back up there to ensure all's going well with the "hospice" left behind.
Phil has tickets for the Super Bowl. That's no joke and we'll be attending. Right now the gals are talking about sitting it out, but either way, watch for the big bald "square head" on the tube. Maybe I'll paint my "dome" with something appropriate. How about an ad for "Our" Place This will be a first for me, as I've never been to a Super Bowl. Phil takes these things in stride, but it's rather hard for me to conceal my excitement. Living like this CAN become very addictive!! Oh, yeah!
Sorry to report that trains haven't been seen or thought of as this get away has been precisely what we had hoped. The flight down was no problem. We've been pretty much kicking back and living one of the lives only dreamed of. Jimmy Buffet would envy us, although I haven't had a Margarita in years! Hard to imagine these placid and multi-colored waters can (and do) get rather "mean ‘n nasty" during ‘cane season. <grim> But right now, this is about as close to heaven on earth as anything I've experienced.
No point in my running through each ‘n every post with comments. Let me just offer my thanks to Eric for the continued presence at the late night/early morning slot - to CM3 I'm NOT Shane! for the weekday mid-morning timeframe - to DL for the noon hour (and sometimes early AM) visits - and to Pete for being so dependable and perhaps the heir apparent to the bar (at least that's MY recommendation should Cap'n Tom decide to "retire"). From what I've seen since my departure last week, you 4 have surely been the mainstays keeping "Our" Place from capsizing. A 5- salute to all!
Phil has checked out the "old" thread and in fact is still doing so. He passes his greetings to all and says that much of what he has been reading surely brings back very precious memories of his own travels. He's no stranger to passenger rail travel (or at least used to be) and has his own stories of trips between the northeast and Florida. Never a "foamer" or "railfan," simply one who enjoyed traveling by train when we had ‘em running more frequently than today. Anyway, I'm ‘working on him' to get a cyber handle and join us. He's quite content at the retired "game" and has many, many interests with using a computer for "fun" pretty much at the bottom of the list. We'll see . . .
Time for us to head for the boat. Have a mid-afternoon "date" with a bit of relaxation on the water! Ahhhhhhh.
Until the next time!
Lars
I'll have a Shipstones Bitter please.
CM3 - sounds like a ride on The Cardinal is a good way to appreciate the scenery in your area, as I said it looks fine.
Tom, yes the Class 442 (or as Pete says 5 WES) units are stylish, built to Inter City levels of comfort whereas most other trains in south east England are configured for the commuter market - which means seating is more cramped and facilities less comfortable.
Pete - well the misleading thing started with myself anyway regarding the Class 101 Buffet cars! I've nto been to the Midland Railways Centre for a while - I think they made a good decision to build a high quality large shed to store much of their stuff safely. Sun and rain are the enemy of old equipment.
Am I right in saying the Trans Pennine 124 units were replaced by locomotive hauled stock, which was unusual, before the rather uncomfortable Class 158 units were built (now themselves being replaced by better stock - but sadly built overseas)?
5 WES units would be good for the fast Brighton trains in my view, and also the limited stop Eastbourne Services I think if the car length did not interfere with platform clearances - this is the issue as they are 22m long, not 20m long which the other new cars are. I think this is because of the standard Mk 3 Body shell they use.
It is bizarre that such high quality stock goes off lease when such plainly inadequate units as the 140 rail buses are still in service (albeit the power differences mean they are not a fit swap of course, but why build new stock to replace the 5-WES rather than things that need more urgent replacement!)
Of course, the 4 BIG buffet cars replaced the 6 PAN / PUL units
http://www.semg.org.uk/gallery/6pul.html
Which had a Pullman Parlour car in the rake - so I suppose back in 1960ish this must have seemed like a significant downgrading in quality on the Brighton lines, no doubt their were some compliments at the time.
In fact one of the Modern railways details a major cut back in buffet car facilities on SR lines in about 1964 when they reduced staffing from 2 to 1 person and stopped preparing hot meals, and also did not provide the service at weekends. The article said this was to cut back on a significant trading loss being accumulated.
I did not know Trains Illustrated and Modern Railways was the same magazine! Well there you go!
Rob - good to see you in, thanks for the post, interesting stuff.
Eric - I think the LNER just built two Beaver Tail cars (both shown in the picture of them under construction you mentioned) - one for the northbound and one for the southbound run - I think they were only used in the summer season too. Pete may know. Luckily both cars survived and both cars are getting restored. Pretty good news!
Regards
A little something to read while having that 3rd cuppa Joe and maybe "just one more" from The Mentor Village Bakery case . . .
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/29F784A87C969008862572750012C9B2?OpenDocument
This should be of interest especially to those planning to attend our May Rendezvous!
