G-day Tom and all present!
Good morning to all this fine morning. Or cold morning.
Ruth- Good to see you. I haven't seen you for sometime. Anyway, could I get and Oj this morning please. Thanks.
Well, I dropped by to drop off an interesting article.
Of course it'se the Milwaukee road, but it's about the bankruptcy.
The alders now grow tall where the Milwaukee Road once ran, electrified, to Puget Sound. Has it really been 20 years since engineer Don Grigsby pulled the last train out of Tacoma in the darkness of March 15 1980? The alders don't lie, but my God! Twenty years? The cold, hard truth in a box of black and white negatives makes the final days of the Milwaukee Road seem even more distant than that, roll after roll of black and white film carefully sorted and preserved. On small rectangles of celluloid come back memories of wonderful days spent hanging out in depots and roundhouses, cutting classes at school to spend the afternoon walking along the Milwaukee mainline high in the Cascade, and of weekends spent crazily chasing trains over the Saddle Mountains in a hand-me-down 1975 silver Monte Carlo two-door, the 8-track tape deck blasting out Journey, VanHalen, and Kansas. In January 1978, the nation's number one pop song was the hauntingly beautiful "Dust in the Wind," which appeared at the same moment the Milwaukee Road declared bankruptcy. Its sparse acoustics and plaintive lyrics perfectly captured the futility of having something you care about slip through your fingers, out of reach for good. It seemed apropos to the Milwaukee Road at the time; the years haven't dimmed its ability to tug at the heart.
The Milwaukee Road's Puget Sound extension was a railroad that probably should never have been built. It was one railroad too far, one railroad too many. But the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul's management faced few other options after the Northern Pacific and Great Northern (the "Hill Lines") jointly purchased the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy in 1901, effectively neutralizing the Milwaukee's gateway at the Twin Cities, on which it relied on for much of its traffic. It was either acquiesce to Hill and become another "second-tier" granger railroad, or take the bold step and build to the coast. It chose the latter, and the decision helped drive the railroad into bankruptcy three times, 1925, 1935, and, finally, 1977.
Never able to compete with the Hill lines for traffic or interchange, the 1970 Burlington Northern merger was supposed to guarantee the viability of the Milwaukee Road---never before had a railroad merger's approval hinged on ensuring the competition's survival. Twelve previously closed interchange gateways were opened, the additional traffic supposed to keep the railroad viable. The traffic never materialized in sufficient volume to do so, because, some argue, BN undermined the very agreements that allowed its merger to take place. The Milwaukee begged inclusion in the BN to the ICC in 1975, a request denied two years later; nine months after that, the Milwaukee Road declared its final bankruptcy. Having lost $82 million in 1978 and $64 million in the first six months of 1979, the Milwaukee Road's trustee applied to the Interstate Commerce Commission to abandon 2497.7 miles of railroad west of Miles City, Montana on August 9, 1979. An employee plan to purchase the Puget Sound extension was deemed financially unrealistic by the ICC and rejected, clearing the way for abandonment approval on January 30, 1980. A little less than a month later, bankruptcy court judge Thomas McMillan authorized embargo of the transcontinental lines. Though we hoped somehow, some way the railroad could be saved, deep in our hearts we knew it wouldn't be.
Largely ignored after its electrification era, the Puget Sound Extension's mythic status grows each passing year. There's now a generation of northwesterners whose memories don't include big orange GE's treading down Hauser Way in Renton, or viewing strings of container flats and autoracks wrap around Windy Point high above I-90 near Bandera. And their memories don't include perhaps the best memories of all: Milwaukee Road's dedicated employees, the glue that held this railroad together when it was disintegrating under mismanagement and disinterest--the proudest group of railroaders I've ever met, certainly the most optimistic. But pride didn't pay the bills, and I can't help but wonder where they all are today.
I have a map to go along with it. Pudget Sound is the Coast division of the Milwuakee Road. From Seatle to Tekon, Washington. 220 miles of electrified line.
This is the MAp.
http://www.montanarailroadhistory.info/1918-MT-Map-Milw.jpg
Article and picture from: http://www.wwvrailway.com/milwauke.htm
Enjoy!
Happy railroading
James
Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/
Wednesday's Witticism
Having a jealous wife means if you come home with a hair on your coat, you better have the horse to match.
G'day Gents!
Mid-week in mid-continent USA where petrol prices are now at $2.40 (rounded) - up quite a bit since last "report." Temps are back into the 20s during the mornings with warm-ups into the low 50s during the afternoons. Not bad as spring makes its way to us.
Coming up: March 12th is the 23rd Month Anniversary for "Our" Place and March 17th is St. Patrick's Day! We'll have our "traditional" wearin' o' the green ‘round here along with Irish brew, corned beef ‘n cabbage, etc. Watch for it AND our annual listing of Irish beers!
Today is our OPTIONAL Toy ‘n Model Trains Day! for anyone so inclined . . .
Next Tuesday we will resume our "Theme for the Day!" with the Milwaukee Road featured. CMSTPP James will "kick it off" so be sure to hold off ‘til you see whatever it is he decides to come up with. He has the OPTION to begin it on Monday NIGHT if Tuesday morning is difficult for him.
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS:
Lars at 12:23 PM yesterday: Always enjoy those "merchie" posters. While we've never met in person, they somehow reflect what my image is of you. Perhaps at the Rendezvous!
Thanx for covering the QUIZ results, saved me the "work"!! <grin> Watch for Part V or a resemblance . . .
Please don't put too much concern into the afternoon "slot" - things will work out. I just like to see the activity spread out so as to keep us "up on the Forum Page! You've been a great help and should mornings be your time, that will be fine too. Thanx!
Appreciate the Email - thanx!
CM3 at 2:04 PM yesterday: Afternoons "work" for us, just as long as you make it in!
Nice rundown on those ACL E7s . . . hard to believe that the mid-1940s witnessed their arrival!
Quarters 'n round much appreciated! <KaChing - KaChing>
Pete at 3:34 PM yesterday: Fresh from his sickbed, the Wolfman has returned! Next time you decide to imbibe "out," make sure you wash it down with PROPER BREW that will "kill" all germs, viruses and the like!
Glad you're up ‘n about and sorry to learn of your situation. Even with one day away, you were MISSED!
Thanx for the Email and willingness to assume the mid to late afternoon "slot" for the Larsman!
Regarding your friend, Alan - you may want to let him know that should he join us, he'll be "eligible" for our Birthday Watch List!
Suspended railways, no matter where located, are interesting concepts. Somehow just doesn't "fit"the image of steel wheels on steel tracks, eh
Appreciate the links!
I'm ALWAYS in awe of those who can miniaturize to the degree shown in that Rhyl link. <double>
Here's the "deal" for REVEILLE in Halifax: Up ‘n at ‘em at ‘em ‘n ready for breakfast at the change of the watch - 8 bells, or you're gonna be missing out! <grin>
Truly amazing similarity between Eric's rail shot from Sweden and mine from Canada.
Perhaps one day, you'll be able to explain how you, or anyone, could confuse CINDY with Mountain Man Mike! <good grief!>
Mike at 7:33 PM yesterday: "Silent Mike" and URLs!
Will get to ‘em later on . . . thanx!
James at 9:10 PM yesterday: "Catch up" continues and is going very well!
Good news regarding the Tuesday "theme" - just try to do your initial Post on Monday night so that we don't get everyone "started" too soon. Looking forward to it . . . Thanx!
There will be more QUIZ and CONTEST opportunities . . . no problem-O! <grin>
Very nice inclusive Post!
Eric at 12:16 AM today: "Bisbee mystery" solved! Good work - Inspector Clueless 'n Mr. Doyle can use your services!
I love it - BK is GUILTY by virtue of SIMILAR THOUGHT! Now there's something for the ACLU to check out! <grin>
When it came to figuring out how to come up with the "grades" for the QUIZ, it seemed that the only way to do it was to require all previous parts to be "passed" in order to attain the "title" for the highest level achieved. Senior NOVICE, eh Hmmmmmmm.
Interesting about moving that great right-of-way to Canada. Having something like that in the middle of Hudson Bay kinda reminds me of the movie, Polar Express. They had no problems with running track over ice and the like!
Sorry to cut this a bit short, but I've got places to go ‘n people to see this AM . . .
Enjoy the day!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til clo
Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
I'll have my ham sandwich tonight. On rye. Thank you, Leon!
Weatherwise a nice day here in the desert today, 80°F. I listened to an engineer who really used the horn on his locomotive tonight. SF are running along Grand Avenue and there are grade crossings all over and one is supposed to use the horn a lot and this guy did!
Doug – Sorry about the not so correct info on the X2000 in your book. I have seen much worse though, so don’t worry. Keep the book! I have it myself. In some books they claim that the X2000 had problems with the tilting system in the beginning, that it sometimes would tilt the wrong way when the train was running. To my knowledge that has never happened. I have also read that it was not reliable the first years. Completely false, it was extremely reliable, had 99.8 % availability. Very interesting story about SP! Bad reputation (?) but did a lot of good things! Sunset Limited, not just a train but a book that I would like to have. Tom – I did some research about SP, Sunset Limited and Bisbee. I found that SP had a line south of today’s line between El Paso and Benson, AZ. That line followed run closer to the Mexican border and Sunsert Limited stopped in Douglas, AZ and then in Bisbee Junction, where a bus took passengers to and from Bisbee. On the link below there is a timetable for Sunset Limited from 1957.http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/sunset195705.htmlI just checked the link you provided and there was basically the same info! I should have checked that first and saved myself a lot of time! I have to drive down to Bisbee Junction and Douglas and see what is left (if anything).If you thought the same thing when BK referred to his “theatrical” DVD our thoughts must be true!!?!ACL, had some nice looking locomotives! Thanks for the info!SP, City of San Francisco! A train I don’t know much about. To bad one can’t send for those folders today! I read about the stranded City of San Francisco though, a few years ago! Lars – You know, someone has to be at the bottom! Novice! It could have been much worse! I guess I could call me Senior Novice since I passed the other parts of the Quizz. Nice posters! It must have been a tough job to be a “merchie” during WW II. CM3 – Coal stations, I remember I saw a good size coal station in New Haven, CT. I guess it belonged to New Haven. Thanks for the info on ACL’s locos and C&O coal stations!Pete – What happened to you doesn’t sound fun at all and it isn't. Same thing happened to me when I was on vacation in Italy 1986. More or less knocked me out for a few days. You better stick to Our Place and Cracker Barrel in the future!!It was the similarity between Tom’s and my pictures that made me post mine. I guess it is not so strange. If one move the position for my picture in Sweden to the same latitude in Canada it would be in the middle of Hudson Bay! Mike – Nice pictures, especially the one of SP 4449! Thanks!James – You are doing a good job catching up! It certainly takes a lot of time. I saw on the weather map that you still have very cold weather in your neighborhood! Stay inside!
Eric
Leon- Could I get a coffee with a beef sandwich please. Thanks
Ok, I am now on page 26 for acknowledgements. I am almost finished. So here goes.
