Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Clouds and rain in the coalfields today with temperatures in the 50s. Not as bad as it could be. The great sigh of relief around the Nation that the election is today; the groan you hear is that the 2008 Pres. race will begin tomorrow. As Silent Cal once said, "I have nothing to say, and don't quote me on that."
A whole bunch of interesting comments today from our far-flung posters. Barndad had some fascinating material on the Chicago subway as a coal carrier. That material was, of course, a keeper for me. The locomotive in the picture closely resembles some of the mine locomotives that operated "in the day." Looking a little more closely at the article gives the reader an idea of the importance of coal in our infrastructure back then. Also enjoyed the dog breeds which led me to think of two more. You cross a racquetball and a Springer Spaniel you get a Springer spaniel. Also you forgot the Irish Canardly - that's a dog of so mixed an ancestry you can't tell what it is.
Our 'Steamed proprietor has led off with a fine introduction to RPOs. BTW, I liked the cancellation from the NC&StL. BTW, Tom, Boston and Maine had RDC4s (RDCs with RPO "apartments."
Herewith my contribution on RPOs (in the frozen north, of course). I left out most service in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine as I wanted to focus on RPO routes in and out of Boston, and some shorter runs in different parts of Massachusetts. I recall seeing more than a few of these cars. Many of these RPO runs were interline trips (domestic and some foreign) - not that uncommon in the northeast because of relatively short distances between cities.Anyway, get out your rail map of New England and Canada and you can trace most of these routes.
Some of you may recall my mentioning a family friend who worked on the Boston-Portland RPO out of North Station. I also have a friend here who still works for USPS, but started out as an RPO clerk on the C&O. The last RPOs I remember seeing in service were on the New York-Washington route. These were PRR RPOs and were gloriously dirty on the outside. I frequently saw them during the late hours in Baltimore.
Boston-Based RPO Services (1950)
RPOs Operating From North Station
Boston – Bangor (B&M/MEC)
Boston – Alburg, VT, via Bellows Falls (B&M/RUT/CN to Montreal) – disc. 1953.
Boston – Troy, NY (B&M) – disc.1958.
Boston – Portland (B&M)
Boston – Rockport, MA via Salem, MA (B&M)
Boston – St. Albans, VT via Concord, NH (B&M/CV)
Boston – Woodsville, NH via Plymouth and Laconia, NH (B&M)
The Boston and Maine had extensive RPO operations on many of its lines; most of these were discontinued c. 1959.
RPOs Operating From South Station
Boston – Hyannis (NYNH&H)
Boston – Albany via Worcester, Springfield (B&A)
Boston – New York via Providence, New Haven (NYNH&H)
Boston – New York via Springfield (B&A/NYNH&H)
Boston – Waterbury via Willimantic, Hartford (NYNH&H)
Other RPO Routes Operating in Massachusetts (1950)
Worcester, MA – Concord, NH via Ayer, Nashua (B&M)
Worcester – Lowell, MA via Ayer (B&M)
Springfield, MA – Newport, VT (B&M) to Montreal via CP NOTE: Am not sure, but this route appears to have been cut back to Springfield – St. Albans; It ran until 1967, thus being the last RPO serving northern New England.
Worcester – Providence (NYNH&H)
Portland, ME – New York via Lowell, Worcester (B&M/NYNH&H)
work safe
G’day Gents!
Mid-continent USA is fog-bound and damp – verrrrrrrrrrry damp. “They” say we’ll begin a clearing along with a warm-up before day’s end. Will be heading off to the voting precinct this AM with aspirations to change the world we live in! But alas, it will undoubtedly result in same-ole, same-ole – but here’s my take on all of it. If one doesn’t vote, then one has no standing when it comes to gripes, complaints ‘n gnashing of teeth. In other words, “No vote, no b***h (rhymes with “itch”!!)
Ohhhhhhhh boy, is Juneau the Wonder Husky and FIRST MASCOT of “Our” Place in a snit this day. Seems that one of our Permanent Stool members (from the dormant Order of the Stools) has single-handedly failed to recognize the magnificent breed of dog in this morning’s rundown of those very creative “mixes.” Siberians are ABOVE all of that, OF COURSE, but still – no mention really is a low blow. Doug, watch your back (as in posterior), Mate!
Certainly appears as if this Tavern by the Tracks has become far more the evening into late evening place rather than during daylight. That’s fine with me – just as long as my favorite sound resounds throughout his old building – KaChing, KaChing along with the muffled bass from Herr Wurltizter – ahhhhhhh, music to my ears! (no pun intended )
An observation – surely appears to me that NO ONE will win the NOVEMBER CONTEST. These Pages are moving swiftly toward the 8,500 mark! <geesh> Who wuddathunkit
To the acknowledgments:
James at 7:49 PM yesterday: We’ll be looking forward to the installment on the “Little Joe.” Also, appreciate the heads up on your planned absence this weekend. Guys just have to do what guys have to do!
Pete at 8:17 PM yesterday: Wondering aloud – are you getting my Emails Still haven’t received those “catch ups.” Anyway, good to see ya stop by and always enjoy the conversation.
Like the thought of the London to Inverness run – still haven’t locked in on whether to take a sleeper or do the entire thing – both ways in daylight. The latter has great appeal, but then again, so does turning in aboard rolling steel wheels on steel rails! I’m leaning towards the night run from London to Inverness – then a different route on the return in daylight. Get the best of both worlds, so to speak. Definitely have to ‘crank in’ those famous bridges, fer sure, fer sure!
Nick at 8:35 PM yesterday: Always good to read through your thoughts and somehow this place just isn’t complete without our Chief Chef being aboard – food service or not!
Most educational insights regarding the couplers and braking systems. There’s little doubt in my mind that we have a collection of railroad knowledge at this Thread that is the equal of any other – and ours is international at that!
Let me jump in here with some thoughts regarding CORK ROADBED – something I didn’t comment on earlier. Some years back – before there was a Can-Am Trainroom and our basement was unfinished, I constructed a train room to house my HO collection. The room was roughly 22 ft long x 10 ft wide. My train table was in the shape of a “U” with twin spans used to connect the open legs. All controls were in the center aisle between the legs (hold that thought!) and my trackwork was designed to accommodate running 4 trains independently of one another.
There were elevated sections, with very gradual inclines and I must say, the plan looked just fine.
Wiring was the “old fashioned” DC way with insulted rail joiners. Okay – that should give you an idea of it all.
I used cork roadbed throughout. Now here’s the bad news. Our basement at the time was a rather damp place and prone to mildew and mold. Track cleaning was a nightmare and to compound the problem, I had “miles” of brass track. When it became apparent that I could no longer spend too much time in the basement
Now arriving on Track #2
RR THEME for the DAY - Number Seven
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds and images from other sources.
Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad #1926, a heavyweight RPO preserved at the Illinois Railway Museum.
In the United States a railway post office, commonly abbreviated as RPO, was a railroad car that was normally operated in passenger service as a means to sort mail en route, in order to speed delivery. The RPO was staffed by highly trained Railway Mail Service postal clerks, and was off-limits to the passengers on the train.
Many American railroads (the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway being just one) earned substantial revenues through contracts with the Post Office to carry mail aboard high-speed passenger trains. In fact, a number of companies maintained passenger routes where the financial losses from moving people were more than offset by transporting the mail.
The first-ever sorting of mail en route occurred in the United Kingdom with the introduction of the Travelling Post Office in 1838. In the United States it was introduced on July 28, 1862 using converted baggage cars on the Hannibal and St. Joseph Railroad (which also delivered the first letter to the Pony Express). Purpose built RPO cars entered service on this line a few weeks after the service was initiated. Its purpose was to separate mail for connection with a westbound stage departing soon after the train's arrival at St. Joseph. This service lasted approximately one year. The first permanent Railway Post Office route was established on August 28, 1864 between Chicago, Illinois, and Clinton, Iowa. This service is distinguished from the 1862 operation because mail was sorted to and received from each post office along the route, as well as major post offices beyond the route's end-points.
Virginia and Truckee Railroad #13, a "shorty" RPO photographed at Reno, Nevada on August 3, 1935.
By the 1880s, railway post office routes were operating on the vast majority of passenger trains in the United States. A complex network of interconnected routes allowed mail to be transported and delivered in a remarkably short time. Railway mail clerks were subjected to stringent training and ongoing testing of details regarding their handling of the mail. On a given RPO route, each clerk was expected to know not only the post offices and rail junctions along the route, but also specific local delivery details within each of the larger cities served by the route. Periodic testing demanded both accuracy and speed in sorting mail, and a clerk scoring only 96% accuracy would likely receive a warning from the Railway Mail Service division superintendent.
In the United States, RPO cars (also known as mail cars or postal cars) were equipped and staffed to handle most back-end postal processing functions. First class mail, magazines and newspapers were all sorted, cancelled when necessary, and dispatched to post offices in towns along the route. Registered mail was also handled, and the foreman in charge was required to carry a regulation pistol while on duty to discourage theft of the mail.