As discussed here and over on the "old" Thread, St. Louis' Union Station was refrubrished and re-opened in 1985 as an "upscale Mall" WITHOUT operating trains. The developers at the time were against any such activity and wanted only to use the structure as a showcase for shops, restaurants, boutiques and the like. Over time there were a few "charter" trains that used the sidings, but as you can determine in the article, they've left. Too bad.
Amtrak is still located in a blighted area beneath Highway 40 where one risks life 'n limb to walk to 'n from at night. The station was housed in trailers from 1985 'til last year when a mainteance building was constructed and later decided to use it as the passenger station until St. Louis' Multi-Modal Station gets completed (2008 - supposedly).
So, that's the scoop, Gents . . . as the stomach turns! <grin>
Tom
A new month and a new Pix! Snow on the ground here in mid-continent USA, but only an inch. However, Juneau the Wonder Husky was in his element as we made the rounds earlier this AM! The deer were out as well, which made for an interesting "helter skelter" path for our predator! <grin>
The coffee's fresh ‘n hot - pastries at the ready from The Mentor Village Bakery - and the Menu Board shows some fine <light> ‘n <traditional> breakfasts. So, what's stoppin' ya
Yesterday's contributions made it "feel" as if this effort is indeed worth the while as we had a fine representation from the guys. We takes what we gets, ‘round here, but sure wish it could be on a more frequent basis! Thanx to all who stopped by!
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS:
Pete at 8:46 PM yesterday: Feel free to use the Rat's Patoot Room for whatever the purpose. Now that the place has been squared away, with the "chew containers" emptied, cleaned and shined, well, it's almost "nice". <grin> "Silent Mike" hasn't been seen or heard from since . . .
Appreciate the insight regarding the 120 DMU - never wuddaknown, fer sure, fer sure! Always interesting exchanges between you ‘n DL! Getting to become far more acquainted with the Brit trains than I ever thought. Great having the two of you on board!
Given a choice between "tripping around" by train to find railroad magazines OR a pub, guess which one I'd take <grin>
James at 9:35 PM yesterday: Noticed your Post over on "my other Thread" earlier in the week and wondered why you weren't here. Now we know. Appreciate the heads up and we'll be looking for your return when ‘puter issues are behind you!
Rob at 11:13 PM ‘n 11:46 PM yesterday: Figured it HAD to be something like ‘puter issues, power disruption, etc. to keep you "silent." Just like real life, eh - if it isn't one thing, it's ‘nother! <grin>
Those hockey tix are so overly priced that we've simply stopped going. We always tried to find seats in the "mid ranges" - but those now are ridiculous. Bought a pair from a friend who had season tix and they were near $100 apiece!! Ain't gonna make that mistake again. Majority of games here are also on the tube (cable mainly) and we enjoy the comfort of our Haus much more than the drive to ‘n from the arena, etc. Plus the beer "prices" are far more reasonable here.
Yeah, I had read about the Terminal 2 closure awhile back. Had a ceremony recently too, eh Anyway, my last Air Canada flight out of Pearson was when I returned from Halifax and the memorial service for my late friend a few months back. One of the flight attendants was telling me how happy they all were to FINALLY get rid of that set-up for flights to the U.S. Said she'd been putting up with it for well over 15 years and it was getting O-L-D.
Can-Am City's Public Works Dept. (CACPWD) does a creditable job at keeping things ‘ship-shape' - Schpic undt also Schpan, as Sgt. Schultz would say! (Hogan's Heroes)
Surely do NOT understand why you cannot COPY from the "old" Thread to this one. That just doesn't make sense. However, you're Classic Steam #38 is a "goodun" and in keeping with the types of submissions we've become accustomed to from our Ontario Connection!
Hopefully we'll be seeing more of you as without the new edition of the "bookends" (You ‘n Doug), this place doesn't operate quite as well.
Eric at 12:22 AM today: The return of our Resident Desert Swede! Good to see ya again and wondered if you'd been caught in one of those shoot-outs - heaven forbid!! Anyway, good observation about the tractors used for the trailers at Can-Am's Truck Terminal. No sleeper units permitted in Can-Am County and adjacent communities. Seems that the prohibition had something to do regarding allegations of illicit use and so forth. Methinks it has more to do with ensuring that the motels keep generating tax revenues than anything else. As if motels haven't been used for similar purposes! My oh my . . . .
Your idea of traveling the ALCAN highway is intriguing. It's quite the adventure and NOT for the faint of heart, fer sure, fer sure. Anyway, last time I checked, you can't get to Skagway on it. However, there is a highway leading south to Skagway, but it is (was) a rough piece of road and VERY seasonal, as are most of the highways in the 49th State.
We truly want to take that trip aboard the WP&Y, but have become so enamored with the memories from our recent trip aboard the ARR from Anchorage to Fairbanks and back that we're probably going to repeat that entire itinerary upon our return - just add a few more days for Denali.
