G’day Gents!
Another Monday and a start to the work week for many. Why not join us here at the bar for some freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee – pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery and of course a selection from our Menu Board of <light> and <traditional> breakfasts
Looks like the rains that suddenly disappeared yesterday, may reappear today. No matter, my outside work is done, at least until the next ton of leaves winds up on the ground! <ugh>
Some acknowledgments since my final Sunday Post:
Doug at 11:35 AM yesterday: Too bad about the Bears – and to drop one to a team with a rather dismal record. Go figger, eh So, how was the flick – we’ve got both #1 and #2 on video and enjoy Tim Allen any where, any place, any time. We’re planning on seeing Flags of our Fathers, fer sure, fer sure – will be on the lookout for the IRM locos and cars.
Received your Emails and replied – looks like we’re moving ahead nicely with the 2nd Annual “Our” Place Classic Trains Rendezvous in St. Louis! As always, good Pix selections!
LOVE the dogs!
Pete at 12:43 PM yesterday: Appreciate the endorsement for the way we do things ‘round here. It simply astounds me how someone – anyone – can get their knickers in a knot over a Thread or two that they DO NOT participate in and then have the audacity to criticize them! Takes all kinds, eh Problem with putting them at the bottom of the sea is the oceans don’t need anymore pollution!
Nice selections from Allan’s UK shots! Also received your Email – but NOT the ones that were “missed” during the “block out”!
James at 3:59 PM and 5:04 PM yesterday: LOVE RDCs – just LOVE ‘em! Never get tired looking at ‘em, but the best times are traveling in ‘em! Nicely done Milwaukee Road News! So, did I miss something – where’s the Little Joe
Lars at 4:37 PM yesterday: Always enjoy the book covers – keep ‘em coming and screw those who have nothing but negativity in their finger tips. We play to one another here and the option always exists for those who don’t enjoy what we do to “hit the bricks”!
Doug at 5:17 AM today: Always a treat to have YOU begin our day here at the bar – seems rather “normal” and as it “should be!” Just when I think that “everything” has been covered on this Thread when it comes to Classic Trains, you come up with another great series (even if it is a “one parter”!) – Chicago Freight Subway! Never heard of such a thing – but, why not Makes perfect sense. Good show!
SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: This Friday and Saturday we will be encouraging Posts of any railroad related information that has a connection to the efforts of our respective Armed Forces during any of the wars to date. We celebrate Veteran’s Day in the U.S. – Remembrance Day in Canada and Armistice Day in the UK. So, let’s get on board with this! ENCORES! are encouraged!! Keep ‘em simple – stay away from the emotional ‘n let’s just see what we can come up with! Thanx.
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Cloudy here today but much warmer than the past few mornings. Watched very little football Saturday and yesterday as yard work called. Leaves, leaves nothing but !@#$ leaves.
Rant for the day – I don’t know how you feel but I have had it with political ads. Local TV stations cover four states so we get ads from WV, VA, KY, and OH – ‘enuff, says I!
Lots to acknowledge and a few comments. So here goes. In no order, believe me.
Thanks to all for UK-related material. It’s always a treat to read about folk’s travels, different routes, etc.
Wow! We got a volunteer for the birthday list! I may be out of recovery in time for the next darts tournament.
Mike sent lots of links.
You can see what I like about Jack Delano’s pictures. The shot of the MILW obs. At CUS is one of the best I have ever seen.
The PRR shot of “Allegheny County” is a nice one as well. Gives the viewer a feel for the PRR in the postwar years; fascinating operation as long as one didn’t look “behind the curtain.”
The picture of B&O 1449 may be the train du jour on the Chicago-Miami route (i.e. South Wind, Floridian). A typical consist from that time period which made trackside trips in Nashville obligatory.
Also check out the interesting paint scheme of the lead F unit on the ATSF train.
Rob is back with material from Hamilton.
We hope Doug is feeling better; you’ll need a brace (no, Boris let’s make it a bracer) to lift your tax tickets.
Fine choice of movies. Strategic Air Command featuring B36s, KC97s, and the then new B47. The Blue Max was actually filmed with members of the Mentor Flying Circus. You read a bit about them in our darts coverage.
Barndad – Cider? We used to do that sort of thing in New Hampshire; saved some of it for later; it got right sharp come January. Also, many thanks for Chicago-related material.
Pete – Truly enjoyed the shots of the 4-6-0s from God’s wonderful Railway.
Lars’s bookmobile showed up. I enjoy seeing these covers as they serve as a checklist for materials in my collection. The Monon book is a good one.
Well, that’s about all from here for now. Must attend the hun’s parent/teacher conference(s) this p.m.
Work safe
P.S. We got our poppies when we made our biweekly trip to the Temple of Commerce (i.e. Wal Mart). Had ancestors in AEF and BEF.
Good morning Tom and fellow visitors.
Ruth – can I have an afternoon tea whilst I mull over the posts. I was on yard work detaisl last couple of day too Miner - plenty of leaves as you say
Couple of points on my scenic UK tour to respond to. BK – Inverness – yes, a small city, but the capital of the Highlands – good spot for travelling as 4 scenic rail routes radiate from here. North to Thurso (for the Orkneys), and west to Kyle of Lochalsh for the Isle of Skye – these routes pass through wilderness country not unfamiliar to North Americans but unusual for the British Isles, the mainline south to Perth runs through great countryside too. Heading East to Aberdeen takes you through a more lush landscape of rolling countryside – but this is Whisky country so you run past the river Spey and many distilleries are beside the line.
Pete – you make a good suggestion about taking a route via The Tay and Forth Bridges. The Inverness – London train runs via Stirling so these are missed on the route of The Highland Chieftain, but the advantage that train has is the high quality GNER service provided (one of the only trains in Britain where if your diet permits it and your bank manager allows you, you can take 2 meals in one day on the same train ie breakfast and lunch heading south or lunch and dinner heading north). But this could be overcome by taking the Inverness to Aberdeen Scotrail service and then taking the GNER train from there (The Northern Lights) south towards London – that way I think you get the bridges from the comfort of a high quality train and a nice long rise with no changes.
Last time I was in Edinburgh I took the local train to North Queensferry where you can get off and walk down to the river side underneath the Forth bridge approach lines (about 5 minute walk) – absolutely fantastic vantage point to view the Forth Bridge. Then caught train over to south side and walked down for a good look from there too. That was why I was interested in the Quebec Bridge recently - very similar design and look (I'm repeating myself - better not get trashed for that...)
Interesting to read those stories about Rugby – glad you enjoyed that link – I chanced upon it but was pleased that I had. Look forward to reading your Bluebell notes in the fullness of time.
Tom – were you asking about UK Brake Vans and what they were, or have I misunderstood you? Brake Van is the equivalent of a Caboose as far as I know but maybe the Caboose has a slightly different purpose so I await to learn more. In UK, old trains did not have brakes on the wagons (apart from hand brakes for use in sidings) so the only other brake force than that exerted by the loco was provided by the guy at the rear of the train in the Brake Van – with a hand brake that he regulated to keep the wagons from bunching on the down hill so that the couplings did not snatch on the switch to uphill – when the risk of a broken coupling (and a potential runaway) might occur.
Lars – remembrance day theme – this reminds me of my recent Halifax trip – VIA staff were telling us how last year they ran a big consist for veterans to relive the Halifax Montréal Journey – this year I believe they were running the same for war brides – to celebrate the 60th anniversary since the arrival of war bride ships in Canada from Europe – did you know more about this Tom by any chance, given you keep an eye on Canadian matters? Rob you may have info from Canadian media perhaps? VIA staff made mention of how proud they were to serve on that train and how many people from communities along the line turned out to greet this special Ocean Train consist at all times of day and night. Mind you I hope the rude guy we had in the dining car was not on that shift - I doubt a vet would consider they fought the war just to get rude service back home 60 years later!!
Eric – yes the Narvik run was overnight in June – we had couchettes and I did the run with my father who was working in Uppsala for 6 months at the time. Good run – you have a lot of forest in Sweden, and a lot of lakes (and a lot of Mosquitos)! In Narvik we were in the land of the Midnight sun and I had never experienced that before – strange because I assumed before the trip (don’t know why) that at midnight it would at least get like dusk – but no – the sun is way above the horizon of course and just like full daylight – fascinating!
James – enjoyed your posts on the box cabs – this sort of thing is really informative for those of us whose knowledge of north American railroading is somewhat basic – thank you - keep it rolling.
I note some of the early RPO posting creeping in ahead of the big day too!
DL
PS – you know how when people are in a bar talking about things they enjoy (eg sports for example) there may be some people in another location talking about exactly the same thing – or those people may go on to another place, meet some other people and talk about that they talked about earlier. Pretty shocking eh? must come as a surprise to think human beings behave like that (ie people all over the planet mentioning the same sorts of things via media they have available to themselves). I guess you know what I’m referring to here…..does anyone complain, I guess some do?
Good Morning Captain Tom and fellow sophisticates!
Ruth, a steaming hot mug of Joe with just a "splash" to make it interesting if you please! Today, I will stick with some pastries from Mentor Village Bakery. Keep the change young lady and here is an extra amount for a round when a crowd gathers.
A mix of sun and clouds with temperatures flirting with zero (C) and of course the flurries are ever present. No snow cover to speak of, although from time to time we will get a bit, but nothing to speak of as the melting occurs rather quickly. Petrol here have been pretty stable at 92.9 per litre. And, we do not have a Wal-Mart anywhere near us!
Most enjoyable Encores on Saturday along with some fine photos extending through Sunday. Good show - and we like your choice of motion pictures for the Emporium!
Most difficult for me to remain removed from the "flap" over on your "other thread." After all, I am part of the reason we were able to flush out this particular bottom feeder (excellent descriptor!). However, I will keep my comments as civil as possible and practice a bit of brevity as well.
To all who see these comments, Greetings! The information exchanged here and on Captain Tom's "other thread" is intended for those who are of good cheer, decency of purpose and health of mind. (Sir Nick and a couple of others have had to get a waiver for that latter category!! ) If yours is to take and not give, to destroy rather than build, or to spread negativisms - GET LOST!
If each one of us would take the time to send an e-mail to the Forum Manager to express our disdain for this ridiculous ratings system, perhaps Kalmbach would rescind it.
Now, I do feel better!
We are having a rather difficult time trying to come up with something appropriate for tomorrow and the RPO Theme for the Day. Not an easy find, if one is preparing narrative or a pictorial display. Urls abound, of course. However, I have faith in my earstwhile assistant and am sure that she will not let us down! <grin> Way to go, Lydia!
As noted by DL-UK in his most recent posting, appears as if we have indeed jumped the gun with the RPO material - enjoyable stuff, but given the sparcity of the written word and "free" photos, perhaps better held 'til the Theme Day. Is that not why we have them No backdoor slam intended for Sir Doug - as every effort coming from his Illinois compound is well done and most educational (except the jokes! Awful, simply awful! <grin>) Timing though is everything when it comes to ensuring a particular event is successful. At least that is my
Outstanding turnout for the November Contest! I do not recall witnessing such a high percentage of our regular crew with such a quick response. Well done, Gentlemen!
We will do our part to come up with something appropriate for Remembrance Day - Veterans Day - Armistice Day. Recalling last year, it was a resounding success, with Captain Tom going into overtime and perhaps overload mode! Unfortunately and sadly as well, when was the most current railroad advertisement where the military was featured That is not a trick question, but an upfront one. I believe they left the scene either shortly before or during the Korean War. So, that leaves us with the WWI and WWII era for our tributes when it comes to a link with the railroads.
Let us NOT forgot all of our vets who are languishing away in hospitals and other institutions, people who still have their lives, but are hurt in so many, many ways. And please - let us not wish one another a "happy" this or that. If anything gets to me it is those people who think the appropriate greeting on days like these involves "happy." I do not subscribe to that at all and recall letting more than a few know my feelings when some were throwing around the "Happy Memorial Day" nonsense. I know that happened over at the Coffee Shop some time back (perhaps still does) and it was all I needed to reduce my infrequent appearances to zero. I feel THAT strongly about it!