BK- I really liked all the pictures of the Southern Steam locomotives. I especially liked the first one. That one is located at the IRM isn't it? But a beautiful steam locomotive none the less. Perfect for around here.
Pete- I saw the links on the Dudley Canal. I am impressed. That is a really small, really long tunnel. I can't imagine the work that went into building that tunnel.
Cold.. Here in Duluth? No. It's never cold. Anyway, thanks for the heads up. Oh and I must say that I do agree with Eric also. There are still some very nice stations out there. I still see some in Fargo, ND and also here in Duluth. But many have disappeared. That's a shame.
Tom- Nice little article on the Frisco fallen flags. The pictures are also a nice addition. Love the E-units. The Atlantic Coast line was also a good addition to the fallen flags. They had some really colorful E-units. I really like them. Thanks. Oh and BTW, I'm sorry I missed the quiz. I would have tried my best but I was a bit "snowed" in. But it looked like fun.
I also got a look at your Passenger Nostalgia #18. MMMM... Bud cars. What more could you want..well.. I would also like a Super Dome, but that's another story. But some good stuff. Also enjoyed the selection of Via rail pictures. Another one of those nice looking Domeitory cars. Thanks for all the pictures.
Ah and something that caught my eye. I see you found some pictures of Canadian National, former Milwaukee road Skytop lounge and Super Dome. Very Nice find. I have seen pictures of the Super Dome in the CN colors, but never the Skytop Lounge. The first time I have seen it in those colors. Thanks for the photos.
Oh and I will be there for next Tuesdays theme. I definitely won't be missing out on that. I will probably post the first portion on Monday and then the second portion in the afternoon on Tuesday. Thanks.
Eric- Nice picture of the Boston, South Station platform. I'm sure a lot of trains come out of there. Nice picture of the Class S-2 Southern Pacific steam locomotive. Someone did a nice job restoring it. Also, interesting to hear that the tilting mechanism is used for passenger comfort. I thought it would reduce the stress on curves but I guess the super elevated curves do the trick. Thanks for the info.
Doug- Nice article on the Penn state coal. Some interesting things were happening then. It was interesting to read that trucks were doing a lot of the coal hauling instead of the railroads. But it makes sense. Trucks could take the coal anywhere, trains could only go where the rails were. Thanks.
Also really liked the Southern Pacific article. They were quite a basis for modern railroading at it's best. Thanks for that. Oh and BTW, Obviously the neighbor wasn't too happy with something!
Mike- Nice selection of pictures from you. I really enjoyed looking at the Notre Dame and Western railway. What a cool little operation they had going on there. I'm surprised the track is still in place. I also liked the Chicago and North Western E7As you had posted. Nice pictures. Some War posters and pictures from you. Nice pics, Thanks for sharing.
Lars- I see you have popped up with some WW2 posters. Liked the posters. Keep them coming.
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #22
Initially Posted on Page 158 of the original Thread
Here's something to enjoy regarding the Southern Pacific (SP) from a 1951 advertisement in my personal collection.
Did you hear what the ‘49er said about the
"City of San Francisco" "WHAT A TRAIN, PARDNER! SHE'S THE FASTEST THING ON WHEELS BETWEEN CHICAGO AND THE GOLDEN GATE! ANOTHER OF SP'S WONDERFUL WAYS WEST!" Did you know that you can board a modern streamliner in Chicago and travedl at your ease the same route the ‘49ers struggled over in the Gold Rush? Well, you can. In the crack extra-fare "City of San Francisco" for instance, or the "Overland" that shows you California's lovely High Sierra by day. Until you've done this you've never really seen the West. We've just issued a new folder we're rather proud of, "Planning Your Overland Route Trip." Tells you all about accommodations on these great "name trains" (finest Pullman; economical Chair Car). By the way, at San Francisco these streamliners connect with our famous "Lark," "Daylight" and "Starlight" south to Los Angeles, thence with other great S.P. streamliners eastward. Or with the new "Cascade" and "Shasta Daylight" northward, right past gorgeous 14,161 foot Mt. Shasta to the lovely Pacific Northwest. Mail that coupon today for free folders. "CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO" Chicago-San Francisco via Omaha, Ogden, Great Salt Lake, Reno, Oakland. 40 ½ hours westbound via CNW-UP-SP.
SP AMERICA'S MOST MODERN TRAINS
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
City of San Francisco drumheads
Train #101, City of San Francisco; 15 cars. Photographed: near Cheyenne, Wyo., December 4, 1948. (Denver Public Library - Fair Use/www.wikipeida.com)
A Real RR Adventure!
A link worth reading:
http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=a&id=40
Enjoy! Tom
Remember Dec. 7th
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20021p/ww20021p.jpg
War Traffic Must Come First
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20037p/ww20037p.jpg
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20056p/ww20056p.jpg
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20041p/ww20041p.jpg
Save Waste Fats For Explosives
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20008p/ww20008p.jpg
Strong in the Strength of the Lord
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20185p/ww20185p.jpg
This Is The Enemy
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20014p/ww20014p.jpg
Together
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20276p/ww20276p.jpg
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20034p/ww20034p.jpg
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20183p/ww20183p.jpg
Library of Congress
Jack Delano
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3c20000/3c20000/3c20900/3c20966v.jpg
Daylight book cover
http://www.bookmine.com/images/60357.jpg
SP #1 CP Huntington
http://content.lib.washington.edu/transportation/image/49.jpg
Alco and Mt. Shasta
http://content.lib.washington.edu/transportation/image/147.jpg
PA1 Los Angeles 1953
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/004_restore_2.jpg.96900.jpg
4-8-4 San Francisco 1958
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/s/SP4460missionbay950.jpg.45403.jpg
F7 San Jose 1965
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/s/SP_6235_newhall_yards_June_1965RP.jpg.47063.jpg
FP7 Martinez, CA 1971
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/p/P_6459_at_Martinez_42571_Truckee_LTDRP.jpg.89805.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/4/4449columbiacliffsbig.jpg.69110.jpg
Hi Tom and all.
A great Saturday and Monday at the bar. Something very light please RUTH as I had a real bad bout of Food poisoning or something starting early Sunday morning and pretty much wiping me out still not right and don't fancy food still but a lot better than yesterday. We ate out and luckily the bride had something different and was OK. I know I should have stuck to the food at Our Place.
What a great and pleasant surprise to see the post from West Coast Dave. May I add to what as been already said and say I am looking forward to June and please keep safe.
MIKE Thanks for links Great color photo of the B&O #6190 I wonder what was the purpose of the oil barrels on the platform.
I enjoyed the link to Julius Caesar; he seemed to have bad luck with the English weather.
Great pics of Shakespeare Tunnel. That is a handsome SE&CR loco one of her sisters survives and is in the National Railway Museum at York.
Great posts from DOUG. Glad the builders have arrived to fix your basement.
Those Jack Delano color shots are marvelous especially as they are over 60 years old now he must have had a very good camera those portrait shots are so clear.
Thanks for the X2000 info and pics. It seems the book reviewer was not too impressed with the first book on the SP passenger trains, but gave the second book reviewed a much better recommendation
I will send the Southern star signs to Alan and ask which sign he is. I think his birthday is coming up soon. I have some more pics of his German trip.
JAMES Thanks for the kind words on the photos. I saw on the weather that there was some very cold temperatures forecast for Duluth, so keep in the warm if you can.
Thanks for the great color pics the Santa Fe livery on the PA 1s seem to make the locos look more powerful and the B&O EM1 is a impressive engine
Many thanks for the interesting history of ALCO RSC-2 #988. It is good the loco was saved and in a museum.
I must agree with Eric there are some great railroad stations still left in the U.S. like Chicago's Union Station and although not used just for trains any more Kansas City Union Station is a wonderful building.
ERIC. I am not certain but I think that the main line steam in China as about finished. The only steam is being used at industrial locations, although I believe some of those sites have quite a bit of track and fairly long lines connecting them to the rail system.
Thanks for the photos; that one from the cab from Sweden does look remarkably similar to one Tom took in Canada.
SP 5021 IS a beautiful locomotive
LARS. It is only recently that Alan has been going to Europe to visit and travel on the railways there, although he has been going to Ireland for the steam trips for many years now. There are very few lines in the UK, both passenger and freight only that Alan has not traveled on.
Great SP material BK,TOM, DOUG and yourself have posted as a tribute to DAVE. The Visalia Electric Railroad looks an interesting line, no doubt when Dave gets back he will have some info on it.
Sorry about leaving you the chandelling duties the last day or so, hopefully I shall be back to normal now.
Thanks for the Merchie Posters; I know the people of Britain owe them a great debt for their bravery during the dark days of WWII.
BK Thanks for the kind words and may I agree with what you said about ROB.
Congratulation to LYDIA and you on the Journeyman in the Quiz, I see Tom is going to do a part 5
DL Great to see you back in the bar. Hope you are soon able to catch up as there as been a lot of fine posts at the bar
Eric posted a link to the suspended railway in Wuppertal, which I have posted below; it is very informative and contains an almost unbelievable piece about Tuffi the elephant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwebebahn_Wuppertal#_note-12
Yes those Bassett Lowke models were works of art. I have a link showing a Bassett Lowke loco at Rhyl in the early days of the railway.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~stownsen/rhyl/rhylhist.htm
I have seen some of the Bassett Lowke models of ships in the museum in Liverpool and am looking forward to seeing the ones in Halifax.No doubt TOM will make sure I see them
Many thanks for the links.
I shall look forward to your reports of the trips you have been on.
CM3 Thanks for the answers on the locomotive naming it would be good to see the names on the B&M engines.
I had a look at the C&O historical website, as you say, there is some great photos there, and a site well worth returning to. Those are very interesting works photos of the M1 steam-electric turbine during its building.
That was indeed an interesting article and pictures on the B&O Big Sixes in Classic Trains to my mind one of the best cover photos they have done.
Thanks for the info on the different coal used in the locomotives of the different companies. I know since the run down of the British coal industry the preserved steam railways suffered a great deal with unsuitable coal, especially on some main line trips. The former Great Western locomotives were particularly hard hit as they were designed to burn Welsh steam coal. I think the problem as mainly been solved lately as I have not heard of any problems.
On the other hand at the end of BR steam on the Great Western, they ran a commemorative special with three of the best remaining Castle class locos where it was hoped 100 MPH
Good Afternoon Barkeep and all Present; coffee, p-lease; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Afternoon posts seem to be the way things are happening right now, but we have to "time manage" as best as we can.
First off, apologies to BK - Didn't mean to leave you out yesterday. Note to Tom - Confusion's a "way of life," I think.
James stopped by with some RSC2 material. Atlas did some of those back in N scale yrs ago. It was the only way I could get a NYC shell to drop onto the RS3 chassis when they came out with those. Anyway, a good catch and thank you.
Eric paid a visit with all sorts of comments.