That's a "funky" looking streetcar! <grin>
Just picked up on CM3s 8:39 AM Post: Good to see ya up 'n about the decks this AM!
Can-Am City's subway system will be entirely sub-surface. Perhaps one day, when I acquire my neighbors property, knock down a basement wall or three, to expand the layout, I'll be able to have those R17s 'n Red Birds grace the "top side." However, 'til then, it's the darkness for 'em!
Haven't seen much of the phenom Crosby since the Blues are in the West and he's in the East. Did see a bit of him at the All Star Game, but that's hardly reflective of the kid's abilities. Amazing talent, eh Wonder if the "Pens" will pack up 'n relcoate Ah yes, we shouldn't despair, after all, it IS a bus
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Temp approx. 20 degrees at the house this a.m., so the K9s were a little less reluctant to head outside. All of this is to change over the weekend, however, as it looks as if we will be encountering the coldest air of the season so far.
Rob has reappeared with comments and historical material. If I start talking abt. hockey, I'll get escorted out, especially after Boston's recent performances against the Rangers and the Sabers. We get a lot of Pittsburgh Penguins here as Pittsburgh Sports feed (Fox) is on our cable system. I do enjoy watching Crosby.
James - OMI is coming out with Little Joes in N scale - they are expensive.
Eric visited with notes and comments.
I enjoyed the virtual tour provided by the CAN-AM industrial development department. It looks as though the railroad spares no expense to provide customer service. Is the subway going to be a subway or are you going to have some elevated trackage as well?
A little something for the Super Bowl.
While watching a football game a couple weeks back, my wife and I were discussing life and death.
I told her, "Just so you know, I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle. If that ever happens, just pull the plug."
She promptly got up, unplugged the TV and threw out all my beer.
Work safe
Good morning Captain Tom and all present!!
Hello Leon, I'll have a ham sandwich again!1 Yes, sugar cured ham that is. And coffee!
I missed last night! Things had to be taken care of so tonight I have to spend some time catching up! A lot of nice pictures and interesting info!
DL – Read with interest excerpts on how to behave whne coming from the US to UK during WWII. I understand that it was harder to look out from the Beaver Tail Observation Car in the original design. But the new design is kind of strange looking. Thanks for the links showing those cars being built and in the original design. Do you know how many they built?Thanks for all the info on EMU’s and the different cars, like the Buffet Cars. I am getting more and more familiar with British trains! Mike – Found some interesting photos on the links, like from Matewan and of the Katy’s locos! Thanks!Tom – We will do our best to keep the bar open and Ruth, Leon and Boris occupied! Now I always prepare my posts using my WP. It is much safer. I hate when I have written something and all of a sudden it is gone, lost for ever. I’ll see if I can find out anything about the signals between St. Louis and KCity. You can feel safe in Phoenix, wild west or not! Seems like you are planning a pretty good subway system in Can-Am City! I am looking forward to have a closer look at Can-Am City Union Station!Very nice pictures from Can-Am City! I was surprised (was I really) to find that VIA Rail is running trains to and from Can-Am City! Hmm. I also noticed that none of tractors at the truck terminal were equipped with a sleeper! I guess the railroad has been able to take over all long distance transports! I thought that those CPR hotels are independent today. It makes sense! I am sure the same goes for CN’s hotels. I see that CN and CPR jointly operated Hotel Vancouver!First I didn’t understand your A Red Letter Day ancore. I thought, what is the big deal? CP opens to the Pacific Ocean in 1986? After a little while I realized it was 1886! I wonder what the travling time was from Ottawa to the Pacific in those days?Very interesting info on WP&Y!! Sometime after retirement I am going to drive the Alaskan Highway all the way and I obviously have to plan a sidetrip to Skagway for a ride on WP&Y! Doug – I am also supporting the Bears on Sunday! All the way!!!Pete – I wouldn’t mind having that loco from McCormick RR Park in my backyard! But I guess the backyard is not big enough. Making room for things is always a problem. The house is way too small already. CM3 – I saw the news about that gas station explosion on CNN. Nothing left! Just debris! Unbelievable! I guess they are still investigating, trying to figure out what really happened. I have made a note about the exhibition mine on a list I have over places I want to visit. James – Glad to see you back and hopefully your Internet problems will be history from now on! Rob – Good to see that you were able to make it to the bar tonight! I am glad I am not in the Toronto area now. -22° C is way tooooo cold for me. Thanks for the PCC info! I remember the newest streetcars (from the late 40’s) in Stockholm could accelerate very quickly! But they all had compressor and all that stuff. One of them is shown in the picture below. I think I have shown that picture before. Stockholm had only 2 PCC’s. Bought in the early 50’s. I’ll see if I can find a picture of them. Thanks for the history of the Lake Simcoe Jct Railway! What year did they open? I have to buy me a good map of Canada. We have a real nice map store about two miles from the house and they should have something I could use.