Appears as if I have taken a passing siding and need to get re-routed! Sorry, Gentlemen, just one of those days.
So, tell me Captain Tom, have dates been set for the Rendezvous
Ruth, a refill on the coffee and hold the "splash"!
BK in Alberta, Canada's beautiful high mountain country!
G'day Gents!
What a day of gloom here in mid-continent USA - rather constant rain, not pouring, but hasn't let up for the past several hours.
Ruth, take a break, I'll tend to things for the next hour or so . . . .
Visits from CM3 - DL 'n BK to help things along on this Monday. Much appreciated, guyz!
CM3 at 8:42 AM today: Still chuckling over that reference to Wal-Mart - Temple of Commerce, indeed!
I too took a "pass" from afternoon TV and skipped the Lambs (aka: Rams) loss to the Chiefs of KCity (my favorite in the AFC for years). Didn't miss much so I've read in the morning's paper (aka: bird cage liner!).
Yes, we now are on a "streak" of sorts, with you volunteering for the "Reporter" assignment and now Doug for the B'day Watch List Whip. Really helps alot and nice of you guys . . .
I recall when the movie "Strategic Air Command" first came out - lots of hype before the release. Good flick for the times and of course, real life Air Force officer Jimmy Stewart "done good."
DL at 11:30 AM today: First, check out this URL from VIA Rail's web site:
http://www.viarail.ca/cgi-bin/AffichageWebComm?Commande=select&langue=en&IDX=2&pk_webcomm=721
The timing of your comments couldn't have been better! Read the article and you'll "get it!" And no, I hadn't been keeping up with this. Last year VIA did a PP job of advance notice regarding the Remembrance Day train, especially photographs. Terrible is a polite way to put it. Even my "contacts" were unable to provide anything of substance to help out. This year, those "contacts" are gone . . . so, THANX for bringing up the matter.
Cabooses (or cabeese, as some like to input) in the U.S. - Vans in the UK - yes, I knew that. Just never had heard the vans referred to as "brake vans" - first time for everything! Sorta threw me outta balance, if yaknowwhutImean
Between you and Pete, we're going to require at least a month in the UK to take in all of the "recommended" rail routes and accomodations being bandied about (aboot, for Rob!). Keep 'em coming, really enjoying this and of course, everything helps when it comes time to put the package together.
Loved your post script commentary! Right on, brother - right on!
BK at 12:03 PM today: So, why not let us know how you REALLY feel, eh <grin> Always appreciate having your input and I find that your assessments are rather parallel to my own - throw Lars in there too! The Three Horsemen live!
Thanx for the commentary on Remembrance Day - Veterans Day & Armistice Day. Really sums it up quite well insofar as ALL of our vets are concerned and not just those connected with the world wars. Interestingly, Mike and I have been chatting about this via Email . . . .
Anyway, this all began last year when I came across a bunch of ads from the RRs in one of my collections. They were featuring the trains carrying the soldiers, sailors and airmen to the points of embarkation. Seemed like a good thing to feature - it worked well, so we're gonna try again.
Bottom Feeder "flap" here and on "my other Thread" - RIP. However, I wholeheartedly concur that each of us should communicate our thoughts to the Forum Manager at Kalmbach about this idiotic ratings system. That would be a step in the right direction to remove an irritant not at all necessary on the Forums. Good idea!
Also, your comments regarding the "happy" in greetings pertaining to days of remembrance brought to mind my own experiences at the Coffee Shop over a year or more back. Seems I irritated some of the "pillars" over there when I mentioned my feelings on the subject. Got the cold shoulder from then on from one or more - also was instrumental in my decision to not return. Interesting similiarties . . .
Okay Gents - Juneau is "bugging" me to get outside - and he's been a real good guy today in trying to get out between the rain drops.
And yes, the date for the 2nd Annual "Our" Place Classic Trains Rendezvous in St. Louis will occur between May 17th (Thursday) and 20th (Sunday) 2007. Anyone of our regulars interested in attending may communicate with me via Email . . .
Later!
Tom
G-day Tom and all present!
Well I am glad to see so many liked the Milwaukee Road News!
Tom- The little Joe alone has a whol history to itself so, I will be adding it to another Sunday Milwaukee News. Unfortunately I will not be here next Sunday So I will not be adding anything new. BTW: Since I hadn't seen any RDCs for quite sometime, and knowing how much some of you guys like them (including me) I decided that it was time.
I am sorry to say that I will not be here Friday or Saturday for the war related railroad pics and info. I would love to do so.
Barndad- Well.. So how high or low does the Groaner meter go? Some of your jokes are stupid funny and others are just down right funny. So I will be looking forward to more railroad info and jokes.
DL-UK- Glad you injoyed the info. Now you also should know that the railroad I am talking about is no longer around. It was bought up by the Soo Line Railroad in 1981. Electrification ceased in 1974 and the electrics were no more. Some of the locomotives though were still around in there original paint scheme in 1990. There are also a couple of MP15ACs still running around in Minneapolis, St. Paul in there original orange and black Milwaukee road paint.
More Milwaukee Road News every Sunday except for this Sunday.
Happy railroad
James
Hi Tom and all.
A pint of Holden's Bitter please LEON.
Running late today the puter is playing up, the server keeps showing an error and closing the window, I think I have upset it by swearing at it.
Anyway I hope I dont lose this,enjoyed the Sunday photo day with JAMES pics and the Milwaukee Box-cabs post. On one of my first visits overhere I saw what I believe was a Missouri & Arkansas freight at Carthage Mo, One of the locos was #4001 if I remember right, I must admit I know nothing about this line so any info would be great.
I suppose there must have been a limit on the number of Box-car helpers allowed on one train to stop overloading the power supply.
LARS Many thanks for the great set of book covers. On the British Railway Goods Wagons cover the locomotive is a General Motors class 59/1. At the time they were operated by ARC roadstone. The locos are named after villages near the main quarry near Frome Somerset.
DOUG Thanks for the kind words on the pics. The post on the Chicago Frieght Subway as left me wanting to know more about it. I dont suppose it is still working today.What a great way to move goods around a big city.I know the Post office in London had a underground railway to move mail between some major sorting offices but this is the first time I have heard of a subway on this scale for moving goods.Many thanks for sharing.
CM3 Glad you liked the GWR pics, Alan grew up in their part of the world, where I was in mainly LMS territory, we did see some on the old Great Central line. It is amazing that the GWR did not have anything bigger than 4-6-0s for passenger work, apart from solitary Pacific,The Great Bear, which was the the first Pacific in the UK.
I can well believe the Mentor Flying Circus done the scenes in The Blue Max after seeing them in action.
DL. More great ideas for TOM's British trip and good reply on the Brake Vans. Many a fledgeling preservation railway started by giving rides on a short piece of track in a brake van hauled by an industrial tank loco. As you say, there was quite a lot of skill and co-operation between the loco crew and the goods guard when working an unfitted frieght train.
I see that a Virgin Pedelino has set a new record for the Glasgow to London run.Non -Stop in 3 hours 55 min.for the 401 miles, the special had a full load of passengers with the fares going to charity. To get a non stop run must have taken a lot of organising on such a busy line and there could not have been much track work going on. Still to average over 100 MPH on the west coast route is quite an achievement.
Still cant get the Bluebell pics off the disc and into the album, but as soon as I do( or the bride sorts it for me ) I will post them.
TOM I must totally agree with you and BK about using "happy" in conjunction with Rememberence Days.
Many thanks for the link to VIA Rail War Brides link, I think VIA deserve a for their thoughfullness.
I think with a fairly early start from Inverness, a trip out to the Forth Bridge from Edinburgh is easily do able, if not I know a good pub near Waverley station.
Talking of pubs I,ll have another please LEON.
Well good evening one and all,apologies for absense from pix yesterday but after 6 musical outings in 8 days followed by our national rugby team getting an unholy hammering by New Zealand,I was rather tired and emotional.
Leon-beers all around please-knock the caps off some Buds and stick `em in the plate-warming cabinet for DL whilst you are about it (Not a bad brew,but I prefer Czech BUDVAR .......)
So-in reverse order to start and becoming increasingly random:-
TOM-JO`s-How lucky we are to have been visited by someone who obviously knows all there is to know about everything-and absorbed it all at a single sitting..........I am humbly honoured to walk in his shadow ...........
Very nice spread on the ICE`s ....Entirely approve the suggestion R.E next weekend,have a number of relevant pix to put up,including some of the trench rail systems during the great war
An extra note or two on brake vans:-As DL has pointed out they are roughly analogous with cabeese,but without the office/dormitory function. Again as pointed out by DL,they provided an independant braking and control point from the loco,which ensured that in a break-away,both halves of the train would be manned and under some degree of control.
Loose coupled freights were generally required to stop at the top of a gradient to `pin down wagon brakes`-I.E,a certain number of wagons would have their hand brakes applied in order to add extra `drag`
A note on couplings,over here,the standard form for most of our railway history has been the `3-link` -at the end of each wagon is a hook,the shaft of which is drilled out to accept the end of 3 links of chain,this chain is simply dropped over the hook of the adjacent wagon (thus,`loose-coupled`,since there is considerable slack between vehicles ) For passenger cars,a variation called the `screw-link` was developed-with this,the centre link was replaced by a length of threaded rod with a tommy-bar so the vehicles could be coupled as closely as possible ,eliminating `snatch` For use in docks and industrial areas with excessive curvature a 5 link chain was sometimes fitted to locos Where a mixture of fitted & unfitted wagons (vacuum brake) were used together ,the fitted vehicles would always be marshalled next to the engine
Hope this either helps or is of interest
BK-entirely agree-Vets day should be a commemoration,not a celebration........
As to my state of mind and decency of purpose-well I guess you had better check with my parole officer or one of the social workers for the official `party line`
LYDIA-you asked about the menu`s a few days back--until I became a house-husband/parent,I used to put out that sort of menu for 40+ covers every night single handed ( I had a couple of waitresses to run the plates out and feed the dishwasher ) I still do half a dozen or so $20-a-plate mixed hot and cold buffets for 100-150 people every year,just to keep my hand in---It`s quite a demanding job,but the buzz you get from seeing all those empty plates and big smiles afterwards makes it work
DL- That Scots itinery looks very tempting-Missisnick has been expressing a desire to visit the land of her father for some time now-that might just be the way to go...........
CM3-Howdy !!!!
DOUG-I bow to no man in my appreciation of your jokes -a number of them have been bookmarked to fill unexpected gaps in the shows when someone breaks a string or has a cable die on them (my own repetoire enjoys a VERY limited audience )..............A busy few days from you Sir !! excellent piece on the freight subway,also the Chicago trolleys--fox & hounds (contentious over here ) ,LEGO beer and train driving at Butterley all excellent value-nice one. Like PETE,I have ridden that train-well worth a visit,sure I have some pix somewhere-it was about 15+ years ago
General note-the passenger cars in that film are all the Mk1`s mentioned previously.
JAMES-Most impressive piece about the boxcabs-something I knew nothing about,thanks,nice one ......Read your response on the other thread -You made an eloquent case,couldn`t have put it better myself-top marks ...........---You also make a good case for cork roadbed,from that and your pix I think I will try it for my next project ( a portable model of Kapuskasing on the O.N.R,with storage at each end of the station in the traditional Brit style) Have bookmarked both the RDC & general URL sites to enjoy at my leisure--good work mate,you`re an asset to the company
LARS-Another fine selection from the cyber-library-the Hendry volume is well worth the cover price for the info within
PETE-Doesn`t that Hall look a treat ,I`m sure that rake of Mk2`s was down at Fishguard with the Castle the other week--got some companion shots to go with the Austerity-saving for Vets w/end.....That Kerr-Stuart has a definate family likeness with `Edward Thomas` (K/S Tattoo class,ex Corris now Tal-Y-Lyn,for everyone elses benefit...).....Just don`t mention the bloody rugby O.K------
ERIC-Greetings to our resident Arizona Viking
ROB-Well done mate !!! -I used to have weeks like that on occaision-after a certain point,everything becomes dream like and unreal -Enjoyed the encore piece,all the mor so for finding out that the replacement buses are aiming for a greener alternative........Take a handful of poppies for me please mate-I doubt that there is a man here whose life has not been shaped in one way or another by events in Europe during the last century............