Barndad visited with Collis P. Huntington material. He was a big player in this part of the world. Huntington, WV, is named after him. Years ago Cerinda Evans did a 2 vol. biography which is not all that bad. BTW, Sunset Limited in an excellent book - a copy sits in the SP section of the east wing.
Lars - Excellent posters. Have you seen the new book titled At Any Cost. It's about the S.S. Ohio and its trip to Malta in WW2. I'm about ½ way through it now.
OSP provided some fine material about the SP and the ACL. The Atlantic Coast Line had a variety of E units beginning with an E3 back in 1939. Incidentally this unit was r/b to an E8 in 1953.
They got their E7a units in 1945 and 1946, and, if memory serves, 10 E7b units in 1945. The ACL acquired 5 more E7s in 1948, and a pair of E7b units in 1956. These last two blt. For the RF&P in 1950; ACL purchased them in 1956 from EMD. ACL 544-548 were the last of their E7s - they came on the property in 1950.
The other day we had a question re types of coal stations on the C&O; herewith the answer (at least for main line stations in WV).
The C&O mainline in WV had coal stations at the following locations:
Ronceverte - Elevator
Hinton (2 stations) - Mainline - elevator; yard - elevator
Quinnimont - from cars (crane used to fill tenders from coal cars)
Thurmond - Elevator
Handley - Elevator
Charleston - From cars (Direct coaling machine); this was the only installation of its type on the C&O. Here's how it worked; the coal car was positioned over a pit. The coal was dumped into the pit and lifted to the locomotive tender by a continuous bucket chain. The chain dumped the coal into a chute which, in turn, fed it into the tender.
St. Albans - This was across the mainline until it knocked down in a wreck in the early 50s. - Elevator
and
Huntington - Elevator
The elevator coal dock was the typical concrete facility which you could find in many locations. Incidentally, the C&O loaded coal directly from mine tipples at two spots: Anstead, WV (Hawks Nest Branch) and at Dry Creek, WV (Cabin Creek Branch)
Hope this helps.
Work safe
Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth, it's time for a frosty cold mug of Keiths Ale, a Larsman special hero sandwich - ham, Swiss, mustAHd 'n buttAH, two large pickles from the barrel and a saucer of briine for Tex. Go ahead and give Awk his seed tray, Frostbite his ice cubes 'n Boris his small jar of pickled pig's feet! <grin. And of course, the change is yours.
So, where in blazes has Pete disappeared to??? How am I supposed to "manage" 'round here without either the Bar Chandler (Rob) or his assistant (Pete)
Hey, Pete! I sent you an e-mail . . . hope all's ok.
Surely you can't be 'supervising' whatever basement work is going on, that's what you're paying those guys for!
What's new 'round here other than Cap'n Tom keeping the wheels on the wagon with yet another fine Fallen Flags for this day! Love the ACL, whether down in the Keys or back here at the "island paradise," it looks fine to me!
Liked that SP from yesterday afternoon too! Seemed like we had quite a bit of Southern Pacific these past few days, even B4 West Coast S Dave checked in. Good stuff!
Busy night with two fine efforts put forth by our young friend, James and of course Eric, the desert Swede!
Really not much to bore you guys with today as things 'round here are same-ol, same-ol, if yaknowwutImean!
By the way, my afternoons are getting rather TIGHT and I doubt that my "slot" will be kept for much longer. I've tried to post in the mid to late afternoons, but we've got some things on our plate 'round here interfering with my playtime activites. So, if anyone out there can pick it up, I'd appreciate it. Sure helps Cap'n Tom from having to do it all, and of course keeps us moving forward on the thread. I'll be around, but more than likely in the mornings!
Really great to see the guys reporting back with how they did on the Quiz. I too find it rather incredible to learn that Eric wound up at the first level - Novice - who wuddathunkit
BK 'n Lydia at the Journeyman level - fine job, especially since they were gone for so long.
CM3 I'm NOT Shane! as an Oracle - what else, huh
Doug, the self-annointed barn weevil says he's a Journeyman - good job!
Sorry if I've missed anyone - oh yeah, Pete is an Oracle as well!
Was a lot of fun, Cap'n Tom!
A round on me, Ruth my deAH, and sorry, but I've gotta get a move on . . .
Something to remember me by . . .
WWII "merchie" posters . . . .
Until the next time!
Lars
The Passenger Railroad Fallen Flags of "Our" Place #6
Atlantic Coastline (ACL)
A form of this was initially Posted on Page 114 of the original Thread
source: Classic American Railroads
Caveat: The information provided is NOT all inclusive and is reflective only of the periods mentioned.
Headquarters: Jacksonville, FL
Route mileage in 1950: 5,528
Locomotives in 1963 (all diesel-electric):
Freight: 170
Passenger: 62
Dual mode (freight/passenger): 234
Switchers: 119
Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars - 28,847; Passenger cars - 405
Principal routes in 1950:
Richmond, VA-Tampa, FL, via Jacksonville and Orlando.
Wilson-Wilmington, NC
Wilmington-Pee Dee (Florence) SC
Winston-Salem, NC-Florence
Florence-Atlanta
Brunswick, GA-Montgomery, AL
Birmingham, AL-Waycross, GA
Albany-Dunnellon, FL
Jacksonville-St. Petersburg, FLA via Gainesville, Leesburg and Trilby
Dupont, GA-Naples, FL
Passenger trains of note:
East Coast Champion (New York-Miami)
West Coast Champion (New York-Tampa & St. Petersburg & Sarasota)
Tamiami Champion - Predecessor of East and West Coast Champions
Florida Special (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg)
Miamian (Washington-Miami)
Vacationer (New York-Miami)
Havana Special (New York-Key West, FL)
Palmetto (New York-Savannah & Augusta & Wilmington)
Everglades (New York-Jacksonville)
Gulf Coast Special (New York-Tampa & Ft. Myers & St. Petersburg; formerly Havana Special)
Of note: North of Richmond, RF&P and PRR handled passenger trains.
South of Jacksonville, FEC handled trains bound for Miami and Key West.
SAL handled trains headed for Miami south of Auburndale, FL in 1963.
Other carrier's trains destined to Florida, such as the City of Miami - South Wind - Flamingo - Dixie Limited - Dixie Flyer - Seminole and Southland were combined with named ACL trains.
ACL F7 #531 Champion (credit: Robert West)
ACL ad "The Champion" Speedy New York - Miami Streamliner (from: www.getcruising.com/rails)
ACL #538 E7A (Original line drawing art by Stan Lytle, enhanced with road colors and other details by Jack Bleiberg - from: www.getcruising.com/rails)
Tom
Tuesday and time for breakfast at the Bar by the Ballast!
Coffee's hot - pastries fresh ‘n breakfasts ready to order!
Big surprise for yesterday was NOT the quantity and quality of material, but the ABSENCE of wolfman Pete! Saw him on-line a couple of times, but nothing Posted. That means he's either experiencing ‘puter problems or is not feeling up to par. Hope all's well . . .
Last time we saw Rob was on Feb 28th . . .
James at 8:39 PM ‘n 8:56 PM yesterday: Double-header from our Minnesota Connection! Still engaged in the "catch up" phase, but some quality stuff from Duluth!
No problems with MILWAUKEE ROAD being featured as the "Theme for the Day" next Tuesday. Just keep in mind that YOU will have to kick it off - be the first. If you cannot do it on Tuesday morning, then start off things Monday NIGHT. The rest of us will follow along . . . THANX for the offer.
Yes, yes -DOMEitory, now you're cookin'!!
Active "old time" railroad stations, terminals and depots are hard to find these days. Even the ones that have survived are mere shadows of what they once were. It's good that those interested in restoration have organized successful efforts to keep some of those "palaces" open to the public. Just a darned shame one cannot find a "bunch" of trains to choose from! <groan>
Winnipeg is probably the closest Canadian city to you where you can still experience a bit of the nostalgia from days gone by. However, the Canadian only runs three days per week in each direction, then the train up to Churchill on Hudson Bay also operates on a limited schedule with a night-time departure and early morning return. Still, the area is worth the visit and should you ever do it, be sure to visit an adjacent area called the "Forks." It's named that for the confluence of major rivers that meet up in Winnipeg. Lots ‘n lots of railroad history still remains, although much of what you'll see is geared up for the shopper and tourist.
RS2 locos are "cool" - one of my favorite models is a rather vintage AHM ALCO RS2 in NYC livery - lightning bolt scheme. Really like it! Thanx for the Milwaukee Road run down . . .
Eric at 12:34 AM today: Ohhhhhhhhh, misread once again. Best get used to reading with BOTH eyes!
I seriously DOUBT that the SP ad is incorrect. It all has to do with the era that the ad was run. Perhaps there was trackage - perhaps not. But there had to be a way to get passengers to and from an advertised stop. Something to look into . . . . Thanx for pickin' up on it!
By the by, here's a URL that may shed some light onto Bisbee and railroad right of way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Pedro_and_Southwestern_Railroad
Man that steam loco is a beauty of a beast!
I thought the SAME thing when BK referred to his DVDs as "theatrical." <grin>
Doug at 5:42 AM today: More "light" reading from the barn weevil!
Two weekday mornings in a row - better watch it, you'll have us thinking that you're baaaaaaack!
It's interesting how from time to time there are "references" made to "errors" in published works. So, here's how I approach that - and it has happened to me MANY times with my Fallen Flags and Nostalgia series of ‘stuff' AND material from Wikipedia. If someone finds "fault" but cannot provide a bona fide reference to back up their "claim" - fuhgeddaboudit. Simple, eh The Ether is full of misinformation. It's most time consuming, but certainly worth the effort, to sort through the BS and anecdotal crap in order to get to the FACTS. I'll stick with the published works (books ‘n reputable magazines) until PROVEN otherwise.
So, how are things progressing on the home front
Interesting "moon shot"!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing.
Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle!
Good morning Tom and friends. I'll have a light breakfast please. Busy day at the bar yesterday! Nice posts from DL and CM3. My pictures didn't come through? I see the boss man posted a fine Sunset Limited ad. Very colorful and informative. James put up some nifty pix and stuff on the Milwaukee, and DL has me ready to burn the book where I got my X2000 information. I thought everything in writing was always true ... right? Speaking of which, here's another book revue:
Sunset Limited: The Southern Pacific Railroad and the Development of the American West. 1850-1930, by Richard J. Orsl
1896 cartoon depicts President Collis P. Huntington as an octopus squeezing the life out of California
As the power and influence of railroads grew in the second half of the 19th century, their public image suffered as newspaper reports, political speeches, editorials, and even literature painted them as monopolistic, abusive, and self-interested.
The Southern Pacific was the object of scorn from many quarters, a prominent example being Frank Norris's 1901 novel, The Octopus, which depicted the struggles of farmers and settlers against the mighty railroad. Richard J. Orsl argues that historians have sheepishly gone along with the robber-baron stereotype, focusing on the "Big Four" founders Collis P. Huntington, Leland Stanford, Charles Crocker, and Mark Hopkins, rather than the larger context of the railroad's development activities. He writes: "By dutifully, and often accurately, reciting the depredation of the Big Four, historians have oversimplified, de-emphasized, or completely ignored the complex role played by the Southern Pacific, for generations its territory's largest economic institution, in the process of growth and change that revolutionized California and the West from the 1860s into the early 20th century."