So Leon, I think another round of the good stuff while I attempt to bring up some new info,an attempt at least to get back into the swing of things here at the Saloon by the Siding.
CLASSIC STEAM #38 THE LAKE SIMCOE JCT RAILWAY
One of the main goals of the early railway builders in Ontario,was to tap the resorces of the Provinces hinterlands.Here was where the timber,minerals and the farmland resided. All vital to the new countries fledgling economy.The first lines were usually anchored to a lake port, and from there they wound their way inland to wherever their charter and their funding would take them.Often with many of the first lines this wasn't very far ,and many of the lines were simply built as portages.
While the Toronto & Nippissing Railway ( never even got close to lake nippissing ) was being built and wound it's way from Toronto to coboconk,it lacked a neccessary portage conection.Accordingly a feeder line was proposed from a point on the TN to Lake Simcoe,which was at that time a key transportation route for Ontario's early settlers, and lumber companies.
The Lake Simcoe Junction Railway,began ant Stouffville a booming town set amidst some of Ontario's finest farmland,and terminated at Sutton,with a spur extending to the warf at Jackson's point on Lake Simcoe.Watre tanks and a small coal facility were placed at Mount Albert,while two engine sheds were built in both Sutton and Stouffville.Eight stations and sidings were located along the line, with the buildings at Mount Albert and Sutton being built to the specs of the two stroy wood frame sattion at Stouffville. The rest were simple single stroyt buildings built in the style of the TN parent road.The station at Kirkfield still stands as does the TN station at Markham Ontario ( suburb of toronto ).
train service on the LSJ was not frequent. Two daily train mixed trains called at each station for the first three yeasr of operation,by the fourth year this was reduced to one,however by 1910 a full passeneger train was operating in each direction on the line.By 1917 this was reduced once again to just the one mixed train as the interurban rr The Toronto and York radial (TTC forerunner ) was offering daily excursions to Lake Simcoe on the faster, quieter and cleaner electric interurban cars.With this heavily patronised competition the LSJ cut train service back from Jakson's Point to Sutton ( thus not evening reaching ake Simcoe ).firhter competion arrived in 1919 in the form of the Canadian Northern's new transcontinnetal line which ran from Toronto northeast of Lake simcoe along the eastern shore of the lake. this line actually ran parallell to the LSJ,with the lines almost adjacent to each other at Mount Albert !
By 1928, the newly formed Canadian National had assumed control of both lines,and undertook a major line relocation project.They eliminated a section of the LSJ between stouffville and Zepher and moved the junction closer to Sutton to apoint along the higher quality Canadian Northern Line built between Zepher and Sutton.In 1928 thee CNR eliminated all tthe passenger runs on the remaining chunks of the LSJ, regulating it to opart time friegth only traffic.During the 30's - 50s' it was a major farm produce,livestock line feeding traffic to the CNR's eastern lines.Through the late 50's and into the 60's trains became less and less frequent with most of the produce going to trucks.1979 saw CN abandone the line , along with alot of it's other mid Ontario small yeild lines.
Good evening Leon, I think a hot toddy would be a good thing for this evening -22C at the moment.Well still in business, my latest difficulties were of the Bell Canada nature. My subdivision hasn't got burried lines yet, lets just say that the snow n ice kept me off the air these last couple of days ( daze ). On the upside Bell says that in the spring we get the upgraded burried lines and high speed internet installed. The rest of the cities been so equipped for at least 5 years, but my neighbourhood is over a 100 years old.
Any who I'm glad to see thing s still churning along, with alot of good stuff some new and some old to digest, a testiment to the few
Tom-Some very fine pics of the ole layout both today and on sunday.Nice to see the streets of CanAm are so clean and tidy Thanks for sharing the CPR and CNR hotel posts again.I aggree with you wholeheartedly,
The Fairmont prices are not for the faint if heart,but one stay I think is required in a lifetime. They are all fine fine establishments.Nice to see the White Pass story again,even better now that the line is at least partially running again. Yesterday was the final day of Terminal 2's existance in Toronto. You no longer have to deal with that gawd awfull terminal on Canada to US flights anymore. The new extention to terminal three is up and running. In the spring old number two's comming down and being replaced by an entirly new building.
Thiose prices for the Blue's games seem almost as outrages as Toronto's at least most if not all our games are televised on TV so I don't have to pay the piper as it were.I'm not sure what happened to the pics I posted on your other site. They popped up okay in my preview window,I'm thinking it was a Photobucket thing
DL-I;'m glad to see that you are still providing us with fine matreial from over home It's nice following the passenger train and equipment stories that you and Pete are so thoughtfuly providing us with.
