G’day Gents!
Thursday at the Tavern by the Tracks - time for a hot mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee – some pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery – and of course a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board. Great way to begin the day, dontchathink
A strange thing happened when I logged in this AM - there were NO Posts from last night - nary a one. Then after I Posted this note, "wallah" a bunch of submissions appeared including the most current from DL. So, I'll get to the acknowledgments a bit later on!
Okay – remember, tonite is Fish ‘n Chips nite with at 5 PM. Also, we'
ve reached 8,500 Posts with NO WINNERS in the NOVEMBER CONTEST. However – I’ll spring for the drinks ‘n food today for each of you who participated!
Boris, serve ‘em all of the “spiked” OJ they can handle!
Remember: Ruth comes in at 9 AM and remains behind the bar ‘til Leon takes over at 5 PM!
Tom
Hello Tom,
I’ll join Pete with a Kimberley bitter.
Lars – thanks for your feedback – I sort of assumed Democrats would be more likely to support Amtrak, but appreciate the services are still far from ‘green lighted for investment’.
Pete – I’m told Garrett LMS locos were regulars out of Nottinghamshire’s Toton yards – before my time – interesting yard pic here – for those of you following the 3 coupled unfitted freight car discussion this gives an idea of the scale of the operation as late as 1952 http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10316231&wwwflag=2&imagepos=2
I’m sure those Royal Mail depots were paid for by Royal Mail – although presumably the railway benefited from the services not being at London stations any more. I guess the whole thing was planned prior to BR privatisation. There are some good interior pics of the depot on the TPO site I listed from a trip the webmaster got to do on board one of the runs.
APT / Pendolino: Mr Doe’s article in Rail Magazine Issue 551 states:
STARTS “On Sept 22 Virgin Trains achieved a remarkable non-stop run from Glasgow to London with a special train. The overall time was 3hr 55 mins 27 sec fro the 401.3 miles – a start to stop average of 102.2mph.
From the Network Rail internal log I find it took 2hr 25min from passing Carlisle to Euston (104.3mph); 1hr 57 min Preston to London (107.1mph) and a mere 73 mins Stafford to London (109.7 mph). The flying avg from Crewe to Watford was 113mph of which the 65.1 miles from Rugby was done in 33 mins (118mph)!
How sad, therefore, that Virgin spoiled the achievement by trying to re-write history. It took out a press release saying: “A tilting Virgin train yesterday outdid its ill-fated British Rail predecessor to set a new Glasgow-London speed record. In the early 1980s BR’ Advanced Passenger Train – later scrapped – did the 410 mile journey in 4hr 14 mins. Yesterday a Virgin train left Glasgow at 12.37 and got into Euston station shortly after 16.30, taking a record 3hr 55 min 27sec.”
The truth – which Virgin wants us to forget, or hopes we never knew – is that on Wednesday December 12 1984, without any of the subsequent West Coats modernisation, the APT travelled from London to Glasgow in 3hr 52 min 45 sec, reaching 137 mph en route. Yes, on the way back it took 4 hr 14 mins – with 2 station stops and a signal failure at Stafford! Yes, the APT was ill-fated and later scrapped, but it still holds the record. I am told Virgin had hoped for 3hr 50 min – but did it deliberately arrange a southbound attempt knowing that if it achieved 3hr 50 it could genuinely claim the record, whereas if it didn’t it could conveniently rubbish the APT’s southbound run and still claim a record, even though it’s a lie?
By doing what it did Virgin simply undermined September 22’s achievement, which is considerable given today’s lower top speed and abusier railway – albeit one on which vast sums have been spent.” ENDS
Tom – hope you enjoy ‘Buster’ – can’t recall how much rail sequences are in it, but it should have lots of period 1960s British detail. Given Rob’s comment I expect the film never made north American distribution. Nick – I have a fear that Mr Collins solo’d on the soundtrack to part of the film – I doubt you will approve, and indeed I share your concerns. Otherwise it should be a good watch.
Tom – my Scotland round trip in a day idea certainly does not replace a proper trip to Scotland – surely you know me well enough by now to realise this is simply an idea for an in addition – a quick 800 mile scenic day excursion if you like!
James – end of RPO mail in the USA vs UK – I expect this is partly due to the longer distances in the US being more suited to a switch to air carriage much earlier – distances in the UK are so short relatively speaking that air shipment does not make so much sense – although is used as part of the mix nowadays.
Mike – fair enough I had a few ideas for an RPO posting, but I did script up the stuff esp. for the day (being a newcomer to this Tavern I was cautious about making a suggestion for a theme day in case I’d not yet earned my stripes in that regard – but Tom seemed to think it was a good idea so I got my thinking cap on).
Nick – I don’t think I ever saw that layout near Purley – when was it there? Your mention of model maker LBSC is of interest however. In Beeston, Notts near here is the Myford lathe company manufacturing base. My father uses a Myford for model engineering purposes so if a spare part etc is required I get sent on errands to the sales counter – behind the counter is a superb model loco (it escapes me what it actually is at the moment – I’ll have to go back some time and have a look) – I’m sure the plaque on it says it was made by LBSC himself, not just made to his plans.
Incidentally – have any of you (with UK connections of course and an interest in modelling) ever visited the Basset Lowke house in Northampton? (which I believe has some BL models on display in its visitor centre) – some stuff here:
http://www.78derngate.org.uk/hist4.html
http://www.78derngate.org.uk/
Tom – I noted many of the ship models in the excellent collection at Halifax Atlantic Museum were originally BL models built for the shipping lines that owned the actual ships.
Pete – Kimberly location guide to follow.
DL
PS – I’m not a modeller so this may be a daft idea – but cork roadbed / damp probs – could you varnish it when you have it as you want it – like you might varnish a cork tiled bathroom floor to protect the tiles from water splashes?
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house.
Yes we have no bananas and some elegant train collections.
Nick, my little gal friday is still doing the Peppermint Twist.
Doug, before I forget, thanks for that New Albany & Salem 4-4-0. And a lot of other things too.
Eric, great Sunday pix, that city in Germany is what the Pennsylvania Railroad named Altoona, PA for.
DL, you were extremely well prepared for theme day, no wonder you suggested it!
CM3, good writing about Lionel, and by the way I sent your recent dispatches to the Pulitzer Prize committee. You may have to rent a tux.
James, electric locomotive 10200A, which I think it's the one known as E-50
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/mstrip02.jpg
There's a map and more old colorized pictures at this link.
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/mstrip.Html
Pete, here's a rail connection to John Logie Baird (1888-1946), inventer of the electomechanical television system demonstrated over 438 miles of telephone line between London and Glasgow in 1927.
http://johnlawontherails.fotopic.net/p28150279.html
Rob, for aviation fans, how about the Spirit of St. Louis
http://collections.mnhs.org/VisualResources/VRDbimages/pf121/pf121621.jpg
Tom, they had RPO/coach RDC on the Rock Island Line
http://www.cbu.edu/~mcondren/MRP/LAM-2006/RI9002.jpg
http://www.cbu.edu/~mcondren/FSVB/images/RI9003HoweArMay31_62.jpg
Mike
JAMES-nice pix mate -that white limestone ballast still looks weird to me but hey....different strokes and all that
At this point in time ,the only advice I can offer is :--take care mate,nick hey-I thought somebody checked that gas main.....
G-day Tom and all present!
Well After this post, only two more posts to go before 8500 posts!
Before you leave leon could I get a java with a splash of Vanilla, please. I will wash the cup out when I'm done.
Nick- Glad you liked the pics. The brand of cork board that I would recommend is Midwest Cork. My whole layout is made fo this board and like I said it is easy to apply. Your model pics are cool. You deffinitely have a big collection going. Very nice. Thanks for showing.
Rob- Glad you liked the pics. I see you know a little on the "Joe". You did know it was built for Russia. Just wait untill I post the majority of its history here. That should be pretty cool.
Pete- I see the Arkansas and Missouri link came in handy. I looked it over a little and seems to be pretty cool. And Yes, I think I will be riding it also someday. BTW: Interesting Robbery story. It would be quite scary to be the crue then. Do you know when this happened?
Barndad- Well I'm glad to see that my information and material is appreciated. I am always happy to see people interested in what I have to say, when it's informational of course.
Tom- Nice article on toy trains. Some of those toy trains are really wierd, like the CSX wood block that resembles Thomas the tank engine. Really neat info. Thanks.
CM3- Thanks for the comments on the pics. BTW: your model rr contribution was kind of funny. But you gave some good directions and I did find the models in my catalogue.
DL- An envelope would have been really cool. I don't think I have seen anything else from another railroad, except through pics. But it was interesting to learn that they were recently still using the mail car. That makes me wounder why our mail train system died out so long ago?
I think it's time for some more pics!
Model RR day!!
A 2-10-2 Duluth, Missabe and Iron Range locomotive. You would have seen one of these working an iron ore train back in the 40s and 50s.
Here we have two trains meeting each other. You could probably guess which is the yard transfer and which is the main frieght. But still a cool shot.
This time the shed is busier! The locomotive hostler is about to move the SD40-2 on to the farthest track toward the main line so that he can move the GP38-2 on to the first track for an oil change. This can take a few days. You can see the fork lift ready to move!
Happy railroading
James
Well good evening Gents-looks like we made half way to the weekend day again and all is well with the world ( or at least our bit of it...) Leon,beers for all please and have one yourself
First up :- an apology...MIKE-somehow,I inexplicably failed to note your fine submission yesterday...there was no slight intended,please forgive me...........<grovel,grovel>
ROB-an interesting piece on electric mail with your usual atmospheric pix to illuminate-nice one With regard to couplers we do seem to be catching on at last (excuse the pun) and buckeyes are becoming an ever more common sight-possibly `cos we are buying most of our new motive power from G.M these days............Now-med. school-I knew a lot of med students up at St Andrews uni back in the day and a sicker,weirder and more deviant bunch of freaks I have yet to meet.....sign me up,I`ve even got my own knives..
PETE-An interesting `take` on the theme-I never even thought of it-I too have a personal connection:-A small part of the proceeds from the robbery paid for the house I grew up in-for about 6 months after the robbery, a small van could be found around the back streets of the east end selling used ten bob notes at 4 for a quid-dad used to stop off there after his shift in the taxi and trade all his 1,5& 10 pound notes for double value in brownies before going back to the yard to pay in and pocketing the difference-The oul fella was a bit of a `spiv` in his day,bless him
DOUG-Some fine pix of a beautiful model--as a sometime carpenter myself,I especially enjoyed the shot with the outer panelling removed to show the arrangement of bracing and support timbers---Loved the `translations` by the way
TOM-A nice piece on the origins and early days of our hobby-that wooden CSX toy has oodles of charm I thought I have a couple of gauge 4 live steamers up in a cupboard awaiting completion which my parents `aquired` during a house move (another one of dads little scams I suspect). They were designed by a guy called `Curly` Lawrence,who wrote extensively in the `50`s & `60`s under the pen-name L.B.S.C.