The interior of an RPO on display at the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
An interior view of Great Northern Railway #42, a restored RPO on display at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento.
A close-up view of the mail hook on CB&Q #1926.
A view of the mail hook on GN #42, along with a track side mail crane complete with mail bag.An interesting feature of most RPO cars was a hook that could be used to snatch a leather or canvas pouch of outgoing mail hanging on a track-side mail crane at smaller towns where the train did not stop. With the train often operating at 70 miles per hour or faster, a postal clerk would have a pouch of mail ready to be dispatched as the train passed the station. In a coordinated movement, the catcher arm was swung out to catch the hanging mail pouch while the clerk stood in the open doorway. As the inbound pouch slammed into the catcher arm, the clerk kicked the outbound mail pouch out of the car, making certain to kick it far enough that it was not sucked back under the speeding train. An employee of the local post office would retrieve the pouch and deliver it to the post office.
Union Pacific Railroad #2242, a smooth-sided baggage-RPO car, passes through Denver, Colorado on June 5, 1949.
Most RPO cars had a mail slot on the side of the car, so that mail could actually be deposited in the car, much
Good morning Tom and friends! I'll have a few light breakfasts as I prepare for my final day at work this week (and then the real work begins). Sad to report to Eric that the Illinois Tunnel system is no more. Most all of the equipment was sold as scrap years ago, and it was lucky that the IRM managed to pull out some of the cars before they sealed off the last elevator, which was located near the Field Museum. I posted an article on this a while back, and have shown pictures from time to time. Sounds like good ENCORE material to me! You are also quite correct to agree with Mr Abby. He's always right! Good to see a post from DL this A.M., and even better to see that we're going to see a Brit-RPO post today!
Since the subject of dogs has been discussed here from time to time, I thought ya'll might be interested in the following:
Collie + Lhasa ApsoCollapso, a dog that folds up for easy transport
Spitz + Chow ChowSpitz-Chow, a dog that throws up a lot
Pointer + SetterPoinsetter, a traditional Christmas pet
Great Pyrenees + DachshundPyradachs, a puzzling breed
Pekingnese + Lhasa ApsoPeekasso, an abstract dog
Irish Water Spaniel + English Springer SpanielIrish Springer, a dog fresh and clean as a whistle
Labrador Retriever + Curly Coated RetrieverLab Coat Retriever, the choice of research scientists
Newfoundland + Basset HoundNewfound Asset Hound, a dog for financial advisors
Terrier + BulldogTerribull, a dog that makes awful mistakes
Bloodhound + LabradorBlabador, a dog that barks incessantly
Malamute + Pointer Moot Point, owned by... oh, well, it doesn't matter anyway
Collie + Malamute Commute, a dog that travels to work
Bull Terrier + ShitzuOh, never mind...
Tom – light breakfast for me today.
Tom – you mean you were only thinking of a month in the UK? I know you guys have shorter holidays from work but…we haven’t even got to factoring in a trip on the new London Channel Tunnel high speed link yet. Seriously though, if you can manage to sort out the company the four legged friend needs, and you do ever make it – would be great to link up over a beer.
Thanks for the VIA link – timing was pretty lucky eh – they should be arriving today – maybe the local Halifax press will have some pictures?
Pete – it turns out there is some Virgin media spin on this Glasgow to London so called record run (not that it was not important) – like you I heard the press reports but then I read an article in Rail magazine by timetable expert Barry Doe (http://www.barrydoe.plus.com/) where he makes it clear the record is still held by the APT (http://www.apt-p.com/aptindex.htm)
I’ll dig out his article and clarify what he was saying – but he (Mr Doe) is a stickler for accuracy – wheras the Virgin organisation could put the spin doctoring arts of the most dubious politician in the shade, I’m afraid to say. I’ll report back.
Doug – RPO warm up – it was appreciated my friend – helps focus the mind on the big day and my UK contribution!
Eric – coupling slack – yes I’m sure there was. In fact lost in the much more high profile history of the savage UK rail closures recommended in the 1960s Beeching Report (The Re-shaping of British Railways) was key points Beeching made about freight which was to phase out all these unfitted slow moving freight trains which were choking up the network, in favour of faster freight that could be profitable, and of course to clear the lines for regular high speed inter city passenger operations. There are pros and cons of all this which I’m not going into here – but that was the objective of large sections of his report.
Nick – yes, like you I enjoyed those ICE pages too – I’ve travelled by train quite a bit in Germany but not been on an ICE – I enjoyed reading those posts. Good of you to add to my brake van (guard’s van) info – I learned some more there too. Scotland Trip with missisnick – yes I recommend the sleeper and there are some great advance purchase on-line fares you can get esp. if you avoid Friday / Sunday nights – I’ve been to Inverness on the sleeper for an all in price (fare and berth) for 19 quid. Let me know if you want more info and I’ll post a ‘how to get those fares guide’ to compliment the sleeper route guide I’ve previously posted.
Reminds me of last year we had been travelling to Durham on GNER and relying on Dining car for our evening meal – a rather lazy (and rude) steward did not want to serve more meals so told us when we boarded at Grantham that they were full (even though we could see empty tables). My partner was very annoyed about this and wrote to complain. Of course the first reply was the usual fob off, second reply at least addressed the issue, by third reply they must have decided they needed to offer us some sort of compensation – the offer – 2 complimentary tickets on a GNER service of our choice. Well – if they thought we would go for a short trip down to London for the day they had not reckoned with my timetable reading skills. We asked for, and to their immense credit they happily supplied, tickets London – Inverness and return on their longest scheduled train The Highland Chieftain – 1st class as well. A great journey – 8 hours each way by Inter City 125, north bound run with lunch between Peterborough and York, evening meal between Stirling and Slochd Summit on the Highland Mainline with the evening sun lighting up the heather clad moorland.
RPO’s later on
DL
Good evening Leon and friends. I'll have my usual bottomless draught tonight. This might be my last post until getting situated at the new digs .. so make it two, and two rounds for the house as well. Bought another table tonight to fill the extra eating room we're going to get, and a garage door opener, as I fully expect to be too crippled on Sunday to lift the door myself. Great showing of patrons this fine November day, with visits from CM3, DL, BK, James, Pete, Nick, and of course our peerless leader Tom! Who says this thread is in trouble? Doesn't look like it to me. (Loved your post Nick!
Just for the record ... I did not "sneak" in any premature RPO material. I just happened to have a lead-in ENCORE of the subject on hand, which I used appropriately on Saturday. James, I don't know the limitations of the groan-o-meter. Just don't stand too close to it if you see me tell a joke. Glad you liked the Chicago Freight Subway piece from this morning, folks. And now to grant Pete's wish to learn more ... here is part II!
Chicago Freight Subway – Traction Heritage - best of the 1912 convention
Since the tunnel is operated as an elaborate loop system, the scheme of protection have been made to cover the points of intersection and to serve for head-end and rear-end protection on any given line. Inspection of the accompanying map shows that these intersections average about one block apart, and any blocking system which would place signals 150 ft. from both sides of a junction would not only serve to protect the crossing but could be made to serve as a continuous block. The system that was installed finally was designed by S.S. Stolp, electrical engineer for the tunnel company, assisted by W.J. Kenyon, formerly vice-president. It consists essentially of a trolley contractor connected to light circuits so that front and rear-end protection is obtained as well as protection against trains approaching on an intersecting track. The signals and contactors are installed about 150 ft. from each junction point.
Arrangement of hoppers for delivering coal direct to the subway from railroad cars.
The trolley contactor consists of a cast-iron box mounted upon the trolley wire and filled with an insulating medium such as Vaseline. A transverse shaft extends through the box, being journaled inside its side walls. The arms hang down from the ends of the shaft in the path of the trolley wheel or harp. This shaft carries a circuit-closing member inside the box which operates a relay. When the extending arms are struck by the trolley wheel the circuit leading to the relay from the trolley wire is closed. He rail connection of the contactor also has its side contact members working in oil and is so constructed as to be unaffected by water or impacts it receives from passing car wheels. The working of the relay is so delicate that the slightest difference in the time between the two trains closing the contactor gives the first train the clear signal and the other the danger signal. The contactor is located a short distance outside the block, and the signal just precedes it. When a train leaves the 300-ft. block it clears all signals through the off contactor on the rail. This same signal system is employed in protecting trains on the approaches to the tunnel under the Chicago River, where 3 per cent grades were used.
Signal lamps and trolley contactor
Each train is in charge of a single motorman, and assistants are placed at the originating and delivery stations. Trains are made up at eleven assembly points by regular switching crews, each of which consists of two men.