Pete-Some fine pictures and some fine ongoing support from you sir 5x for that.I'm glad that you've been able to stick by us through these last couple trying months. Thanks for posting that PCC info for me. Hoppefully I won't have to use your services again,but it's nice to know that you were willing to forward things on for me if my access woes continued.Nice shots of your most recent train foray with the good captain as well. He wears that bar well ! <grin>
Eric-That was some nice looking live steam that you got to hitch a ride on,those large scale trains have always intrigued me.On a grand scale similar to that, the city of North Bay Ontario has put in a three and a half KM run of live steam along their waterfront,part of it's ongoing cleaning up.
You must really watch yourself in that neighbourhood of yours though, wow that's one time too many in my books,I would be moving out after one such incident. To answer your PCC question, I guess it was a matter of simplification, all electrical components made maintenance easier. No heavy compressors or any of the related airlines required. Made for lighter weight cars which was one of the selling features of the PCC in the first place. Their main claim to fame was their ability to keep up in modern traffic.Pcc's could easily beat autobiles off the line at red lights.The Toronto ones were able to get upto 60kph in 30 seconds ! The old air brake equipped heavy cars they replaced would easily take double that time. The electric brakes were also a quicker stop and you didn't have the fade like you would with an older possibly leaking air system.
Well hopefully I'll be able to keep on the right side of the forum and keep providing some input on a more regular basis.It was nice to see Mike and Doug and James pop in as well. Starting to feel a bit more like it should around here. I'm still trying to get my computer( more likely the operator ) to get some stuff pulled accross from the old forum. I still haven't been able to get that to work for me.
Leon- A coffee for me please.
I'm sorry that I have not been on in quite a while. My internet has been really, really slow. Like taking half an hour just trying to get to this page. So I have been off for some time.
This is the first time I have been able to get on so easily. Tomorrow the whole internet thing will be solved and I will beable to get backon.
But As I have just scanned over some of the articles and pictures left behind here and they all look great.
I will beable to post tomorrow much easier. Tonight is still ify.
Back down to 5 degrees tonight....can somebody send a small warm front???
Having a bad time with the puter lost what I was writing in word so I will start again, something strong please LEON. Luckily the Rat's Patoot room is all clean again so I will go in there for a while
TOM it is snowing here now and it could be up to a couple of inches by morning,
Really enjoyed the White Pass and Yukon. It was good to read of the Tuku Tram and about the 800 Mac Arthur narrow gauge locos that were built. How lucky it was when the White Pass closed in 1982 that the track and infrastructure was left intact so that it could be opened again 6 years later..
Glad you liked the pic of the 120 DMU. The passenger compartment was right behind the driver and was separated from him by a wooden partition with large windows, so you could get right behind the driver and get his view of the track ahead. The section directly behind the driver was often the 1st class area. In later years the 1st class was done away with on these units but the 1st class seats were kept, they were very comfortable.
Great to see the Can-Am it is good to see the guys at Mill Bros Lumber hard at work no doubt fortified by the good lunch at Our Place.
Thanks for the Canadian Pacific poster from 1886 when they reached the Pacific a red-letter day indeed.
DOUG Great to see you in and thanks for the beer. I hope the weather behaves itself for the Woodstock version of Groundhog Day.
Good luck to the Bears Sunday and I hope you are able to post some pics as Sunday is not the same without them.
CM3 That was indeed a terrible explosion so near to you. I looked at the video in Tom's link to the news.
Thanks for the descriptions to the link Tom provided. Showing Hawk's Nest and loco 765. That is a good web-site with the link to the Cass Scenic Railroad and those great pics of the Shays there.
DL I am afraid I have led you astray with the info on the K&WVR DMU buffet car. It was class 111 it was built by Metro-Cammell and looks, to me, exactly the same as a class 101. The only difference I can find is that the class 111 Motor cars had slightly more powerful engines made by Rolls-Royce whereas the 101s had B.U.T. engines. The Ex K&WVR car is not far from you at the Midland railway Centre at Butterley Derbyshire
http://www.railcar.co.uk/pics/Preserved/110-119/111/59575.htm
I found the pic on the same great web site you posted the Trans Pennine unit on. If you have a look at the Preserved vehicles, centre cars, Dmu page, at the bottom are the cars that have been scraped in preservation days, unfortunately it seems, as some were DMU buffet cars.
YES the Trans Pennine (Class 124) were stylish units. I can recall seeing some at Liverpool Lime Street station in the mid 1960s in their original green livery. They finished their days working on the Manchester to Hull or Cleethorpes via Sheffield run, where the Trans Pennine cars were mixed with the Swindon built class 123 Intercity units. The 123 units had a corridor connection on the front.