By one of those weird 6 degrees things he lived not far from us and used to bring the prototypes of the two loco`s ( a G.W.R Hall & an L.M.S dock tank )to our infant school fete every year and give rides to the kids--DL might have seen his running track ,which was set up in his garden between Purley & Purley Oaks Stns,on the up side. As to DOUG`s translations,I emphatically deny everything-which brings to mind the worrying prospect of another mind as twisted and cynical as mine out there in the ether............................................. A last thought-your reference to beheadings calls to mind the scene in Pythons `Holy Grail` where Eric Idle`s character is dragged away by the Roman guards yelling " crucify a bit of sense into them,thats what I say"
CM3-A wonderfully lyrical memoir of the hopes and dreams of childhood -for me it was the Tri-Ang catalogue ,for you,Lionel but the vision was,I suspect,the same.....................Us Brits have always been at the cutting edge of technology and the like:- 3 link couplers,warm beer,pointed sticks,cricket ( in hindsight,a mistake..),self-propelled kettles,the Triumph Bonneville (one of our better ones ),woad,WEM & VOX amps,Francophobia...........
DL- Nice follow up to yesterdays theme-noted that the preserved TPO had the toilet windows plated over after the robbery-slightly but so pleased you refered to Phil Collins as the Genesis drummer (good player)and ignored his subsequent solo career ( an embarrassment to all right thinking muso`s )-you are obviously a man of taste
LARS-If the bar offers no hope of safety,please adjourn to the galley-It may resemble the secure holding area at Ellis Island at times but they don`t bite (often...) if that fails you would be more than welcome to come out on the road with us-I rather think it would give you some unmatched life experiences (Rob Reiners film "This is Spinal Tap" is probably the best reference I can provide)
Right,up to date-Leon,same again please old son and better break out the rum,this might take a while...
O.K-joining yesterday & today seamlessly together we have model T.P.O vans-the examples shown are from the Hornby Dublo and Tri-Ang ranges.
Of the two,the Dublo version was perhaps the most sophisticated-both the pick-up and drop off apparatus was on the left side of the car,which meant it could be used in a double track formation and it was activated by push-button solenoids so the scoop only worked when you pressed the button.
The Tri-Ang variant was purely mechanical,the under-car trigger hit a ramp which opened the appropriate door-the scoop was on the left and the thrower on the right -however the catching bin was too wide to fit between standard double tracks so to use it on a twin track layout required slewing one of the mains-easy enough with modern flexi-trak but a bit of a b****r with the fixed radius geometry of the time.
Also used in mail service,the full brake shown in the unattractive `corporate` blue grey colours-the rest of the Mk1`s are in there too
Onwards and upwards,here are the promised pix of the motive power fleet from my old Somerset & Dorset layout:-
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Right -to start with we have the `Western` engines:- from back left,`King` class-not appropriate for the route,but a 21st b/day present from my parents,14xx auto tank,20xx pannier tank,61xx prairie tank,Albert Hall,43xx mogul,22xx 0-6-0 ,44xx prairie tank [i mg][/img]
And the Midland engines,Duchess of Sutherland (again,inappropropriate but you find excuses....),4F,3F,Princess Victoria(with simplified valve gear & borrowed tender),1F half-cab with Belpaire firebox,2x ex L&Y pugs,Ji
Good evening Leon , I think a crown would go nicly right about now thank-you.So all seems well , bit slower today but that's to be expected we tend to slow down the day after a successfull theme day, no biggy we must all be enjoying the afterglow as it were.
Tom-Six degrees you say , remember though I'm in Canada so it's metric thanks for the url though interesting stuff. I figured that i would put in my over on the other thread, I know it's all done and all for not now but I like keeping up my end.At least you know that most of us have your back as they say.
Dl-Thanks for the clearing up of the movie. Like Tom I had not even known about the Buster movie, it's very likely that it didn't make it over here , at least now I can keep an eye out for it.great follow up on the disposotion of the TPO cars today. It's just "wunnerfull" how the topics keep on going around here.
Doug-Interesting RPO shot and I have to say that today's joke was the best list of that sort I've seen in a loooong time. BTW make sure you've had all your shots you wouldn't want to give Juneau anything when he "chews" on you in May
Pete-I'm gald you enjoyed number 35, I enjoyed typing it twice A group did save the body of number 1 last I heard it was in various states of dissasembly at the steam and tech museum in Ottawa.
Lars-Try laying low in Boris's shed, since it's been cleaned out he has more room. that and he's installed a Hogan's Hero's like periscope to check things re people out.
CM3-Great rehash of the ole Lionel story you posted before. isn't the search function on this site absolutly marvelous I find myself writing down the pages I post anything repost worthy, thatvway I just type in the page number in the search line. I've given up on using the search features on this site months ago.
Rob
Good Evening Gents!
Things are settling down the “day after” as those of us who vote and pay attention to what is going on in government begin to absorb the ramifications of the election. Life will go on and perhaps something good may indeed come out of all of this. One can only hope!
THANX to CM3 at 9:00 AM – DL at 12:03 PM – Lars at 2:47 PM ‘n Pete at 5:48 PM for the Posts for today.
Messages received regarding the “flicks” for the Emporium – watch for ‘em! Thanx to DL I’ve researched “Buster” and ordered it for our home library of movies! Never knew it existed! Have the other one in our collection and it’s a “goodun” – my wife thinks ANYTHING with Sean Connery is worth the price of admission. <geesh>
By my count only FIVE more Posts are needed to reach the “magic” 8,500 mark! So, that’s maybe tonite or most certainly tomorrow – November 9th. Therefore, no winners in the CONTEST – however – drinks ‘n food will be on the house for ALL who participated! Tomorrow happens to be Fish ‘n Chips Nite too! at 5 PM and of course, watch for Nick’s Picks!
Seems I neglected to answer a question from BK – Yes, Spirit of St. Louis Airport is about 5 miles from where we live. It’s a rather busy airport for this area and in fact is the largest “small” airport in the state – traffic wise. Should you decide to attend the Rendezvous and come by private aircraft, let me know. I have a friend or three who may be able to “cut you a deal.” More by Email if you wish! Like to keep the particulars out of the Ether.
Another missed comment - For Doug: Glad the CORK ROADBED info was useful for you as well. As with most things like this – one size just doesn’t “fit” all (circumstances). There may be a way to prepare the cork to prevent the expansion and contraction problem that I encountered – don’t know.
DL: I’m positive that we wouldn’t be making a daylight round trip to/from Scotland. Nope – definitely want to spend at least one night in country. However, the info you provided has gone into the “folder”!
Nice accounting of and for those TPO cars. What a pity to have shelved such an impressive mail system. But costs to government, the world over, seem to be much higher than to private concerns. And that speaks volumes, eh
Here’s a URL from the Halifax Chronicle Herald on that special train we’ve been discussing:
http://www.halifaxherald.com/Search/539401.html
Finally, CM3: I really enjoyed that rerun of yours on the Lionel catalog. I recall the first time you Posted it and found it to be just as heart warming the second time ‘round!
Leon, give ‘em one on me and Boris – ring the bell!
Hi Tom and all.
A pint of Kimberley Bitter or Mild please........ BORIS. Oh you say RUTH is doing a stocktake with LARS, Ok but I hope Tom doesn't Find out.
A really Excellent Theme day yesterday
JAMES thanks for the Arkansas & Missouri link. I will have to see if I can get down to have a ride on it some day.
Great RPO pics.
NICK The model TPO pics reminded me of one of my early friends having the one pictured, I think he had a Duchess loco hauling the working model and we spent many a happy time watching it. Good to see the model cars in B Rail livery.
We had one Garrett working through Rugby which came off the Midland line from Leicester although I cannot remember it myself. I was told that it loaded to over 100 coal wagons, I believe it came from a colliery in Nottingham shire to a Power station on the West Coast line on the outskirts of London. The problem of the loops on the East Coast line to London also caused the two Gresley Booster fitted class P1 2-8-2s not to be used to their full potential.
As to Trap and Catch Points, my only guess is that trap points led to a sand trap whereas catch points just derailed the run aways.
Heres a question.Do you know what Scottish railways had to do with the birth of television .
Great pics of Landore depot. I can recall visiting there in the days of Hymeks and Westerns.
ROB Thanks for making sure we got the Classic Juice #35 a great read. The Ottowa Royal Mail car #1 is a splendid car. I dont suppose it was saved but it would be a great replica to build.
DOUG The more I see the more I MUST visit the IRM. Do you know when the last Worlds Fair was held in Chicago. Perhaps one day they will hold a large railroad exhibition there again one day.
In the man's guide to female English, one should be."You know very well what you have done to upset me" ,when the man hasn't a clue what he has done.
CM3 Glad you liked the Great Train Robbery . The Christmas model railway catalog brought back a few pleasent memories. It seems railfans are the same the world over on railfan trips, it was even more so in the UK in the days when compartment coaches were used on the trips seating six in each compartment.
DL Great idea for the RPO/TPO day.
With the Distribution depots I was wondering who payed for them. I think the Royal Mail was fortunate that there were other freight companies on the railways besides EWS, I heard that the Christmas Mail in 2004/5 was impossible to deliver without some of it going by rail.
Another anecdote to your one on the great train robbery, I saw a documentary which had some of the robbers talking after they had done their time. At the farm hideout some of them were digging a hole to bury some of the evidence. The guy whose was supposed to drive the loco for them thought at one point it was a grave for him.
On a more serious note, I read at one time there was a campaign to get a locomtive named after the driver who was hurt in the robbery. I dont know if this happened or not.
Can you help. I had a talk to my friend in Rugby and they are planning a visit to Nottingham to get some Kimberley beers again while they can. Do you know of some good Kimberley pubs on the Tram route or in the city centre.(Alan has stopped buying Greene King as a protest).
LARS The piece I read just said that a large amount of the money was never recovered from the robbery.If I remember right a mail sack of the loot was left in a phone box.
Of course nowadays the banknotes have a completly different design to the ones used in 1963, in fact the one Pound note has been replaced with a coin. I still have a 5 Pound note from that era, they were quite a work of art.
TOM It seems as though we could have a Mail Train special at the Emporium. With Sean Connery and Donald Sutherland in the First Great Train Robbery then Buster, with the Night Mail as the short. There must be some good N.American films that involve Mail trains as well .
Thanks for the model scale and history Encore. I wonder what the early producers of the toy trains would say if they could see the detail (and the price) of some of the locomotive models produced today.
Well I see that LEON has arrived so I will try a Kimberley Bitter this time and a round please.
Pete.
<psssssssst> <pssssssst> <over here> <over here> <No, No, don't say anything!> <Just nod your head> <Is it safe for me to come over to the bar?> <No one waitng for me, huh??>
Greetings Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!