Rather than being a hindrance, SP was a catalyst in the region's growth, often providing basic infrastructure for settlement and economic progress when local and federal governments were unable or unwilling to do so, according to Orsl, a retired professor of history at California State University, Hayward. He supports this argument with a thorough and highly detailed analysis of four key areas to which the railroad contributed significant time, personnel, and material - land settlement and promotion, water management, agricultural development, and conservation. Relying on primary sources from numerous historical collections, Orsl argues persuasively that SP's management believed that the progress of the railroad was tied directly to the progress of the region, and behaved according to that precept.
His introduction traces Southern Pacific's development from its founding in 1864 through the late 1920s. Included are the building of the Central Pacific (soon to become part of SP) through the Sierra Nevada mountains range to Promontory, Utah, to link with the Union Pacific and form the transcontinental railroad; the expansion east to Texas; the acquisition by E.H. Harriman's Union Pacific; and the subsequent forced divestiture of SP by UP.
Orsl hits his stride in the next four sections of Sunset Limited. Looking at the carrier's land-grant policies, he points out that, instead of squandering its land grants for speculative purposes, SP sought to sell the bulk of its land in relatively small tracts, usually no more than 80 acres, to individual farmers. The aim was to put as much land as possible to productive agricultural use, creating traffic for the railroad, as well as to provide a strong framework for economic development of the region by populating it with family farms.
Southern Pacific was a tireless promoter of its service area, particularly California. Developing regional displays for fairs and expositions around the country and overseas, as well as publishing promotional pamphlets, posters, and magazines, the railroad helped attract thousands of immigrants to the region.
To support the growth of agriculture and increases of population, SP became the primary force behind water management. It developed irrigation and water systems, as well as flood-control measures, and supported public and private projects, ultimately joining a good-faith effort to work with the U.S. Reclamation Service. This partnership became onerous over time, and SP ultimately dropped its association with the federal initiative.
For several years, SP ran agricultural demonstration trains to distribute the latest scientific information about farming methods, pest control, plowing techniques, and other issues. Working with professors from land-grant colleges in the region, many of whom traveled on the trains to provide lectures and demonstrations, the railroad helped improve the overall quality of agricultural production. The company also played a constructive role in increasing the geographic reach of California's markets by acquiring specially designed cars to keep produce cooler through improved airflow. The formation of the Pacific Fruit Express subsidiary in 1906 further expedited the movement of western produce to eastern markets.
Sp also successfully worked with state and federal governments in conservation activities and formed a closer alliance with John Muir, naturalist and founder of the Sierra Club, William F. Herrin, SP vice president and chief counsel, helped Muir secure passage at state and federal bills returning Yosemite Valley to the U.S. government for inclusion in Yosemite National Park.
The railroad promoted forestry management and federal regulation of grazing lands. It also maintained firefighting trains, steamed up and ready to go 24 hours a day, seven days a week, during dry seasons.
Orsl's provocative and original work is a significant contribution to the historical record of the role that railroads played in the building of the West. His book refutes many popular notions about the company's alleged stranglehold of California, demolishing, for example, Frank Norris' fictional recounting of the 1880 "Battle of Mussel Slough" between squatters and the railroad in San Joaquin Valley.
The writing flows smoothly, which is impressive, given the large amount of information being presented. Sunset Limited contains nearly 200 pages of notes, along with a moderate number of illustrations.
SP fire crew practices at Truckee in 1925; and college students visit agricultural train at Chico around 1910.
<critique by David C. Lester, editor of R&LHS Newsletter>
Nice neighbor
Good morning Captain Tom and all present!!
Ah, Leon! Good to see you again! No, tonight I only want a cup of coffee. I have to leave soon.
Kind of a SP Day today! Good for Dave and good for me!
Doug – Thanks for the X2000 info! Always interesting to read what other think and know about that train. Most of this info is correct but some numbers are not. First of all the traction motors are frame-mounted, the frame of the truck that is. Each motor is producing 815 kW, 1,092 hp of power.X2000 (the 20 first train sets) was not ordered until 1986, the development of it started 1975. The first test runs started in August 1989 and revenue service September 4 1990.The tilt system does not work below 44 mph. One X2000 train set was bought by China and is still in service there.Southern Pacific Passenger Trains seems to be a very interesting book! A book that should be sitting in my book case! Tom – Congratulations to your promotion to Chief Vacuumer!!Novice? Well, it took me three tries to make the first part and then I was very generous accepting one of my answers. No, no! I probably did not make myself clear, the cab shot is actually from the old country. I showed it because the nature is very similar to the nature in your shot! We made a stop at Harpers Ferry on the way back to Washington D.C. and then we made a photo run with the X2000 across that long bridge. The SP ad can’t be correct. Sunset Limited did not stop in Bisbee, AZ. It must have been a connection from Benson, Az down to Bisbee. Bisbee is less than 10 miles from the Mexican border. Nice book covers!!Lars – Thanks for those video covers! SP is also my favorite road! For Dave I’ll add this picture of SP Class S-2 #5021, a beautiful locomotive.BK – Theatrical DVDs? Hmm. I wonder what kind of theater that was? No, no, don’t tell. It was probably something like Shakespeare. DL – I am looking forward to your trip reports!The German town with the suspended cars is Wuppertal. CM3 – Special operation is not incorrect! It was very special!James – There are quite a few nice station buildnings still standing in the US! The tilting system on the X2000 is only for the comfort of the passengers, it is not necessary for running the train up to 40% faster through the curves. Interesting info on #988! I probably have a picture of it since it is in North Freedom now. I have to check my pictures. I visit North Freedom every time I visit my friends in Baraboo, WI and I’ll go there in May this year.
G-day Tom and all pesent!
Leon- I'm still working on my coffee, but thanks for offering me another cup.
I found something that might be of interest here.
An Alco RSC-2. Of course it's Milwaukee Road
Milwaukee Road #988 was built by the American Locomotive Co. at Schenectady, New York in January of 1947 (serial #75135). It is a model RSC-2, weighing 117 tons on six axles. Four axles arepowered and two are idlers to distribute weight. The Alco V-12, model 244 diesel engine develops 1500 horsepower and is equipped with 6-BLC brakes. The electrical system is General Electric.In November 1946, the Milwaukee Road took delivery of 18 model RSC-2 roadswitchers from Alco. The #988 was thelast freight unit built. "RSC-2" stands for Road Switcher C-type trucks. On the A-1-A trucks, the two end axles are powered by GE 752 traction motors, while the center axle is unpowered but spreads out the weight. This design made the locomotive ideal for lighter weight rail (60 lb. or lighter), such as is found on Mid-Continent's line. In all other respects, the engine is similar to Alco's RS-2 model.The Milwaukee assigned the new diesels to the Wisconsin Valley Division, at Wausau, Wisconsin to study the effects of an all-diesel division. By the summer of 1947, all steam was gone from the Valley. The #988 was soon transferred to the Iowa & Dakota Division. There it received the simplified Milwaukee orange and black paint scheme, and was re-numbered to #594 in 1959. In the early 1960's, the #594 was reassigned to La Crosse, Wisconsin as the La Crosse switch engine, making an occasional sidetrip to Winona, MN or Viroqua, WI.By the early 1970's, most of the older Alco's were shut down and scrapped. But as late as June 1976, the #594 was still holding the afternoon switch in La Crosse. #594 escaped the scrappers torch when it was purchased by the Kettle Morain Scenic Railway in 1976. The KMSR renumbered the engine #4. It was soon sold to Trans-Northern Inc. TN renumbered the unit back to #988.TN used the #988 on several of their shortline operations until early 1981, when it was shut down and stored on the Escanaba & Lake Superior. In late October 1985, a group of Mid-Continent members purchased #988 from TN. The engine arrived at North Freedom on January 3, 1986, and was used for the first time at Snow Train 1986.#988 has been painted back to its original 1947 paint scheme. Not many RSC-2's remain today. Volunteers are presently making repairs to #988's intercooler and several cylinder liners to return her to service.The irony is that the #988 replaced steam in the late 1940's, and now is being preserved by a steam-operated museum. Will it replace steam again in the 2000's? No, steam will always rule on Mid-Continent's Railway.
Information from: http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/DIESEL/milw988.html
Leon- Could I get a coffee and a turkey sandwich. Plus a round for the guys. Thanks.
Alright, here's the thing. Most of the acknowledgements are from page 27. So I am slowly working my way back.
Lars- Well I was looking back among the pages and noticed that you had posted an MKT E7. Very nice picture. I have seen some MKT locomotives with Milwaukee road units. Cool picture. Also enjoyed the X2000 pictures. That is one nice looking passenger train and I'm sure it can carry passenger around quite quickly too.
Great looking book and video covers too. That Daylight movie from Pentrex looks like a really cool movie. Thanks.
Tom- I was looking at some of those RDC pictures.. What great looking RDCs. They still catch my eye. I just love how they look. Thanks for the pictures. I also saw your article on London's railways and that Victoria station. Now that's a wow. What an amazing looking station. That is one of the nicer looking stations that I have seen. I don't see to many stations like this in the U.S. I wish a lot of the old stations are now gone. It's really sad.
I did read the idiot of the week #6. I wonder how many people like him are out there. Unbelievable!
BTW: Thanks for the information on the Dormitory cars. I know what it should be called. A "Dome"itory. But alas. Thank you for the info. It helped. Also, thanks for all the passenger nostalgia. Some real nice passenger trains out there.
I have an offer for Tuesday's theme of the day. How about the Milwaukee road? Haven't had that topic for quite some time.
Rob- I haven't heard from you in quite some time. Glad you're back. I enjoyed looking at all your pictures of the RDCs. Especially that Pacific Great Eastern RDC. Thanks for the pictures.
CM3- EM1s not challengers. Hmmm. Interesting. They look like one. But I'm wrong so I will keep that in mind. Thanks for catching it. Anyway I saw your southern signs chart. I looked it over and found that I am "boiled Peanuts." Boiled Peanuts? Ok. But it was interesting indeed.
Eric- The Stockholm Central station is quite a nice looking station. Like I said, I wish the U.S. had ripped down most of the older stations. There are some really unique stations still around but many have all but disappeared. But that's life.
Oh and thanks for the information in the interesting passenger train set up. So those last few cars couldn't be connected to the cars in front of it. It's kind of funny to see that locomotive in the middle of the train. But it makes sense. Cars need lighting and heat/ cooling.
Doug- The X2000 tilting train. What an interesting concept. But that tilting probably makes it easier for the train to turn without all of the stress and friction on the trucks. It's a really good idea out to the test. Thanks for the article.
Budkarr- Good to hear from you after sometime. Hopefully you can come on back soon.