The Dmus no doubt saved some branch lines from closure although being a steam buff we were sad to see them replace steam. Most of them were a good buy for BR as some like the 101s gave almost 50 years service. To my mind the Pacer units (Classes 140 etc) which replaced them were nowhere near as good, although the Sprinters (Classes 150etc) are not bad.
Great link to the Southern Emus and your experience of the buffets, I never knew IG was the code for Brighton. I always enjoyed traveling in the Southern Emus they somehow seemed to have character, something I find sadly lacking in the new units.
I did not know that the 442s or 5WES as the old code was, (WES for Wessex I believe,) have been withdrawn by South West Trains. I though some had just been refurbished. They would be great units for the FAST Brighton services although with only two doors per side on each car it could cause a problem loading and unloading at busy times if they were used on services with many stops. I have ridden them a few times and quite like them. I believe that they are the last cars owned by BR that still have compartments, as in the pic of the first class compartment.
Trains Illustrated changed its name to Modern Railways in about 1962. There has been the odd magazine that has used the Trains Illustrated name but not for a while now, I think. It was published by Ian Allan who publishes railway books and used to publish the Locospotters ABCs, which the ones from the 50s, if unmarked, are worth a fortune. especially the Combine Volumes.
Talking of Ian Allan they have a bookshop in Birmingham near the station, which sometimes had Classic Trains. I got Classic Trains on one of my early visits here in Kansas City, about 2002; I usually picked up a copy while over here. When I was in England it was a good excuse to get a West Midlands Day Tripper ticket and travel around the Birmingham area on a Saturday afternoon by train to pick up a copy. I once found a copy of Classic Trains in Walsall, it was funny though, that I always seemed to end up in the Great Western pub in Wolverhampton.
Well Tom, late again with my post so I had better get a round in LEON.
siberianmo Nice pics!
Well, it's a sultry 16 degrees, up from a cool 6 earlier today. Why are the weathermen right now???
OPTIONAL Toy 'n Model Trains Day!
Some Pix from the Can-Am HO layout . . . .
Mills Bros. Lumber Yard
Truck Terminal
Truck 'n Rail Center
Can-Am City Main Street
Can-AM City VIA Rail HQ
Can-Am City Bus Depot
Enjoy!
The noon hour and it's lunch time here at the Bar by the Ballast! Good crowd this afternoon, as the boys from the Mills Bros. Lumber Yard (just down the gravel road) have taken a liking to this place at lunch time. Anyway, our sandwich specials are listed on the Menu Board, so place your order . . . . Ruth, take your break now, I'll handle things 'til you get back.
What a difference a day makes with some "day light" Postings from DL 'n CM3!
DL at 11:22 AM today: Quite an epistle from our 'cross the pond representative! Covered quite a bit in that one. Some super fine links and one can easily spend an hour browsing here 'n there. The DMUs show up well and I particularly liked the design of the 442 unit with that "wrap around" window on either side of the cab. Looks "cool"!
All of those hotels in the CPR 'n CNR livery (of old) are in the expensive category to say the least. However, that aside, just to stay in one or more of 'em has been a treat. Wouldn't make a habit of it if on a limited budget, but for a special occasion, what the heck . . . !
I too received my introduction to Classic Trains as a gift back when the 50th Anniversary of CPRs "The Canadian" was featured. My bride "sensed" that there was something 'special' about that magazine and she set me up for a long-term subscription. And this at a time when I was griping and grimmacing about the Model Railroader mags pretty much piling up. Was gong to drop the latter - but didn't. The Can-Am Trainroom now has a couple of shelves containing a few zillion copies of 'em.
Wolfman Pete has decided to "add' to my collection of RR mags with "deposits" of his Brit versions (Steam Railway & Rail) and Kalmbach's Trains. Anyone coming to the Rendezvous needs to take along an empty suit case for the surplus mags that will be available!
CM3 at 11:55 AM today: Just read about the explosion at Ghent, WVA. Certainly never a good situation and the article is rather sobering. Here's the URL for those interested:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/30/gas.station.blast/index.html
Surely would like to view the Hawk's Nest but even moreso, travel the route by Amtrak. Domes would be a natural, eh Superliner Sightseer lounge cars would do just fine as well!
Appreciate the quarters for Herr Wurlitzter via the Coal Scuttle and of course the round! With a house full, this is gonna cost ya! Of course, with that Fed overtime pay . . . <grin>
We're expecting about an inch of "fluffy partly cloudy" before the 'morrow with more to come at the end of the week. Still waiting for that REAL winter snow we haven't had for sooooooo long. <geesh> My first winter in these parts was 1977-78 and that was an eye opener. We had just relocated from southern Virginia (Tidewater) and the kids were in heaven once they experienced snow (again). After 5 years of hardly any winter at all, they picked up right where we left off in New England (8 years worth). Loved the winters . . . .
Thanx for supplementing those Pix I provided via the URL with your descriptions. Makes 'em complete, fer sure, fer sure!
Appears as if the St. Louis Blues (NHL) blew their slim hopes of reaching the playoffs. Instead of being 6 points away from the 8th "seed," they are now 10. Didn't look very spirited for 2 of the 3 periods and my guess is the attendance will show the disapproval in games to come. This is definitely a baseball town. Although I've been to many a Blues game where the joint was rockin' and all the seats were full (20 thousand). These days they are lucky to draw 16k; last night they had 10k. There's a demand for the expendable dollar - especially with the gambling casinos in town. It costs an easy $100 just to get seats for two for a game, and those aren't in the lower level! Add a few snacks, beverages, program 'n parking and you're easily in the $200 range. Just for ONE game. Yeah, right.
Catch y'all later (maybe)!
Good Afternoon Barkeep and All Preset, coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. I apologize for not posting yesterday, but we have had BIG TIME server problems such as pages taking 15 minutes to load, etc. I would have done better with dial up smoke signals. Anyway, it seems to be doing a little better today. Weather was 4 to 5 degrees this a.m. with about 2 inches of flufffy "partly cloudy." I guess we are going to get clocked tomorrow. As always we are in the news, this time with a gas station explosion approx 5 miles from where I sit at the moment. A real bad one - you have probably seen it on CNN.
I have enjoyed reading through posts, exploring links, etc.
Pete sent us some wide-ranging comments.
Mike's epictures of Matewan show the brick buildings I mentioned in my previous posts. I havea pcture in my stack of stuff which shows a bullet hole through the front window of the local bank - a resuly of the gunplay in town.
I agree with our 'steamed proprietor re CUT. We used to ride the L&Ns "Pan American" to Cinci. from Nashville. Then take the N&Ws "Pocahontas" from there to Roanoke. They had a good deal where, for a mimumum amount of $ you could get a roomette and breakfast the next morning. The train also had a former Wabash dome which was a nice post for viewing the scenery along the Pokey. Then get on a joitn N&W/SOU train (IIRC, remains of old Tennessean at least on the schedule) which operated from Bristol to Washington, DC. heavyweight copaches which rode like Pullmans. There were many options available to the traveler upon arrival in DC, of course. I didn't mean to get off on that tangent.
DL - Yes to your question about location. In fact I have a nice view of rolling hills, etc. out my living room window. Thanks to our 'steamed proprietor for the NKP material. The first shot (the one with the Union 76 sign) was taken in the Kanawha Valley. The second was at Deepwater, WV. IIRC, I talked about Deepwater not too long ago. The thrid shot was made at Mongomery, WV; a college town just a little east of Charleston. The picture from the vestibule was taken along New River. The river is out of sight beyond the trees on the right hand side of the picture. If you look carefully you can see where the second mainline was being removed; the ties and rail were there but the rail was abviously awaiting pickup. C&O did theis to save $, but when I moved down eher yrs ago, the second track was still in place and used. The overhead shot was made at the Hawks Nest overlook. The C&O mainline was (and still is) on both sides of the river. The train is on the north side, if you look REAL hard you can barely see the other min line on the south side of the river. BTW, you can ride over and through all of this on Amtrak's "Cardinal." The train runs in the daylight eastboiund at all seasons, but you get a daylight ride westbound pretty much only in the summer and fall.
Also thanks for CN, CP, and WP&Y material. I did dine at the Royal York when in Toronto, but stayed at the Harbpor Castle (better deal with an Aior Canada tie in from Boston).
Almost fogot to mention to Eric - the exhibition mine is getting renovated - it'll be better than ever when they get doen. Otherwise, everything else is up and running.
work safe
I'll have pint of Shipstones Mild please.
I thought you'd like the US serviceman's publication. It must have been considered worthwhile because they produced one for English speaking allied forces on conduct in France after the D-Day landings I believe.
I enjoyed the CPR / CNR hotel list - I've had a look round the Royal York, The Queen Elizabeth, The Nova Scotian, Chateau Frontenac and Le Manoir Richelieu, never stayed in any of them though!
If I get a chance to stay in a hotel I like to try the former British Transport Hotels here in the UK, they were owned by the railways until about 1981 when the government privatised them, and in fact sold them at a giveaway price to various hotel chains, some who sold them on pretty quickly at a big profit because their city centre locations were prime real estate. The Queens Hotel at Leeds City Station is nice, but sadly the Lochalsh Hotel overlooking the Isle of Skye in one of the best locations in Scotland has been allowed to become a shadow of its former self.
I'm sure a UK trip any time can slot in a decent preserved railway steam run - there are plenty to choose from. Some can cunningly (and conveniently) be combined with other tourist activity for those with less rail minded interests!