<phew> This is getting a bit ridiculous having to scurry about as if I'm escaping the law! Can't get into the details, gents, however, let's just say I'm ducking the Mrs. these days and the only place I know to get a bit of sanctuary is right here at "Our" Place! <grin>
Ruth my deAH you are such a radiant young lady! Must've been the "glow" of yours that melted all that snow we had yesterday. Can't even spot a trace of it today. Oh well. Set 'em up on me and I'll have a double JD on the rocks if you please. Nothing to eat today, thanks.
In no particular order, let me get to some comments on the posts:
DL - Amtrak will benefit from the change in Congress. The current administration hasn't been friendly to Amtrak, whereas the opposition has. Does this mean "big things" in store for the struggling rail service Nope - but it may assure continued funding to keep putting bandaids on the sucking chest wound! <ugh> That's
Nick - yes, I'll take you up on that suggestion! However, SHE has been here B4 and in fact KNOWS where to look! <groan> Maybe I should sign on as one of your "roadies," what say you
Rob - stern sections, transoms - they all equate to the same thing, huh <grin> Distrations, distractions - ain't it wunnerful
Pete - a great tale about the train robbery. The movie "Buster" that DL mentioned was "news" to me - although it IS available on amazon.com. Getting back to the incident, do you happen to know how much money is still unaccounted for
CM3 I'm NOT Shane! - That's a fine piece on the Lionel Catalog! Brings back so many thoughts of times gone by and dreams of having all the trains in those glossy pages!
Cap'n Tom - all of your posts are always motivational to many of us who frequent these premises. Let there be no doubt who the navigator of this place is and has been! Anyone who fails to note that without your contributions and daily efforts to keep things going, this bar would in fact be long relegated to the far back pages of this forum.
To all who provided pix, narratives and URLs for the Tuesday Theme - well done!
I'm in need of a refill!
Until the next time!
Lars
Good afternoon Tom and all in. Hope you'll permit me to reflect on some of the previous posts from RPO day.
I’ll have a pint of pint of bitter please, too.
Looks like the RPO day went well – a great spread of contributions – really increased my knowledge.
Doug – thanks for your kind comments about my submission, but others were of its equal (Rob’s streetcar / electric one being particularly interesting to me).
James – yes, good point 2003 not very long ago – had I made the acquaintance of the regulars here at that time it would have been my pleasure to post a note on one of those final TPOs to ensure all you regulars could have had a final TPO postmarked envelope, but those days are no more.
Mike – superb jpeg links – really good quality pictures – enjoyed them.
BK – nice pics of the UK class 325 electric royal mail unit. By way of background these are the vehicles bought in the 1990s investment programme I mentioned – they can run on 25KV ac electric pick up, 750V dc third trail pick up (in south of England) and can be hauled by a diesel locomotive giving them access all over the country. They are van trains though so often seen in daylight (as Pete mentioned).
You asked what had happened to all the vehicles – well the 325 units are (mostly) back in service carrying mail again – crewed by a different company than EWS – which gave credence to the suggestion that Royal Mail scrapped the whole thing just to get out of the EWS contract they had signed. The TPO sorting cars and hauled vans (GUVs) mostly got parked up in sidings after the immediate contract end, and no doubt many have gone for scrap (I saw quite a few of them parked up near Bristol back in June – covered with graffiti and generally looking neglected) – some have gone for preservation. The TPO cars dated from the 1950s and 1960s so there was an issue about whether replacements would be built (that could have ran at the 125 mph speed of the locomotives EWS bought to haul these trains) but I guess Royal Mail did not want to pick up the costs of that investment.
The newish mail distribution depots are not lying empty – maybe worse – they turned most of them over to road haulage – filled over many of the railway lines inside too.
Nick – yes say the word if you get thinking about that Scotland by sleeper trip – just a quick run down on the intricacies of the UK advanced ticket purchase system which those of you lucky enough to be able to get Brit rail passes don’t have to worry about!
Tom – yes sleeper one way to Scotland, daylight the other is a good option. Of course with the luxury of the Brit Rail pass you can ride any train – perfectly possible to do an out and back to south Scotland at least in a day – if riding the rails and taking the scenery in is an aim. EG the 9am departure from London Kings Cross on the LNER ‘east coast route’ arrives Edinburgh at 13.40 and Glasgow 14.46. The 15.10 departure from Glasgow arrives London Euston 20.25 via the LMS ‘west coast route’. In May-June it would be daylight all the way. When I had my BR staff pass I used to do those sort of expeditions just to see the countryside! A lot of fun, and pretty relaxing too sitting there watching the world go by!
Rob – I think you’ve mixed up the 1979 Connery Film ‘The Great Train Robbery’ – set in 19th century (I think this is fiction but I’m not sure), with the 1988 Film of the 1963 so called ‘great train robbery’ Pete mentioned (which is called ‘Buster’) – ‘Buster’ Edwards – one of the robbers- is played by Genesis rock group drummer Phil Collins in that one – I wonder if it ever screened in the USA as I think it was a modest budget UK made film. (see www.imdb.com) – I’ll add some trivia to Pete’s contribution which may be of interest.
Firstly though Pete – thanks for telling that story – a nice addition to the posts – raises some interesting points which touches on Tom’s point about it being a ‘romantic episode’ – this is rather interesting because you are right Tom – it has gone down in UK folk history in that way – not least I suspect because they robbed a train of used bank notes being taken for incineration – hence many felt there were no ‘victims’. However, in contrast to your assumption Tom, sadly Driver Mills was badly injured and never returned to work – he died in 1970 without ever having made a full recovery and his family always maintained his death was because of this incident.
Other anecdotes about this include
- the fact that the robbers recruited a retired driver to drive the train forward to a convenient unloading point after they had captured it – turned out he was a steam driver who had never trained on diesel locos and he could not get it going! – robbers had to revive the injured Driver Mills and force him to move the train against his will, it can’t have helped the guy.
- After the robbery TPO window sizes were reduced to aid security (I learned this on the TPO website I posted yesterday so others may have seen this too).
- For the Film ‘Buster’ a preserved English Electric Class 40 diesel of the same design as used on the 1963 train was painted up to be the loco Pete mentioned which was in the incident. This was done where they filmed the recreated TPO train on the Great Central preserved line in England – previously mentioned on these pages.
Some good info here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/caseclosed/greattrainrobbery.shtml
Maybe ‘Buster’ can be a future screening at the picture house Tom?
Pete – I’ve dug out the article on the APT / Pendolino record runs – I’ll transcribe it in due course (not too long an article).
Lars and Tom, you’ve both mentioned the voting – without straying on to politics I have to tell you we’ve heard plenty about this election this side of the pond too! This was being talked about at home the other day and I said the only aspects of US govt policy I had much knowledge of was your foreign policy (because we get plenty of coverage of that here) and the impact on Amtrak! – so if you want to give us some info what is your take on the election result vis a vis the prospects for Amtrak? (or is that a customer stampede for the door I hear…)
All the best - DL
G'day Gents!
Something from our past to commemorate this "Toy 'n Model Trains Day!" here at the Saloon by the Siding!
First Posted on Page 321, 03 May 2006:
My contribution to this, our first “Toy & Model Trains Day!” (formerly: Pike Perspective’s Day!)
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.
Toy train
A toy train is a toy that represents a train, distinguished from a model train by an emphasis on low cost and durability, rather than scale modeling. A toy train can be as simple as a pull toy that does not even run on track, or it might be operated by clockwork or a battery. Many toy trains blur the line between the two categories, running on electric power and approaching accurate scale.
Standards
The first widely adopted standards for toy trains running on track were introduced inLeipzig, Germany in 1891 by Märklin.
Name . . . . . Width . . . . . Width . . . . . size . . . . . . . . . . Comments
gauge . . . . . (metric) . . . . (imperial)
Number 5 . . . . 120 mm . . . 4 ft 5/8” . . . 1:8 . . . . . . . . . . Also known as V Gauge.
Number 4 . . . . . 75 mm . . . 3 in. . . . . . 1:11 or 1:20 . . . . Also known as IV or 3 gauge. Measurement is sometimes also quoted at 2 15/16 in.
Number 3 . . . . . 67 mm . . . 2 5/8 in . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . also known as III, II, IIa gauges
Number 2 . . . . . 54 mm . . . 2 1/8 in . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . also know as II gauge.
Number 1 . . . . . 45 mm . . . 1 ¾ in . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Also known as I gauge.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Used by modern G scale.
Number 0 . . . . . 35 mm . . . 1 3/8 in . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Introduced later, around 1900. This is modern O gauge.
Märklin measured the gauge as the distance between the centers of the two outer rails, rather than the distance between the outer rails themselves. Lionel's Standard gauge is allegedly the result of Lionel's misreading these standards, as are the variances in O gauge between the United States and Europe.
Most of these standards never really caught on, due to their large size, which made them impractical to use indoors, as well as the high price of manufacturing. Wide gauge trains, which are close in size to 2 gauge, are produced in limited quantities today, as are 1 gauge and O gauge trains. Of these, O gauge is the most popular.
An O gauge Marx toy train set made in the late 1940s or early 1950s.
GNU Free Documentation
The modern standards for toy trains also include S gauge, HO scale, N scale, and Z scale, in descending order of size. HO and N scale are the most popular model railway standards of today; inexpensive sets sold in toy stores and catalogs are less realistic than those sold to hobbyists. O gauge arguably remains the most popular toy train standard. Another size that is attracting interest among hobbyists is building and operating trains from LEGO, or L gauge, which is roughly 1/38 scale.
Although the words "scale" and "gauge" are often used interchangeably, toy train manufacturers have only recently concerned themselves with accurate scale. The terms "O scale" and "S scale" tend to imply serious scale modeling, while the terms "O gauge" and "S gauge" tend to imply toy trains manufactured by the likes of Lionel and American Flyer. While S gauge is fairly consistent at 1:64 scale, O gauge trains represent a variety of sizes. O gauge track happens to be 1/45 the size of real-world standard gauge track, so manufacturers in Continental Europe have traditionally used 1:45 for O gauge trains. British manufacturers rounded this up to 1:43, which is seven millimeters to the foot. U.S. manufacturers rounded it down to 1:48, which is a quarter-inch to the foot. However, most engaged in a practice of selective compression in order to make the trains fit in a smaller space, causing the actual scale to vary, and numerous manufacturers produced 1:64 scale trains—the proper size for S gauge—in O gauge, especially for cost-conscious lines.
Some of the earliest O gauge trains made of tinplate weren't scale at all, made to unrealistic, whimsical proportions similar in length to modern HO scale, but anywhere from one and a half to two times as wide and tall.
Some adult fans of toy trains operate their trains, while others only collect. Some toy train layouts are accessorized with scale models in an attempt to be as realistic as possible, while others are accessorized with toy buildings, cars, and figures. Some hobbyists will only buy accessories that were manufactured by the same company who made their trains. This practice is most common among fans of Marx and Lionel.