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #21
Initially Posted on Page 157 of the original Thread
Did you hear what the Colonel said about the "Sunset Limited" "WHAT A TRAIN, SUN! THE FLOWER OF NEW ORLEANS, THE BOAST OF TEXAS, THE SUNLIGHT OF ARIZONA, THE SENSATION OF HOLLYWOOD. ANOTHER OF SP'S WONDERFUL WAYS WEST!" We're happy to say that thousands of Americans are finding our "Sunset Limited" a new and charming way to go West. We think that you, too, will enjoy this sensational new "Streamlined Train With the Southern Accent." Especially with that New Orleans stopover. Luxury Pullman or Chair Car. Extra fare. Your connections at New Orleans from, or two, points like Chicago, St. Louis, Washington, New York, etc., are good and offer fine streamliners. (New Orleans is a gourmet's and shopper's delight as you know.) The "Sunset Limited" takes you in 42 delightful hours through the heart of Texas, Southern Arizona's winter resort country, Palm Springs & Los Angeles. There, you can connect with other great new S.P. streamliners, can return by another S.P. route. You see twice as much. The little map shows how. Why not try it this winter? Or next summer? And meantime, why not let us send you our New Orleans folder, and full information about this new way to California? Mail coupon below today "SUNSET LIMITED" New Orleans-Los Angeles via Houston, San Antonio, El Paso, Douglas, Bisbee, Tucson, Phoenix, Palm Springs. Connects at New Orleans with streamliners to and from Chicago, New York, Washington, other Eastern points. SP AMERICA'S MOST MODERN TRAINS
It's been quite an active Monday here at the Saloon by the Siding and Ruth surely needs a break. Go ahead, sweet thing, I'll watch things 'til you're ready to return . . .
Noted the presence of one of our old timers - CFournier Chris (Permanent member of the Legion of the Lost) was logged on. But he doesn't frequent this Forum or Thread as an active participant anymore. My guess is that he browses though . . . surely is a puzzling thing. Oh well . . .
Thought I'd catch up with the acknowledgements before the Posts overtake me. Putting totgether the morning epistle take too much time as it is!
Lars at 9:13 AM today: A surprise morning appearance by our Manager, but of course, most appreciated!
The SP material seems to have kicked off something good for Dave. Hope he's able to check 'em out.
VIA Rail travels have most times been the hi-lites of anything experienced on the rails. Of course, as a kid, the trips between NYC, Baltimore 'n WashDC were what memories are made of. Speaking for adult times, the VIA trips in those splendid observation domes simply cannot be rivaled. Even the Alaska Railroad's Ultra Domes - as spacious and modern as they are - simply cannot match up to the Budd Park Cars of VIA Rail. Now, travel aboard those &%#$ Renaissance cars (Chunnel Chuggers) well, that's 'nother story! <grin>
Glad you made it in today!
Doug at 11:01 AM today: Another surprise from the barn weevil. Two AM Posts on a Monday. Man oh man, that IS most welcome and surely makes things perk along quite nicely 'round here. Thanx!
So, what's NOT to like about SP? Aside from some rather 'serious' bashing that an old friend of mine had with 'em (worked for them for decades right up 'til they folded the tent), stories of the RR are most intersting and in keeping with what we like to do 'round here.
Surely hope this repair job is on the contractor!
BK at 11:37 AM today: What IS this
Surprise day at the Tavern by the Tracks! Now it's our Alberta Connection with quite a Post -many thanx to you 'n Lydia!
Both made it to JOURNEYMAN, eh
Well, that's a respectable level - but with "open book" you cudda "aced" it! <grin>
Wonderful supplemental Pix for the SP "stuff" of the day! Can't call it "theme," otherwise I get things totally bolixed up and who knows, even old 20 Fingers might come back and dump a few zillion words on us! <groan>
Thanx for your offer regarding the Tuesday Theme for the Day!
I'd prefer to have someone select a RR, then "go" with it as the FIRST offering. Then the remainder of us can chime in with whatever we find to supplement it. For those who work days and find it hard to get here during the early morning, it could be Posted the night before (Monday). Of course it would help greatly to ANNOUNCE the selection well in advance, in order to provide some preparation time for us all. Think about it!
I'm also the Chief Vacuumer 'round here. Awhile back I bought the bride one of those central vac systems. She liked it so well, that I now am "qualified" to solo! Hmmmmmmm.
Sounds as if your weekender turned out to be just a bit more than you had expected. I'd think by now, you've figured out the "system." <grin>
Part V of the QUIZ is still in the "thinking" stages. Don't want to run this into the ground, but I'll come up with something in the near future, if challenges to the knowledge base seems to flick the right switches!
DL at 12:49 PM today: And yet ANOTHER bright note arrives in the form of a fine Post from our UK Connection. Certainly apprecite your taking the time to resume activities and you covered a bit of ground there.
Yes, those ad writers were indeed creative people when it came to getting the word out about the railroads. Many of those ads were designed for magazines and the more pictorial ones for billboards. TV hadn't yet taken over the media. The RRs were in steep competition with one another, so the idea was to use as many "buzzwords" and "catchy phrases" along with carefully placed photos to capture the attention of the traveling public. Works for me too!
I am familiar with the ship model exhibit at the Halifax museum and will indeed direct Pete to it. Now, we are planning on a morning visit. But having experienced "life with Pete," up close 'n personal while he was here during the ice storms, it will be interesting to see just what time we get moving. Our train departs at 1:15 PM or thereabouts. I may have to call upon the services of a Canadian Navy chap I know who works underwater demolition to get him "started."
CM3 at 1:34 PM today: Not to be left out, our WVA Connection made it in as well and provided one 'n all with a typical offering, covering as many bases as were visible on the screen.
Once again I'm dazzled by the info you provide. I had NO clue regarding different sizes (and types) of coal for steam locos.
Many thanx for the round 'n quarters. It was a busy Saturday and I'm told that Herr Wurltizer was belting out the tunes. All the track gangs were in along with a biker group that passed through town. Was quite an evening . . . best not "go there." <ooooooooooh>
Congrats on achieving the highest level on the QUIZ -
Good Afternoon Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. We're later than Amtrak today, but here goes.
Pete stopped by with some questions.
The practice of naming locomotives varied/varies from railroad to railroad. It was a lot more common years ago than it is now. For example, during the Civil War, the United States Military Railroad had many named locomotives. One railroad in recent years with named locomotives was the Boston and Maine; there was a contest and schoolchildren named them. I know I have some more about that in the east wing.
Coal stations are also called coal docks. The C&O had many different types - I'll get some more information together for you. In the meantime, you can go to the C&O Historical Society's website and spend a fun evening looking through the picture archives; you'll see what the C&O is favored by many of us.
Last - some roads did, indeed, use different sizes of coal for passenger and freight. You also had different types of coal burned by different railroads; for example, lignite on the Great Northern, bituminous on most roads, and anthracite on other roads such as the Reading and the Lackawanna; this accounts for variations in firebox types; you're not likely to confuse a Reading locomotive with a New York Central locomotive.
Eric - I think I did pretty well with the picture - IIRC, I mentioned something about a special operation with some CP cars.
Barndad visited - Joys of spring weather in the heartland - I hope you got the concrete squared away w/o too much damage. Thanks for more PSU and BC material. I wish the pictures in the Jack Delano article and the other piece you sent were accessible - every other one came through fine except the stuff you sent.
Lars stopped by as well. Enjoyed the album of dome car shots and the SP video covers and books. The Pentrex set is a good one; I bought the individual tapes yrs ago; the snow fighting one is a real snapshot of vintage SP. It has black widows in the Sierra, steam puliing tourist sleepers, and footage of the extraction of the "City" out of the snow after it got buried in the snow. If you have never read the book Fiddle Hill, see if you can round up a copy - an excellent depiction of SP in the Sierras.
Dave stopped by - be careful out there. A few of our WV units got back not too long ago and I have several; friends who are getting ready to head back over there (3rd deployment for most). We are all thinking of you and I can see Boris painted on the side of a tank.
Mike sent a spectacular shot of a Big Six at Harpers Ferry. 6190 was blt. Around 1926 (memory here; I don't have my B&O book here). It was blt by Lima. The Summer, 2006 issue of Classic Trains had a good story about them. Anyone check out ll the tank cars on the train?
James stopped by with more Santa Fe and B&O material.
To keep the record straight, EM1s were not Challengers. The EM1s, r/n 7600-7629, were built in 1944 by Baldwin. 115 thousand pounds tractive effort(!) truly a beast.
OSP is keeping a firm hand on the throttle and an eagle eye on the rail which is kind of hard to do with all the mascots nipping/flying/slashing at him. Thanks for encouraging words, summaries, neat pictures, etc. B4 I forget, I ran the table on the quiz (I'd better, I'll tell you). Nice choice of movies, too. Here's a possible double feature for those who like thrillers: "The Third Man," and "Double Indemnity." Last one is one of my favorites. If we can't do that how about "The Thirty Nine Steps," and "Vertigo?" My friend enjoyed his first NHL game Islanders and Caps in DC over the weekend - maybe we have another convert. IMHO, the NHL has a good product, but they are clueless re marketing and promotion.
Ziller, Zeller, and Zollar -excellent.
Pete's post appeared when I hit the rferesh button before posting this - good to hear from you, sir.
Well, hello Tom and all in
Pint of Bateman's for me and whatever snacks might be on offer - I'll pick something please.
Dust settled a bit letting me do a bit of catch up - I've managed to go back over pages 22 - 23 - 24 so my comments will relate to that - sorry if the conversation has moved on a bit but there were good things there and I wanted to comment on them!
Pete - you mentioned the Rhyl miniature railway - I did not know that still existed so good to know it does. I think this was equipped by the famous model (not toy) manufacturer W J Bassett Lowke. His company specialised in models of trains up to large sizes as well as ship and architectural models. They had their HQ in Northampton, England. The owner was a keen ‘modernizer' and recruited the architect Charles Rennie Mackintosh (from Glasgow) one of the UK's most important architects to remodel his home in the town when he married. This has recently been restored and although I have not visited it I understand it has an exhibition of his models there.
Here is some info. The model trains made by BL were of superb quality and above the price of most toy purchasers at the time.
http://www.bassettlowkesociety.org.uk/
http://www.78derngate.org.uk/intro.html
What will also be of interest to you Tom is that I noticed models of ships by Basset Lowke form some of the model collection upstairs at the Halifax museum of the Atlantic which I visited not so long ago. Be sure to take Pete to see these on your planned trip!
Pete - you also mentioned the German town with the suspended cars on the overhead system - this is interesting and I have seen a good website - which I can't find because I can't recall the name of the town - do you know it - with that info the link will be findable!
Mike - nice pic of Currour in the snow - Pete has ‘captioned' this already - suffice to say it was when Scottish lines still boasted locomotive hauled passenger trains with comfy carriages - the current diesel units are rather cramped I'm sorry to say - great pic. Likewise I enjoyed the RDC pics on p23 and the great Rock Island Loco (F Type?) below the Chicago Board of Trade - nice pic!