Motorman receiving orders by telephone
The assembly points are situated at street intersections with by-passes in the four quadrants. Their location is such that the switching crew has a certain number of shippers and freight houses from which to receive and deliver all cars. Trains are made up of eight and ten cars each, each assembly point being permanently located and under the protection of the signal system, and this makes switching on the main lines safe so far as approaching trains are concerned. When a local train approaches one of these assembly points it has either loads or empties to deliver to some shipper or freight house, depending on its direction.
Typical locomotive
The entire system is divided into four districts, and all the cars to be delivered to any particular district are assembled in one train to be set out at the different delivery points indicated by the billing. Bills of lading are made out by the shipper or are received at the freight houses of the steam railroads, and from these copies are made for the company’s crews and records. In addition to the steam roads and mercantile establishments served, freight is received and delivered at four public receiving stations which aid in relieving the congested districts on the surface.
Typical merchandise car
Freight is loaded at the level of the subway at three points, where it is delivered to the cars by a conveyor, but in all other cases an electric elevator has been installed which raises the cars to the basement level, where they are loaded and returned to the tunnel level.
A number of buildings have been equipped with ash chutes which tap the top of the tunnel so that ashes may be delivered directly into the cars. Usually the ash chute is accompanied by a coal-handling plant, which includes a well into which the coal may be unloaded from the cars on the by-pass or siding. From the well it is elevated by bucket conveyors to the bunkers over the boilers.
Head-house to shaft used during construction
The rolling stock equipment includes 3000 cars of 8000-lb. capacity each and 117 electric locomotives. The freight cars consist of two different types, one for handling coal, excavation and ash, and the other for ordinary freight. There are also five observation cars. All cars at 10 ft. 6 in. in length by 4 ft. wide, and the bodies are mounted on two diminutive trucks. A typical merchandise car, made by the Kilbourne & Jacobs Manufacturing Company, is shown on one of the views on Plate XLIII. The locomotive equipment includes four types of typical mine motors, twenty-six General Electric 50-hp motors, forty-three Jeffrey 25-hp
Well good evening one and all,apologies for absense from pix yesterday but after 6 musical outings in 8 days followed by our national rugby team getting an unholy hammering by New Zealand,I was rather tired and emotional.
Leon-beers all around please-knock the caps off some Buds and stick `em in the plate-warming cabinet for DL whilst you are about it (Not a bad brew,but I prefer Czech BUDVAR .......)
So-in reverse order to start and becoming increasingly random:-
TOM-JO`s-How lucky we are to have been visited by someone who obviously knows all there is to know about everything-and absorbed it all at a single sitting..........I am humbly honoured to walk in his shadow ...........
Very nice spread on the ICE`s ....Entirely approve the suggestion R.E next weekend,have a number of relevant pix to put up,including some of the trench rail systems during the great war
An extra note or two on brake vans:-As DL has pointed out they are roughly analogous with cabeese,but without the office/dormitory function. Again as pointed out by DL,they provided an independant braking and control point from the loco,which ensured that in a break-away,both halves of the train would be manned and under some degree of control.
Loose coupled freights were generally required to stop at the top of a gradient to `pin down wagon brakes`-I.E,a certain number of wagons would have their hand brakes applied in order to add extra `drag`
A note on couplings,over here,the standard form for most of our railway history has been the `3-link` -at the end of each wagon is a hook,the shaft of which is drilled out to accept the end of 3 links of chain,this chain is simply dropped over the hook of the adjacent wagon (thus,`loose-coupled`,since there is considerable slack between vehicles ) For passenger cars,a variation called the `screw-link` was developed-with this,the centre link was replaced by a length of threaded rod with a tommy-bar so the vehicles could be coupled as closely as possible ,eliminating `snatch` For use in docks and industrial areas with excessive curvature a 5 link chain was sometimes fitted to locos Where a mixture of fitted & unfitted wagons (vacuum brake) were used together ,the fitted vehicles would always be marshalled next to the engine
Hope this either helps or is of interest
BK-entirely agree-Vets day should be a commemoration,not a celebration........
As to my state of mind and decency of purpose-well I guess you had better check with my parole officer or one of the social workers for the official `party line`
LYDIA-you asked about the menu`s a few days back--until I became a house-husband/parent,I used to put out that sort of menu for 40+ covers every night single handed ( I had a couple of waitresses to run the plates out and feed the dishwasher ) I still do half a dozen or so $20-a-plate mixed hot and cold buffets for 100-150 people every year,just to keep my hand in---It`s quite a demanding job,but the buzz you get from seeing all those empty plates and big smiles afterwards makes it work
DL- That Scots itinery looks very tempting-Missisnick has been expressing a desire to visit the land of her father for some time now-that might just be the way to go...........
CM3-Howdy !!!!
DOUG-I bow to no man in my appreciation of your jokes -a number of them have been bookmarked to fill unexpected gaps in the shows when someone breaks a string or has a cable die on them (my own repetoire enjoys a VERY limited audience )..............A busy few days from you Sir !! excellent piece on the freight subway,also the Chicago trolleys--fox & hounds (contentious over here ) ,LEGO beer and train driving at Butterley all excellent value-nice one. Like PETE,I have ridden that train-well worth a visit,sure I have some pix somewhere-it was about 15+ years ago
General note-the passenger cars in that film are all the Mk1`s mentioned previously.
JAMES-Most impressive piece about the boxcabs-something I knew nothing about,thanks,nice one ......Read your response on the other thread -You made an eloquent case,couldn`t have put it better myself-top marks ...........---You also make a good case for cork roadbed,from that and your pix I think I will try it for my next project ( a portable model of Kapuskasing on the O.N.R,with storage at each end of the station in the traditional Brit style) Have bookmarked both the RDC & general URL sites to enjoy at my leisure--good work mate,you`re an asset to the company
LARS-Another fine selection from the cyber-library-the Hendry volume is well worth the cover price for the info within
PETE-Doesn`t that Hall look a treat ,I`m sure that rake of Mk2`s was down at Fishguard with the Castle the other week--got some companion shots to go with the Austerity-saving for Vets w/end.....That Kerr-Stuart has a definate family likeness with `Edward Thomas` (K/S Tattoo class,ex Corris now Tal-Y-Lyn,for everyone elses benefit...).....Just don`t mention the bloody rugby O.K------
ERIC-Greetings to our resident Arizona Viking
ROB-Well done mate !!! -I used to have weeks like that on occaision-after a certain point,everything becomes dream like and unreal -Enjoyed the encore piece,all the mor so for finding out that the replacement buses are aiming for a greener alternative........Take a handful of poppies for me please mate-I doubt that there is a man here whose life has not been shaped in one way or another by events in Europe during the last century............
MIKE-Top form as ever-you must spend your every waking hour plugged into that machine of yours-exceptional diligance-----and your reward is......
Hi Tom and all.
A pint of Holden's Bitter please LEON.
Running late today the puter is playing up, the server keeps showing an error and closing the window, I think I have upset it by swearing at it.
Anyway I hope I dont lose this,enjoyed the Sunday photo day with JAMES pics and the Milwaukee Box-cabs post. On one of my first visits overhere I saw what I believe was a Missouri & Arkansas freight at Carthage Mo, One of the locos was #4001 if I remember right, I must admit I know nothing about this line so any info would be great.
I suppose there must have been a limit on the number of Box-car helpers allowed on one train to stop overloading the power supply.
LARS Many thanks for the great set of book covers. On the British Railway Goods Wagons cover the locomotive is a General Motors class 59/1. At the time they were operated by ARC roadstone. The locos are named after villages near the main quarry near Frome Somerset.
DOUG Thanks for the kind words on the pics. The post on the Chicago Frieght Subway as left me wanting to know more about it. I dont suppose it is still working today.What a great way to move goods around a big city.I know the Post office in London had a underground railway to move mail between some major sorting offices but this is the first time I have heard of a subway on this scale for moving goods.Many thanks for sharing.
CM3 Glad you liked the GWR pics, Alan grew up in their part of the world, where I was in mainly LMS territory, we did see some on the old Great Central line. It is amazing that the GWR did not have anything bigger than 4-6-0s for passenger work, apart from solitary Pacific,The Great Bear, which was the the first Pacific in the UK.
I can well believe the Mentor Flying Circus done the scenes in The Blue Max after seeing them in action.
DL. More great ideas for TOM's British trip and good reply on the Brake Vans. Many a fledgeling preservation railway started by giving rides on a short piece of track in a brake van hauled by an industrial tank loco. As you say, there was quite a lot of skill and co-operation between the loco crew and the goods guard when working an unfitted frieght train.
I see that a Virgin Pedelino has set a new record for the Glasgow to London run.Non -Stop in 3 hours 55 min.for the 401 miles, the special had a full load of passengers with the fares going to charity. To get a non stop run must have taken a lot of organising on such a busy line and there could not have been much track work going on. Still to average over 100 MPH on the west coast route is quite an achievement.
Still cant get the Bluebell pics off the disc and into the album, but as soon as I do( or the bride sorts it for me ) I will post them.
TOM I must totally agree with you and BK about using "happy" in conjunction with Rememberence Days.
Many thanks for the link to VIA Rail War Brides link, I think VIA deserve a for their thoughfullness.
I think with a fairly early start from Inverness, a trip out to the Forth Bridge from Edinburgh is easily do able, if not I know a good pub near Waverley station.
Talking of pubs I,ll have another please LEON.
G-day Tom and all present!
Well I am glad to see so many liked the Milwaukee Road News!
Tom- The little Joe alone has a whol history to itself so, I will be adding it to another Sunday Milwaukee News. Unfortunately I will not be here next Sunday So I will not be adding anything new. BTW: Since I hadn't seen any RDCs for quite sometime, and knowing how much some of you guys like them (including me) I decided that it was time.
I am sorry to say that I will not be here Friday or Saturday for the war related railroad pics and info. I would love to do so.
Barndad- Well.. So how high or low does the Groaner meter go? Some of your jokes are stupid funny and others are just down right funny. So I will be looking forward to more railroad info and jokes.
DL-UK- Glad you injoyed the info. Now you also should know that the railroad I am talking about is no longer around. It was bought up by the Soo Line Railroad in 1981. Electrification ceased in 1974 and the electrics were no more. Some of the locomotives though were still around in there original paint scheme in 1990. There are also a couple of MP15ACs still running around in Minneapolis, St. Paul in there original orange and black Milwaukee road paint.
More Milwaukee Road News every Sunday except for this Sunday.
Happy railroad
James
G'day Gents!
What a day of gloom here in mid-continent USA - rather constant rain, not pouring, but hasn't let up for the past several hours.
Ruth, take a break, I'll tend to things for the next hour or so . . . .
Visits from CM3 - DL 'n BK to help things along on this Monday. Much appreciated, guyz!
CM3 at 8:42 AM today: Still chuckling over that reference to Wal-Mart - Temple of Commerce, indeed!
I too took a "pass" from afternoon TV and skipped the Lambs (aka: Rams) loss to the Chiefs of KCity (my favorite in the AFC for years). Didn't miss much so I've read in the morning's paper (aka: bird cage liner!).
Yes, we now are on a "streak" of sorts, with you volunteering for the "Reporter" assignment and now Doug for the B'day Watch List Whip. Really helps alot and nice of you guys . . .
I recall when the movie "Strategic Air Command" first came out - lots of hype before the release. Good flick for the times and of course, real life Air Force officer Jimmy Stewart "done good."
DL at 11:30 AM today: First, check out this URL from VIA Rail's web site:
http://www.viarail.ca/cgi-bin/AffichageWebComm?Commande=select&langue=en&IDX=2&pk_webcomm=721
The timing of your comments couldn't have been better! Read the article and you'll "get it!" And no, I hadn't been keeping up with this. Last year VIA did a PP job of advance notice regarding the Remembrance Day train, especially photographs. Terrible is a polite way to put it. Even my "contacts" were unable to provide anything of substance to help out. This year, those "contacts" are gone . . . so, THANX for bringing up the matter.
Cabooses (or cabeese, as some like to input) in the U.S. - Vans in the UK - yes, I knew that. Just never had heard the vans referred to as "brake vans" - first time for everything! Sorta threw me outta balance, if yaknowwhutImean
Between you and Pete, we're going to require at least a month in the UK to take in all of the "recommended" rail routes and accomodations being bandied about (aboot, for Rob!). Keep 'em coming, really enjoying this and of course, everything helps when it comes time to put the package together.
Loved your post script commentary! Right on, brother - right on!
BK at 12:03 PM today: So, why not let us know how you REALLY feel, eh <grin> Always appreciate having your input and I find that your assessments are rather parallel to my own - throw Lars in there too! The Three Horsemen live!
Thanx for the commentary on Remembrance Day - Veterans Day & Armistice Day. Really sums it up quite well insofar as ALL of our vets are concerned and not just those connected with the world wars. Interestingly, Mike and I have been chatting about this via Email . . . .
Anyway, this all began last year when I came across a bunch of ads from the RRs in one of my collections. They were featuring the trains carrying the soldiers, sailors and airmen to the points of embarkation. Seemed like a good thing to feature - it worked well, so we're gonna try again.
Bottom Feeder "flap" here and on "my other Thread" - RIP. However, I wholeheartedly concur that each of us should communicate our thoughts to the Forum Manager at Kalmbach about this idiotic ratings system. That would be a step in the right direction to remove an irritant not at all necessary on the Forums. Good idea!
Also, your comments regarding the "happy" in greetings pertaining to days of remembrance brought to mind my own experiences at the Coffee Shop over a year or more back. Seems I irritated some of the "pillars" over there when I mentioned my feelings on the subject. Got the cold shoulder from then on from one or more - also was instrumental in my decision to not return. Interesting similiarties . . .
Okay Gents - Juneau is "bugging" me to get outside - and he's been a real good guy today in trying to get out between the rain drops.
And yes, the date for the 2nd Annual "Our" Place Classic Trains Rendezvous in St. Louis will occur between May 17th (Thursday) and 20th (Sunday) 2007. Anyone of our regulars interested in attending may communicate with me via Email . . .
Later!
Tom
Good Morning Captain Tom and fellow sophisticates!
Ruth, a steaming hot mug of Joe with just a "splash" to make it interesting if you please! Today, I will stick with some pastries from Mentor Village Bakery. Keep the change young lady and here is an extra amount for a round when a crowd gathers.
A mix of sun and clouds with temperatures flirting with zero (C) and of course the flurries are ever present. No snow cover to speak of, although from time to time we will get a bit, but nothing to speak of as the melting occurs rather quickly. Petrol here have been pretty stable at 92.9 per litre. And, we do not have a Wal-Mart anywhere near us!
Most enjoyable Encores on Saturday along with some fine photos extending through Sunday. Good show - and we like your choice of motion pictures for the Emporium!
Most difficult for me to remain removed from the "flap" over on your "other thread." After all, I am part of the reason we were able to flush out this particular bottom feeder (excellent descriptor!). However, I will keep my comments as civil as possible and practice a bit of brevity as well.
To all who see these comments, Greetings! The information exchanged here and on Captain Tom's "other thread" is intended for those who are of good cheer, decency of purpose and health of mind. (Sir Nick and a couple of others have had to get a waiver for that latter category!! ) If yours is to take and not give, to destroy rather than build, or to spread negativisms - GET LOST!
If each one of us would take the time to send an e-mail to the Forum Manager to express our disdain for this ridiculous ratings system, perhaps Kalmbach would rescind it.
Now, I do feel better!
We are having a rather difficult time trying to come up with something appropriate for tomorrow and the RPO Theme for the Day. Not an easy find, if one is preparing narrative or a pictorial display. Urls abound, of course. However, I have faith in my earstwhile assistant and am sure that she will not let us down! <grin> Way to go, Lydia!
As noted by DL-UK in his most recent posting, appears as if we have indeed jumped the gun with the RPO material - enjoyable stuff, but given the sparcity of the written word and "free" photos, perhaps better held 'til the Theme Day. Is that not why we have them No backdoor slam intended for Sir Doug - as every effort coming from his Illinois compound is well done and most educational (except the jokes! Awful, simply awful! <grin>) Timing though is everything when it comes to ensuring a particular event is successful. At least that is my
Outstanding turnout for the November Contest! I do not recall witnessing such a high percentage of our regular crew with such a quick response. Well done, Gentlemen!
We will do our part to come up with something appropriate for Remembrance Day - Veterans Day - Armistice Day. Recalling last year, it was a resounding success, with Captain Tom going into overtime and perhaps overload mode! Unfortunately and sadly as well, when was the most current railroad advertisement where the military was featured That is not a trick question, but an upfront one. I believe they left the scene either shortly before or during the Korean War. So, that leaves us with the WWI and WWII era for our tributes when it comes to a link with the railroads.
Let us NOT forgot all of our vets who are languishing away in hospitals and other institutions, people who still have their lives, but are hurt in so many, many ways. And please - let us not wish one another a "happy" this or that. If anything gets to me it is those people who think the appropriate greeting on days like these involves "happy." I do not subscribe to that at all and recall letting more than a few know my feelings when some were throwing around the "Happy Memorial Day" nonsense. I know that happened over at the Coffee Shop some time back (perhaps still does) and it was all I needed to reduce my infrequent appearances to zero. I feel THAT strongly about it!
Appears as if I have taken a passing siding and need to get re-routed! Sorry, Gentlemen, just one of those days.
So, tell me Captain Tom, have dates been set for the Rendezvous
Ruth, a refill on the coffee and hold the "splash"!
BK in Alberta, Canada's beautiful high mountain country!
Good morning Tom and fellow visitors.
Ruth – can I have an afternoon tea whilst I mull over the posts. I was on yard work detaisl last couple of day too Miner - plenty of leaves as you say
Couple of points on my scenic UK tour to respond to. BK – Inverness – yes, a small city, but the capital of the Highlands – good spot for travelling as 4 scenic rail routes radiate from here. North to Thurso (for the Orkneys), and west to Kyle of Lochalsh for the Isle of Skye – these routes pass through wilderness country not unfamiliar to North Americans but unusual for the British Isles, the mainline south to Perth runs through great countryside too. Heading East to Aberdeen takes you through a more lush landscape of rolling countryside – but this is Whisky country so you run past the river Spey and many distilleries are beside the line.
Pete – you make a good suggestion about taking a route via The Tay and Forth Bridges. The Inverness – London train runs via Stirling so these are missed on the route of The Highland Chieftain, but the advantage that train has is the high quality GNER service provided (one of the only trains in Britain where if your diet permits it and your bank manager allows you, you can take 2 meals in one day on the same train ie breakfast and lunch heading south or lunch and dinner heading north). But this could be overcome by taking the Inverness to Aberdeen Scotrail service and then taking the GNER train from there (The Northern Lights) south towards London – that way I think you get the bridges from the comfort of a high quality train and a nice long rise with no changes.
Last time I was in Edinburgh I took the local train to North Queensferry where you can get off and walk down to the river side underneath the Forth bridge approach lines (about 5 minute walk) – absolutely fantastic vantage point to view the Forth Bridge. Then caught train over to south side and walked down for a good look from there too. That was why I was interested in the Quebec Bridge recently - very similar design and look (I'm repeating myself - better not get trashed for that...)
Interesting to read those stories about Rugby – glad you enjoyed that link – I chanced upon it but was pleased that I had. Look forward to reading your Bluebell notes in the fullness of time.
Tom – were you asking about UK Brake Vans and what they were, or have I misunderstood you? Brake Van is the equivalent of a Caboose as far as I know but maybe the Caboose has a slightly different purpose so I await to learn more. In UK, old trains did not have brakes on the wagons (apart from hand brakes for use in sidings) so the only other brake force than that exerted by the loco was provided by the guy at the rear of the train in the Brake Van – with a hand brake that he regulated to keep the wagons from bunching on the down hill so that the couplings did not snatch on the switch to uphill – when the risk of a broken coupling (and a potential runaway) might occur.
Lars – remembrance day theme – this reminds me of my recent Halifax trip – VIA staff were telling us how last year they ran a big consist for veterans to relive the Halifax Montréal Journey – this year I believe they were running the same for war brides – to celebrate the 60th anniversary since the arrival of war bride ships in Canada from Europe – did you know more about this Tom by any chance, given you keep an eye on Canadian matters? Rob you may have info from Canadian media perhaps? VIA staff made mention of how proud they were to serve on that train and how many people from communities along the line turned out to greet this special Ocean Train consist at all times of day and night. Mind you I hope the rude guy we had in the dining car was not on that shift - I doubt a vet would consider they fought the war just to get rude service back home 60 years later!!
Eric – yes the Narvik run was overnight in June – we had couchettes and I did the run with my father who was working in Uppsala for 6 months at the time. Good run – you have a lot of forest in Sweden, and a lot of lakes (and a lot of Mosquitos)! In Narvik we were in the land of the Midnight sun and I had never experienced that before – strange because I assumed before the trip (don’t know why) that at midnight it would at least get like dusk – but no – the sun is way above the horizon of course and just like full daylight – fascinating!
James – enjoyed your posts on the box cabs – this sort of thing is really informative for those of us whose knowledge of north American railroading is somewhat basic – thank you - keep it rolling.
I note some of the early RPO posting creeping in ahead of the big day too!
PS – you know how when people are in a bar talking about things they enjoy (eg sports for example) there may be some people in another location talking about exactly the same thing – or those people may go on to another place, meet some other people and talk about that they talked about earlier. Pretty shocking eh? must come as a surprise to think human beings behave like that (ie people all over the planet mentioning the same sorts of things via media they have available to themselves). I guess you know what I’m referring to here…..does anyone complain, I guess some do?
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Cloudy here today but much warmer than the past few mornings. Watched very little football Saturday and yesterday as yard work called. Leaves, leaves nothing but !@#$ leaves.
Rant for the day – I don’t know how you feel but I have had it with political ads. Local TV stations cover four states so we get ads from WV, VA, KY, and OH – ‘enuff, says I!
Lots to acknowledge and a few comments. So here goes. In no order, believe me.
Thanks to all for UK-related material. It’s always a treat to read about folk’s travels, different routes, etc.
Wow! We got a volunteer for the birthday list! I may be out of recovery in time for the next darts tournament.
Mike sent lots of links.
You can see what I like about Jack Delano’s pictures. The shot of the MILW obs. At CUS is one of the best I have ever seen.
The PRR shot of “Allegheny County” is a nice one as well. Gives the viewer a feel for the PRR in the postwar years; fascinating operation as long as one didn’t look “behind the curtain.”
The picture of B&O 1449 may be the train du jour on the Chicago-Miami route (i.e. South Wind, Floridian). A typical consist from that time period which made trackside trips in Nashville obligatory.
Also check out the interesting paint scheme of the lead F unit on the ATSF train.
Rob is back with material from Hamilton.
We hope Doug is feeling better; you’ll need a brace (no, Boris let’s make it a bracer) to lift your tax tickets.
Fine choice of movies. Strategic Air Command featuring B36s, KC97s, and the then new B47. The Blue Max was actually filmed with members of the Mentor Flying Circus. You read a bit about them in our darts coverage.
Barndad – Cider? We used to do that sort of thing in New Hampshire; saved some of it for later; it got right sharp come January. Also, many thanks for Chicago-related material.
Pete – Truly enjoyed the shots of the 4-6-0s from God’s wonderful Railway.
Lars’s bookmobile showed up. I enjoy seeing these covers as they serve as a checklist for materials in my collection. The Monon book is a good one.
Well, that’s about all from here for now. Must attend the hun’s parent/teacher conference(s) this p.m.
Work safe
P.S. We got our poppies when we made our biweekly trip to the Temple of Commerce (i.e. Wal Mart). Had ancestors in AEF and BEF.
Another Monday and a start to the work week for many. Why not join us here at the bar for some freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee – pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery and of course a selection from our Menu Board of <light> and <traditional> breakfasts
Looks like the rains that suddenly disappeared yesterday, may reappear today. No matter, my outside work is done, at least until the next ton of leaves winds up on the ground! <ugh>
Some acknowledgments since my final Sunday Post:
Doug at 11:35 AM yesterday: Too bad about the Bears – and to drop one to a team with a rather dismal record. Go figger, eh So, how was the flick – we’ve got both #1 and #2 on video and enjoy Tim Allen any where, any place, any time. We’re planning on seeing Flags of our Fathers, fer sure, fer sure – will be on the lookout for the IRM locos and cars.
Received your Emails and replied – looks like we’re moving ahead nicely with the 2nd Annual “Our” Place Classic Trains Rendezvous in St. Louis! As always, good Pix selections!
LOVE the dogs!
Pete at 12:43 PM yesterday: Appreciate the endorsement for the way we do things ‘round here. It simply astounds me how someone – anyone – can get their knickers in a knot over a Thread or two that they DO NOT participate in and then have the audacity to criticize them! Takes all kinds, eh Problem with putting them at the bottom of the sea is the oceans don’t need anymore pollution!
Nice selections from Allan’s UK shots! Also received your Email – but NOT the ones that were “missed” during the “block out”!
James at 3:59 PM and 5:04 PM yesterday: LOVE RDCs – just LOVE ‘em! Never get tired looking at ‘em, but the best times are traveling in ‘em! Nicely done Milwaukee Road News! So, did I miss something – where’s the Little Joe
Lars at 4:37 PM yesterday: Always enjoy the book covers – keep ‘em coming and screw those who have nothing but negativity in their finger tips. We play to one another here and the option always exists for those who don’t enjoy what we do to “hit the bricks”!
Doug at 5:17 AM today: Always a treat to have YOU begin our day here at the bar – seems rather “normal” and as it “should be!” Just when I think that “everything” has been covered on this Thread when it comes to Classic Trains, you come up with another great series (even if it is a “one parter”!) – Chicago Freight Subway! Never heard of such a thing – but, why not Makes perfect sense. Good show!
SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: This Friday and Saturday we will be encouraging Posts of any railroad related information that has a connection to the efforts of our respective Armed Forces during any of the wars to date. We celebrate Veteran’s Day in the U.S. – Remembrance Day in Canada and Armistice Day in the UK. So, let’s get on board with this! ENCORES! are encouraged!! Keep ‘em simple – stay away from the emotional ‘n let’s just see what we can come up with! Thanx.
Two Muffins were baking in an oven. One muffin turns to the other and says, "Holy moley it's hot in here!" The other muffin says, "Holy moley... A talking muffin!"
Now ... would you say that joke was "interesting", or a 4 on the groan-o-meter? Unfortunately, many of my jokes cannot be measured at all, as they frequently break the groan-o-meter. I think one of the springs is close to breaking now.
Great to see book pix from manager Lars yesterday. I wish I owned them all
Hey James! A guy asks his waiter how they prepare their chicken. The waiter says that there's nothin' special... we just flat out tell 'em they're gonna die...
Hear the springs straining? Here's a part-oner from me this morning:
An extensive freight tunnel system underlies practically every street in the downtown business district of Chicago. There is little evidence of the vast maze of entries undermining the streets from the surface, yet it has been said that one-third of all the team tunnel traffic has been removed from the street by means of the tunnel system. This underground narrow-gage railway taps the freight stations of practically all the steam roads entering Chicago, receiving and delivering freight at these stations for a large number of wholesale and retail mercantile establishments, by way of connections to the sub-basements under the buildings.
Freight train leaving Marshall Field & Company’s basement
It is of historical interest to note that in 1899 the Chicago City Council passed an ordinance granting the use of the streets to a telephone company to be operated in opposition to the existing Bell Telephone Company. Under this ordinance actual tunnel construction was started. In 1903 the original company was reorganized under the name of the Illinois Tunnel Company and received an amended ordinance permitting it to equip the tunnel with an electric railway for the transportation of freight. The original tunnel construction contemplated approximately 60 miles of single bore with such connections to railroad freight and passenger stations and large business houses as could be contracted for during the process of building. This mileage has been increased from time to time until it now totals 62 miles. In addition to the routes shown on the map there is also a short section of tunnel on Armour Avenue between sixteenth Street and Archer Avenue, which does not connect at the present time to the main bore.
Map showing the underground lines of the Chicago Freight Subway
The floor of the tunnel is, at an average, 42 ft. below the street level, or 28 ft. below the level of the lake. In order to reach all the steam-road trunk lines and large industrial centers, it was necessary to tunnel under the Chicago River at thirteen different points. Here the tunnel grade dips until it reaches a point 20 ft. below the bed of the river, or 65 ft. below the street level. The construction work was started in 1901 and was pushed as rapidly as possible. The soft quality of the material to be excavated and the fact that everything had to be handled from the surface until taps could be made to docks on the river and Grant Park on the lake front made construction extremely difficult. A large quantity of the excavated material was raised through shafts to the streets and hauled away in wagons, but the bulk of it was transported to scows on the river and through the tunnel connection to Grant Park, where it was used for filling. The work of excavating was done largely by miners, who were followed by concrete gangs. The material was loaded in small mine cars and hauled by electric locomotives to the dumping sites. The small cars enabled the installation of a system of derricks which lifted the cars bodily and dumped them at any point desired.
Freight train passing typical crossing beneath two intersecting streets
The tunnel and equipment were designed for freight service, and the only passengers handled are those accompanying an observation party. In addition to the classes of traffic mentioned, connections are made to the basements of building under construction, whereby the bulk of the excavated material and trash is transported to the tunnel company’s disposal station and dumped into the scows. Coal and ashes are handled in a similar manner. The trunk-line cables of the Illinois Telephone and Telegraph Company (the Automatic System) are supported on the walls and ceiling of the bore in the downtown district.
Belt conveyor formerly used to handle mail from tunnel to post office
The bore is horseshoe-shaped, 6 ft. wide, with 7 ½ ft. in clear height. In a few places the tunnel has been increased in size for special conditions to 12 ft. wide by 14 ft. high. The tunnel walls are solid concrete, 10 in. thick, without reinforcing. The track is constructed with a 2-ft. gage, using 56
G-day Tom and all present! Issue 2
Its that Time again, for.....
Milwaukee Road News
The Box Cab electric!
There where many names given to this locomotive. GE motors, Cabs, but Box cab seems to have stuck.
There were 4 different types of Boxcabs that the Milwaukee road produced. EF-1, EF-2, EF-3, and EF-5 series. The EF-4 was the Little Joe.
The EF-1, the picture shown above, was some of the first sets ever produced. First introduced in 1915, they proved liable to the railroad and helped out with passenger service. When first introduced, The Bipolar gearless electric, was already becoming old. So the EF-1 started to replace some of the older Bipolars. 12 where sent to passenger service and classified as EP-1s. This locomotive was given a reward for being the largest electric locomotive in the world, in 1919. Later, The Milwaukee found that these locomotives were well equiped for frieght movements and began adding them to frieghts going to and from Tacoma and Seattle. 25 or 30 of these were produced for frieght service.
This is the cab unit of the EF-1. The EF-1 consisted of two of these units.
The EF-2 was the second Boxcab set to come out.
Any combination of 3 cab units made up the EF-2. This was a way to bring out more power. These began appearing in 1930 with the increase of tonnage needed across the US. And with more to haul bigger and better locomotives were needed so the EF-2 was built. It wasn't untill the "B"unit came out that the Milwaukee had something going.
The EF-3 was the first Box cab to have a B-unit. (the one shown above) This B-unit had no cab and took in the electricity that the Cab units fed it. It was more effective than three cab units and actually saved some electricity when using these untis. They were used as helpers and as lead units on trains. But hwen The Milwaukee road first bought the little joes, these locomotives were not used as frequently for leading trains over the mountains. But when The EF-5 came out some things changed.
Photo from: http://www.trainweb.org/milwaukee/milwe45b.jpg
The EF-5 was the ultimate in boxcabs. Each section of boxcab had almost 1400 HP and 35,000 pounds tractive effort each. At some points the locomotives would reach a starting tractive effort at over 200,000 lbs per square inch. The Locomotives HP would vary when starting and cruizing. Sometimes each locomotive would put out more than 2000 HP per section and cruizing it would sustain its 1350 HP. The EF-5 would consist of any combination of Head unit and B-units. There were always 2 head unit. One at each end. But the head units would also be put in between each of the units. What ever combination of units was possible. They were used for helper service and also for leading trains over the mountains.
Just something for you to read.
First two pics from Wikipedia.
Happy railroading
G'day Captain Tom and fellow travelers waiting for the bar to open!
Thought I'd drop a few pix off today, but "things" got in the way. Didn't even get to watch any football - thus far! Anyway, here's a few that you've seen B4, but worth the repeat - except of course if you happen to be one of those people who never participate and THINK we are providing all of this for THEM and only THEM! Yeah, right.
Book covers from the Larsman!
Until the next time!
Lars
G-day Tom and all present.
Well. I am glad that Pete, Eric and Barndad, enjoyed the electric explanation. If you like that, then you're going to have to read the Milwaukee road news, Issue 2.
Rob- The Hamilton street railway article was very interesting. Some of the stuff mentioned I didn't know, like when they first started in the 1870s. Very interesting, Thanks for the article.
Eric- Yes sir, The room is good sized. It does work for what I want. But just wait untill I have a whole basement to myself. It's going to be a mountain range, with the Milwaukee written all over it.
Tom- 2000 hours...well.. I "think" thats a few more hours than I had. Good job though. The North Shore got 9550 volunteer hours put in this year. So thats a good amount.
Barndad- Your RPO story was very cool! It really gives you an idea what work would have been like, back then, on one of these cars. Very interesting. I would have liked to do something like this for awhile. It might have been fun.
BTW: Your jokes!! Those are deffinantly different! on those.
Now it's time for some photos.
Photo from:www.budd-rdc.org/
Photo by: Bevis R W King 2003
Some Via Rail RDCs. I haven't seen any for quite some time so I thought it time.
Photo from: www.nrhs.com/railfan/pictures.htm
Photo by: unknown
Got to get some Arkansas and Missouri Alcos in here somewhere. These C420s are rocken there way across Missouri with a grain train. They look to be in run 8.
Home alone this Sun so I will partake in the Brunch.
A good Encore day yesterday.. DOUG Great 2 part encore on the RPO s and the video links are wonderful, The LOGO beer song deffinatly sould be the Our Place Anthem "I could kiss and hug it, but I would much rather chugg it" Great.. The driving on the Midland Railway Centre at Butterley Derbyshire, a small but friendly line, they also have a narrow guage line using old mine cars. They also have a green burial ground next to the line so railfans can have their last resting place next to a steam railway.
TOM The German ICE is still a great read with the list of Railroads Officials. and with BK Sweedish X2000 encore.
Great links by MIKE and thanks JAMES for the info on the Milwaukee Electrics.
ROB thanks for the Hamilton Street Railway Encore another great read, and VERY much appriciate you getting the Poppies for us, Back in England the lady who used to come round our street with the poppy collection tin always used to save a small wooden cross with a poppy on it which the British Legion made for remembrance day.
Great start to Sunday Photo day DOUG with the old Chicago Instruction cars and Buildings, If there is any of the 40 gallons of cider left I think the bride could help you out.
Three great movies on again at the Emporium TOM, as already said James Stewart was a very talented actor.
I have had a look at the other site and can I just say how I totally agree with what LARS, BK and you have said TOM. And thanks JAMES for saying what, I believe we all think. If folks dont like what OUR PLACE is about they dont have to read it, all I know is it gives me a great deal of enjoyment and am privaledged to be a part of it.
Any way on to some pics, to start some of Alan,s from the UK this time.
AT the Foxfield Railway Staffordshire, England
A Kerr Stuart 0-4-0 Saddle tank works # 4388 used for shunting coal etc at the Stoke on Trent gas works. the diesel on the right is a Ruston & Hornby 4 wheel diesel machinical
0-6-0 Saddle tank loco Wimblebury of the Austerity class built by Hunslet of Leeds in 1956 as their works# 3839 it saw service for the National Coal Board.
A 4 Wheel Bagnall diesel hydralic #3207 which worked at a metal casting factory in Derby.
Two pics of Great Western 4-6-0 # 4965 Rood Aston Hall at Stratford-On-Avon on a railfan trip. These servaces are quite regular in the Summer months on a Sunday, running between Birmingham and Stratford.
Just caught your latest post DOUG. I will look out for the film and a great pic of the fox.
Pete.
Hello again Tom and friends. After the wife gets home, we're going to see the 3rd Santa Claus movie (providing that the Bears game is over). I couldn't help but notice that the new Clint Eastwood "Flags of our Fathers" movie has been released. You might recall that I did a little write-up on this thread concerning some of the IRM engines and cars that were used in the filming. So, be on the watch for IRM rolling stock if you see this film!
Kedzie Avenue carhouse, Chicago Railways
Typical storage bay at the Kedzie Avenue carhouse, Chicago Railways
Repair bay at the Kedzie carhouse, Chicago Railways
Chicago City Railroad test car with maximum traction trucks
Testing outfit installed in car 3701, Chicago City Railway.
When you are in deep trouble, say nothing, and try to look like you know what you are doing
A Sunday and the breakfast – lunch – brunch seems to have been accepted by the locals as the tables and booths are full. Boris ‘n gals are workin’ hard . . .
Somewhat of a departure from our more traditional Sunday bill o’ fare at the Saloon by the Siding for I see some Posts deserving of recognition!
BK at 11:29 AM yesterday: Nicely done ENCORE! and I too enjoy the “tale” from your rare but memorable rail adventure to Vancouver. [tup ] I have made so many friends over the years that have begun aboard trains – mainly VIA Rail. Some of these friendships go back over decades and to this day flourish. Nice, eh Thanx for the “rare” Saturday visit!
James at 2:04 PM and 9:30 PM yesterday: All of us are entitled to some “down time” from the Forums – in fact, it should be a requisite for all. Too much of anything can make one rather dull and narrow minded. Volunteering, eh I recall that not too many years back I gave 2,000 hours per year for a couple of years to our local PD. Now THAT’s a lot of hours. Nonetheless, it’s always a good thing to avail one’s self of time and effort to those where the need exists for help.
Lars at 6:55 PM yesterday: And the other “bookend” has been heard from! How long has it been where we’ve had the two of you on board for a Saturday Too long is the answer! I too recall the ICE and X2000 trains making their way to St. Louis in the 90s. The crowds were eager to board these magnificent creations and as with you, I wonder “how come” we (U.S.) didn’t pursue this technology further Don’t guess there’s an answer OTHER than to say that in absence of a National Transportation Plan – one with vision – that rightly should begin in the Congress – we’ll continue to muddle along with passenger rail service.
Thanx for putting together the “how we do things” once again – never hurts to Post the reminders.
Mike at 7:43 PM yesterday: Awesome display of URLs for one ‘n all to enjoy! Surely are the URLMeisterMonster of this Thread! Simply LOVE that last one with the Pennsy smoothsides!! <Ahhhhhhhhh> Email received and responded to - thanx!
Rob at 11:45 PM and 11:59 PM yesterday: He lives! Much appreciation for the two Posts and fine ENCORE! Too bad we didn’t have some extra time in Hamilton this past spring, as I surely would liked to have explored the area a bit. Anyway, it’s just astounding how many streetcar and interurban lines that once existed. Today, with a resurgence of interest, we see the modern light rail systems emerging throughout North America – only thing is the COST would gag a healthy maggot. Been there, done that on this Thread before, eh Good subject matter!
Catch my comments at the end of this Post regarding the continuing “flap” over the “ratings” et al!
Eric at 2:10 AM today: Thanx for your Email response to my 2nd Annual “Our” Place Classic Trains Rendezvous in St. Louis! Once the remainder of the interested guys respond, I’ll provide a follow up and so forth . . .
Check out these Pix from Eric on the ICE Train!! http://web.mac.com/ericx2000/iWeb/Sunday%20Picts/Sunday%20Pictures.html
Howdy-hi again gents! Hope your day is going well for you. I spent a part of yesterday at an apple-butter party at my uncles’ farm. His orchard doesn’t always produce enough apples to do this, as you start with 25 gallons of apple cider (he has an electric conveyor, grinder and hydraulic press), then add 3 bushels of cored and sliced apples. The recipe also calls for 10# of sugar, but he hardly puts any in at all. We have a very large copper kettle which is placed over a large wood fire that has to be constantly tended, and the contents of the kettle constantly stirred, so you need a lot of people to pull this off. We started cooking 7am, and finished near 8pm. We made about 40 more gallons of cider than we needed, which we drank all day long. Some jazzed theirs up with rum or other spirits.
Today, the wife is working till 3:30, I’m slipping out for breakfast and then to the stable to tend Apache’s stall. I’ll prepare my own firepit for some leaf burning, and tend to final yard duties at this property, working around the Chicago Bears game … of course. Thanks to Tom for bringing in the latest batch of Movies for the Emporium. Is there nothing that Jimmy Stewart cannot do?
Here are more photos of Chicago buildings that no longer exist.
General repair shops, Chicago Railway, at Seventy-eighth Street and Vincennes Road
Kedzie Avenue carhouse, Chicago Railways, showing termination of Van Buren St. line
Carhouse at Archer Avenue and Rockwell Street, Chicago City Railway
Typical employees’ clubroom, Chicago City Railway
A woman was having a passionate affair with an inspector from a pest-control company. One afternoon they were carrying on in the bedroom together when her husband arrived home unexpectedly. "Quick," said the woman to her lover, "into the closet!" and she pushed him in the closet, stark naked. The husband, however, became suspicious and after a search of the bedroom discovered the man in the closet. "Who are YOU?" he asked. "I'm an inspector from Termite Busters," said the exterminator. "What are you doing in there?" the husband asked. "I'm investigating a complaint about an infestation of moths," the man replied. "And where are your clothes?" asked the husband. The man looked down at himself and said, "Now you can see how serious the infestation is!"
Even though the bar at "Our" Place is
Closed on Sundays -
We do observe Sunday Photo Posting Day!
NOW PLAYING at the Mentor Village Emporium Theatre!
. . . Sunday, November 5th thru 11th: Strategic Air Command - Starring: Jimmy Stewart, June Allyson & Frank Lovejoy (1955) – and – The Blue Max (1966) - Starring: George Peppard, James Mason & Ursula Andress. SHORT: The Three Stooges – The Sitter Downers (1937).
Strategic Air Command (1955)
PLOT SUMMARY: A star baseball player is drafted into the service around the time of the Korean War and is trained as a test pilot for the SAC.
The Blue Max (1966)
PLOT SUMMARY: World War I drama involving a lower-class German aviator who comes into conflict with an aristocratic member of his squadron.
SHORT: The Sitter Downes (1937)
PLOT SUMMARY: Featuring Moe, Larry and Curly The Stooges are in love. After they arrive at their girlfriends' house they ask them to marry and the girls say yes. But "Papa" says no, so the Stooges stage a sit-down strike and stay in the house until they get the nation's sympathy. The father lets them marry, but they face a new problem; building their new home. The girls refuse to have a honeymoon until the house is finished. After the Stooges build the house, it looks just plain weird, and it falls apart.
The Stooges are in love. After they arrive at their girlfriends' house they ask them to marry and the girls say yes. But "Papa" says no, so the Stooges stage a sit-down strike and stay in the house until they get the nation's sympathy. The father lets them marry, but they face a new problem; building their new home. The girls refuse to have a honeymoon until the house is finished. After the Stooges build the house, it looks just plain weird, and it falls apart.
from: www.threestooges.net
Enjoy!
Okay ... now that I got that out of the way, I'll start to get the place ready for the morning eaters. We sure got a lot of interesting posts yesterday. The DB of Germany from Tom is most impressive, and thanks for the birthday list update. Looks like we only have CM3 left to remember in 2006. Thanks to those who congratulated me for assuming the watch over natal events, but the real credit goes to Tom for creating it in the first place. Glad ya'll liked the lego beer song and steam instruction link too. Makes my heart go pitty-pat to know you were entertained. Liked the X2000 ENCORE from BK yesterday. Tom provided a 1956 ad. Can I get your copy for the $3 you paid for yours? Thanks for the kind words Lars, and the updated weekly schedule. Uh oh. Looks like URL Mike posted new pix links on a Saturday. Are you trying to get in more trouble than me? Still .. they were great pix, and I was most impressed by James follow-up explanations of what we were looking at. Very impressive and interesting indeed! Great to see Rob and his HSR ENCORE yesterday. I wonder how many other railways started prior to 1900 still exist today. Here ya go Eric http://web.mac.com/ericx2000/iWeb/Sunday%20Picts/Sunday%20Pictures.html , and please accept a "WOW" from me for the excellent pix!
And now ...here are some pix from Chicago's past
Instruction car of Chicago Railways
Interior of instruction car, showing arrangement of apparatus
Double truck instruction car in Chicago City Railway schoolroom
Single truck instruction car in Chicago City Railway schoolroom
General view of the Chicago City Railway showing instruction cars and overhead construction
Sunday school teacher asked her class, "What was Jesus' mother's name?"One child answered, "Mary."The teacher then asked, "Who knows what Jesus' father's name was?" A little kid said, "Verge."Confused, the teacher asked, "Where did you get that?"The kid said, "Well, you know they are always talking about Verge 'n' Mary."
Good morning one and all! Surely enjoyed reading the posts after my last visit, and hope that boss-man Tom won't mind a slight break in Sunday protocol, but I didn't get the 2nd part of my RPO ENCORE uploaded after my busy day. So please forgive me .. but here it is:
Sorting on the Road by Don Rohrer – Rail Classics Jan. 1984 Two hours later I glanced at my watch. We should have been farther down the line by this time, running through Camp McCoy. “Can you see where we are?” I called down to Podratz at the other end of the car. I had noticed him clear a space in the door window with a small ice scraper. “We just went by Lake City,” he answered. “I’d better try the door,” Podratz said, but the action produced no result. The door was frozen solid, a common occurrence. Podratz kicked the door, futilely, before he removed an iron stanchion from an adjustable mail stall and used it to break away the ice from around the door. Using the stanchion as a lever, he pried the door open. Finally he poured salt on the tracks to keep them operable. By that time we should have been only a few minutes from Reads Landing, a non-stop. Podratz adjusted his goggles and peered out the doorway until he spotted his landmark, a large grain elevator. He laid the Reads Landing pouch and sack of newspapers across his right foot, then, and at an exact moment kicked them out. He’d raised the car’s hairpin-shaped catcher arm at the same instant and a sharp whack indicated that he’d caught his incoming pouch. Mission accomplished. All in a day’s work. “Still got your shoes?” Loney asked, in jocular reference to an occasion in which clerk Frank Hall had accidentally kicked off a shoe with the mail. Reacting quickly Hall had kicked out his other shoe, remarking laconically, "That way whoever finds ‘em will have a pair.” As we approached Winona, earlier focal point of the storm, the sun came out and melted the frost from the windows, and we were able to catch glimpses of the passing scene. We began gaining on the clock then, hurtling through smaller towns that were either serviced by us non-stop, or accommodated by the milk trains. We moved on apiece, stopping only at Winona, La Crosse and Portage. At each junction we exchanged mails with other mobile units. Waiting for us at Potage was an especially hefty load from Madison, home of the state capitol and the university. Concentration was required to cope with the job at hand, but there was an equal need for exchange of information. Questions and answers rang out continually. “What do we do with Des Moines now?” “Give me your Red Wing letters.” “Help! Help on the Manhattan letters!” “Check the balance sheet with me.” We swept through Sparta, Tomah, and New Bisbon in record time. The road bed there was one of the best. Continuing the fast pace we rocketed through picturesque Wisconsin Dells, the Horicon Marsh bird sanctuary, and lake-blessed Oconomowoe, and on into Milwaukee. We picked up our mail there and rushed on. On the way to Chicago we managed to complete our tasks, to tie and lock out our cases, and wash up and change clothes, just before arrival. Our engine crews had performed nobly. We had lost only 18 minutes, still in time to make most of our connections, the Pennsy’s Broadway, the B&O’s Capitol Limited, and runs for the Cincinnati, St. Louis, Kansas City, and Detroit gateways. Our only miss was the Lakeshore, the New York Central’s Twentieth Century Limited. Bright and early the next morning we would report back for work again, ready for the trip back, to “run for the barn.” RPO, 1864-1977 The first Railway Post Office operated between Chicago and Clinton, Iowa on the Chicago and North Western beginning on August 28, 1864. Shortly after World War Two, there were 1,500 RPO routes criss-crossing the United States with 30,000 men working in more than 4,000 RPO cars. By 1961, the number of routes had declined to 262 and ten years later only eight routes remained. The decline of the RPOs began in the late 1930s but was delayed when railroad traffic increased through the war. The sharp decline occurred in the 1950s when railroads discontinued passenger trains at a great rate. The last surviving RPO was between Washington and New York and it was discontinued on June 30, 1977.
Good evening gentlefolks and Leon. A large Guiness this evening for me and of coarse a nice thick juicy medium rare steak with extra mushrooms
Well it's been quite the week , I lost track at +60 hours. I'm glad that the presidents tour is done with, we as always passsed with fling colours ( she was only in the building for 10 minutes ) makes you wonder why they even bother comming out So now it's just the busy xmas season ahead.
Tom-Loved today's encores , I think I pick up more info each time I read your preperations ! Feel free to borrow any and all sayings I put out there, after all I've taken quite a shine to some of yours over the years. For the lack of support from the forum manager , at least you were able to aggree to dissaggree.I can tell that the JO's bug you less which is good, don't want the BP climbing at the end of the day.
BK-Nice to hear that you are all for what was traditions and the whole nine yards. I too have seen the slow and steady changes even here , I hope that the really off the wall extremism doesn't take route here but one never knows.I have a feeling that should we ever meet in the real world that we might indeed chat into the wee hours about old family histeries , histery in general as well as a host of other stuff. I do come from a long line of native born Canadian's and UEL's
Lars-I like your two day approach over the tenth and the eleventh, should work out well I thinkI will buy and extra 8 or so poppies this week for everyone, and when Heather and I next make it to Ottawa we will place them on the tomb opf the Unknown Soldier, a tradition that started quite unreheresd the first rememberance day after the new tomb was set up in Ottawa.
Eric-Perhaps the girls have defected I'd suggest that the Mom's get in touch with Vito's cousin who works at the Mentor town hall in the imagrations and records dept
Doug- Nice to hear that you may be in a bit more regularly,sorry to hear about the muscle pull though.I can only imagine what the anticipation level for the big move day must be like. Great encore's as well, good set up for next weeks RPO fest on tuesday Also gald to hear that you are taking on the Birthday list great for the moral around here to see others chipping in, good show.
Mike-great new batch of urls sir, seems to have caught young Jame's intrest. thanks for the link to the old Jumbo stroy again as well. Interesting to note that the Statue for Jumbo still stands in St Thomas, not far from where the accident took place.
Rob
G-day Captain Tom and all present.
Sorry, nothing for me tonight. I see that it's after 9 so there won't be anything.
Mike.... Wow! Very impressive pictures but, I think we need a little information behind some of those pictures!
The first Photo (Gene H. Lawson Milwaukee road pics) is of the Beverly Helper, As noted in the commentary. The locomotive in the picture is an EF-3, Two head ends and a middle B-unit. As stated it was used for helper service. Most of the time the locomotive would be spliced in the middle of the train.
You may also notice that the locomotive is painted in the black, maroon and orange. This was considered as the "Passenger scheme." Also, the early scheme before the black and orange. The black and orange didn't really come into affect untill the 60s.
The second photo (Gene H lawson pic) is quite rare. The "weird" Boxcab in the lead is actually a Westting House made locomotive. There were only a few of them made and they didn't go over well with the milwaukee, So forth the reason why you don't see them much. But the westting locomotive was equiped for passenger service and came in handy for a second locomotive if the first broke down. I am not fully acquainted with this electric and don't know a lot about them.
The third photo (Gene H. Lawson pic) is also pretty cool. This is the Chicago to Seattle Hiawatha. As you may notice, The EP-2 Bipolar electric # E-2 is coupled up to the observation car and is about ready to depart from Seattle, back to Miles city for locomotive swap. Miles city, Montana was the cut off of the electrics. After that it was diesels all the way to Chicago.
The fourth photo (Gene H. Lawson) is also a rare sight to see. Bipolars were epuiped for passenger service and nothing more but.. I see that this bipolar has a water tank and a caboose coupled up to it. So this is a rare sight. Even the commentary tells us that this electric for the day, was used for frieght service. Something new.
All your other pics are really cool too, just can't give you that small bit info on them. Oh well. If it has anything to do with passenger trains, I'm there.
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