History
Toy trains can be enjoyed by both children and adults. (Fair Use)
The earliest toy trains date from the 19th century and were often made of cast iro
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Lots of fine RPO-related material yesterday; leading off with Tom’s survey/summary.
Mike provided some interesting pictures. The Belfast and Moosehead Lake RPO was a fine example of older RPOs. The Hannibal and St. Joseph had the first RPO service, IIRC. Last the NYC streamlined car brought back lots of memories. I am going to have to dig around in the stack of stuff, but I think that car may have been built for the Empire State Express.
The NYC RPO ad was part of a series that the railroad ran during WWII. The ads covered a “typical” NYC train from front to back. The one that dealt with the NYC dining car service was probably the best of the group.
DL and BK posted all kinds of interesting material. I had forgotten about the Auden poem until I started reading through it; then it came back to me. Now, I have to go find my John Masefield material and go “sailing.”
James – Thanks for RPO material
Nick was here with pictures (real and model) of all sorts of technological wonders.
Rob provided electric mail information. I especially enjoyed the shot of the RM car in Ottawa.
Pete – The Great Train Robbery – good one! Maybe we can get a screening at the Mentor Theatuh.
Last thanks to all for kind words re Boston RPOs. The B&M was not the only road that had RDC4s, of course, but they were the ones with which I was most familiar. I had the delightful experience of riding in one on one of my few “railfan” excursions. We rode from deepest Vermont back to Boston via the Hoosac Tunnel. Rode in what used to be the RPO “apartment” most of the way back. Fellow passengers included more than a few B&M veterans – lies, !@#$ lies, and tons of “war stories.” Sort of like mariners (no offense, Tom) or a bunch of miners getting together.
Today is model day. Craig Wilson’s column in today's USA Today talks about Lionel trains. The writing is sort of a cross between nostalgia and the Addams Family, but it’s a lot of fun.
Following is a repeat of an item I submitted abt. this time last year – OMG! Was it hard to find in the archives as the forum’s search feature is a bit clunky.
Anyway – here ‘tis.
I went to the Post Office this a.m. and the box was full of catalogs which sent me to the notebooks. Hope it ties in with model rr Wednesday. The catalogs come in November, just as they have for years. The catalogs are books that deserve serious study. The catalogs mean that Christmas is coming. The Lionel catalog is the one that gets the most attention. Its glossy pages contain enough railroad-related material to satisfy Commodore Vanderbilt and all of his vest-wearing, watch chained, cigar-smoking lackeys. Look, here’s a Pennsylvania Railroad steam turbine. On the next page is a Tuscan red GG1 electric with a set of Pennsy passenger cars. My father tells me that they look just like the ones he rides to Washington. I want to go to Washington, too, and see the “Congressional Limited” as it passes along the tidal basin by the cherry blossoms – at least it does in the catalog. Here’s a GP7 in red, black, and silver from the Burlington Route set against a generic picture of the heartland. Turn the page and there’s some EMD switchers decorated for the Seaboard Air Line and for the Central Railroad of New Jersey. My, what we could do with a set of those. Then there are lovely F units in Santa Fe red and silver war bonnet paint and on the next page a pair of Fs for the New York Central. You can get freight or passenger sets with these. Right after that is a monstrous FM Trainmaster lettered for the fearsome, far away, Virginian. Toward the back of the book is page after page of freight cars of all types. Then there are pages of passenger cars. The very back has track, accessories, and transformers big enough to power a small city. It’s pretty simple: we want it all. And why not? Christmas is, after all, a time of renewed hope and possibility.
Work safe
Mid-week here at the Bar by the Ballast and time for a hot mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee – some pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery – and of course a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board. Great way to begin the day, dontchathink
“They” were incorrect, there is no fog and the sky is mostly blue with temps on the rise. We’re firmly in the grip of fall here in mid-continent USA as the brilliance of the turning leaves has turned to mellow hues that are rapidly rushing to brown – and the ground! <groan> Heard that petrol has risen 20 cents for no explained reason – oh, wait a minute – the election! Yup, that’s what done is in.
Thank heavens this round of political theatre has concluded. While I’m no fan of the victors, I respect the results. That’s what separates us from those who decide to take to the streets and behead the opposition. Think about it.
Editorial comment: I am noticing a “slippage” in the recognition of the other guy’s Posts. Not yet a major “deal” but evident nonetheless. No need to rehash each ‘n every submission to infinity, however, when someone makes a comment pertaining to a subject of yours – or directs a word or two your way – then it is expected that a response is warranted. Thanx!
Reminder: The Birthday Watch List has been Posted – any changes or additions to it should be directed to me via Email. Include the Month – Day – Year of birth if you want to be added. I will ensure that Doug, the B’day Watch List Whip gets the info . . . . Thanx!
Now, time to get to the acknowledgments:
James at 7:41 PM yesterday: Yes, we are a Thread where dialogue is the most important aspect of what goes on here. One asks – many seek to respond. It’s a two-way street. One-way Posters are unwelcome – always have been and always will be. It’s the way we do things here at the Tavern by the Tracks.
Thanx for the RPO Pix!
Nick at 9:45 PM yesterday: Glad the info on the CORK ROADBED may be of use. Again, just figured you’d find my experiences of interest.
Enjoyed the Toy ‘n Model Trains Pix along with the TPOs and couplers. Very diverse, very informative and very timely! Surely indicative of one who reads the Posts!
Rob at 10:09 PM, 10:47 PM and 10:59 PM yesterday: Glad you were able to resubmit your RPO info – great stuff and I enjoyed the narratives. Well done! As always, your inclusive Post sets a fine example of the manner in which we try to interact ‘round here. Can’t emulate what you do unless one is willing to go back on the Pages to the last Post one makes and pick it up from there. Seems elementary, eh
Caught your comments over on “my other Thread.” Doubt they will make a dent – the JO has done his damage; Kalmbach doesn’t care; and life goes on. The “blem,” however, remains as vivid recognition of a system gone wrong.
And by the by – it’s SIX DEGREES OF SEPARATION! Check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation
Pete at 10:17 PM yesterday: Loved the story regarding The Great Train Robbery! A shame that the engineer had to receive a beating, but I take it he survived. Anyway, there’s something “romantic” about episodes like that – kinda like Jesse James and so forth. Criminals, absolutely, but the story line is enthralling nonetheless.
Glad you made it back –
Good morning Tom and friends! Everyone all bright –eyed and bushy tailed? I’ll have the usual two light breakfasts on this unseasonably warm November morning. Quite the outpouring of fantastic RPO posts yesterday, with all contributors outdoing themselves, as has become the “norm” on this thread! Outstanding work gentlemen! Tom got us started with a great-looking Wikipedia post. I had no idea that there were post offices on boats too! Good thing we have several museums across the country that have preserved some of these railcars, or obviously, there wouldn’t be any RPO cars left at all. At the IRM, there are five. Three of them are used for our gift and bookstores. Here’s a picture of one we’re not using:
Juneau in a snit? Didn’t men to cause any such thing with my half-breed post of yesterday. He can “chew” me out in person this coming April. By the way .. sure appreciated the discussion on cork roadbed. I thought it was pretty slick stuff until reading your post. Guess I’ll be going with foam.
CM3 provided some RPO routes as well as amendments to the half-breed list. Glad you liked the mine cars. Thanks for the wonderful TPO robbery story posted later!
Wow DL !! What an incredible post! Truly amazing stuff in every way sir! A first hand story of the last days of the TPO with incredible links. You get my vote for “best post ever”. Thank-you so much for taking the time to put it together for us!
Great pix from BK, courtesy of Lydia. Glad you liked the subway post. It occurs to me that this same type of system must have been built in other large cities too. Could be interesting to find out! Maybe manager Lars even knows of a book or two on the subject? Good RPO stuff from you too as well, sir. Please keep the cold weather there until after I move. Great to see Rob yesterday. Sorry you lost your post, but you sure made-up for it! Hope you’re feeling better and thanks for the kind words Pete! Enjoyed several great URLS from Mike on our topic. Great stuff as usual! James is certainly making a place for himself in our little bar, and has been providing excellent material as well. Great to have you on-board sir. I see sir Nick made it in as well, with a nice collection of both model and prototype pix. Outstanding stuff to you as well, sir. I believe we had a really great theme day ... one of the best!
Here’s a little something from the pages of March 1964 Model Railroader (that I hope ya’ll can see:
It is quite possible that this Milwaukee Road mail car was built in 1893, for the scale model (also built in the CM&StP shops) was named Grover Cleveland. Cleveland was inaugurated for his second term as President in 1893, and that was also the year of the world’s fair in Chicago for which this model may have been built as an exhibit.
The structural drawings were made by J. Harlod Geissel, working from the photos and the best data he could find.
The nomenclature drawing of the passenger car came from the Milwaukee Road’s Car Department Handbook of 1922, but the car is obviously one designed in the 1890’s. In later years some of these cars were rebuilt with steel underframes. Those RPO cars without steel underframes bore numbers in the 1500’s and those with steel underframes (and steel wheels in the place of cast-iron) were numbered from 1600. These cars weighed around 48 tons.
THE MANS GUIDE TO FEMALE ENGLISH
We need = I want
It's your decision = The correct decision should be obvious by now
Do what you want = You'll pay for this later
We need to talk = I need to complain
Sure...Go ahead = I don't want you to
I'm not upset = Of course I'm upset, you moron!
You're ... so manly = You need a shave and you sweat a lot
You're certainly attentive tonight = Is sex all you ever think about?
I'm not emotional! And I'm not over reacting! = I've got my period
Be romantic, turn out the lights = I have flabby thighs
This kitchen is so inconvenient = I want a new house
I want new curtains = and carpeting, and furniture, and wallpaper.....
I need wedding shoes = the other 40 pairs are the wrong shade of white
Hang the picture there = NO, I mean hang it there!
I heard a noise = I noticed you were almost asleep
Do you love me? = I'm going to ask for something expensive
How much do you love me? = I did something today you're really not going to like
I'll be ready in a minute = Kick off your shoes and find a good game on T.V.
Is my butt fat? = Tell me I'm beautiful
You have to learn to communicate = Just agree with me
Are you listening to me!? = [Too late, you're dead.]
Yes = No
No = No
Maybe = No
I'm sorry = You'll be sorry
Do you like this recipe? = It's easy to fix, so you'd better get used to it
Was that the baby?= Why don't you get out of bed and walk him until he goes to sleep
I'm not yelling! = Yes I am yelling because I think this is important
All we're going to buy is a soap dish = It goes without saying that we're stopping at the cosmetics department, the shoe department, I need to look at a few new purses, and those pink sheets would look great in the bedroom and did you bring your checkbook?
Right well Leon I think a CR refill and another round for Pete and the rest of the late night pub crawlers.I hope that the RPO opost is satisfactory for everyone. I'm seeing it again so here's hopping it stays this time.