Tom - really enjoyed the classic era nostalgia ads you have posted - I'm too young to have been there back in the day but the copy writers still have some power - I could jump aboard right now!
Good choice for the Movie - Strangers on a Train, one of Hitchcock's great ones. He certainly enjoyed giving trains a good role in his films (alongside Blondes of course, and rightly so) - North by North West is one of my favourite films of all time - do you know what the train is that is featured there (along side Eva Marie Saint if I recall correctly).
Eric - nice pic of you on the footplate - interesting dialogue about signalling this kicked off too.
Lars - good to follow your house hunting exploits from the sunny zones. It took me a while to realise the agents were not in the business of helping you find the home you want, but in the business of selling he homes they've got - these are not the same thing, and that can be an issue!
James - good pic of a mixed train a while back - these were uncommon in the UK - but on lightly used lines in Scotland I think they were more common.
Well, hopefully I'll be able to work through a few more pages and I also have some trip reports to post too, so I look forward to being back before too long!
Regards
DL
Good Morning Captain Tom & fellow sophisticates!
An early morning here in the Canadian Rockies and what better way than to share a few moments with my friends at the bar? Ruth, a round on me and we'll take two number three selections from the menu board. Tea for Lydia, a pot of coffee for me with a few "splashes" if you please! Keep the change of course! Most quality material dropped off these past few days and any talk of our demise is surely grossly exaggerated.
Permit me to add my back to Dave, who goes by the cyber handle of West Coast S. It has been quite awhile since you frequented the tavern, but more importantly you are now reinstated as a regular customer, perhaps with a "leave of absence" from the boss.
We had quite an active weekend here at the mountain retreat. When Lydia says she would like to have "a few friends in" for the week, begin the count at a dozen and go up from there!
Yesterday was pick up and clean up time. I have become quite adept at using the vacuum cleaner. Lydia is in charge of dusting the numerous knick knacks and furniture. I have no tolerance for it!
Add my concurrence to the anti-rude conversation. I believe my thoughts on that are well documented over on the former thread. I should add that as long as our Captain puts up with it, then so should we. However, perhaps one day someone will enlighten me with regard to why certain of our customers have frequented this place only to put forth their material without so much as a mention of the guys who make this place what it is and has been. Oh, look at me, I am on a and it is far too early in the morning for that! <grin> Point made? I hope so.
Captain Tom, my compliments on another fine effort to keep the ship afloat. Your Saturday endeavors, along with those from Doug and "cast" made the day appear quite successful.
I shall glady do my part to assist with the Tuesday Theme idea.
Neither of us are acquainted with the movies at the Emporium, but we shall take advantage of them this night. One thing about popcorn for me is the annoying "stick in the teeth" after effects I get from it. I have never really been enamored with anything approaching the status of junk food. Now if they served prime rib, well that IS another matter! <grin>
We got quite a laugh out of the reworked Birthday Watch List. Fine job and it shows once again that you DO try to accommodate the customers. My bookend Lars came up with a good idea for incorporation and of course, Shane provided us with the southern horoscopes!
Thanks to Lydia, I will provide my Soouthern Pacific material in honor of our left coast representative, Dave. Let us raise our chilled OJ in toast to our friend and wish him a safe tour and speedy return to his family and us! Cheers, Dave!
And now something on the Southern Pacific Daylight (Dave's RR of choice):
Drumheads of the Daylight
DVD of the Daylight
Southern Pacific Railroad #6018, an EMD E8 locomotive, leads train No. 99, the Coast Daylight, through Glendale, California in 1958. [Used under Fair Use Provision/wikipedia.com]
Not sure about tomorrow, but I hope to be back in mid-week. Perhaps we shall see Rob again as he is either without power from the Ontario storm or working or both! Was good to witness his return, brief as it was. At least we know his heart is with us!
Should also make mention of the fine material from Eric, Pete, Doug, Mike, James and of course - Tom. I managed to get through it all last evening, before Lydia dragged me away from the keyboard for something far better. Now, now, let us not get carried away with imagination, gentlemen! She had a couple of theatrical DVD's for us to view which up here in the mountain retreat is our form of adult entertainment!
Now for the revelation regarding the QUIZ! Lydia and I took the "test" on separate sheets of paper. We decided that in absence of any prohibition of going back through the pages for help, we would NOT do so. We wanted to do it "cold turkey." However, we both scanned the pages we had missed since departing in late-December, just to get up to speed. (I am still not at all close to reading everything!) Here then are the results:
Lydia is a Journeyman and so am I. Great job Captain Tom! Bring
Good morning Ruth! No, I didn't lose my job. I had to come home so the concrete guy could fix my little 6 foot leak. I see guys on other houses addressing the shingle blow-offs too, so I guess I can't complain about the service.
I think I can manage to contribute to the Tuesday theme on a regular basis, and suggest we stay with the SP, since it seems to be going already. Here's a book review to add to Moon Pie's list:
Southern Pacific Passenger Trains by Brian Solomon
Brian Solomon is well known in the circle of SOuthern Pacific authorities, so expectations were high for his book. The passenger service of SP in it's heyday was revered and remains a popular subject. Unfortunately, some questionable decisions on organization and structure, combined with some poor editing, drastically compromise the quality of what could otherwise have been a worthy introduction to the topic.
SP's passenger trains are most commonly identified with two things: its renowned Daylight steamliners, and later, during the waning years of passenger rail travel, its infamous - some would say insidious - moves to degrade service quality in an effort to drive away customers. It is not surprising, then, that Solomon chose to devote roughly half the book - two of four chapters - to these topics.
The balance of the book comprises a personal account of SP's passenger operations by contributor Feed Matthews and a discussion od SP's primary "four scenic routes." Solomon chose to organize the book by beginning with Matthews' account and continuing with the Daylight chapter. This is an odd choice considering that Matthews discusses only the years 1945 through 1971; one would expect that a history od SOuthern Pacific's passenger service would start at the beginning of service.
With SP's heritage predating the transcontinental railroad, certainly something of consequence occured during that first century that could have been included in the first chapter to orient the reader. The fact that the era represented by most of the photographs in the book falls within the same years covered by Matthews suggests that Solomon's intention was to focus on the more-popularized portion of SP's hostory. This is a defensible choice to make, but it causes the book to not live up to its title.
Organizational issues aside, the book's editing is spotty. Matthews writes in a personal, meandering style that some might find endearing but others are more likely to find frustrating to read. A sharp editor wouold have toned this down to improve the chapter's integration with the rest of the book. Further incongruity is found in the final chapter, "Demise and the Coming of Amtrack (sic)," which reads like a short research paper, including a distracting reliance on block quotes from other sources. While style can be a subjective issue, the editing gaffes are less-forgivable in other areas. The aforementioned misspelling "Amtrack" actually appears in a large typeface in a chapter title, to say nothing of less-conspicuously-placed errors that even a computer's spell-checking feature should have caught.
Given the book's brevity and the predominance of photographs, the book serves its coffee-table duty. For the serious rail-history enthusiast who seeks more than a cursory look at the already well-known aspects of SP's passenger trains, many better options are available.
James Aslakesen, Portlans, Ore.
Ruth, you look as magnificent 'n as radiant as evAH my deAH! A steaming mug of Joe with one of those "BK splashes" if you please. I'll hold off on ordering breakfast for a bit . . . .
Let me begin with my BACK to West Coast S Dave - the 'sleuth from the left coast"!
Sorry to learn that you're in Iraq. Hope the investigations center more on "them" than us! Anyway, a 9-month hiatius from family, friends 'n familiar places does take the starch out. Hopefully the time is passing quicky and B4 you know it, you'll be back in the "routine" of your investigator life in southern California.
I think Cap'n Tom really hit the nail on the head regarding a factor that has always ticked me off. I'm referring to guys past 'n present who absolutely refuse to engage in the banter at the bar and also are quite remiss with the recognition of others. That stuff shudda chased me away long ago, but if not for the guys like Pete - Eric - CM3 I'm NOT Shane - Rob and of course, Tom, I'd be history. Capn' Tom has a saying that goes like this: I dislike three things: Warm beer, wet toilet paper and rude people. I echo those sentiments, ESPECIALLY with the last one.
Thanks for the Via Rail spread, always looks fine to me and I see the "cameo" as well!
No wonder it's one of your "signature" pix . . . looks good to me and I'm envious that you've travled in those Budd obs domes so many times. Great cars, simply great! And you are correct, notmany roads refer to their bedrooms cars as 'dormitory.' Sleepers, bedroom cars, etc. seems to be the more accepted jargon. However, it was indeed a term used by some roads . . .
So, Dave, Boris awaits you with open arms. He cannot wait to gaze into your eyes from his Cyclops point-of-view <arrrggghhh>. Don't quite know what you did to EARN his "affection" but he's wonderin' where you are this morning . . .
Nice effort from Doug, who I see goes by the new handle of "barn weevil" - that fits! <grin>
Also good stuff from Eric and even James has returned to the fold (for the umpteenth time it seems) with a fine contribution.
Pete's buddy over there in Europe seems to spend his LIFE traveling aboard trains for the fun of it. Now that's the way to go! Too bad DOMES aren't part of the scene in the countries he visits. Guess it's pretty much a dead issue about getting him to visit us. Please let Alan know that I too appreciate the pix!
The flicks at the Emporium are new to me, but that's fine. The popcorn is always fresh 'n hot, the buttAH is REAL, the drinks are cold and it's a great place to spend some time in. Balcony seating is my favorite. Still can "get away" with "stuff" up there, huh
I noticed the Southern Pacific ad from Cap'n Tom on Friday. How coincidental that Dave showed up on Saturday!! Anyway, here's a spate of book 'n video covers to commemorate the return of our Left Coast Connection!
One more, Ruth along with a couple of crullers from the bakery case, then I'm gone-zo for awhile. Keep the change lovely Lady!
A smile to begin the week!
It was hard to have a conversation with anyone, there were too many people talking.
(A Yogi-ism!)
A new week and a great time to draw a hot mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from our Menu Board!
Hope y'all enjoyed a relaxing weekend and are recharged ‘n ready to give the boss a full day's work for a full day's pay.
Should business remain at the pace we experienced last week, I'll reinstitute the RR Theme for the Day one week from this Tuesday. But it will all depend upon YOU and of course, your INTEREST! Any recommended roads
Still "smiling" over the return of West Coast S Dave from the Legion of the Lost and surely hope his comings ‘n goings keeps him out of danger. Then again, my guess is any place in that part of the world is a risky proposition, fer sure, fer sure. We'll be thinking ‘bout ya Dave and THANX again for the visit!
Surely speaks volumes for Dave when he even took the time to mention BORIS!
Consider this: There are many guys who have joined the Legion of the Lost who simply would not engage in the banter at the bar. Here's a guy a half a world a way in a hostile environment and he did. Get it
Guess not - for some.
Another smile: Surely appreciate those of you who made last week such a resounding success in comparison with the doldrums of recent times!
Doug at 7:17 PM Saturday: Another fine contribution from the "barn weevil" along with some great Pix. That is one "history" lesson I hope doesn't get lost in the Ether - well worth the read!