MIKE-Top form as ever-you must spend your every waking hour plugged into that machine of yours-exceptional diligance-----and your reward is......
Good evening Leon and friends. I'll have my usual bottomless draught tonight. This might be my last post until getting situated at the new digs .. so make it two, and two rounds for the house as well. Bought another table tonight to fill the extra eating room we're going to get, and a garage door opener, as I fully expect to be too crippled on Sunday to lift the door myself. Great showing of patrons this fine November day, with visits from CM3, DL, BK, James, Pete, Nick, and of course our peerless leader Tom! Who says this thread is in trouble? Doesn't look like it to me. (Loved your post Nick!
Just for the record ... I did not "sneak" in any premature RPO material. I just happened to have a lead-in ENCORE of the subject on hand, which I used appropriately on Saturday. James, I don't know the limitations of the groan-o-meter. Just don't stand too close to it if you see me tell a joke. Glad you liked the Chicago Freight Subway piece from this morning, folks. And now to grant Pete's wish to learn more ... here is part II!
Chicago Freight Subway – Traction Heritage - best of the 1912 convention
Since the tunnel is operated as an elaborate loop system, the scheme of protection have been made to cover the points of intersection and to serve for head-end and rear-end protection on any given line. Inspection of the accompanying map shows that these intersections average about one block apart, and any blocking system which would place signals 150 ft. from both sides of a junction would not only serve to protect the crossing but could be made to serve as a continuous block. The system that was installed finally was designed by S.S. Stolp, electrical engineer for the tunnel company, assisted by W.J. Kenyon, formerly vice-president. It consists essentially of a trolley contractor connected to light circuits so that front and rear-end protection is obtained as well as protection against trains approaching on an intersecting track. The signals and contactors are installed about 150 ft. from each junction point.
Arrangement of hoppers for delivering coal direct to the subway from railroad cars.
The trolley contactor consists of a cast-iron box mounted upon the trolley wire and filled with an insulating medium such as Vaseline. A transverse shaft extends through the box, being journaled inside its side walls. The arms hang down from the ends of the shaft in the path of the trolley wheel or harp. This shaft carries a circuit-closing member inside the box which operates a relay. When the extending arms are struck by the trolley wheel the circuit leading to the relay from the trolley wire is closed. He rail connection of the contactor also has its side contact members working in oil and is so constructed as to be unaffected by water or impacts it receives from passing car wheels. The working of the relay is so delicate that the slightest difference in the time between the two trains closing the contactor gives the first train the clear signal and the other the danger signal. The contactor is located a short distance outside the block, and the signal just precedes it. When a train leaves the 300-ft. block it clears all signals through the off contactor on the rail. This same signal system is employed in protecting trains on the approaches to the tunnel under the Chicago River, where 3 per cent grades were used.
Signal lamps and trolley contactor
Each train is in charge of a single motorman, and assistants are placed at the originating and delivery stations. Trains are made up at eleven assembly points by regular switching crews, each of which consists of two men.
Motorman receiving orders by telephone
The assembly points are situated at street intersections with by-passes in the four quadrants. Their location is such that the switching crew has a certain number of shippers and freight houses from which to receive and deliver all cars. Trains are made up of eight and ten cars each, each assembly point being permanently located and under the protection of the signal system, and this makes switching on the main lines safe so far as approaching trains are concerned. When a local train approaches one of these assembly points it has either loads or empties to deliver to some shipper or freight house, depending on its direction.
Typical locomotive
The entire system is divided into four districts, and all the cars to be delivered to any particular district are assembled in one train to be set out at the different delivery points indicated by the billing. Bills of lading are made out by the shipper or are received at the freight houses of the steam railroads, and from these copies are made for the company’s crews and records. In addition to the steam roads and mercantile establishments served, freight is received and delivered at four public receiving stations which aid in relieving the congested districts on the surface.
Typical merchandise car
Freight is loaded at the level of the subway at three points, where it is delivered to the cars by a conveyor, but in all other cases an electric elevator has been installed which raises the cars to the basement level, where they are loaded and returned to the tunnel level.
A number of buildings have been equipped with ash chutes which tap the top of the tunnel so that ashes may be delivered directly into the cars. Usually the ash chute is accompanied by a coal-handling plant, which includes a well into which the coal may be unloaded from the cars on the by-pass or siding. From the well it is elevated by bucket conveyors to the bunkers over the boilers.
Head-house to shaft used during construction
The rolling stock equipment includes 3000 cars of 8000-lb. capacity each and 117 electric locomotives. The freight cars consist of two different types, one for handling coal, excavation and ash, and the other for ordinary freight. There are also five observation cars. All cars at 10 ft. 6 in. in length by 4 ft. wide, and the bodies are mounted on two diminutive trucks. A typical merchandise car, made by the Kilbourne & Jacobs Manufacturing Company, is shown on one of the views on Plate XLIII. The locomotive equipment includes four types of typical mine motors, twenty-six General Electric 50-hp motors, forty-three Jeffrey 25-hp
Tom – light breakfast for me today.
Tom – you mean you were only thinking of a month in the UK? I know you guys have shorter holidays from work but…we haven’t even got to factoring in a trip on the new London Channel Tunnel high speed link yet. Seriously though, if you can manage to sort out the company the four legged friend needs, and you do ever make it – would be great to link up over a beer.
Thanks for the VIA link – timing was pretty lucky eh – they should be arriving today – maybe the local Halifax press will have some pictures?
Pete – it turns out there is some Virgin media spin on this Glasgow to London so called record run (not that it was not important) – like you I heard the press reports but then I read an article in Rail magazine by timetable expert Barry Doe (http://www.barrydoe.plus.com/) where he makes it clear the record is still held by the APT (http://www.apt-p.com/aptindex.htm)
I’ll dig out his article and clarify what he was saying – but he (Mr Doe) is a stickler for accuracy – wheras the Virgin organisation could put the spin doctoring arts of the most dubious politician in the shade, I’m afraid to say. I’ll report back.
Doug – RPO warm up – it was appreciated my friend – helps focus the mind on the big day and my UK contribution!
Eric – coupling slack – yes I’m sure there was. In fact lost in the much more high profile history of the savage UK rail closures recommended in the 1960s Beeching Report (The Re-shaping of British Railways) was key points Beeching made about freight which was to phase out all these unfitted slow moving freight trains which were choking up the network, in favour of faster freight that could be profitable, and of course to clear the lines for regular high speed inter city passenger operations. There are pros and cons of all this which I’m not going into here – but that was the objective of large sections of his report.
Nick – yes, like you I enjoyed those ICE pages too – I’ve travelled by train quite a bit in Germany but not been on an ICE – I enjoyed reading those posts. Good of you to add to my brake van (guard’s van) info – I learned some more there too. Scotland Trip with missisnick – yes I recommend the sleeper and there are some great advance purchase on-line fares you can get esp. if you avoid Friday / Sunday nights – I’ve been to Inverness on the sleeper for an all in price (fare and berth) for 19 quid. Let me know if you want more info and I’ll post a ‘how to get those fares guide’ to compliment the sleeper route guide I’ve previously posted.
Reminds me of last year we had been travelling to Durham on GNER and relying on Dining car for our evening meal – a rather lazy (and rude) steward did not want to serve more meals so told us when we boarded at Grantham that they were full (even though we could see empty tables). My partner was very annoyed about this and wrote to complain. Of course the first reply was the usual fob off, second reply at least addressed the issue, by third reply they must have decided they needed to offer us some sort of compensation – the offer – 2 complimentary tickets on a GNER service of our choice. Well – if they thought we would go for a short trip down to London for the day they had not reckoned with my timetable reading skills. We asked for, and to their immense credit they happily supplied, tickets London – Inverness and return on their longest scheduled train The Highland Chieftain – 1st class as well. A great journey – 8 hours each way by Inter City 125, north bound run with lunch between Peterborough and York, evening meal between Stirling and Slochd Summit on the Highland Mainline with the evening sun lighting up the heather clad moorland.
RPO’s later on
Good morning Tom and friends! I'll have a few light breakfasts as I prepare for my final day at work this week (and then the real work begins). Sad to report to Eric that the Illinois Tunnel system is no more. Most all of the equipment was sold as scrap years ago, and it was lucky that the IRM managed to pull out some of the cars before they sealed off the last elevator, which was located near the Field Museum. I posted an article on this a while back, and have shown pictures from time to time. Sounds like good ENCORE material to me! You are also quite correct to agree with Mr Abby. He's always right! Good to see a post from DL this A.M., and even better to see that we're going to see a Brit-RPO post today!
Since the subject of dogs has been discussed here from time to time, I thought ya'll might be interested in the following:
Collie + Lhasa ApsoCollapso, a dog that folds up for easy transport
Spitz + Chow ChowSpitz-Chow, a dog that throws up a lot
Pointer + SetterPoinsetter, a traditional Christmas pet
Great Pyrenees + DachshundPyradachs, a puzzling breed
Pekingnese + Lhasa ApsoPeekasso, an abstract dog
Irish Water Spaniel + English Springer SpanielIrish Springer, a dog fresh and clean as a whistle
Labrador Retriever + Curly Coated RetrieverLab Coat Retriever, the choice of research scientists
Newfoundland + Basset HoundNewfound Asset Hound, a dog for financial advisors
Terrier + BulldogTerribull, a dog that makes awful mistakes
Bloodhound + LabradorBlabador, a dog that barks incessantly
Malamute + Pointer Moot Point, owned by... oh, well, it doesn't matter anyway
Collie + Malamute Commute, a dog that travels to work
Bull Terrier + ShitzuOh, never mind...
Now arriving on Track #2
RR THEME for the DAY - Number Seven
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds and images from other sources.
Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad #1926, a heavyweight RPO preserved at the Illinois Railway Museum.
In the United States a railway post office, commonly abbreviated as RPO, was a railroad car that was normally operated in passenger service as a means to sort mail en route, in order to speed delivery. The RPO was staffed by highly trained Railway Mail Service postal clerks, and was off-limits to the passengers on the train.
Many American railroads (the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway being just one) earned substantial revenues through contracts with the Post Office to carry mail aboard high-speed passenger trains. In fact, a number of companies maintained passenger routes where the financial losses from moving people were more than offset by transporting the mail.
The first-ever sorting of mail en route occurred in the United Kingdom with the introduction of the Travelling Post Office in 1838. In the United States it was introduced on July 28, 1862 using converted baggage cars on the Hannibal and St. Joseph Railroad (which also delivered the first letter to the Pony Express). Purpose built RPO cars entered service on this line a few weeks after the service was initiated. Its purpose was to separate mail for connection with a westbound stage departing soon after the train's arrival at St. Joseph. This service lasted approximately one year. The first permanent Railway Post Office route was established on August 28, 1864 between Chicago, Illinois, and Clinton, Iowa. This service is distinguished from the 1862 operation because mail was sorted to and received from each post office along the route, as well as major post offices beyond the route's end-points.
Virginia and Truckee Railroad #13, a "shorty" RPO photographed at Reno, Nevada on August 3, 1935.
By the 1880s, railway post office routes were operating on the vast majority of passenger trains in the United States. A complex network of interconnected routes allowed mail to be transported and delivered in a remarkably short time. Railway mail clerks were subjected to stringent training and ongoing testing of details regarding their handling of the mail. On a given RPO route, each clerk was expected to know not only the post offices and rail junctions along the route, but also specific local delivery details within each of the larger cities served by the route. Periodic testing demanded both accuracy and speed in sorting mail, and a clerk scoring only 96% accuracy would likely receive a warning from the Railway Mail Service division superintendent.
In the United States, RPO cars (also known as mail cars or postal cars) were equipped and staffed to handle most back-end postal processing functions. First class mail, magazines and newspapers were all sorted, cancelled when necessary, and dispatched to post offices in towns along the route. Registered mail was also handled, and the foreman in charge was required to carry a regulation pistol while on duty to discourage theft of the mail.
The interior of an RPO on display at the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
An interior view of Great Northern Railway #42, a restored RPO on display at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento.
A close-up view of the mail hook on CB&Q #1926.
A view of the mail hook on GN #42, along with a track side mail crane complete with mail bag.An interesting feature of most RPO cars was a hook that could be used to snatch a leather or canvas pouch of outgoing mail hanging on a track-side mail crane at smaller towns where the train did not stop. With the train often operating at 70 miles per hour or faster, a postal clerk would have a pouch of mail ready to be dispatched as the train passed the station. In a coordinated movement, the catcher arm was swung out to catch the hanging mail pouch while the clerk stood in the open doorway. As the inbound pouch slammed into the catcher arm, the clerk kicked the outbound mail pouch out of the car, making certain to kick it far enough that it was not sucked back under the speeding train. An employee of the local post office would retrieve the pouch and deliver it to the post office.
Union Pacific Railroad #2242, a smooth-sided baggage-RPO car, passes through Denver, Colorado on June 5, 1949.
Most RPO cars had a mail slot on the side of the car, so that mail could actually be deposited in the car, much
Mid-continent USA is fog-bound and damp – verrrrrrrrrrry damp. “They” say we’ll begin a clearing along with a warm-up before day’s end. Will be heading off to the voting precinct this AM with aspirations to change the world we live in! But alas, it will undoubtedly result in same-ole, same-ole – but here’s my take on all of it. If one doesn’t vote, then one has no standing when it comes to gripes, complaints ‘n gnashing of teeth. In other words, “No vote, no b***h (rhymes with “itch”!!)
Ohhhhhhhh boy, is Juneau the Wonder Husky and FIRST MASCOT of “Our” Place in a snit this day. Seems that one of our Permanent Stool members (from the dormant Order of the Stools) has single-handedly failed to recognize the magnificent breed of dog in this morning’s rundown of those very creative “mixes.” Siberians are ABOVE all of that, OF COURSE, but still – no mention really is a low blow. Doug, watch your back (as in posterior), Mate!
Certainly appears as if this Tavern by the Tracks has become far more the evening into late evening place rather than during daylight. That’s fine with me – just as long as my favorite sound resounds throughout his old building – KaChing, KaChing along with the muffled bass from Herr Wurltizter – ahhhhhhh, music to my ears! (no pun intended )
An observation – surely appears to me that NO ONE will win the NOVEMBER CONTEST. These Pages are moving swiftly toward the 8,500 mark! <geesh> Who wuddathunkit
To the acknowledgments:
James at 7:49 PM yesterday: We’ll be looking forward to the installment on the “Little Joe.” Also, appreciate the heads up on your planned absence this weekend. Guys just have to do what guys have to do!
Pete at 8:17 PM yesterday: Wondering aloud – are you getting my Emails Still haven’t received those “catch ups.” Anyway, good to see ya stop by and always enjoy the conversation.
Like the thought of the London to Inverness run – still haven’t locked in on whether to take a sleeper or do the entire thing – both ways in daylight. The latter has great appeal, but then again, so does turning in aboard rolling steel wheels on steel rails! I’m leaning towards the night run from London to Inverness – then a different route on the return in daylight. Get the best of both worlds, so to speak. Definitely have to ‘crank in’ those famous bridges, fer sure, fer sure!
Nick at 8:35 PM yesterday: Always good to read through your thoughts and somehow this place just isn’t complete without our Chief Chef being aboard – food service or not!
Most educational insights regarding the couplers and braking systems. There’s little doubt in my mind that we have a collection of railroad knowledge at this Thread that is the equal of any other – and ours is international at that!
Let me jump in here with some thoughts regarding CORK ROADBED – something I didn’t comment on earlier. Some years back – before there was a Can-Am Trainroom and our basement was unfinished, I constructed a train room to house my HO collection. The room was roughly 22 ft long x 10 ft wide. My train table was in the shape of a “U” with twin spans used to connect the open legs. All controls were in the center aisle between the legs (hold that thought!) and my trackwork was designed to accommodate running 4 trains independently of one another.
There were elevated sections, with very gradual inclines and I must say, the plan looked just fine.
Wiring was the “old fashioned” DC way with insulted rail joiners. Okay – that should give you an idea of it all.
I used cork roadbed throughout. Now here’s the bad news. Our basement at the time was a rather damp place and prone to mildew and mold. Track cleaning was a nightmare and to compound the problem, I had “miles” of brass track. When it became apparent that I could no longer spend too much time in the basement
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Clouds and rain in the coalfields today with temperatures in the 50s. Not as bad as it could be. The great sigh of relief around the Nation that the election is today; the groan you hear is that the 2008 Pres. race will begin tomorrow. As Silent Cal once said, "I have nothing to say, and don't quote me on that."
A whole bunch of interesting comments today from our far-flung posters. Barndad had some fascinating material on the Chicago subway as a coal carrier. That material was, of course, a keeper for me. The locomotive in the picture closely resembles some of the mine locomotives that operated "in the day." Looking a little more closely at the article gives the reader an idea of the importance of coal in our infrastructure back then. Also enjoyed the dog breeds which led me to think of two more. You cross a racquetball and a Springer Spaniel you get a Springer spaniel. Also you forgot the Irish Canardly - that's a dog of so mixed an ancestry you can't tell what it is.
Our 'Steamed proprietor has led off with a fine introduction to RPOs. BTW, I liked the cancellation from the NC&StL. BTW, Tom, Boston and Maine had RDC4s (RDCs with RPO "apartments."
Herewith my contribution on RPOs (in the frozen north, of course). I left out most service in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine as I wanted to focus on RPO routes in and out of Boston, and some shorter runs in different parts of Massachusetts. I recall seeing more than a few of these cars. Many of these RPO runs were interline trips (domestic and some foreign) - not that uncommon in the northeast because of relatively short distances between cities.Anyway, get out your rail map of New England and Canada and you can trace most of these routes.
Some of you may recall my mentioning a family friend who worked on the Boston-Portland RPO out of North Station. I also have a friend here who still works for USPS, but started out as an RPO clerk on the C&O. The last RPOs I remember seeing in service were on the New York-Washington route. These were PRR RPOs and were gloriously dirty on the outside. I frequently saw them during the late hours in Baltimore.
Boston-Based RPO Services (1950)
RPOs Operating From North Station
Boston – Bangor (B&M/MEC)
Boston – Alburg, VT, via Bellows Falls (B&M/RUT/CN to Montreal) – disc. 1953.
Boston – Troy, NY (B&M) – disc.1958.
Boston – Portland (B&M)
Boston – Rockport, MA via Salem, MA (B&M)
Boston – St. Albans, VT via Concord, NH (B&M/CV)
Boston – Woodsville, NH via Plymouth and Laconia, NH (B&M)
The Boston and Maine had extensive RPO operations on many of its lines; most of these were discontinued c. 1959.
RPOs Operating From South Station
Boston – Hyannis (NYNH&H)
Boston – Albany via Worcester, Springfield (B&A)
Boston – New York via Providence, New Haven (NYNH&H)
Boston – New York via Springfield (B&A/NYNH&H)
Boston – Waterbury via Willimantic, Hartford (NYNH&H)
Other RPO Routes Operating in Massachusetts (1950)
Worcester, MA – Concord, NH via Ayer, Nashua (B&M)
Worcester – Lowell, MA via Ayer (B&M)
Springfield, MA – Newport, VT (B&M) to Montreal via CP NOTE: Am not sure, but this route appears to have been cut back to Springfield – St. Albans; It ran until 1967, thus being the last RPO serving northern New England.
Worcester – Providence (NYNH&H)
Portland, ME – New York via Lowell, Worcester (B&M/NYNH&H)
work safe
Good afternoon Tom and all in – I’ll have a pint of mild and perhaps wait for the Juke box to quieten down. Sorry not to get this in earlier Tom, did intedn to kick off but there we are. You can't beat the guy witht he keys to the tavern!
So, here we are – Railway Post Office Day – here in UK they are called Travelling Post Offices (TPO) so for this run down I’ll refer to them as TPOs. I’m hoping we will get some good information from other parts of the globe so hope this starts other contributions.
First of all though, by looking at the Recent Classic Trains edition on the subject I’ve tried to work out differences between UK TPO practice and North American. Looks like very little – in fact only differences I can see are very minor:
- Cars were not marshalled into passenger trains (although may have been once upon a time), being run as post office service only
- Lineside catch and pickup equipment involved nets that caught the bags off ‘Traducer Arms’ that dangled the bags outside the car – in US it looks like the staff simply threw the bags off at the vital moment – was that the case?
Other aspects, special postage franking, mailbox on the side of the car for last minute posting etc are all familiar British practice too.
So here goes:
I’ll start off with recent events since some readers may not know that the onboard sorting of mail in a TPO only ended here in the UK in 2004 – very recent history. Having had a long standing fascination with these services since childhood I made sure I was there on the last night to see these services come to an end! This is my version of that final chapter.
Back in the 1990s the British Royal Mail decided to make heavy investment in the rail based mail distribution network. They bought a fleet of electric powered multiple unit mail stowage trains (not TPOs as no sorting on board), and built substantial rail connected depots near London, Bristol, Newcastle and other locations (no longer would it be possible to go to London railway terminal stations late in the evening and see the mail trains, inc the TPOs being loaded from vans prior to departure – this would all now happen in the privacy of these vast mail transhipment depots). This was a multi million pound investment and although the number of night sorting mail trains had been reduced over the years – the future seemed pretty assured. Some good pictures of one of these vast ‘private stations’ is here.
http://www.tpo.org.uk/articles/NETPO1.htm
Forward to about 2003. Royal Mail are in some financial difficulty and government wants them to return to profit. The contract with the rail company EWS (owned by Wisconsin Central) is up for negotiation and Royal Mail claim they can’t get a reasonable price offer from EWS. Royal Mail announce they are going to withdraw from all transport of mail by train after Christmas 2003 (and switch to road plus some air). This comes as shock to most people – and runs directly contradictory to govt policy to get freight off roads (Royal Mail is Government owned). Freight hauler EWS must be pretty annoyed since they bought a fleet of 125mph diesel locomotives from Spain (Class 67) primarily to haul these fast mail trains. (as a postscript – that is one of the reasons these locomotives are now hauling sleeper trains and other freight since there are no TPOs to haul). Whatever happens they announce the practice of sorting mail on board trains will cease on the night of 9th/10th January 2004. All that 1990s investment is more of less thrown away. We have truly come to the end of an era. (NB in 2005 Royal Mail began moving a much smaller amount of pre-sorted mail by train again on a few UK routes).
From late summer / autumn 2003 it is well known the TPO trains will cease running. My second cousin works for EWS, so I ask him what time the remaining runs through the East Midlands operate so I can go and observe the nightly ritual. He advises me that the South West – North East Bristol / Newcastle TPO runs through Derby – northbound about 00.30, southbound about 01.15. This location is only about 15 miles from me and we have family there. Times are not too late to pay a visit to the station.
In the run up to Christmas 2003 we are on a family visit – this seems the ideal opportunity to head out just after midnight (a few raised eyebrows from the rest of the family as they prepare for shut eye!). I get to the station in plenty of time – armed with a 1st class self addressed envelope to post on one of the trains. It’s a cold night and no one else is around, but no one seems to be bothered. Eventually a locomotive hauled van train arrives from the south in the mail train colours. A few Royal Mail staff appear from a storage area to one side and van doors are flung open, there is some fairly frantic loading and unloading of mail bags – I wander up the platform – there is no TPO in this train. I’m worried the TPO service has already been withdrawn on this route. The train pulls out and I ask a member of staff “what about the TPO? Do they no do that anymore?”. Turns out I’m a little early – this is an extra van train to deal with the Christmas volume of post – TPO should be along in about 10 minutes.
I bide my time and then it appears – this time much more activity – several sorting cars in the train and doors are opened up for the guys on board to load, unload and get a little fresh night air. Lots of platform activity as staff rush to complete their tasks in the 10-15 minute allocated slot. I get a good view inside the cars and the staff seem friendly enough. Happy to great an interested observer perhaps. Eventually there is a slamming of doors and the loco powers up – into the black night and off towards the north east. Time for me to go home to bed.
I make my mind up to revisit this scene several times before the scheduled last night of 9th January 2004. But first I’ve got to learn how to do something I’ve never done before – take decent night time photographs with my 35mm camera and no flash gun. And I haven’t got long to learn! Fortunately I find a website where a chap who specialises in night rail photography gives the tricks of the trade – exposure times, film speed, tripod use etc etc. I equip myself and go back, experimenting with different exposure times and shooting off quite a bit of film on these cold January nights. To get some idea if I’m doing it correctly I take the film for 1 hour processing so I can go back the next night and improve my technique. I’m pleased with initial results and can see how to make adjustments.
All in all I made several trips and took quite few pictures, on one night the chaps on the TPO invited me to step inside briefly and take a picture on board. I don’t want to get anyone in trouble, but they are generously spirited (very much so since most will be redundant in a few days time). I take a few snaps whilst they continue their sorting work. I’m pleased that I can get the pictures developed and order spare prints to take back the next night to give to the crew. Turns out it is a different crew but they know each other and promise to pass on the snaps. I’m pleased about this since it is nice to be able to ‘pay back’ the favour. I always remember to bring a selection of stamped post to post through the TPO letter box. It usually arrives on my doormat the next day – stamped with the special TPO mail stamp.
As the date gets closer to 9th Jan I’m not the only person arriving to watch the services both north and southbound. A few other photographers are there. By the last night (9 Jan 2004) word must have got round and the story is in the press too. On this night there are at least 50 – 60 people on Derby Station to see the last services go. The crew say it is the same at all the stopping points – folk with a sense of history who regret the passing of this fine tradition. At York a bagpiper sees off the train, and one service carries a bugler who sounds his bugle at each stop. The crew remain in good spirits and as the train pulls out they wave to us from the open door ways – some make other gestures of good will – throwing bundles of special TPO mailbag labels and other bits and pieces from the open doors to their ‘fans’ – I collect a complete set of mailbag labels as a reminder.
After the 00.30 departure for the north most onlookers head for home – not realising the last services to pass through will be the southbound one about 1 hour later. The hardcore stay on. The time allows me to change my film, clean the lens, have a hot coffee from my thermos. Then I photograph the last service and that is it – the end of an era.
I don’t have digital versions of my own pictures but some great pictures of that Night at Derby station are on line - see
http://www.beano.de/tpo/ check the catalogue on the left hand side for various images, including some great interior shots. I can’t see myself in these pics but I was in that crowd somewhere.
I won’t go in great detail into the History of the British TPO system (which may of course have been one of the first such systems in the world?) because it is very well documented here on this excellent site:
http://www.tpo.org.uk/
See history of the TPO system pages. This site is run by some chaps who are restoring an LMS TPO, have a SR and GNR TPO and have recently bought a number of the newly redundant cars (which all date from the 1950s and 1960s). They run them on a preserved railway where they also have line side pick up apparatus (the lines side pickup / drop off at speed was discontinued in UK in 1971 I think).
This site also has some good stuff about the UK TPO system
http://www.allanyeo.co.uk/html/history_presentation_.html
One other thing I’d like to mention is the classic documentary film Night Mail – most UK enthusiasts will have seen this film made in the 1930s by the Post Office to show the work of a London to Scotland mail train. The film is known as one of the all time classics of documentary film making
Some info is here:
http://www.britmovie.co.uk/genres/documentary/filmography/003.html
“Night Mail - The epitome of the particularly British amalgam of railways, poetry and social document, this extraordinary short was produced by the GPO to show the overnight journey of a post train from London to Glasgow. With a score by Benjamin Britten and rhythmic verse delivered by WH Auden, Watt and Wright's potentially prosaic project is transformed into one of the all-time classics of film, documentary or otherwise.”
1936 Black & White 24 minutesProduced by John Grierson. Directed by Harry Watt and Basil Wright. Music by Benjamin Britten. Verse by WH Auden.
"The most celebrated documentary made by the General Post Office Film Unit. Night Mail shows the Postal Special's run from London to Scotland. It has all the qualities of classic British documentary: realism, perfect structure and an inspirational appeal."
This gives me the rare opportunity to end the day’s contribution with some poetry!!
The film night mail ends with a poem, which I expect many of you know – I make no apologies for repeating it here.
If you’ve seen the film you’ll know it, but the poem is cleverly written to match the pace of the train as it is filmed during these stages of its run (do Poets call it ‘meter’?) eg you can’t really read verse 2 faster than the train, whereas verse 4 has a very fast pace. If you’ve not seen it, have a read through (out loud maybe!) and see if that comes across. I’ll give some guidance:
Verse 1 and 2 show the train heading into the climb and slowing for the ascent of the grade (Beattock Bank was/is a famous incline en route to Glasgow).
Verse 3 is at the summit, pausing for the speed of the descent.
Verse 4 shows the fast moving service going as fast as possible for the destination.
Verse 5 is real slow as the train pulls up the buffers at Glasgow Central terminus – and the film concludes.
This is the Night Mail crossing the border,Bringing the cheque and the postal order,Letters for the rich, letters for the poor,The shop at the corner and the girl next door.Pulling up Beattock, a steady climb:The gradient's against her, but she's on time.Past cotton-grass and moorland boulderShovelling white steam over her shoulder,Snorting noisily as she passesSilent miles of wind-bent grasses.
Birds turn their heads as she approaches,Stare from the bushes at her blank-faced coaches.Sheep-dogs cannot turn her course;They slumber on with paws across.In the farm she passes no one wakes,But a jug in the bedroom gently shakes.
Dawn freshens, the climb is done.Down towards Glasgow she descendsTowards the steam tugs yelping down the glade of cranes,Towards the fields of apparatus, the furnacesSet on the dark plain like gigantic chessmen.All Scotland waits for her:In the dark glens, beside the pale-green sea lochsMen long for news.
Letters of thanks, letters from banks,Letters of joy from the girl and the boy,Receipted bills and invitationsTo inspect new stock or visit relations,And applications for situationsAnd timid lovers' declarationsAnd gossip, gossip from all the nations,News circumstantial, news financial,Letters with holiday snaps to enlarge in,Letters with faces scrawled in the margin,Letters from uncles, cousins, and aunts,Letters to Scotland from the South of France,Letters of condolence to Highlands and LowlandsNotes from overseas to HebridesWritten on paper of every hue,The pink, the violet, the white and the blue,The chatty, the catty, the boring, adoring,The cold and official and the heart's outpouring,Clever, stupid, short and long,The typed and the printed and the spelt all wrong.
Thousands are still asleepDreaming of terrifying monsters,Or of friendly tea beside the band at Cranston's or Crawford's:Asleep in working Glasgow, asleep in well-set Edinburgh,Asleep in granite Aberdeen,They continue their dreams,And shall wake soon and long for letters,And none will hear the postman's knockWithout a quickening of the heart,For who can bear to feel himself forgotten?
Author : W H Auden
So we end on an artistic note – for anyone who does not realise that steam, steel, coal and diesel is as much art as the smell of paint and the sound of music – let ‘em think again!
Greetings Captain Tom and fellow sophisticates!
Ruth, two from the Menu Board if you please, make them both #3. A cuppa tea for my lady and I shall have my customary steaming hot mug of coffee with just a "splash" to make it interesting. We will sit over by the side windows and take in the readings from today and last evening while we wait.
Wonderful start to the cyber day with Captain Tom initiating the Railway Post Office Theme for the Day! Always enjoy those submisisons and I do hope everyone understands that yours are much more than a simple cut and paste job. Well done with the photos as well - each of those has to be uploaded then downloaded and prepared for this forum. (Thanks to Lydia, I am becoming 'puter literate! <grin>)
The RDC information from CM3 was spot on as well - only thing lacking are photos, but perhaps our UrlMesiterMan Mike will come up with those later on. Thanks to Captain Tom, I have become rather well acquainted with the nuances of the RDCs and understand their varied uses. Budd really came up with something with a value still in demand to this day.
Glad I stuck around for the submission from DL - now that is simply full of all kinds of insights and avenues with reference to the Traveling Post Offices of the UK. Really well done and yours is a treat for the eye. Between what you provided and that from Captain Tom - we have covered the bases well! Always a bit of sadness creeps in when something like what you provided comes through; the end of an era and so forth. So many decades, so many employed, so much infrastructure, so time marches on. So what has happened to all of that rolling stock
Ending your post with prose was a stroke of creative imagination! Well done and a fine selection indeed!
Lydia is impressed with your culinary background, Sir Nick and should we ever find ourselves in your part of the world, the dinner is on us, however, YOU Sir, shall prepare it!
Eric, I concur with what you have to say regarding Kalmbach. Since my "encounter" with them a few weeks back, mine is to maintain a distance. Not at all interested in the way they handle things, however, I am very mindful that this is a service - a free one at that. So, I am willing to go with the flow until our Proprietor feels it is time to move elsewhere.
Doug, of course being the professed rail novice of the group, why would I know anything about the subjects being posted here? However, I do find them of extreme interest and have enjoyed reading about that Chicago subway freight system. Very informative.
Yes, it does appear as if the November Contest may indeed have no winners. Then again, we all win. For I view it as an outstanding achievement to have remained such a viable thread for all of these months, in spite of the carping and the like coming from the baseboards of the Ether. <grin>
I note that your area has an airport - Spirit of St. Louis in Chesterfield Valley. Is that close to where you reside, Sir Tom Just doing a bit of thinking regarding the Second Annual Rendezvous in May.
My apologies if I have left anyone out this morning! Now, let me offer up these photos from a website that Lydia came across. All of their photos are FREE to use, providing proper credit is given. I suggest those of you who are having some difficulty finding unrestricted photo use, check this out: www.freefoto.com - it is indeed a gold mine!
Travelling Post Office LNER TPO 70294 - Nene Valley Railway - Photo: Ian Britton (c) FreeFoto.com
Class 325 Royal Mail Train - Photo: Ian Britton (c) FreeFoto.com
Shunting a Mail Train in Tyne Yard - Photo: Ian Britton (c) FreeFoto.com
Class 325 1M78 14:40 Low Fell - London Mail Train - Photo: Ian Britton [c] FreeFoto.com
Class 325 Royal Mail Train stands in Darlington Station- Photo: Ian Britton [c] FreeFoto.com
Class 325 Royal Mail Train stands in Darlington Station - Photo: Ian Britton (c) FreeFoto.com
Enjoy the day, Gentlemen!
Good afternoon Ruth and all those here assembled. I shall take a large roastbeef and my morning beer and sequester myself into the far corner booth. Seems that my yearly flushot recieved on friday to ensure good health and long life did the opposite,spent the bulk of the last two days flat on the ole back gotta love modern medical tech
Anyway quite a good showing on sunday and monday, we are indeed likely to hit 8500 before any of the forecasted dates. we must all haev gotten the same pp advice from madame wanda over in the Mentor Curiosity show ( don't call them freaks it's not politically correct , they are normality challenged, not unlike the jo's BK n Lars flushed out )
So in no particular order here's some catch up , no not the bottled knid Boris Anyone no a good stain remover?
Tom-Wonderfull movie pic's from sunday, and I have thoroughly enjoyed todays RPO info It do appear as though you will have a well a well differentiated and busy trip to merry old , you may wish to pack an extra liver if the beer will flo as much as it is seemingly to do.You can count onnseveral things from me of sat sun next week
Eric-The photo's from sunday were wonderfull ( thanks Doug for the url )I loved that old Stockholm car looks alot like some of the standard German / Dutch / and Polish city cars.To answer your question on streetcars systems in Canada The TTC in Toronto is the only full service one. Vancouver has reactivated a small piece of their interurban routes but it's a tourist attraction , same as the high level bridge operations in Edmonton. Now Edmonton Calgary Vancouver have electric lie-rail operations but they are all the train type operations as opposed to imbedded city street running. Ottawa is seriously concidering converting their O train to electric lite rail ( currently it's diesel ) and Kitchener -Waterloo is in the process of starting construction on their new electric lite-rail system.
Lars- great book covers in support of sunday's photo day,it is always good to see the mobile larsmobile of books on a weekly basis.
BK-Great commentary on the Jo's et al can't live with them ,but they do seem to be an unfortunatle side effect of the forum systems in general,guess we shall just ignore and keep what we are doing. In my few dealings with the forum people, I'm not convinced that emails numerous or not will ever 100% solve the problem,but it tis worth a try.My compliments to Lydia's crack research anding just that much more to our RPO topic today, full marks to you both I have noted that there is an effort online at least underway to get our Fed govt to provide state funerals for our three remaining WW1 vets all od whom are over 100 yrs of age. When I find the proper url I'll retype it here.What brought this up was your undying desire that all vetrens that our countries have left should be properly taken care of , and remembered for the services they rendered to our countries.
Doug-An absolutly wonderfull outpouring of info from our font in Ill !I loved the various old CTA chots and off coarse the coal subways good show sir. The dog breeds while funny ruffled my wifes feathers iunfortunatly bing as she has NFLD routes
James-Great part two last sunday, really wonderfull info and a great commentary over on Tom's other thread as well, we sahll mis part three next week.You are most welcome for the BL2 info it is what we are abouit around here ( Tom note the spelling )I'm sure that youi will find some meaningfull info on monday once you have returned.
Pete-Wonderfull shots on Sunday,great story about the vets affairs lady from over home.I'll still be adding a handfull of poppies for all of us hear to the national memorial for all of us here Just the right thing to do.
DL-Some great info on the Royal Mail services today aand on the break van's.They are sometimes refered to as vans here as well ( although caboose and cabeese does tend to be intermixed quite freely )I aggree with your commentary on our "friends"on the other thread,it does seem to be human nature to repeat conversation, espeacially mutually enjoyed or experianced info.
Nick-You old sea dog you.The research assistants look alot like the girls that thew me a couple of curves the other night when I was struck from behind while trying to bail you out. Do I sence a conspiracy.Hmmm perhaps the good inspector did not "probe" deeply enough
One handfull of poppies will definatly be served up though as you are so right no family in Europe and most over here are not untouched by the events of last century.
Mike-The usuual fine fare from you and it seems to have created a momnster between you and James ( No Boris it's agood monster ) Mike finds em and James explains em good show all around BTW watch out for the red headded "assistant"
Back in a bit with some RPO stuff, Heather's home and lunch must be made.( thank God it isn't chicken soup )
Rob
<stomp> <stomp> <stomp> My good God it's COLD in here! Turn up the heat and pour me a triple JD - hold the rocks! Didjasee it is SNOWING out there!! Snow here in Mentor Village on November the 7th, now that just has to be a record. C'mon Ruth, snuggle up with ole Lars and get my blood runnin' HOT!
G'day Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!
What a day this has been and more to come. I'm hoping that the posse fails to look in here - I'm on the lamb, and wish to receive asylum! If the Mrs. calls or stops by, I'm NOT here! <grin> Unless of course she's buying!
Looks like a fine Tuesday Theme for the Day is underway with more to come. Cap'n Tom digs out those Wikipedia missives with regularity, and the rest of the crew follows through with great offerings. Had no idea the RPO (or the TPO) had such a history steeped in such tradition. Just another of the benefits of hanging around this place, one just can't get enough of the good stuff! 5- Salute to Tom 'n DL for those two extra-fine submissions!
Can't forget to make mention of CM3 I'm NOT Shane! and his revealing info about the RDCs of New England. Yes, those beauties traveled many a mile to sort and deliver the U.S. mail - neither snow, nor sleet, nor dark of night, nor . . .
Sorry Doug, but I'll get a round to reading that part two - just been focusing on the "theme" for right now! Looks like you're back - at least for awhile and that ain't all so bad!
BK, those are fine looking pix and many thanks for the tip on the web site. Is this the same one you mentioned some months back Sorry, but I either misplaced or really filed that one away!
I'm tellin' ya, mate - gotta watch that silver tongued devil from west Wales - Lydia seems most interested in his "menu's"!! <grin>
Got my voting responsibility over with and was a bit surprised by the low turnout. Of course, I was only viewing a "snippet" of time, but generally we vote at the same time and there are always lines. Not so today. I know we are NOT a political thread, but I just can't resist it: why would anyone want "Nancy" as the 3rd most powerful political figure in our country Beats me! Then of course we have Queen Hillary waiting in the wings to grab #1. Woe is us - woe is us indeed should that happen. No where to run and no where to hide.
Now where was I Ah yes - pardon me while I refresh my triple Jack! Thanx my deAH! I'm getting really WARM now! So, where was I Ah yes - perched right here on my stool, gandering at the finest of stern section this side of the Atlantic. Ahhhhhhh looks like I lost my frame of reference for whatever it was I was going to say! What is that Cap'n Tom - the mind is the SECOND thing to go <grin>
Good to see Nick 'n the boys out last night and the return of Rob this afternoon! Hope that whatever it was that gotchadown has passed. It must have adversely impacted your fingers though - as they surely are getting stuck in between those keys (as noted by someone else on past pages)! <grin> Who said chicken soup 'n beer don't go together
Ok, 'nuf of my nonsense and time to put forth something for our Theme for the Day! This is pretty much a hodge-podge as the book covers were really far 'n few between. So, enjoy!
The OC&T RR operates the only working Railway Post Office in the United States
A commemorative stamp shows a railway mail clerk picking up a mail pouch from a catcher arm. (National Postal Museum, Smithsonian Institution)
Night Scene at an American Railway Junction, by Currier & Ives, ca. 1876, shows the "Flying Mail" train at center. (Library of Congress)
RPO Directory - 1864 - 1977
D&RGW RPO #60 book
Look at that - the snow is just about over the running boards on Cap'n Tom's "new" car! <grin> Well, those solid tires should really cause havoc when he tries getting out of the lot!
That should just about do it . . . time for me to skedaddle!
Until the next time!
Hi Tom and All.
I'll have one of Doug's rounds please RUTH.
A busy time at the bar Tilla and the Cashinator must be very happy and the funds will soon be up to pre darts torney levels.
NICK Great info on the vans and loose couplers looking back it is almost unbelieveable that un brake fitted freights lasted as long as did on British Railways. Another part that was needed with the unfitted freights was the need for Catch Points on the grades, where if there was a break away with a un fitted trains on a grade the catch point would de-rail the runaway. I well remember these on the North and West route through the Welsh Marches in the 70s.
It was quite an art to couple the 3- link coupler on wagons using a Shunting pole.
DOUG Hope it is not too long before you are back with us at the bar from the new digs.
Thanks for the part 2 of theChicago Freight Subway, it was a big operation with 3,000 cars and over 100 locos. I shall look forward to the Encore on the CFS equipment at the IRM.
JAMES Will miss you this weekend with The Milwaukee Road News.
ERIC There was a lot of slack with the 3-Link coupler, but it was a great help in starting a heavy goods, with a relatively small steam loco. It took a great deal of skill to start a loose coupled goods without causing a snatch that could easily break a coupling.
TOM I have to go out for awhile so I will post this and come back to the RPO/TPO theme day when I get back .
Pete.
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house.
This thread moves too fast and I move too slow.
Thanks for the secretary Nick. Does she call everybody Gramps?
"Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor gloom of night stays these courier from the swift completion of their appointed rounds." - Herodotus
http://www.printspast.com/misc/60584301.jpg
How 3 billion pieces of wartime mail a year speed over the Water Level Route.
Not one of the passengers aboard the 20th Century Limited ever sets foot here.
This car is reserved for wartime travelers of a different kind...tiny V-mail...important business letters...registered envelopes packed with war contracts and blueprints...all part of the three billion pieces of mail that speed each year over New York Central.
Hour after hour, as the Century bores through the night, deft-fingered postal clerks sort this cargo of 'preferential mail.' And tomorrow, on arrival, the pouches and sacks will be ready for immediate forwarding or delivery.
Winter or summer, through storm or fair weather, these 'post offices on wheels' provide lowest cost transportation for 96% of the nation's vast mail tonnage. A vital war service of American railroads today. A service that will be still swifter and more efficient aboard the finer, faster trains of tomorrow.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-rpo1263.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nych-rp2132ajg.jpg
CV
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/_images/common/photos/original/CN005388.jpg
http://216.94.16.48/_images/common/photos/original/CN005347.jpg
L&N
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=200605110720026253.jpg
B&M ?
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2004053004593626747.jpg
Hannibal & St. Joseph
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA04/hopper/Postal/71-14.jpg
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/rrxcolor.Html
Mike
G’Evenin’ Gents!
For some strange reason it has been a long day here at the Saloon by the Siding. However, the bar has taken in a few bucks, so what’s to crab about, eh
To the acknowledgments!
CM3 at 8:51 AM today: Nice idea to feature the RDCs of the B&M and the Boston based RPOs. Seem to recall the RDC4s of the B&M – but now with all of the experience in the Ether, can’t sort it out between reality and what I’ve picked up here. Good stuff!
DL at 9:31 AM today: What’s to say other than – a mighty fine piece of information, replete with URLs and chock full of great background info. Very sad to think of the demise of those TPOs and the attendant work force supporting them. Well worth the wait, Mate!
I think your questions are best addressed within my Wikipedia Post – the answers are there!
BK at 11:07 AM today: A fine spate of Brit TPOs! Lydia “done good!” Like the looks of those mail cars and I too wonder what happened to them.
Surely enjoyed the poem and it is a great “fit” and creative way to sum up your efforts! You appear to have much more than a cursory knowledge of this subject and it shows!
Rob at 12:43 PM today: Way back when I was a young man, I used to get sick each year from the flu shot. Of course those of us in the military had no choice but to submit to them. Once I reached a point in my career where I could get away with telling the Doc’s to buzz off I stopped getting them and NEVER got sick from the flu. It was only in my later years when the “concern” was to ensure that everyone over 60 got the shot that I resumed the annual event. Surprise to me is that I have had no ill effects. The serum has either changed over the decades or my system has. Either way, I’m “covered.” Sorry to learn of your set back – ain’t any fun, fer sure, fer sure.
Chicken soup ‘n brew sounds fine to me!
Fine inclusive Post and we await your RPO submission!
Lars at 12:48 PM today: Good to see ya and methinks YOU brought the snow from wherever you were! Yes, the Mentor Village & Can-Am County Meteorological and Subterranean Critter Control Department has confirmed that this has been a record snowfall for this date in our recorded history. And thanx for cleaning off those running boards for me!
You struck a chord with me regarding your rant. You’re forgiven – after all it is Election Day and expressions of this ‘n that are bound to boil over. Just buy the house a round and all will be right with the world!
Thanx for the Pix spread – a good fit for the “Theme”!
So, WHAT are you “on the lamb” for Hiding out from the Mrs. requires elaboration. C’mon – we’re all ears! Curious minds demand to know!!
Pete at 3:34 PM today: Just dropped in for a free beer – not l
G-day Tom and all present.
Cold, and dark. I don't really like this. But I know what I would like. A cup of java with a splash of vanilla.
Leon, could you get that for me, please.
Well I am glad The Milwaukee road news is going over well, as I got compliments from Pete, Nick, Rob, Tom, and Eric. I am sorry I can't be here this Sunday but I do like that I'm holding you in suspence. Issue 3 will be on the Little Joe, Milwaukee's most used electric.
Pete- Here is the website to the Arkansas and Missouri Railroad. It should be informative. I have a video on the railroad and it's pretty cool. The railroad is only aboyut 150 miles long. Also classified as a shortline railroad.
http://www.arkansasmissouri-rr.com/fhome.html
Nick- Well I am glad that the response on the other thread caught your eye. I hope it caught the eye of the other guy too and maybe he will understand, and maybe not, but lets not get that started over here. Best to leave it. Well, I also see that the cork road bed caught your attention. I recommend the stuff highly. It's flexible and easy to bend and can be cut. It deffinantly makes laying track easier and sets up the beginning of the ballast.
Barndad- I see. No limit to the groan-o-meter. Well, I will becareful. BTW: The underground railroad was very cool! I have never seen or heard of anything like this. The whole thing was very informative, and my favorite thing about this, I have learned something I never knew about. Thanks.
Eric- Well I know a lot of uys on here love RDCs! I love them too. We have a running RDC here in Duluth and it's one of those, WOW, sights. Its deffinantly an eye opener when a self propelled passenger car comes down the tracks. I also saw that you were trying to find one of the Milwaukee orad electrics books. I can recommend one. It's called "The Milwaukee Road" by: Frederick W. Hyde. Half of this book is about the electrified line. Showing color photos of Little Joes and Box cabs. In fact the whole book has color photos. This is one of the better books that I have. You could probably find the book for less than the asking price of $64.95.
Tom- Nice selection of pics. Some of those really bring you back to when they passed mail around. Very cool.
Like I said before the Little Joe issue will be coming next week.
DL- Impressive account on your mail train. I didn't know they were still passing mail around by train in 2003. Our mail trains died long before then. Thanks for the info. I enjoyed it. BTW: I see that you also enjoyed the Milwaukee road box cab piece. I am glad you learned some new things about this railroad.
Rob- I'm glad there are guys willing to answer my questions and anyone elses here. I don't find to many people like you and the other guys who will actually take the time to look up info and then display what was found. Thanks. I know I won't be here for Sunday and the new issue but you will just have to think about next Sunday.
Mike- Uh oh. we've got a problem. This thread is moving to fast....... Well, What to do. I don't know...keep up.
Now for pics!
Photo from: public.fotki.com/.../010_railway_post.html
A Southern RPO, and it's looking good too.
Photo from:www.photo.net/.../digiphotos/20030531-g3-york/
The inside of an RPO car but....I don't know what car this is. Look at all the pigeon holes on this one! It would be a work out just moving your hand.
Photo from: www.oerm.org/pages/sf60.html
Here's another interior shot of an RPO. This is the type of interior that I'm familiar with.
Happy railroading
Well good evening gentlemen all,Beers all around please Leon and best bring across a bottle of cognac,theres a definate chill in the air tonight..
Right,straight to business as its getting late at this end of the counter
DOUG-enjoyed the continued I.T.C piece,also the surreal crossbreeds
For an unexpected link between I.T.C & todays theme check out http//mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r023.html for an interesting run down on the post office underground railway in London.
ERIC-Quite agree-small saddle tanks do have a `Brit` feel to them in the same way 0-8-0 side tanks always look `Germanic`, Yes,3-links it was -and a b****r to drive they must have been. The longest example I can call to mind were 100-wagon coal trains which used to run to London from Peterborough. A Beyer-Garrett articulated loco was trialed on these services in an attempt to reduce bottlenecking but was self defeating since there wern`t any refuge sidings long enough to accomodate the trains it could pull
DL-may well take you up on Scotland trip info-nice one -sounds like you and MississDL had a result from GNER-still,good PR for the company at virtually no cost to themselves-everybody wins --Excellent theme day submission with interesting links-The description of the last days of the mail at Derby was particularly evocative
The `Night Mail` with the Auden verses is a special favourite.......fine work all round
TOM-As ever,setting the pace with an excellent kick-start to theme day -Appreciate your thoughts on cork roadbed,as the train shed is a touch damp-prone I suspect I may have to explore other avenues-especially as Missisnick has `views` on the subject of more trains in the house
CM3-Nice `case study` of Boston area mail workings-good call !!
BK & LYDIA-It would be my delight to cook for you (or indeed,any of the guys) at any time-It` no great trick ,just takes a bit of imagination and an eye for detail--nice bunch of pix,ancient and modern ( the LNER car in the first pic is built to match Gresleys distinctive coaching stock which was teak-panelled and varnished rather than painted-a glorious sight behind an apple-green Gresley pacific loco < I.E Flying Scotsman > )
ROB-What can I say ?-the girls were recommended to me by a couple of the boys from the Mentor Nomads M.C-not an offer I could safely refuse.........................Glad you are back on your feet-suspect reduced resistance from working too many hours may have played some part here...
LARS-Come and sit over by me mate-she`ll never think of looking for you here-most respectable folks take one look at compost corner and immediately think of reasons to be elsewhere -nice eclectic mix of theme day pix btw-loved that O.T&C shot-- wonderful name
PETE-Thanks for picking up on the catch-points,an aspect I had completely overlooked--pop quiz question,whats the difference between trap & catch points ????
JAMES-Some nice interior & exterior shots there-thanks for thoughts R.E cork-as noted above,given the nature of my layout environment prob. not the way to go. Have seen much mention of Homasote-is this a propriertry brand of cork or something else again ?? any info welcome -enjoy your weekend btw
Right Leon,set`em up again,heres my small contribution to the day:-
Sadly,most of the pix I thought I could use are of such poor quality that I`m not prepared to show them,however I did find one or two bits and bobs...........
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Here we have a selection of model catalogues showing T.P.O vans-these will be more fully dealt with tomorrow as part of toy and model day
Yet another 4-in-1-from T.left :-Class 47`s standing outside Swansea loco shed-by this time a dedicated R.E.S service depot---Mixed bag of GUVS,Mk1 full brakes and others on the back roads behind the shed---both pix taken through a train window on a dismal wet winter day---4-whl GUV on M.O.W duty,location unknown-------selection of brake vans,all in departmental service,outside Bridgend,same day as above
Found these two whilst I was looking for other stuff- a 3 link connection (ghastly pun-apologies)-Taken at the Gwili rly,over by Carmarthen we have a W.D `Austerity` (Vets W/End) buffering up to 3 Mk1`s (last week) and the crewman hooking up and then tightening the screw link coupler (yesterday) prior to connecting the vacuum brake hoses
Right,I`ve just realised it`s 03.40 and time for the moonlight mile-take care gents, a fine turnout for theme day -well done all
speak tomorrow
nick
Right I'm back again. Leon a Cr and a round if you would be so kind. I'm a tad "dissconfuddled" at the moment. My RPO piece should have shown up right after my other post this afternoon It even showed up for me before I signed off , now it's gone, more new and improved forum gremlins I tell you it's the leading the around here fer sure fer sure. No question but I'll have to post it again once I'm done with this catch up post ( no Boris not the bottled kind 's can't live with them can't...)
Lars-Good to see you sir liked your piece of the pie today as well, and not to worry I'm above the weather again. As to my typing skills or lack thereof lets put it down to 1 part lazy and 1 part I get caught daydreaming and looking at the same "transom" that caught your eye and concentration this afternoon .
Mike-Interesting batch "o" urls thank-you again. I shouldn't worry about what the girls call you they seem to have taken a likeing to you at any rate Funny the one looks like one of Eric's missing models , perhaps another mystery solved.
James-Great extra added bit by you today good stuff I shall wait with baited breath PT 3. Those almost Russian but well loved and used Little Joes will make for a good piece.
Nick-Just caught the Herr Doktor's post You are right improper food too much time in the store accompanied by the ole flu serum ment one trolleyboy flat on his tailend markers ! Nice close up shot of that gawd awfull coupler , why can't you folks be more like us colonials
Tom-reminders for all to use the ole refresh / reload is never a bad thing espeacially with our new and improved software <barf> Somehow I can hear that converstaion you had with that forces doctor about the needle. Still in bioth my field and my wifes it would be suiside not to get them. Thios si the first time I've reacted but I think Nick was right. Lets put that boy through medical school, he could become Our Places chief malpracticer !
Sorry about the quick exit before I had a errand to do and had forgot about it until I got a phone call, anyway let me get a round in LEON.
A slightly different post on the TPOs. On the 8th of August 1963 the Glasgow to London TPO was travelling southwards has it had for 125 years. At 03.15 the train was stopped by a red light near Cheddington Buckinghamshire. this was the start of what became known as the Great Train Robbery. It was a very well thought out and daring plan. The robbers got away with 2.3 Million pounds which is probably worth about 40 million today.
Sadly during the robbery the engine driver Jack Mills was badly beaten about the head by a robber who was not caught.
They stopped the train by getting a signal to show an incorrect red and cutting the telephone wires so the second man(Drivers assistant) could not get in touch with the signal man. The TPO sorters were unaware that anything was wrong until the robbers broke in to the TPO after they had disconnected two cars and driven them to an overbridge where the used notes were taken by waiting trucks to the nearby Letherslade Farm.
After one of the biggest manhunts Britain has known, many of the robbers were caught, often recieving 30 year jail sentences, although it is thought that the mastermind was never caught and much of the money was never recovered.
The locomotive involved in the robbery was an English Electric type 4 D326 later 40126 under the TOPS renumbering, Years later this locomotive was involved in a collision in the north west of England. it was repaired and when it was finally withdrawn from service it was cut up almost immediately.
On a personal note a chap I worked with, previously had worked as a fitter for British Railways at Polmadie Depot in Glasgow and had worked on the loco before its ill fated journey, He had to have his fingerprints taken to check against those found on the loco after the robbery.
Well I hope this has been of some interest after a most excellent Theme Day deffinatly a to all.
TOM great history of the RPOs. Have you been to the Patee museum in St Josepth. We were lucky to get there a couple of years ago and saw the replica mail car. Great pic of Juneau.
CM3 It is sad to think how much traffic the railroads have lost considering how many mail trains left Boston in 1950, I suppose most of it goes by road now.
DL Great post and links. Wonderful description of the last runnings of the TPOs at Derby and as you say the sight if those new transhipment depots standing empty is a scandal. I was going to post the" Night Mail" if you had not. I can see the unrebuilt Royal Scot heading north in the film, great film and poem.
Look forward to more on the Pendelino v APT log.
BK thanks for the BR mail pics. I read that the TPO car involved in the great train robbery is preserved at the Nene Valley Railway perhaps that is the car in your first pic. A 325 Mail electric unit passed through Rugby during my last trip there.
LARS Great pics and covers despite the snow. I wondered where Ruth was earlier.
MIKE Good insight into the amount of mail the NYC carried in wartime and of course the great links.
JAMES Thanks for the Arkansas & Missouri link and the RPO pics..
ROB look forward to your RPO post .
Well I see NICK is in so I will have a look at the post and have another beer while doing so.
THEME FOR THE DAY THEME FOR THE DAY THEME FOR THE DAY TAKE 2
Okay so take two indeed, still better late than never and it is getting through not unlike our topic for the day.I won't cover reuar railway post office equipment as between Tom,Lars, CM3, Doug, and James'n' Mike it has been well covered. Likewise the Royal Mail has been well handled by DL and BK, hmmm the initailled one's have become an unintentional set of bookends this week. so I shall cover the electric compnent of RPO services.
CLASSIC JUICE # 35 MAIL THE ELECTRIC VERSION
So not unlike the more traditional RPO services some interurbans and city streetcar systems offered RPO services as well.In the case of the larger interurbans it was a natural expansion of their mandates. Since they operated intercity routes many would carry sacked mail and packages in the baggage / combine cars operating inside their trains.some even had express motors built to carry any express mail packages and LCL cargo from the station plateforms. Now unlike the steam roads mail hooks generly were not used as the loading was done by hand at the same time baggage and passengers would load up.
Several of Ontario's radial's were of coarse owned by CN and CP so they would exchange bagged mail with their parent roads express trains in major jointly served city stations.In CN's case tthe Montreal and Southern Counties and the Niagara st Catharines and Toronto would exchange mail with CN trains and in both cases handle Royal mail to steamboats as well.Another former GT property the Toronto Suburban likewise handled mail in two express cars they had built in 1917 by Preston car and coach.When CN shut down the TSR in 1931 it's two express cars were sold off to other operators.IOne went to the London and Port Stanley which renumbered thiers to car # E1 it would often be seen pulling express boxcars and frieght from the lake Erie docks to London and St thomas Ontario where they had connections to the CN. Since the L&PS also handled freight specifically coal and heating oil from Conneaught Ohio some international mail would come from the Pere Marquette via the car ferry.
L&PS E1 leaving Port Stanley harbour in 1946 pulling an express train bound for London Ontario.
Not to be outdone the CPR's Southwestern Ontario radials also handled some mail and small packages from Port Dover and Port Maitland Ontario into Kitchener Waterloo, where mail pouches would be passed onto CPR passenger trains or for a time to The Kitchener waterloo streetcars for local distribution. The Grand River Railway and The Lake Erie and Northern used their baggage combines to distribute mail. Many of the US based interurbans also ran mail between their served cities and towns, I haven't found specifics on the who and the what or which type of equipment they used. Most interurbans would used either express box motors or their baggage cars.
GRR 626 combine car typical of the CPR electrics that would handle mail service. Car 626 is pictured at Kitchener Ontario in 1947
Now city streetcars operating mail service are a bit rarer in Canada in the larger cities it was one additional sorce of revenue as most city systems had no freight operations ( some did ) to help offset costs.In the early 1880's to 90's when wholesale electrification was happeneing many of the larger cities built specific cars to just handle Royal Mail, the TTC and the Ottawa and Hull companies are three that pop into mind.After a while the speacial cars w became expensive to maintain and mail service was cancelled ( no pun intended ) and the cars were either scrapped or put to other uses. In the heyday these mail cars would have been equiped with mail slots in which people could walk upto the car and "mail" their letters. remebering that in the 1890's most city streets were still unpaved and the streetcars were the most efficient way to carry mail, once paving and trucks became available these services quickly ended.
Ottawa's car #1 the royal mail car Seen on the Parliament Hill Run in the early 1900's note how detailed and ornate the car is.
The city of Hull Quebec's lone mail car, used in latter life as a freight motor. This car would handle mail in town and accross the river into Ottawa.
Now some of the smaller cities also sought to get a peice of the mail pie and thus an alternate form of revenue. Most of these companies chose to convert old obsolete cars instead of purchasing expensive purpose built units. Thes however did not carry sorting crews as they needed to maintain some passenger space. Therefore these services carried presorted bagged ,mail for the postal carriers to dsitribute on foot.
The Kitchener & Waterloo Street railway's 10 an older passenegr car that recieved a larger fron door and vestibule to enable it to carry mail. This car would interhcange mail with the GRR in Kitchener and with the CN at the grand trunk station in Waterloo, both stations were on the systems main two rail trunks.
Another conversion this one in Toronto. this car was homebuilt by TTC predessesor road Toronto Railway company it and the TTC's other predessesor the Toronto Suburban were the only electric carriers of mail in Toronto E 1 shown above being ex TSR. In this photo mail service had ended ( happened when the TTC was formed in 1921 )The car served out the rest of it's life as shown here as a farebox car delivering fareboxes tickets and transfers from one division to another. Until replaces by armoured trucks.
Right well Leon I think a CR refill and another round for Pete and the rest of the late night pub crawlers.I hope that the RPO opost is satisfactory for everyone. I'm seeing it again so here's hopping it stays this time.
Pete-great piece on the great train robbery. So you mean to tell me that Sean conery wasn't caught and made off with the motherlode of the money Actaully I loved the movie. Neat that you knew someone who had some indirect attachment to the whole story. that old twelve degrees of separation thing strikes again.
Well folks see everyone tomorrow.
Good morning Tom and friends! Everyone all bright –eyed and bushy tailed? I’ll have the usual two light breakfasts on this unseasonably warm November morning. Quite the outpouring of fantastic RPO posts yesterday, with all contributors outdoing themselves, as has become the “norm” on this thread! Outstanding work gentlemen! Tom got us started with a great-looking Wikipedia post. I had no idea that there were post offices on boats too! Good thing we have several museums across the country that have preserved some of these railcars, or obviously, there wouldn’t be any RPO cars left at all. At the IRM, there are five. Three of them are used for our gift and bookstores. Here’s a picture of one we’re not using:
Juneau in a snit? Didn’t men to cause any such thing with my half-breed post of yesterday. He can “chew” me out in person this coming April. By the way .. sure appreciated the discussion on cork roadbed. I thought it was pretty slick stuff until reading your post. Guess I’ll be going with foam.
CM3 provided some RPO routes as well as amendments to the half-breed list. Glad you liked the mine cars. Thanks for the wonderful TPO robbery story posted later!
Wow DL !! What an incredible post! Truly amazing stuff in every way sir! A first hand story of the last days of the TPO with incredible links. You get my vote for “best post ever”. Thank-you so much for taking the time to put it together for us!
Great pix from BK, courtesy of Lydia. Glad you liked the subway post. It occurs to me that this same type of system must have been built in other large cities too. Could be interesting to find out! Maybe manager Lars even knows of a book or two on the subject? Good RPO stuff from you too as well, sir. Please keep the cold weather there until after I move. Great to see Rob yesterday. Sorry you lost your post, but you sure made-up for it! Hope you’re feeling better and thanks for the kind words Pete! Enjoyed several great URLS from Mike on our topic. Great stuff as usual! James is certainly making a place for himself in our little bar, and has been providing excellent material as well. Great to have you on-board sir. I see sir Nick made it in as well, with a nice collection of both model and prototype pix. Outstanding stuff to you as well, sir. I believe we had a really great theme day ... one of the best!
Here’s a little something from the pages of March 1964 Model Railroader (that I hope ya’ll can see:
It is quite possible that this Milwaukee Road mail car was built in 1893, for the scale model (also built in the CM&StP shops) was named Grover Cleveland. Cleveland was inaugurated for his second term as President in 1893, and that was also the year of the world’s fair in Chicago for which this model may have been built as an exhibit.
The structural drawings were made by J. Harlod Geissel, working from the photos and the best data he could find.
The nomenclature drawing of the passenger car came from the Milwaukee Road’s Car Department Handbook of 1922, but the car is obviously one designed in the 1890’s. In later years some of these cars were rebuilt with steel underframes. Those RPO cars without steel underframes bore numbers in the 1500’s and those with steel underframes (and steel wheels in the place of cast-iron) were numbered from 1600. These cars weighed around 48 tons.
THE MANS GUIDE TO FEMALE ENGLISH
We need = I want
It's your decision = The correct decision should be obvious by now
Do what you want = You'll pay for this later
We need to talk = I need to complain
Sure...Go ahead = I don't want you to
I'm not upset = Of course I'm upset, you moron!
You're ... so manly = You need a shave and you sweat a lot
You're certainly attentive tonight = Is sex all you ever think about?
I'm not emotional! And I'm not over reacting! = I've got my period
Be romantic, turn out the lights = I have flabby thighs
This kitchen is so inconvenient = I want a new house
I want new curtains = and carpeting, and furniture, and wallpaper.....
I need wedding shoes = the other 40 pairs are the wrong shade of white
Hang the picture there = NO, I mean hang it there!
I heard a noise = I noticed you were almost asleep
Do you love me? = I'm going to ask for something expensive
How much do you love me? = I did something today you're really not going to like
I'll be ready in a minute = Kick off your shoes and find a good game on T.V.
Is my butt fat? = Tell me I'm beautiful
You have to learn to communicate = Just agree with me
Are you listening to me!? = [Too late, you're dead.]
Yes = No
No = No
Maybe = No
I'm sorry = You'll be sorry
Do you like this recipe? = It's easy to fix, so you'd better get used to it
Was that the baby?= Why don't you get out of bed and walk him until he goes to sleep
I'm not yelling! = Yes I am yelling because I think this is important
All we're going to buy is a soap dish = It goes without saying that we're stopping at the cosmetics department, the shoe department, I need to look at a few new purses, and those pink sheets would look great in the bedroom and did you bring your checkbook?
Mid-week here at the Bar by the Ballast and time for a hot mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee – some pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery – and of course a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board. Great way to begin the day, dontchathink
“They” were incorrect, there is no fog and the sky is mostly blue with temps on the rise. We’re firmly in the grip of fall here in mid-continent USA as the brilliance of the turning leaves has turned to mellow hues that are rapidly rushing to brown – and the ground! <groan> Heard that petrol has risen 20 cents for no explained reason – oh, wait a minute – the election! Yup, that’s what done is in.
Thank heavens this round of political theatre has concluded. While I’m no fan of the victors, I respect the results. That’s what separates us from those who decide to take to the streets and behead the opposition. Think about it.
Editorial comment: I am noticing a “slippage” in the recognition of the other guy’s Posts. Not yet a major “deal” but evident nonetheless. No need to rehash each ‘n every submission to infinity, however, when someone makes a comment pertaining to a subject of yours – or directs a word or two your way – then it is expected that a response is warranted. Thanx!
Reminder: The Birthday Watch List has been Posted – any changes or additions to it should be directed to me via Email. Include the Month – Day – Year of birth if you want to be added. I will ensure that Doug, the B’day Watch List Whip gets the info . . . . Thanx!
Now, time to get to the acknowledgments:
James at 7:41 PM yesterday: Yes, we are a Thread where dialogue is the most important aspect of what goes on here. One asks – many seek to respond. It’s a two-way street. One-way Posters are unwelcome – always have been and always will be. It’s the way we do things here at the Tavern by the Tracks.
Thanx for the RPO Pix!
Nick at 9:45 PM yesterday: Glad the info on the CORK ROADBED may be of use. Again, just figured you’d find my experiences of interest.
Enjoyed the Toy ‘n Model Trains Pix along with the TPOs and couplers. Very diverse, very informative and very timely! Surely indicative of one who reads the Posts!
Rob at 10:09 PM, 10:47 PM and 10:59 PM yesterday: Glad you were able to resubmit your RPO info – great stuff and I enjoyed the narratives. Well done! As always, your inclusive Post sets a fine example of the manner in which we try to interact ‘round here. Can’t emulate what you do unless one is willing to go back on the Pages to the last Post one makes and pick it up from there. Seems elementary, eh
Caught your comments over on “my other Thread.” Doubt they will make a dent – the JO has done his damage; Kalmbach doesn’t care; and life goes on. The “blem,” however, remains as vivid recognition of a system gone wrong.
And by the by – it’s SIX DEGREES OF SEPARATION! Check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation
Pete at 10:17 PM yesterday: Loved the story regarding The Great Train Robbery! A shame that the engineer had to receive a beating, but I take it he survived. Anyway, there’s something “romantic” about episodes like that – kinda like Jesse James and so forth. Criminals, absolutely, but the story line is enthralling nonetheless.
Glad you made it back –
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