Pete-great piece on the great train robbery. So you mean to tell me that Sean conery wasn't caught and made off with the motherlode of the money Actaully I loved the movie. Neat that you knew someone who had some indirect attachment to the whole story. that old twelve degrees of separation thing strikes again.
Well folks see everyone tomorrow.
THEME FOR THE DAY THEME FOR THE DAY THEME FOR THE DAY TAKE 2
Okay so take two indeed, still better late than never and it is getting through not unlike our topic for the day.I won't cover reuar railway post office equipment as between Tom,Lars, CM3, Doug, and James'n' Mike it has been well covered. Likewise the Royal Mail has been well handled by DL and BK, hmmm the initailled one's have become an unintentional set of bookends this week. so I shall cover the electric compnent of RPO services.
CLASSIC JUICE # 35 MAIL THE ELECTRIC VERSION
So not unlike the more traditional RPO services some interurbans and city streetcar systems offered RPO services as well.In the case of the larger interurbans it was a natural expansion of their mandates. Since they operated intercity routes many would carry sacked mail and packages in the baggage / combine cars operating inside their trains.some even had express motors built to carry any express mail packages and LCL cargo from the station plateforms. Now unlike the steam roads mail hooks generly were not used as the loading was done by hand at the same time baggage and passengers would load up.
Several of Ontario's radial's were of coarse owned by CN and CP so they would exchange bagged mail with their parent roads express trains in major jointly served city stations.In CN's case tthe Montreal and Southern Counties and the Niagara st Catharines and Toronto would exchange mail with CN trains and in both cases handle Royal mail to steamboats as well.Another former GT property the Toronto Suburban likewise handled mail in two express cars they had built in 1917 by Preston car and coach.When CN shut down the TSR in 1931 it's two express cars were sold off to other operators.IOne went to the London and Port Stanley which renumbered thiers to car # E1 it would often be seen pulling express boxcars and frieght from the lake Erie docks to London and St thomas Ontario where they had connections to the CN. Since the L&PS also handled freight specifically coal and heating oil from Conneaught Ohio some international mail would come from the Pere Marquette via the car ferry.
L&PS E1 leaving Port Stanley harbour in 1946 pulling an express train bound for London Ontario.
Not to be outdone the CPR's Southwestern Ontario radials also handled some mail and small packages from Port Dover and Port Maitland Ontario into Kitchener Waterloo, where mail pouches would be passed onto CPR passenger trains or for a time to The Kitchener waterloo streetcars for local distribution. The Grand River Railway and The Lake Erie and Northern used their baggage combines to distribute mail. Many of the US based interurbans also ran mail between their served cities and towns, I haven't found specifics on the who and the what or which type of equipment they used. Most interurbans would used either express box motors or their baggage cars.
GRR 626 combine car typical of the CPR electrics that would handle mail service. Car 626 is pictured at Kitchener Ontario in 1947
Now city streetcars operating mail service are a bit rarer in Canada in the larger cities it was one additional sorce of revenue as most city systems had no freight operations ( some did ) to help offset costs.In the early 1880's to 90's when wholesale electrification was happeneing many of the larger cities built specific cars to just handle Royal Mail, the TTC and the Ottawa and Hull companies are three that pop into mind.After a while the speacial cars w became expensive to maintain and mail service was cancelled ( no pun intended ) and the cars were either scrapped or put to other uses. In the heyday these mail cars would have been equiped with mail slots in which people could walk upto the car and "mail" their letters. remebering that in the 1890's most city streets were still unpaved and the streetcars were the most efficient way to carry mail, once paving and trucks became available these services quickly ended.
Ottawa's car #1 the royal mail car Seen on the Parliament Hill Run in the early 1900's note how detailed and ornate the car is.
The city of Hull Quebec's lone mail car, used in latter life as a freight motor. This car would handle mail in town and accross the river into Ottawa.
Now some of the smaller cities also sought to get a peice of the mail pie and thus an alternate form of revenue. Most of these companies chose to convert old obsolete cars instead of purchasing expensive purpose built units. Thes however did not carry sorting crews as they needed to maintain some passenger space. Therefore these services carried presorted bagged ,mail for the postal carriers to dsitribute on foot.
The Kitchener & Waterloo Street railway's 10 an older passenegr car that recieved a larger fron door and vestibule to enable it to carry mail. This car would interhcange mail with the GRR in Kitchener and with the CN at the grand trunk station in Waterloo, both stations were on the systems main two rail trunks.
Another conversion this one in Toronto. this car was homebuilt by TTC predessesor road Toronto Railway company it and the TTC's other predessesor the Toronto Suburban were the only electric carriers of mail in Toronto E 1 shown above being ex TSR. In this photo mail service had ended ( happened when the TTC was formed in 1921 )The car served out the rest of it's life as shown here as a farebox car delivering fareboxes tickets and transfers from one division to another. Until replaces by armoured trucks.
Sorry about the quick exit before I had a errand to do and had forgot about it until I got a phone call, anyway let me get a round in LEON.
A slightly different post on the TPOs. On the 8th of August 1963 the Glasgow to London TPO was travelling southwards has it had for 125 years. At 03.15 the train was stopped by a red light near Cheddington Buckinghamshire. this was the start of what became known as the Great Train Robbery. It was a very well thought out and daring plan. The robbers got away with 2.3 Million pounds which is probably worth about 40 million today.
Sadly during the robbery the engine driver Jack Mills was badly beaten about the head by a robber who was not caught.
They stopped the train by getting a signal to show an incorrect red and cutting the telephone wires so the second man(Drivers assistant) could not get in touch with the signal man. The TPO sorters were unaware that anything was wrong until the robbers broke in to the TPO after they had disconnected two cars and driven them to an overbridge where the used notes were taken by waiting trucks to the nearby Letherslade Farm.
After one of the biggest manhunts Britain has known, many of the robbers were caught, often recieving 30 year jail sentences, although it is thought that the mastermind was never caught and much of the money was never recovered.
The locomotive involved in the robbery was an English Electric type 4 D326 later 40126 under the TOPS renumbering, Years later this locomotive was involved in a collision in the north west of England. it was repaired and when it was finally withdrawn from service it was cut up almost immediately.
On a personal note a chap I worked with, previously had worked as a fitter for British Railways at Polmadie Depot in Glasgow and had worked on the loco before its ill fated journey, He had to have his fingerprints taken to check against those found on the loco after the robbery.
Well I hope this has been of some interest after a most excellent Theme Day deffinatly a to all.
TOM great history of the RPOs. Have you been to the Patee museum in St Josepth. We were lucky to get there a couple of years ago and saw the replica mail car. Great pic of Juneau.
CM3 It is sad to think how much traffic the railroads have lost considering how many mail trains left Boston in 1950, I suppose most of it goes by road now.
DL Great post and links. Wonderful description of the last runnings of the TPOs at Derby and as you say the sight if those new transhipment depots standing empty is a scandal. I was going to post the" Night Mail" if you had not. I can see the unrebuilt Royal Scot heading north in the film, great film and poem.
Look forward to more on the Pendelino v APT log.
BK thanks for the BR mail pics. I read that the TPO car involved in the great train robbery is preserved at the Nene Valley Railway perhaps that is the car in your first pic. A 325 Mail electric unit passed through Rugby during my last trip there.
LARS Great pics and covers despite the snow. I wondered where Ruth was earlier.
MIKE Good insight into the amount of mail the NYC carried in wartime and of course the great links.
JAMES Thanks for the Arkansas & Missouri link and the RPO pics..
ROB look forward to your RPO post .
Well I see NICK is in so I will have a look at the post and have another beer while doing so.
Right I'm back again. Leon a Cr and a round if you would be so kind. I'm a tad "dissconfuddled" at the moment. My RPO piece should have shown up right after my other post this afternoon It even showed up for me before I signed off , now it's gone, more new and improved forum gremlins I tell you it's the leading the around here fer sure fer sure. No question but I'll have to post it again once I'm done with this catch up post ( no Boris not the bottled kind 's can't live with them can't...)
Lars-Good to see you sir liked your piece of the pie today as well, and not to worry I'm above the weather again. As to my typing skills or lack thereof lets put it down to 1 part lazy and 1 part I get caught daydreaming and looking at the same "transom" that caught your eye and concentration this afternoon .
Mike-Interesting batch "o" urls thank-you again. I shouldn't worry about what the girls call you they seem to have taken a likeing to you at any rate Funny the one looks like one of Eric's missing models , perhaps another mystery solved.
James-Great extra added bit by you today good stuff I shall wait with baited breath PT 3. Those almost Russian but well loved and used Little Joes will make for a good piece.
Nick-Just caught the Herr Doktor's post You are right improper food too much time in the store accompanied by the ole flu serum ment one trolleyboy flat on his tailend markers ! Nice close up shot of that gawd awfull coupler , why can't you folks be more like us colonials
Tom-reminders for all to use the ole refresh / reload is never a bad thing espeacially with our new and improved software <barf> Somehow I can hear that converstaion you had with that forces doctor about the needle. Still in bioth my field and my wifes it would be suiside not to get them. Thios si the first time I've reacted but I think Nick was right. Lets put that boy through medical school, he could become Our Places chief malpracticer !
Well good evening gentlemen all,Beers all around please Leon and best bring across a bottle of cognac,theres a definate chill in the air tonight..
Right,straight to business as its getting late at this end of the counter
DOUG-enjoyed the continued I.T.C piece,also the surreal crossbreeds
For an unexpected link between I.T.C & todays theme check out http//mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r023.html for an interesting run down on the post office underground railway in London.
ERIC-Quite agree-small saddle tanks do have a `Brit` feel to them in the same way 0-8-0 side tanks always look `Germanic`, Yes,3-links it was -and a b****r to drive they must have been. The longest example I can call to mind were 100-wagon coal trains which used to run to London from Peterborough. A Beyer-Garrett articulated loco was trialed on these services in an attempt to reduce bottlenecking but was self defeating since there wern`t any refuge sidings long enough to accomodate the trains it could pull
DL-may well take you up on Scotland trip info-nice one -sounds like you and MississDL had a result from GNER-still,good PR for the company at virtually no cost to themselves-everybody wins --Excellent theme day submission with interesting links-The description of the last days of the mail at Derby was particularly evocative
The `Night Mail` with the Auden verses is a special favourite.......fine work all round
TOM-As ever,setting the pace with an excellent kick-start to theme day -Appreciate your thoughts on cork roadbed,as the train shed is a touch damp-prone I suspect I may have to explore other avenues-especially as Missisnick has `views` on the subject of more trains in the house
CM3-Nice `case study` of Boston area mail workings-good call !!
BK & LYDIA-It would be my delight to cook for you (or indeed,any of the guys) at any time-It` no great trick ,just takes a bit of imagination and an eye for detail--nice bunch of pix,ancient and modern ( the LNER car in the first pic is built to match Gresleys distinctive coaching stock which was teak-panelled and varnished rather than painted-a glorious sight behind an apple-green Gresley pacific loco < I.E Flying Scotsman > )
ROB-What can I say ?-the girls were recommended to me by a couple of the boys from the Mentor Nomads M.C-not an offer I could safely refuse.........................Glad you are back on your feet-suspect reduced resistance from working too many hours may have played some part here...
LARS-Come and sit over by me mate-she`ll never think of looking for you here-most respectable folks take one look at compost corner and immediately think of reasons to be elsewhere -nice eclectic mix of theme day pix btw-loved that O.T&C shot-- wonderful name
PETE-Thanks for picking up on the catch-points,an aspect I had completely overlooked--pop quiz question,whats the difference between trap & catch points ????
JAMES-Some nice interior & exterior shots there-thanks for thoughts R.E cork-as noted above,given the nature of my layout environment prob. not the way to go. Have seen much mention of Homasote-is this a propriertry brand of cork or something else again ?? any info welcome -enjoy your weekend btw
Right Leon,set`em up again,heres my small contribution to the day:-
Sadly,most of the pix I thought I could use are of such poor quality that I`m not prepared to show them,however I did find one or two bits and bobs...........
Here we have a selection of model catalogues showing T.P.O vans-these will be more fully dealt with tomorrow as part of toy and model day
Yet another 4-in-1-from T.left :-Class 47`s standing outside Swansea loco shed-by this time a dedicated R.E.S service depot---Mixed bag of GUVS,Mk1 full brakes and others on the back roads behind the shed---both pix taken through a train window on a dismal wet winter day---4-whl GUV on M.O.W duty,location unknown-------selection of brake vans,all in departmental service,outside Bridgend,same day as above
Found these two whilst I was looking for other stuff- a 3 link connection (ghastly pun-apologies)-Taken at the Gwili rly,over by Carmarthen we have a W.D `Austerity` (Vets W/End) buffering up to 3 Mk1`s (last week) and the crewman hooking up and then tightening the screw link coupler (yesterday) prior to connecting the vacuum brake hoses
Right,I`ve just realised it`s 03.40 and time for the moonlight mile-take care gents, a fine turnout for theme day -well done all
speak tomorrow
nick
G-day Tom and all present.
Cold, and dark. I don't really like this. But I know what I would like. A cup of java with a splash of vanilla.
Leon, could you get that for me, please.
Well I am glad The Milwaukee road news is going over well, as I got compliments from Pete, Nick, Rob, Tom, and Eric. I am sorry I can't be here this Sunday but I do like that I'm holding you in suspence. Issue 3 will be on the Little Joe, Milwaukee's most used electric.
Pete- Here is the website to the Arkansas and Missouri Railroad. It should be informative. I have a video on the railroad and it's pretty cool. The railroad is only aboyut 150 miles long. Also classified as a shortline railroad.
http://www.arkansasmissouri-rr.com/fhome.html
Nick- Well I am glad that the response on the other thread caught your eye. I hope it caught the eye of the other guy too and maybe he will understand, and maybe not, but lets not get that started over here. Best to leave it. Well, I also see that the cork road bed caught your attention. I recommend the stuff highly. It's flexible and easy to bend and can be cut. It deffinantly makes laying track easier and sets up the beginning of the ballast.
Barndad- I see. No limit to the groan-o-meter. Well, I will becareful. BTW: The underground railroad was very cool! I have never seen or heard of anything like this. The whole thing was very informative, and my favorite thing about this, I have learned something I never knew about. Thanks.
Eric- Well I know a lot of uys on here love RDCs! I love them too. We have a running RDC here in Duluth and it's one of those, WOW, sights. Its deffinantly an eye opener when a self propelled passenger car comes down the tracks. I also saw that you were trying to find one of the Milwaukee orad electrics books. I can recommend one. It's called "The Milwaukee Road" by: Frederick W. Hyde. Half of this book is about the electrified line. Showing color photos of Little Joes and Box cabs. In fact the whole book has color photos. This is one of the better books that I have. You could probably find the book for less than the asking price of $64.95.
Tom- Nice selection of pics. Some of those really bring you back to when they passed mail around. Very cool.
Like I said before the Little Joe issue will be coming next week.
DL- Impressive account on your mail train. I didn't know they were still passing mail around by train in 2003. Our mail trains died long before then. Thanks for the info. I enjoyed it. BTW: I see that you also enjoyed the Milwaukee road box cab piece. I am glad you learned some new things about this railroad.
Rob- I'm glad there are guys willing to answer my questions and anyone elses here. I don't find to many people like you and the other guys who will actually take the time to look up info and then display what was found. Thanks. I know I won't be here for Sunday and the new issue but you will just have to think about next Sunday.
Mike- Uh oh. we've got a problem. This thread is moving to fast....... Well, What to do. I don't know...keep up.
Now for pics!
Photo from: public.fotki.com/.../010_railway_post.html
A Southern RPO, and it's looking good too.
Photo from:www.photo.net/.../digiphotos/20030531-g3-york/
The inside of an RPO car but....I don't know what car this is. Look at all the pigeon holes on this one! It would be a work out just moving your hand.
Photo from: www.oerm.org/pages/sf60.html
Here's another interior shot of an RPO. This is the type of interior that I'm familiar with.
G’Evenin’ Gents!
For some strange reason it has been a long day here at the Saloon by the Siding. However, the bar has taken in a few bucks, so what’s to crab about, eh
To the acknowledgments!
CM3 at 8:51 AM today: Nice idea to feature the RDCs of the B&M and the Boston based RPOs. Seem to recall the RDC4s of the B&M – but now with all of the experience in the Ether, can’t sort it out between reality and what I’ve picked up here. Good stuff!
DL at 9:31 AM today: What’s to say other than – a mighty fine piece of information, replete with URLs and chock full of great background info. Very sad to think of the demise of those TPOs and the attendant work force supporting them. Well worth the wait, Mate!
I think your questions are best addressed within my Wikipedia Post – the answers are there!
BK at 11:07 AM today: A fine spate of Brit TPOs! Lydia “done good!” Like the looks of those mail cars and I too wonder what happened to them.
Surely enjoyed the poem and it is a great “fit” and creative way to sum up your efforts! You appear to have much more than a cursory knowledge of this subject and it shows!
Rob at 12:43 PM today: Way back when I was a young man, I used to get sick each year from the flu shot. Of course those of us in the military had no choice but to submit to them. Once I reached a point in my career where I could get away with telling the Doc’s to buzz off I stopped getting them and NEVER got sick from the flu. It was only in my later years when the “concern” was to ensure that everyone over 60 got the shot that I resumed the annual event. Surprise to me is that I have had no ill effects. The serum has either changed over the decades or my system has. Either way, I’m “covered.” Sorry to learn of your set back – ain’t any fun, fer sure, fer sure.
Chicken soup ‘n brew sounds fine to me!
Fine inclusive Post and we await your RPO submission!
Lars at 12:48 PM today: Good to see ya and methinks YOU brought the snow from wherever you were! Yes, the Mentor Village & Can-Am County Meteorological and Subterranean Critter Control Department has confirmed that this has been a record snowfall for this date in our recorded history. And thanx for cleaning off those running boards for me!
You struck a chord with me regarding your rant. You’re forgiven – after all it is Election Day and expressions of this ‘n that are bound to boil over. Just buy the house a round and all will be right with the world!
Thanx for the Pix spread – a good fit for the “Theme”!
So, WHAT are you “on the lamb” for Hiding out from the Mrs. requires elaboration. C’mon – we’re all ears! Curious minds demand to know!!
Pete at 3:34 PM today: Just dropped in for a free beer – not l
This thread moves too fast and I move too slow.
Thanks for the secretary Nick. Does she call everybody Gramps?
"Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor gloom of night stays these courier from the swift completion of their appointed rounds." - Herodotus
http://www.printspast.com/misc/60584301.jpg
How 3 billion pieces of wartime mail a year speed over the Water Level Route.
Not one of the passengers aboard the 20th Century Limited ever sets foot here.
This car is reserved for wartime travelers of a different kind...tiny V-mail...important business letters...registered envelopes packed with war contracts and blueprints...all part of the three billion pieces of mail that speed each year over New York Central.
Hour after hour, as the Century bores through the night, deft-fingered postal clerks sort this cargo of 'preferential mail.' And tomorrow, on arrival, the pouches and sacks will be ready for immediate forwarding or delivery.
Winter or summer, through storm or fair weather, these 'post offices on wheels' provide lowest cost transportation for 96% of the nation's vast mail tonnage. A vital war service of American railroads today. A service that will be still swifter and more efficient aboard the finer, faster trains of tomorrow.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-rpo1263.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nych-rp2132ajg.jpg
CV
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/_images/common/photos/original/CN005388.jpg
http://216.94.16.48/_images/common/photos/original/CN005347.jpg
L&N
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=200605110720026253.jpg
B&M ?
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2004053004593626747.jpg
Hannibal & St. Joseph
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA04/hopper/Postal/71-14.jpg
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/rrxcolor.Html
Hi Tom and All.
I'll have one of Doug's rounds please RUTH.
A busy time at the bar Tilla and the Cashinator must be very happy and the funds will soon be up to pre darts torney levels.
NICK Great info on the vans and loose couplers looking back it is almost unbelieveable that un brake fitted freights lasted as long as did on British Railways. Another part that was needed with the unfitted freights was the need for Catch Points on the grades, where if there was a break away with a un fitted trains on a grade the catch point would de-rail the runaway. I well remember these on the North and West route through the Welsh Marches in the 70s.
It was quite an art to couple the 3- link coupler on wagons using a Shunting pole.
DOUG Hope it is not too long before you are back with us at the bar from the new digs.
Thanks for the part 2 of theChicago Freight Subway, it was a big operation with 3,000 cars and over 100 locos. I shall look forward to the Encore on the CFS equipment at the IRM.
JAMES Will miss you this weekend with The Milwaukee Road News.
ERIC There was a lot of slack with the 3-Link coupler, but it was a great help in starting a heavy goods, with a relatively small steam loco. It took a great deal of skill to start a loose coupled goods without causing a snatch that could easily break a coupling.
TOM I have to go out for awhile so I will post this and come back to the RPO/TPO theme day when I get back .
<stomp> <stomp> <stomp> My good God it's COLD in here! Turn up the heat and pour me a triple JD - hold the rocks! Didjasee it is SNOWING out there!! Snow here in Mentor Village on November the 7th, now that just has to be a record. C'mon Ruth, snuggle up with ole Lars and get my blood runnin' HOT!
G'day Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!
What a day this has been and more to come. I'm hoping that the posse fails to look in here - I'm on the lamb, and wish to receive asylum! If the Mrs. calls or stops by, I'm NOT here! <grin> Unless of course she's buying!
Looks like a fine Tuesday Theme for the Day is underway with more to come. Cap'n Tom digs out those Wikipedia missives with regularity, and the rest of the crew follows through with great offerings. Had no idea the RPO (or the TPO) had such a history steeped in such tradition. Just another of the benefits of hanging around this place, one just can't get enough of the good stuff! 5- Salute to Tom 'n DL for those two extra-fine submissions!
Can't forget to make mention of CM3 I'm NOT Shane! and his revealing info about the RDCs of New England. Yes, those beauties traveled many a mile to sort and deliver the U.S. mail - neither snow, nor sleet, nor dark of night, nor . . .
Sorry Doug, but I'll get a round to reading that part two - just been focusing on the "theme" for right now! Looks like you're back - at least for awhile and that ain't all so bad!
BK, those are fine looking pix and many thanks for the tip on the web site. Is this the same one you mentioned some months back Sorry, but I either misplaced or really filed that one away!
I'm tellin' ya, mate - gotta watch that silver tongued devil from west Wales - Lydia seems most interested in his "menu's"!! <grin>
Got my voting responsibility over with and was a bit surprised by the low turnout. Of course, I was only viewing a "snippet" of time, but generally we vote at the same time and there are always lines. Not so today. I know we are NOT a political thread, but I just can't resist it: why would anyone want "Nancy" as the 3rd most powerful political figure in our country Beats me! Then of course we have Queen Hillary waiting in the wings to grab #1. Woe is us - woe is us indeed should that happen. No where to run and no where to hide.
Now where was I Ah yes - pardon me while I refresh my triple Jack! Thanx my deAH! I'm getting really WARM now! So, where was I Ah yes - perched right here on my stool, gandering at the finest of stern section this side of the Atlantic. Ahhhhhhh looks like I lost my frame of reference for whatever it was I was going to say! What is that Cap'n Tom - the mind is the SECOND thing to go <grin>
Good to see Nick 'n the boys out last night and the return of Rob this afternoon! Hope that whatever it was that gotchadown has passed. It must have adversely impacted your fingers though - as they surely are getting stuck in between those keys (as noted by someone else on past pages)! <grin> Who said chicken soup 'n beer don't go together
Ok, 'nuf of my nonsense and time to put forth something for our Theme for the Day! This is pretty much a hodge-podge as the book covers were really far 'n few between. So, enjoy!
The OC&T RR operates the only working Railway Post Office in the United States
A commemorative stamp shows a railway mail clerk picking up a mail pouch from a catcher arm. (National Postal Museum, Smithsonian Institution)
Night Scene at an American Railway Junction, by Currier & Ives, ca. 1876, shows the "Flying Mail" train at center. (Library of Congress)
RPO Directory - 1864 - 1977
D&RGW RPO #60 book
Look at that - the snow is just about over the running boards on Cap'n Tom's "new" car! <grin> Well, those solid tires should really cause havoc when he tries getting out of the lot!
That should just about do it . . . time for me to skedaddle!
Good afternoon Ruth and all those here assembled. I shall take a large roastbeef and my morning beer and sequester myself into the far corner booth. Seems that my yearly flushot recieved on friday to ensure good health and long life did the opposite,spent the bulk of the last two days flat on the ole back gotta love modern medical tech
Anyway quite a good showing on sunday and monday, we are indeed likely to hit 8500 before any of the forecasted dates. we must all haev gotten the same pp advice from madame wanda over in the Mentor Curiosity show ( don't call them freaks it's not politically correct , they are normality challenged, not unlike the jo's BK n Lars flushed out )
So in no particular order here's some catch up , no not the bottled knid Boris Anyone no a good stain remover?
Tom-Wonderfull movie pic's from sunday, and I have thoroughly enjoyed todays RPO info It do appear as though you will have a well a well differentiated and busy trip to merry old , you may wish to pack an extra liver if the beer will flo as much as it is seemingly to do.You can count onnseveral things from me of sat sun next week
Eric-The photo's from sunday were wonderfull ( thanks Doug for the url )I loved that old Stockholm car looks alot like some of the standard German / Dutch / and Polish city cars.To answer your question on streetcars systems in Canada The TTC in Toronto is the only full service one. Vancouver has reactivated a small piece of their interurban routes but it's a tourist attraction , same as the high level bridge operations in Edmonton. Now Edmonton Calgary Vancouver have electric lie-rail operations but they are all the train type operations as opposed to imbedded city street running. Ottawa is seriously concidering converting their O train to electric lite rail ( currently it's diesel ) and Kitchener -Waterloo is in the process of starting construction on their new electric lite-rail system.
Lars- great book covers in support of sunday's photo day,it is always good to see the mobile larsmobile of books on a weekly basis.
BK-Great commentary on the Jo's et al can't live with them ,but they do seem to be an unfortunatle side effect of the forum systems in general,guess we shall just ignore and keep what we are doing. In my few dealings with the forum people, I'm not convinced that emails numerous or not will ever 100% solve the problem,but it tis worth a try.My compliments to Lydia's crack research anding just that much more to our RPO topic today, full marks to you both I have noted that there is an effort online at least underway to get our Fed govt to provide state funerals for our three remaining WW1 vets all od whom are over 100 yrs of age. When I find the proper url I'll retype it here.What brought this up was your undying desire that all vetrens that our countries have left should be properly taken care of , and remembered for the services they rendered to our countries.
Doug-An absolutly wonderfull outpouring of info from our font in Ill !I loved the various old CTA chots and off coarse the coal subways good show sir. The dog breeds while funny ruffled my wifes feathers iunfortunatly bing as she has NFLD routes
James-Great part two last sunday, really wonderfull info and a great commentary over on Tom's other thread as well, we sahll mis part three next week.You are most welcome for the BL2 info it is what we are abouit around here ( Tom note the spelling )I'm sure that youi will find some meaningfull info on monday once you have returned.
Pete-Wonderfull shots on Sunday,great story about the vets affairs lady from over home.I'll still be adding a handfull of poppies for all of us hear to the national memorial for all of us here Just the right thing to do.
DL-Some great info on the Royal Mail services today aand on the break van's.They are sometimes refered to as vans here as well ( although caboose and cabeese does tend to be intermixed quite freely )I aggree with your commentary on our "friends"on the other thread,it does seem to be human nature to repeat conversation, espeacially mutually enjoyed or experianced info.
Nick-You old sea dog you.The research assistants look alot like the girls that thew me a couple of curves the other night when I was struck from behind while trying to bail you out. Do I sence a conspiracy.Hmmm perhaps the good inspector did not "probe" deeply enough
One handfull of poppies will definatly be served up though as you are so right no family in Europe and most over here are not untouched by the events of last century.
Mike-The usuual fine fare from you and it seems to have created a momnster between you and James ( No Boris it's agood monster ) Mike finds em and James explains em good show all around BTW watch out for the red headded "assistant"
Back in a bit with some RPO stuff, Heather's home and lunch must be made.( thank God it isn't chicken soup )
Greetings Captain Tom and fellow sophisticates!
Ruth, two from the Menu Board if you please, make them both #3. A cuppa tea for my lady and I shall have my customary steaming hot mug of coffee with just a "splash" to make it interesting. We will sit over by the side windows and take in the readings from today and last evening while we wait.
Wonderful start to the cyber day with Captain Tom initiating the Railway Post Office Theme for the Day! Always enjoy those submisisons and I do hope everyone understands that yours are much more than a simple cut and paste job. Well done with the photos as well - each of those has to be uploaded then downloaded and prepared for this forum. (Thanks to Lydia, I am becoming 'puter literate! <grin>)
The RDC information from CM3 was spot on as well - only thing lacking are photos, but perhaps our UrlMesiterMan Mike will come up with those later on. Thanks to Captain Tom, I have become rather well acquainted with the nuances of the RDCs and understand their varied uses. Budd really came up with something with a value still in demand to this day.
Glad I stuck around for the submission from DL - now that is simply full of all kinds of insights and avenues with reference to the Traveling Post Offices of the UK. Really well done and yours is a treat for the eye. Between what you provided and that from Captain Tom - we have covered the bases well! Always a bit of sadness creeps in when something like what you provided comes through; the end of an era and so forth. So many decades, so many employed, so much infrastructure, so time marches on. So what has happened to all of that rolling stock
Ending your post with prose was a stroke of creative imagination! Well done and a fine selection indeed!
Lydia is impressed with your culinary background, Sir Nick and should we ever find ourselves in your part of the world, the dinner is on us, however, YOU Sir, shall prepare it!
Eric, I concur with what you have to say regarding Kalmbach. Since my "encounter" with them a few weeks back, mine is to maintain a distance. Not at all interested in the way they handle things, however, I am very mindful that this is a service - a free one at that. So, I am willing to go with the flow until our Proprietor feels it is time to move elsewhere.
Doug, of course being the professed rail novice of the group, why would I know anything about the subjects being posted here? However, I do find them of extreme interest and have enjoyed reading about that Chicago subway freight system. Very informative.
Yes, it does appear as if the November Contest may indeed have no winners. Then again, we all win. For I view it as an outstanding achievement to have remained such a viable thread for all of these months, in spite of the carping and the like coming from the baseboards of the Ether. <grin>
I note that your area has an airport - Spirit of St. Louis in Chesterfield Valley. Is that close to where you reside, Sir Tom Just doing a bit of thinking regarding the Second Annual Rendezvous in May.
My apologies if I have left anyone out this morning! Now, let me offer up these photos from a website that Lydia came across. All of their photos are FREE to use, providing proper credit is given. I suggest those of you who are having some difficulty finding unrestricted photo use, check this out: www.freefoto.com - it is indeed a gold mine!
Travelling Post Office LNER TPO 70294 - Nene Valley Railway - Photo: Ian Britton (c) FreeFoto.com
Class 325 Royal Mail Train - Photo: Ian Britton (c) FreeFoto.com
Shunting a Mail Train in Tyne Yard - Photo: Ian Britton (c) FreeFoto.com
Class 325 1M78 14:40 Low Fell - London Mail Train - Photo: Ian Britton [c] FreeFoto.com
Class 325 Royal Mail Train stands in Darlington Station- Photo: Ian Britton [c] FreeFoto.com
Class 325 Royal Mail Train stands in Darlington Station - Photo: Ian Britton (c) FreeFoto.com
Enjoy the day, Gentlemen!
BK in Alberta, Canada's beautiful high mountain country!
Good afternoon Tom and all in – I’ll have a pint of mild and perhaps wait for the Juke box to quieten down. Sorry not to get this in earlier Tom, did intedn to kick off but there we are. You can't beat the guy witht he keys to the tavern!
So, here we are – Railway Post Office Day – here in UK they are called Travelling Post Offices (TPO) so for this run down I’ll refer to them as TPOs. I’m hoping we will get some good information from other parts of the globe so hope this starts other contributions.
First of all though, by looking at the Recent Classic Trains edition on the subject I’ve tried to work out differences between UK TPO practice and North American. Looks like very little – in fact only differences I can see are very minor:
- Cars were not marshalled into passenger trains (although may have been once upon a time), being run as post office service only
- Lineside catch and pickup equipment involved nets that caught the bags off ‘Traducer Arms’ that dangled the bags outside the car – in US it looks like the staff simply threw the bags off at the vital moment – was that the case?
Other aspects, special postage franking, mailbox on the side of the car for last minute posting etc are all familiar British practice too.
So here goes:
I’ll start off with recent events since some readers may not know that the onboard sorting of mail in a TPO only ended here in the UK in 2004 – very recent history. Having had a long standing fascination with these services since childhood I made sure I was there on the last night to see these services come to an end! This is my version of that final chapter.
Back in the 1990s the British Royal Mail decided to make heavy investment in the rail based mail distribution network. They bought a fleet of electric powered multiple unit mail stowage trains (not TPOs as no sorting on board), and built substantial rail connected depots near London, Bristol, Newcastle and other locations (no longer would it be possible to go to London railway terminal stations late in the evening and see the mail trains, inc the TPOs being loaded from vans prior to departure – this would all now happen in the privacy of these vast mail transhipment depots). This was a multi million pound investment and although the number of night sorting mail trains had been reduced over the years – the future seemed pretty assured. Some good pictures of one of these vast ‘private stations’ is here.
http://www.tpo.org.uk/articles/NETPO1.htm
Forward to about 2003. Royal Mail are in some financial difficulty and government wants them to return to profit. The contract with the rail company EWS (owned by Wisconsin Central) is up for negotiation and Royal Mail claim they can’t get a reasonable price offer from EWS. Royal Mail announce they are going to withdraw from all transport of mail by train after Christmas 2003 (and switch to road plus some air). This comes as shock to most people – and runs directly contradictory to govt policy to get freight off roads (Royal Mail is Government owned). Freight hauler EWS must be pretty annoyed since they bought a fleet of 125mph diesel locomotives from Spain (Class 67) primarily to haul these fast mail trains. (as a postscript – that is one of the reasons these locomotives are now hauling sleeper trains and other freight since there are no TPOs to haul). Whatever happens they announce the practice of sorting mail on board trains will cease on the night of 9th/10th January 2004. All that 1990s investment is more of less thrown away. We have truly come to the end of an era. (NB in 2005 Royal Mail began moving a much smaller amount of pre-sorted mail by train again on a few UK routes).
From late summer / autumn 2003 it is well known the TPO trains will cease running. My second cousin works for EWS, so I ask him what time the remaining runs through the East Midlands operate so I can go and observe the nightly ritual. He advises me that the South West – North East Bristol / Newcastle TPO runs through Derby – northbound about 00.30, southbound about 01.15. This location is only about 15 miles from me and we have family there. Times are not too late to pay a visit to the station.
In the run up to Christmas 2003 we are on a family visit – this seems the ideal opportunity to head out just after midnight (a few raised eyebrows from the rest of the family as they prepare for shut eye!). I get to the station in plenty of time – armed with a 1st class self addressed envelope to post on one of the trains. It’s a cold night and no one else is around, but no one seems to be bothered. Eventually a locomotive hauled van train arrives from the south in the mail train colours. A few Royal Mail staff appear from a storage area to one side and van doors are flung open, there is some fairly frantic loading and unloading of mail bags – I wander up the platform – there is no TPO in this train. I’m worried the TPO service has already been withdrawn on this route. The train pulls out and I ask a member of staff “what about the TPO? Do they no do that anymore?”. Turns out I’m a little early – this is an extra van train to deal with the Christmas volume of post – TPO should be along in about 10 minutes.
I bide my time and then it appears – this time much more activity – several sorting cars in the train and doors are opened up for the guys on board to load, unload and get a little fresh night air. Lots of platform activity as staff rush to complete their tasks in the 10-15 minute allocated slot. I get a good view inside the cars and the staff seem friendly enough. Happy to great an interested observer perhaps. Eventually there is a slamming of doors and the loco powers up – into the black night and off towards the north east. Time for me to go home to bed.
I make my mind up to revisit this scene several times before the scheduled last night of 9th January 2004. But first I’ve got to learn how to do something I’ve never done before – take decent night time photographs with my 35mm camera and no flash gun. And I haven’t got long to learn! Fortunately I find a website where a chap who specialises in night rail photography gives the tricks of the trade – exposure times, film speed, tripod use etc etc. I equip myself and go back, experimenting with different exposure times and shooting off quite a bit of film on these cold January nights. To get some idea if I’m doing it correctly I take the film for 1 hour processing so I can go back the next night and improve my technique. I’m pleased with initial results and can see how to make adjustments.
All in all I made several trips and took quite few pictures, on one night the chaps on the TPO invited me to step inside briefly and take a picture on board. I don’t want to get anyone in trouble, but they are generously spirited (very much so since most will be redundant in a few days time). I take a few snaps whilst they continue their sorting work. I’m pleased that I can get the pictures developed and order spare prints to take back the next night to give to the crew. Turns out it is a different crew but they know each other and promise to pass on the snaps. I’m pleased about this since it is nice to be able to ‘pay back’ the favour. I always remember to bring a selection of stamped post to post through the TPO letter box. It usually arrives on my doormat the next day – stamped with the special TPO mail stamp.
As the date gets closer to 9th Jan I’m not the only person arriving to watch the services both north and southbound. A few other photographers are there. By the last night (9 Jan 2004) word must have got round and the story is in the press too. On this night there are at least 50 – 60 people on Derby Station to see the last services go. The crew say it is the same at all the stopping points – folk with a sense of history who regret the passing of this fine tradition. At York a bagpiper sees off the train, and one service carries a bugler who sounds his bugle at each stop. The crew remain in good spirits and as the train pulls out they wave to us from the open door ways – some make other gestures of good will – throwing bundles of special TPO mailbag labels and other bits and pieces from the open doors to their ‘fans’ – I collect a complete set of mailbag labels as a reminder.
After the 00.30 departure for the north most onlookers head for home – not realising the last services to pass through will be the southbound one about 1 hour later. The hardcore stay on. The time allows me to change my film, clean the lens, have a hot coffee from my thermos. Then I photograph the last service and that is it – the end of an era.
I don’t have digital versions of my own pictures but some great pictures of that Night at Derby station are on line - see
http://www.beano.de/tpo/ check the catalogue on the left hand side for various images, including some great interior shots. I can’t see myself in these pics but I was in that crowd somewhere.
I won’t go in great detail into the History of the British TPO system (which may of course have been one of the first such systems in the world?) because it is very well documented here on this excellent site:
http://www.tpo.org.uk/
See history of the TPO system pages. This site is run by some chaps who are restoring an LMS TPO, have a SR and GNR TPO and have recently bought a number of the newly redundant cars (which all date from the 1950s and 1960s). They run them on a preserved railway where they also have line side pick up apparatus (the lines side pickup / drop off at speed was discontinued in UK in 1971 I think).
This site also has some good stuff about the UK TPO system
http://www.allanyeo.co.uk/html/history_presentation_.html
One other thing I’d like to mention is the classic documentary film Night Mail – most UK enthusiasts will have seen this film made in the 1930s by the Post Office to show the work of a London to Scotland mail train. The film is known as one of the all time classics of documentary film making
Some info is here:
http://www.britmovie.co.uk/genres/documentary/filmography/003.html
“Night Mail - The epitome of the particularly British amalgam of railways, poetry and social document, this extraordinary short was produced by the GPO to show the overnight journey of a post train from London to Glasgow. With a score by Benjamin Britten and rhythmic verse delivered by WH Auden, Watt and Wright's potentially prosaic project is transformed into one of the all-time classics of film, documentary or otherwise.”
1936 Black & White 24 minutesProduced by John Grierson. Directed by Harry Watt and Basil Wright. Music by Benjamin Britten. Verse by WH Auden.
"The most celebrated documentary made by the General Post Office Film Unit. Night Mail shows the Postal Special's run from London to Scotland. It has all the qualities of classic British documentary: realism, perfect structure and an inspirational appeal."
This gives me the rare opportunity to end the day’s contribution with some poetry!!
The film night mail ends with a poem, which I expect many of you know – I make no apologies for repeating it here.
If you’ve seen the film you’ll know it, but the poem is cleverly written to match the pace of the train as it is filmed during these stages of its run (do Poets call it ‘meter’?) eg you can’t really read verse 2 faster than the train, whereas verse 4 has a very fast pace. If you’ve not seen it, have a read through (out loud maybe!) and see if that comes across. I’ll give some guidance:
Verse 1 and 2 show the train heading into the climb and slowing for the ascent of the grade (Beattock Bank was/is a famous incline en route to Glasgow).
Verse 3 is at the summit, pausing for the speed of the descent.
Verse 4 shows the fast moving service going as fast as possible for the destination.
Verse 5 is real slow as the train pulls up the buffers at Glasgow Central terminus – and the film concludes.
This is the Night Mail crossing the border,Bringing the cheque and the postal order,Letters for the rich, letters for the poor,The shop at the corner and the girl next door.Pulling up Beattock, a steady climb:The gradient's against her, but she's on time.Past cotton-grass and moorland boulderShovelling white steam over her shoulder,Snorting noisily as she passesSilent miles of wind-bent grasses.
Birds turn their heads as she approaches,Stare from the bushes at her blank-faced coaches.Sheep-dogs cannot turn her course;They slumber on with paws across.In the farm she passes no one wakes,But a jug in the bedroom gently shakes.
Dawn freshens, the climb is done.Down towards Glasgow she descendsTowards the steam tugs yelping down the glade of cranes,Towards the fields of apparatus, the furnacesSet on the dark plain like gigantic chessmen.All Scotland waits for her:In the dark glens, beside the pale-green sea lochsMen long for news.
Letters of thanks, letters from banks,Letters of joy from the girl and the boy,Receipted bills and invitationsTo inspect new stock or visit relations,And applications for situationsAnd timid lovers' declarationsAnd gossip, gossip from all the nations,News circumstantial, news financial,Letters with holiday snaps to enlarge in,Letters with faces scrawled in the margin,Letters from uncles, cousins, and aunts,Letters to Scotland from the South of France,Letters of condolence to Highlands and LowlandsNotes from overseas to HebridesWritten on paper of every hue,The pink, the violet, the white and the blue,The chatty, the catty, the boring, adoring,The cold and official and the heart's outpouring,Clever, stupid, short and long,The typed and the printed and the spelt all wrong.
Thousands are still asleepDreaming of terrifying monsters,Or of friendly tea beside the band at Cranston's or Crawford's:Asleep in working Glasgow, asleep in well-set Edinburgh,Asleep in granite Aberdeen,They continue their dreams,And shall wake soon and long for letters,And none will hear the postman's knockWithout a quickening of the heart,For who can bear to feel himself forgotten?
Author : W H Auden
So we end on an artistic note – for anyone who does not realise that steam, steel, coal and diesel is as much art as the smell of paint and the sound of music – let ‘em think again!
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