Those Southern Horoscopes quickly "fell into place," eh
Hey! The idea of the QUIZ was simply to determine how much about "Our" Place one can recall without having to resort to hours of research and so forth. Just one or two times through the questions and that's that. ORACLE is top shelf, but ain't nothing to be ashamed of if a lesser level was attained. <geesh>
Many THANX for the multiple appearances on Saturday!
James at 10:06 PM Saturday: Appears that you're off to a good start in playing "catch up."
Thunder snow, especially with lightning, is a bit unnerving to say the least. I can recall a time here in mid-continent USA when the temps got up into the 70s in late DECEMBER. A front came through with thunder, lightning and blizzard conditions. Next thing ya know, we had tornado watches ‘n warnings along with a "touchdown" or two. Bad times fer sure, fer sure. Probably aren't any "safe" places to live on earth when it comes to avoiding the wrath of Mother Nature. Glad you ‘n yours are safe . . .
Nice Pix - especially the Santa Fe Alco!
Too bad we no longer have the services of passengerfan Al (20 Fingers) who now is a Permanent member of the Legion of the Lost. For if anyone could address the "dormitory car" moniker, he surely would. So, let me see if I can make any sense out of it for you.
Those observation dome cars (some refer to as dome observation) that VIA Rail operates were all taken from Canadian Pacific's passenger car inventory when that road gave up running ‘em. They were all built by the Budd Company for CPR, and were not transferred from U.S. roads to Canada to the best of my recollection.
To my knowledge, they never were referred to as "dormitory" cars, but did bear the names of national parks in Canada - hence the descriptor: Park Cars (Banff - Glacier - Revelstoke, etc.).
In the U.S., the passenger railroads referred to their cars in whatever unique way best fit their needs for advertising. The California Zephyr cars probably were the most famous, but surely not the only ones to operate the observation domes. Check out this inventory for the various types and configurations of passenger cars operated on the Zephyr:
http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/calzephyrconsist.htm
Now to the descriptor, dormitory. Taken literally, it means housing for sleeping quarters. In the popular jargon, we think of it primarily associated with college campus life. For railroad cars it simply refers to those cars that have sleeping units incorporated within them.
So, there's a bit of a run down on the subject, one that surely falls far short of what the "rivet counters" and assorted other experts can offer. But it's ‘bout the best I can come up with on this day!
VIA Rail is the ONLY operating railroad left ANYWHERE that regularly assigns the observation domes to it's western long distance train consists. The clock is ticking on them and before too long, they'll be gone - gone - gone. I consider myself very fortunate to have traveled aboard ‘em so many times on so many trips over these past 17 years.
Here's a link for further elaboration on the VIA Rail passenger equipment:
Good morning Tom and friends! I'll have a light breakfast please. Glad you liked the articles James, and thanks for the Santa Fe and B&O pictures. Nice post from Eric. I didn't even think about all the truck emisions from making so many runs. Enjoyed your pictures too.
Seems that everyone else has taken a turn with X2000 material. Here's mine.
X-2000 Tilting Express Train
The X-2000 awaiting departure at Stockholm Central Railway Station
Origin: Sweden: Swedish State Railways (SJ), 1990. Type: High-speed electric train. Gauge: 4ft 8 1/2in (1,435mm). Propulsion: AC at 15000V 16 2/3Hz fed via overhead catenary, step=down transformer and thyrister control system to four frame-mounted 750hp (1000kW) traction motors each driving one axle by a hollow-axle flexible drive. Weight: 160,850lb (73t) adhesive, 804, 450lb (365t) total. Axleload: 40,223lb (18.25t). Overall length: (Motor coach): 57ft 9in (17.6m). Overall length: Complete train, 541ft 5in (166m). Max speed: 131mph (210km/h).
Like the inhabitants of other nations, the Swedes have felt their trains must go faster to maintain competitiveness into the 21st Century, but being a small country (in population terms), those concerned seem to have made up their minds what to do about it more quickly and more definitely than others. In Sweden, the hilly countryside made the building of new lines too expensive and so tilting won the day. The ASEA company, not then amalgamated with Brown Boveri of Baden, Switzerland, to form ABB (now Adtranz), began work on a prototype tilting train, which by 1968 had reached a point where the naturally cautious railway company felt confident enough to place an order. In the event, the first of 20 such trains began public service in 1960.
A train is formed from a power car (which does not tilt) and up to six "business" and "touring" cars - the equivalent ff "1st" and "2nd" class. One touring car has a buffet/restaurant section and another at the other end of the train has a driving compartment. A double-length train is possible using two power cars and up to twelve carriages, though this has not yet been found necessary. The new trains plus track realignments and upgrading have reduced the total running time between Stockholm and Gothenburg from just over four hours to less than three and the service of "X-2000" trains is now hourly on this line; the resulting increase of traffic is 37 per cent. Other less frequent services are run by these trainsets northwards from Stockholm as well south-west to Malmo.
The tilting mechanism is controlled by an accelerometer at whichever end is in front of the train at the time and is measured at one bogie of each coach. The amount of tilt is dependent on the speed and radius but limited to an amount where a passenger sitting on a corner seat on one side of a coach is about one foot or 300mm higher or lower than a passenger on the other, in addition to any difference in height due to the super-elevation of the rails. Below 28mph (45km/h) the system does not operate.
An interesting feature is that, as well as the tilting mechanism, there is the "steerability" of the axles in each bogie. Each axle has an independent movement to enable it to assume a radial position on curves, which are almost continuous in hilly Sweden. This reduces the power required as well as wear on both.
During 1993 one of these trains was taken to North America and demonstrated between New York and Washington under its own power and working public train services. As well, the "X-2000" ran experimental trains on the Boston line and elsewhere, using Amtrak diesels. It is rumored that the Americans liked what they saw and that an order might eventually follow. Of course, the good experiences which the Americans had already had with Swedish electric motive power also counted. Some "X-2000" coaches have been demonstrated in Australia, for a Sydney to Brisbane tilting train.
This material is from Trains of the World by Brian Hollingsworth, who was a former civil engineer with Britain's Great Western Railway, and is author of more than a dozen books on railways and locomotives.
No one here, the Sunday closing makes this place kind of deserted early Monday morning!
Had planned to show some pictures last Saturday but that was not to hapen! A number of things popped up and had to be fixed so I couldn't get to the bar until 25 minutes before midnight. I skipped the whole thing but now I am here!
Doug – Sorry to hear about the trouble with your new house. It seems like that kind of trouble is getting more and more common. Even if the builder has to fix all that it is still causing a lot of trouble. Thanks for the last segment of the Battle Over Coal story! The sad part of that battle is that in the end the environment was the loser. More than 70,000 tons of coal annually means a lot of trucks. I missed the 30 divided by 1/2 and 55 cents questions! It is true that a pound of bricks weighs the same as a pound of feathers but I would certainly not want to drop the bricks on my toes!Big Shoulders! Very interesting story and beautiful pictures! Thank you!Tom – Now I am confused too! Didn’t I show a this picture in my post?I don’t know if I just dreamed I posted it or if something else happened? Anyway, this is the picture from Boone, IA. I hope it is visible now. Your Southern Horoscope tells that you are a night person! Are you telling me that the horoscope is wrong? I passed (!?) and can claim the title of Oracle. Well, that is if I kind of stretch the truth just a tiny little bit in part I. Novice or Oracle, that is the question! OK, I am a novice!Two more train movies at the Mentor Village Emporium Theatre! I must admit I know nothing about them but I am sure the boss knows what he is doing! More nice pictures of VIA cars!! And the Captain himself! Looking at the last picture showing the line I have to show a picture that looks very similar from the old country.Lars – Thanks for the nice words! I can understand that you are confused about the pictures! So am I. I really don’t know what happened. I am/was quite sure that I also posted the picture above (top), but I can’t find it! Nice pictures of some very nice Dome Cars including two Amtrak cars!!Pete – The picture of the unusual consist with the X2000 was taken at a locomotive depot in Montréal, Canada. They were about to remove the three spleepers, the two private cars and the CP locomotive before we started our trip back to Washington D.C. I am afraid you are right about steam locomotives in China but as far as I know there are still a number of them in use. Nice pictures from Germany and the narrow gauge railway! I think the Class 99 locomotives are by far the most common narrow gauge locos remaining today.Dave – A surprise visit!! Good toy see you again even for a brief moment! Looking forward to your return whenever you can! Be careful out there!Mike – Thanks for the Url’s. I like the picture from Harpers Ferry. Below is a picture from 1993. James – The train in my picture was something different. It was from the Canadian Tour with the X2000 in 1993. The reason for the consist being put together that way was that the three sleepers and two private cars did not have any cables/lines so the X2000 (last in the consist) could not be hooked up with the F40s. In order to provide HEP one F40 had to go coupled to the X2000 and in front of the F40 were the rest of the cars and up front only one F40 to haul the train. That was considered being to little power so CP added one of their own locomotives. This was the consist when we traveled between the different cities where the X2000 was going to run demo runs. When we got to the city they just uncoupled the part of the train in front of the last F40 and we were ready to run the dem runs with teh X2000. Since all demo runs took place in non-electrified territory we had the F40 pushing X2000. The F40 could be controlled from the X2000. Nice pictures! The B&O’s EM1 is impressive!!
Leon- Could I get a coffee and a turkey sandwich please.
I am going to work my way through the pages, starting with the first and working my way back, as Tom has suggested for me. I will go through a page a day.
Glad to meet you Dave. I can't seem to remember whether or not we have met before in the past. But in any case hope make it home safe from Iraq.
CM3- I enjoyed your small piece on the C&O coal line. I have only heard of a few of those cities. The rest I'm not so familiar with. Thanks for sharing.
BTW: We had a lot of that Thundersnow. It was crazy. I haven't seen a storm like this since the Halloween storm of 1991. Some of the Thunder coming out of this storm was quite loud. I was amazed.
Pete- I liked the pictures of the Quedlinburg station and those German steamers. Some pretty nice stuff. Thanks for sharing.
Eric- I noticed that Chinese steam engine you had posted. That was a really nice looking steam locomotive. I am quite amazed that they still used and made steam locomotives until last year. I also noticed a picture of a really strange passenger train consist. I never thought an SD40-2 and F40 would lead a passenger train. It was also interesting to see an F40 in the middle of the passenger train. Do you know why they did that? Was it a back up locomotive?
Doug- I am going to have to read the other Penn state coal articles before I read your latest article, but I am sure I am going to enjoy it. BTW: I got a kick out of the trick questions you posted. Some of those were really cool and really hard to figure out. I also liked the man standing on the scale. That was funny. Thanks for sharing.
BTW, I did get to read the "Big Shoulders" article. That was qute and interesting article. I especially liked all the pictures that Jack Delano took. some of those like the Hump yard tower operator, were pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.
Lars- I really enjoyed looking at all other the Dome cars. Ever since I took a ride on the Wisconsin Central's private dome car, I have taken a ride on as many as I could. There quite an addicting passenger car to ride. Thanks for all the pictures.