Doug - nice to see you!
Pete - I reckon that warm beer explanation is highly apocryphal!
I think you are correct about the DMU Buffet car on the GCR - I checked the railcar website and it lists the only Cl 120 car preserved as a buffet on the GCR - too co-incidental to be anything else. I never rode in one, they having left Derby before I got to this area in the late 1980s. Interestingly the site does not list any Class 101 buffets preserved, so that one you rode in at KWVR back in '76 is probably no longer with us. I wonder if it was asbestos lined and they just decided to scrap it. Shame as there are no 101 buffet cars left now, yet plenty of 101s in preservation as the lease companies gave the last ones all away to preserved lines when they finally withdrew them I think.
In fact being from the south I grew up very much in electric territory and the only DMUs were the DEMUs of the SR which were a different beast (the only really comfortable ones being the Hastings Line units built with narrow bodies and ‘main line' style seating - all the others being high density suburban seating for some reason). If as a family we travelled north of London in the 1970s (which was rare) we would have been on Inter City trains. So when I first started encountering the Deisel Mechanical Units - which by then were often a good 15 to 20 years old - they seemed very much like a 2nd class product - with their distinctive rattling idle and noise of the engine changing gear like a bus, not to mention strong small of diesel fumes - that was all new to me. Of course I came to learn to be interested in them, but looking back it perhaps shows how I had an early lesson in how outside the south east of England rail investment is often very lacking. I suppose back in the early 1960s they were a step change from the steam trains for many ordinary passengers (the info on the 120s showed they made a rapid acceleration of services on the Inverness Aberdeen route in 1960 ish).
One design I always thought was very stylish was the Trans Pennine Units with the wrap round front windows - never saw one in real life though and all got scrapped - sad. Class 124 as shown here for others following this:
http://www.railcar.co.uk/his120-129/124intro.htm
SR Buffet Cars
You mentioned SR buffet cars - you mean the 4-BIG and 4-BEP (for the Kent area) using SR classification system (4-BIG being a 4-CIG with a Buffet, IG being the LBSCR telegraphic code for Brighton!)
As seen here
http://www.semg.org.uk/gallery/class421_01.html
I really liked the 4-BIGs as we used the Brighton line regularly (and I often would even go to School on a 4-Big or 4 CIG most days - if we were unlucky we'd get a 4 VEP - much less comfy). If I was with my mother as a small child she would often take me to the Buffet car for a snack and you could sit in the loose chairs etc which was a treat. If it was going south from London at the end of the day there would often be a few commuters having a drink and a smoke on the way home from work - so it was like a pub to some extent - as a child such an atmosphere was pretty much forbidden territory, a very adult world at any rate - which made it seem all the more exotic to me! Of course now it is rare to find a pub which won't let children in (more's the pity!)
Sadly, immediately after privatisation the private operator scrapped the buffet cars and run the services with them shut up, then as soon as they could, removed the cars completely - they were never interested in providing a proper buffet car for people to go and eat and drink in (something that I thought Amtrak and Via would find unacceptable until I sampled Ren stock on The Corridor where second class food service was trolley only - ugghh) - As you say the new SR EMU units (Electrostars) have no buffet cars.
HOWEVER - I think the Class 442 EMUs built in the 1980s for the Bournemouth / Weymouth line did / do have buffet cars - they use the Mk3 body shell I think. However, I've never ridden one of these and in a complete shock to me have just learned that South West Trains have withdrawn them all earlier this month! They are in sidings out of use! However, there was speculation in Rail Magazine that Southern might lease them - so could this mean a return of buffet cars to the Brighton Line - I hope so!
Here is one
http://www.semg.org.uk/gallery/class442_1.html
And these interior pics show the buffet area:
http://www.semg.org.uk/gallery/class442_6.html
I had a good trip in an LNER teak coach some years ago - it was a very hot summer day and I went for a trip out on my birthday to the Severn Valley line - nicely restored. The line was not too busy that day so I recall us having the whole coach to ourselves. They look the piece in varnished teak!
I've never seen Classic Trains in the UK for sale, but I bought one at the station bookstall in Denver before getting on the C-Zephyr and enjoyed it. A relative in Canada suggested a subscription as a gift for me, which I gratefully accepted.
Does Trains Illustrated still exist? - 3 of the early 60s mags a pal loaned me are Trains Illustrated and I enjoyed reading them as I mentioned before (others being Modern Railways). Give a real insight into the issues of the day - I suppose it is like reading any original historical ‘source material' as our academic friends would say.
Sorry - long post here - I've diverted off onto a number of things Pete has made me think of - trust this is not too tedious for others!
PS Tom - I enjoyed the White Pass info too! I'm going to look up their schedule in my Thomas Cook world wide timetable.
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