Tom- That is a nice Via rail Dormitory observation car you have a picture of. I seem to remember that the California Zephyr had some of those on the back of there trains also. Did the Burlington purchase these cars from the same company as Via rail did?
Mike- Thanks for all the pictures. You always seem to find some pretty nice looking pictures. And not just a couple either. Really enjoyed them.
Now it's time for some pictures.
I thought I would start off with a picture of the Santa Fe Passenger train, The Super Chief. One of the more famous pasenger trains here in the U.S. This one is a little more special. An A-B-A-A set of PA1s works it's way out of Pittsburg, California on March 24, 1965.
The one thing the Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe was famous for, were there huge locomotive lashups. Here at Mojave, Californis, Six locomotives led by ATSF F45 #5970 crawls it's way up a big hill with its really long train on February 27, 1989. You can't even see the end of the train.
I thought I would end the picture posting with one of Baltimore and Ohio's EM1 Challenger type steam locomotive. This was located in Fairport Harbor, Ohio on April 11, 1952.
Good evening Tom and friends! Tis I ... the barn weevil. I'll have another Lager, and dig out the Michigan quarters for Herr Wurlitzer. Just saw my horoscope, and it's just darn scary how accurate some of that stuff can be! Got some real nice dome pix from manager "Moon Pie"Lars today! Glad you liked the last installment of the Penn State coal story Catfish Pete. You know, I was wondering if the railroad would have channeled monies blown on fighting Penn State into actual rate reductions, if that story might have had a different, or at least a postponed ending. No mention was ever made about how much these different studies cost the university, so how much did they really save? I agree. The loco pix might have been the very same loco. Thanks very much for the great Alan (what's his sign?) pix!
I remember the old pix from Tom. I even recall using one to graft him into a picture of our humble little saloon by the tracks.
Hey .. what a coincidence! I was just thinking of West Coast Dave when I came across some Southern Pacific stuff today, and then he shows up! Bummer about being in Iraq. Hope you keep safe.
Great URLs from Mike as usual. Loved the color B&O shot, and the witt of Alfred E.
Am I the only non-oracle here? Sheesh. Here's another humble submission from me today:
Big Shoulders - Photos by Jack Delano. Text by Mark Reuter
In November 1942, a young photographer from the Office of War Information in Washington, D.C., set out for Chicago. Armed with credentials from the FBI and a letter of introduction by the Association of American Railroads, Jack Delano was assigned to document railroad transportation during World War II by taking "photographs of Chicago as a railroad terminal, showing yards, tracks, handling the trains, hump-and-retarder operations, inspection and repair of trains, signal systems, roundhouses and repair shops."
He and his wife, Irene, rented an apartment in Chicago, and Delano began his assignment by taking photos of wartime crowds at Union Station. He then ventured into locomotive shops and freight yards to get a behind-the-scenes view of railroading that was rarely, if ever, seen by the public.
The weather was not cooperative. December 1942 was bitterly cold, and he spent many nights at Chicago & North Western's sprawling Proviso Yard in sub-zero temperatures. He carried his clunky equipment in his arms and on his back, and he rode with crews to document the exchange of traffic between eastern and western carriers. While getting off a boxcar, he bent his Graflex Speed Graphic when he slipped on packed snow.
<An inspector has blue-flagged cars to protect them from being moved to Illinois Central's South Water Street Freight Terminal in downtown Chicago>
Nearly all of the photographs he took were in black and white, but he also experimented with color shots. These were Kodak sheet-film transparences, mostly 4X5 inches. The color transparences were sent back to Washington along with the black-and-white film, where the OWI documentary project, it turned out, was in crisis and the photography section was soon to be dissolved.
< The humpmaster governs the speed at which the pusher locomotive shoves cars over the hump by using a five-notch controller that triggers lineside signals to the engineer>
Unpublished at the time, Delano's railroad photographs were transferred to the archives of the Library of Congress, along with more than 150,000 other images produced by photographers at OWI and the Farm Security Administration.
<Towerman R.W. Mayberry operates track turnouts (switches) and the retarders that brake the free-rolling cars as they are classified in the yard>
Some of Delano's black-and-white images eventually resurfaced in the 1970s, most notably in James E.Valle's "The Iron Horse at War and Don Ball Jr. and Rogers E.W. Whitaker's Decade of the Trains, the 1940s. But even those who had discovered Delano's work assumed that all of his railroad photographs were monochrome. Delano, who had relocated to Puerto Rico and was busy composing music and managing the island's public television station, did not point out the existence of the color images to the few persons who contacted him about his Chicago project.
<An employee demonstrates night signaling with a fusee. The up-and-down movement means "proceed." Delano took this timed exposure at Indiana Belt's yard at Calumet City, IL.>
Professional photographers in the 1940s disdained color as contrived, but Delano was years ahead of his time. He used color as information rather than ornamentation. Thus we can see the exhaustion of the welder with grit-dusted amber cheeks, and feel the snap of winter as steam spouts above the ice-blue yards of the Indiana Harbor Belt.
<Silhouetted against a bright sky, a tank car rolls down the hump track into the classification bowl of C&NW's Proviso Yard in April 1943.>
His color images are both matter-of-fact and stunning. He shot many of them at night, finding that the intensely saturated colors of Kodachrome film - warm reds, deep blues, and strong earth tones - bathed in the blackness of dimly lit backshops, lent a painterly vividness to his portraits.
<Crews clean the switch points of ice and snow on a frigid January 1943 day at the Harbor Belt's Blue Island Yard>
Delano's leap into photography stemmed from his art-student background and lifelong social activism. As a student traveling to Europe on a scholarship in 1935, he was awed by the paintings of Goya and Van Gogh, especially by what he termed "the sympathetic way they rendered ordinary people."
<Delano used the gloom of C&NW's roundhouse to dramatically frame the workworn eyes and soot-caked face of "L. Logan, of West Chicago, boilermaker.">
He bought his first camera while in Europe. "I began to think that perhaps in photographs I could show the same concern and understanding of ordinary people that I found so compelling in the work of the artists I admired so much."
ENCORE! Saturday - and - Photo Posting Day!
"Our" Place is CLOSED on Sundays!
Surely a bit more activity than expected and ONE HUGE SURPRISE visit!
Lars at 12:00 PM today: Many THANX for the spate of DOMES!
Doesn't seem THAT long ago when we were first treated to ‘em, but time flies when one is having sooooooooo much fun, eh
An ORACLE! Congrats to you - c'mon, share with us the ONE you missed! <grin>
Doug at 1:42 PM today: I NEVER enjoyed running - never, ever! I recall having to go through THAT ordeal at oh-dark-thirty in Officer's Candidate School (OCS) back when I was nearly 33 years old and very much set in my ways. Arrrrrrggggghhhh, those college kids could surely outrun me. But I did manage to maintain respectability by staying in the middle of the pack . . . <groan>
Congrats on the JOURNEYMAN accomplishment. Surely wudda figured YOU for ORACLE, but then, "it" happens, eh
So, you've FINALLY owned up to the Groan-o-Meter "thing," eh But ya know, this place surely wouldn't be the same without your brand of humor. So, hard as it is for me to say this - THANX for the funnies! <groan>
Pete at 3:06 PM ‘n 3:38 PM today: A full-fledged informative ‘n inclusive Post from the Wolfman!
Always enjoy having you aboard and it surely helps the flow to have the support you are so willing to give, especially on the weekend. But then, you DO haves lots to MAKE UP for, eh I mean, you've "boondoggled" away so many of these weekends! <geesh> One would think your in-laws are more important that your bar-mates!
Figured you'd also make it to ORACLE - congrats! Also, THANX for sharing the info regarding the ONE you missed. I would have NEVER guessed that particular question would have tripped you up. CINDY - that's almost a <tweetable> offense. I said ALMOST!
Many THANX for sharing those 4 Pix from Germany via your friend Alan!
Dave at 4:06 PM today: He LIVES! He returned from the LEGION OF THE LOST! It's West Coast S Dave, a long-time member and aficionado for all things Southern Pacific. Our "West Coast Connection" and "man of intrigue" has found his way back. back!
Iraq - of all places. My Gawd man, stay safe!
We have someone very close to us who is presently in Taji (about 30 km north of Baghdad) serving with the Army as a Physician's Assistant. Just got there about 2 weeks ago for a year's worth of it . . .
Anyway, surely very, very happy to hear from you and yes, you have a bunch of catching up ahead. With only 20 minute windows to use your ISP, my guess is that ain't gonna happen!
You definitely OWE us a bunch of "freebies" for leaving without so much as a "fair thee well." I'll withhold the <tweeting> ‘til I'm convinced that you are serious about resuming your place at the bar come June! Let's hope we're still operating . . .
For those who don't know, Dave was one of our very best weekend customers and always "sprung" for the drinks along with free lunch for one ‘n all. He's a member of the now-dormant Order of the Stools - Permanent classification along with a couple of prestigous "awards" for his writing expertise - Silver Throttle Awards.
Consider yourself REMOVED from the Legion of the Lost and I'll restore you to the B'day Watch List, etc.
Mike at 4:58 PM today: Not-so-silent Mike has emerged! Some actual "words" for Dave along with a spate of URLs . . . . way to go!
That's IT for me for this day - see y'all on Monday!
Hi Tom and everyone a round for the house.
Dave, great to see you! I'm shocked but not surprised. Get home safe dude.
http://www.coldwar.ru/churchill/5.jpg
B&O Royal Blue 1947
http://67.15.20.45/images/4/47_5314JerseyCity.jpg.72617.jpg
B&O Harpers Ferry 1948
http://67.15.20.45/images/b/BandO6190HarFy.jpg.37399.jpg
http://www.southeasternandchathamrailway.org.uk/Gifs/Secr7.jpg
http://www.ushistoricalarchive.com/photochroms/ppmsc/08354r.jpg
http://www.whitecliffscountry.org.uk/heritage/juliuscaesar.asp
Good Day all, remember me? Greetings from Talifar Iraq...Sorry for my abrupt October departure, 72 hours notice for a nine month deployment dosen't leave much play time...So today I managed to borrow a laptop for my recently alloted 20 minutes a week to catch up on my traffic, ISP over here for personal use is severly restricted and even then dicey...Enough of my goings on, rounds and eats on me for the next week, not counting tomorrow, gotta do something with all this pay collecting in the bank, otherwise the misses will spend it!!!.
Good to see Love Domes, Pete, Tom and some new faces keeping the bar humming along..Do I have some catching up to do or what??? Even my RR mags may or may not appear depending on if the locals target a mail convoy or they deemed a luxury item..
I regret not being up to date, and will most likely remain so until my return stateside in June, whereupon my regular presence will be restored. Great job on the Pennsy GG1, Geez, I have nothing to encore I think i'm overdue for a Boris hug!!!! I appreciated the oppertunity to briefly interact with the bar this afternoon...Great job from all and hope to be among you all soon.
Dave
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter