"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Thanks Tom for the Santa Fe Parts I and II. Time for another coffee and then its back to the office. Only being three short blocks away I can slip in and out several times a day and not be missed.

ATCHISON
TOPEKA
&
SANTA FE
(AT&SF) Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
By Al

The first lightweight streamlined Dining car operated by the Santa Fe was car 1454 COCHITO built for the first lightweight streamlined SUPER CHIEF. The eight car lightweight streamlined SUPER CHIEF began service May 18, 1937 between Chicago and Los Angeles ten times per month. The Budd Company of Philadelphia using stainless steel throughout built all eight cars of this first SUPER CHIEF. The most striking feature of the new trains was the war bonnet paint scheme found on the lead passenger unit. This paint scheme would identify a Santa Fe passenger train throughout the railroad streamline era.
Besides the Dining car 1474 COCHITA the new SUPER CHIEF featured a 12-crew dormitory Barbershop buffet 24-seat lounge car numbered and named 1370 ACOMA.
Another car in the 1937 SUPER CHIEF offering lounge space was the NAVAJO. The NAVAJO featured 1-double bedroom 2-drawing rooms 3-compartments and 13-seat lounge located in the round observation end. There was no liquor service available in this lounge but it was one of the most popular areas for viewing the passing scenery. The entire Budd built SUPER CHIEF eight cars consist was delivered to the Santa Fe in April 1937.

12 CREW DORMITORY BARBERSHOP BUFFET 24-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Budd Company April 1937(Built for and assigned to first lightweight streamlined SUPER CHIEF)

1370 ACOMA

36-SEAT DINING CAR Budd Company April 1937 (Built for and assigned to first lightweight streamlined SUPER CHIEF)

1474 COCHITA

1-DOUBLE BEDROOM 2-DRAWING ROOM 3-COMPARTMENT 13-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company April 1937 Plan: 9518 (Built for and assigned to first lightweight streamlined SUPER CHIEF)

NAVAJO

From this first lightweight streamlined SUPER CHIEF the Santa Fe would go on to purchase one of the largest fleets of lightweight cars owned by any western railroad.
The Santa Fe next turned their attention to streamlining the CHIEF trains. These all-Pullman trains operated in daily service between Chicago and Los Angeles on a slower schedule than the SUPER CHIEF but were very similar in equipment. The one major difference was the CHIEF would not be diesel powered until after WW II. The CHIEF was assigned new 4-6-4 Hudson’s east of Lamar, Colorado and 4-8-4 Northern’s west of Lamar. Instead of Budd constructing the entire CHIEFS they built the feature cars only. Pullman Standard built all of the sleeping cars.
From Budd came six SAN prefix series cars numbered 1380-1385. These cars featured a baggage compartment barbershop buffet and 30-seat lounge. These were the first cars in each ten car CHIEF train set.
The fifth car in each CHIEF consist also built by Budd featured a 12-crew dormitory buffet 39-seat lounge car. These cars carried numbers 1371-1376 as well as Indian names.
The sixth car in CHIEF consist was a 36-seat dining car from Budd. Ten cars numbered 1475-1484 were delivered for assignment to the CHIEFS this permitted spares and could also fill in for the earlier SUPER CHIEF dining car.
The tenth car in each CHIEF consist was a Pullman Standard built 1-double bedroom 4-drawing room 17-seat lounge observation. These cars were all assigned Indian names only. There was no bar facilities in these cars.

BAGGAGE BARBERSHOP BUFFET 30-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company October – November 1937 (Built for and assigned to CHIEF pool)

1380 SAN MIGUEL

1381 SAN MARCIAL

1382 SAN FERNANDO

1383 SAN SIMON

1384 SAN IGNACIO

1385 SAN PASCAL

12-CREW DORMITORY BUFFET 39-SEAT CLUB LOUNGE CARS Budd Company September – October 1937 (Built for and assigned to CHIEF pool)

1371 NAMBE

1372 PICURIS

1373 TESUQUE

1374 SANTA CLARA

1375 MOENCOPI

1376 ZUNI

36-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company May – June 1937 (Built for and assigned to CHIEF pool)

1475 – 1484

1-DOUBLE BEDROOM 4-DRAWING ROOM 17-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard January – February 1938 Plan: 4070 Lot: 6532 (Built for and assigned to CHIEF pool)

BETAHTAKIN

BILBITO

CHAISTLA

CHUSKA

COCONINO

DENEHOTSO

The Santa Fe next turned their attention to two five-car coach streamliners named the EL CAPITANS for fast 39-3/4 hour service between Chicago and Los Angeles. At the same time a second lightweight streamlined SUPER CHIEF was introduced in February 1938. Unfortunately the second SUPER CHIEF entered service using borrowed sleeping cars from the CHIEF pool, as Pullman Standard had not delivered the sleeping cars on time for this train. Budd for their part completed the feature cars for the second SUPER CHIEF in time for the train inaugural.
Each of the new EL CAPITAN trains were comprised of one baggage 12-crew dormitory newsstand 32-seat coach, a 52-seat coach, a 14-seat lunch counter 24-seat dining car, another 52-seat coach and a 50-seat coach observation. The 14-seat lunch counter 24-seat dining cars served double duty acting as lounge cars during non-meal hours. Budd delivered the two 14-seat lunch counter 24-seat dining cars in January 1938 to the Santa Fe numbered 1505 and 1506.
The three feature cars delivered by Budd for the second SUPER CHIEF in January 1938 were baggage 7-crew dormitory bar 28-seat lounge car 1387 SAN ACACIA, 12-crew dormitory barbershop buffet 24-seat lounge car 1377 AGATHLA and 36-seat dining car 1485 AWATOBI. The latter car 1485 AWATOBI was the last named lightweight streamlined dining car on the Santa Fe.
In July 1938 Pullman Standard delivered the 1-double bedroom 4-drawing room 17-seat lounge observation PUYE to the Santa Fe to replace the CHIEF pool car CHAISTLA on the rear of the second streamlined SUPER CHIEF.

14-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 24-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company January 1938) Built for and assigned to EL CAPITAN pool)

1505-1506

BAGGAGE 7-CREW DORMITORY BAR 28-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Budd Company January 1938 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF pool)

1387 SAN ACACIA

12-CREW DORMITORY BARBERSHOP BUFFET 24-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Budd Company January 1938 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF pool)

1377 AGATHLA

36-SEAT DINING CAR Budd Company January 1938 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF pool)

1485 AWATOBI

1-DOUBLE BEDROOM 4-DRAWING ROOM 17-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard July 1938 Plan: 4070A Lot: 6553 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF pool)

PUYE

The Santa Fe next turned their attention to their most popular short route the Surf line between Los Angeles and San Diego. The new five-car SAN DIEGAN operated a twice-daily round trip beginning in San Diego each morning. The one feature car of this train was its 8-seat lunch counter 16-seat dining bar 20-seat Tavern Lounge car 1500 delivered by Budd in March 1938. Car 1500 was rebuilt in November 1940 to a 14-seat lunch counter 24-seat dining car with the car serving as a tavern lounge during non-meal hours. This brought the two cars of GOLDEN GATE and the one SAN DIEGAN car into a pool o identical 14-seat lunch counter 24-seat dining cars. The new five-car streamliner was inaugurated March 23, 1938.

8-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 16-SEAT DINING BAR 20-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE CAR Budd Company March 1938 (Built for and assigned to SAN DIEGAN)

1500

On April 17, 1938 the Santa Fe inaugurated a pair of streamliners between Chicago and Wichita, Kansas. The new trains were named CHICAGOAN eastbound and KANSAS CITYAN westbound. These trains were the longest day runs on the Santa Fe and would soon have their western terminal extended to Oklahoma City. Each of these seven-car streamliners offered two feature cars. One of these was a 26-revenue seat coach bar 30-seat lounge car the other a 48-seat dining car. The two consists were trainlined in the following order.

CONSIST ONE

8 EMC E1A 1,800 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

3401 Baggage 30’Railway Post Office Car

3107 52-Revenue Seat Coach

3108 52-Revenue Seat Coach

3109 52-Revenue Seat Coach

1399 26-Revenue Seat Coach Bar 30-Seat Lounge Car

1487 48-Seat Dining Car

3241 30-Revenue Seat Parlor Observation
CONSIST TWO

9 EMC E1A 1,800 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

3402 Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car

3110 52-Revenue Seat Coach

3111 52-Revenue Seat Coach

3112 52-Revenue Seat Coach

1398 26-revenue Seat Coach Bar 30-Seat Lounge Car

1486 48-Seat Dining Car

3242 30-Revenue seat Parlor Observation

26-REVENUE SEAT COACH BAR 30-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company March 1938 (Built for and assigned to CHICAGOAN-KANSAS CITYAN)

1398, 1399

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company March 1938 (Built for and assigned to CHICAGOAN – KANSAS CITYAN)

1486, 1487

Two additional streamlined trains were introduced by the Santa Fe in July 1938 the GOLDEN GATES between Oakland and Bakersfield with connecting bus service operated by the Santa Fe to Southern California.
Each new seven-car streamliner was trainlined as follows:

CONSIST ONE
8 EMC E1A 1,800 hp Passenger Diesel Cab Unit

3490 Baggage 36-revenue seat Coach

3116 52-revenue seat Coach

3095 60-revenue seat Coach

1501 8-seat Lunch Counter 16-seat
Dining 20-seat Tavern Lounge
Car

3117 26-revenue seat Coach Bar 30-
Seat Club Lounge car

3090 60-revenue seat Coach

3243 60-revenue seat Coach
Observation

CONSIST TWO

9 EMC E1A 1,800 hp Passenger Diesel
Unit

3491 Baggage 36-revenue seat Coach

3115 52-revenue seat Coach

3093 60-revenue seat Coach

1502 8-seat Lunch Counter 16-seat
Dining 20-seat Tavern Lounge
Car

3118 26-revenue seat Coach Bar 30-
Seat Club Lounge Car

3091 60-revenue seat Coach

3244 60-revenue seat Coach
Observation

Both of the 8-seat Lunch Counter 16-seat dining 20-seat tavern lounge cars 1501 and 1502 were rebuilt in November 1938 to 14-seat Lunch Counter 24-seat Dining cars with no change of numbers.

8-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 16-SEAT DINING 20-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE CARS Budd Company July 1938 (Built for and assigned to GOLDEN GATES)

1501, 1502

The other feature cars the 26-revenue seat coach bar 30-seat Club Lounge cars 3117 and 3118 were also Budd built cars delivered in July 1938.

26-REVENUE SEAT COACH BAR 30-SEAT CLUB LOUNGE CARS Budd Company July 1938 (Built for and assigned to GOLDEN GATES)

3117, 3118

Additional cars were delivered before WW-II that made Santa Fe travel even more pleasurable.
In January 1940 the Santa Fe received a pair of Club –Lounge cars for assignment to the EL CAPITANS from Budd. These cars provided lounge space for 24 with a bar and 36-seat club lounge. The two cars were numbered 1396 and 1397.

24-SEAT LOUNGE BAR 36-SEAT CLUB LOUNGE CARS Budd Company January 1940 (Built for and assigned to EL CAPITAN trains)

1396, 1397

In February 1940 a single 36-seat dining car 1488 was delivered to the Santa Fe by Pullman Standard and assigned to the SUPER CHIEF-CHIEF pool. This was the first Pullman Standard built lightweight streamlined dining car built for the Santa Fe, all previous lightweight streamlined dining cars built for the Santa Fe had come from Budd.

36-SEAT DINING CAR Pullman Standard February 1940 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF – CHIEF pool)

1488

Another car delivered in February 1940 was a single 14-seat Lunch Counter 24-seat dining car number 1507 for assignment to the TULSAN between Tulsa and Kansas City round trip daily. This car like the previous Lunch – Counter Dining cars for the Santa Fe was built by Budd.

14-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 24-SEAT DINING CAR Budd Company February 1940 (Built for and assigned to TULSAN)

1507

In March 1940 Budd delivered a single 12-crew dormitory barbershop bar 24-seat club lounge car 1378 CONCHO as a spare for the SUPER CHIEF although the car also operated in the CHIEF.

12-CREW DORMITORY BARBERSHOP BAR 24-SEAT CLUB LOUNGE CAR Budd Company March 1940 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF)

1378 CONCHO

In April –May 1941 Budd delivered a pair of Club- Lounge cars 1388 and 1389 identical to 1396 and 1397 delivered in January 1940, these cars were assigned to the EL CAPITAN pool of cars although they operated in numerous other trains during their Santa Fe careers.

24-SEAT LOUNGE BAR 36-SEAT CLUB-LOUNGE CARS Budd Company April – May 1941 (Built for and assigned to EL CAPITAN pool)

1388, 1389

Also in May 1941 the Budd Company delivered an additional 14-seat lunch counter 24-seat dining car to the Santa Fe for the EL CAPITAN pool.

14-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 24-SEAT DINING CAR Budd Company May 1941 (Built for and assigned to EL CAPITAN pool)

1504

In December 1941 another 14-seat lunch counter 24-seat dining car was delivered to the Santa Fe numbered 1503. With the delivery of this car the Santa Fe set up an EL CAPITAN-SAN DIEGAN pool of these cars. During WW-II the Santa Fe operated two of these lunch counter dining cars in each EL CAPITAN train set between Chicago and Los Angeles. They gave up one of their Lunch counter dining cars to the SAN DIEGAN for a daily Los Angeles – San Diego round trip before departure in the EL CAPITAN eastbound later that same day.

14-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 24-SEAT DINING CAR Budd Company December 1941 (Built for and assigned to EL CAPITAN – SAN DIEGAN pool)

1503

The final feature cars delivered to the Santa Fe came in the first six months of WW-II. It is doubtful if these cars would have been constructed if work on these ten 36-seat dining cars were not already underway at the outbreak of WW-II. Between January and July 1942 the Santa Fe received ten 36-seat dining cars 1489-1498 from Budd for the SUPER CHIEF – CHIEF pool replacing the older cars in these trains. The cars are known to have operated in other trains such as the RANGER during WW-II as well.

36-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company January – July 1942 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF – CHIEF pool)

1489-1498

Following WW-II the Santa Fe listed their priorities for new passenger equipment as enough new cars for daily operation of the SUPER CHIEF and EL CAPITAN trains. This would mean enough additional cars for six sets of equipment for each train. All new cars would be the order of the day for the SUPER CHIEF except for 36-seat dining cars that were prewar cars and some of the other feature cars such as Dormitory Buffet Lounge cars and 1-double bedroom 4-drawing room lounge observations. In the case of the postwar daily EL CAPITAN trains new Lunch counter-dining cars would supplement the prewar cars as well as new Club-Lounge cars to supplement those built prior to WW-II.
Even though it would be February 29, 1948 before the SUPER CHIEF and EL CAPITAN became daily streamliners the first of the new postwar feature cars to arrive were six 12-crew Dormitory – Club Lounge cars 1390-1395. Budd delivered these cars in March – April 1946 to the Santa Fe for daily SUPER CHIEF assignment. The Santa Fe assigned the cars to the tri-weekly SUPER CHIEF then operating with the cars being assigned to Chicago at that time. These cars were identical to those built for the prewar SUPER CHIEF except for the barbershop missing from these postwar cars. In place of the barbershop was the Stewards room providing private space for the dining car boss.

STEWARDS ROOM 12-CREW DORMITORY BAR 24-SEAT CLUB LOUNGE CARS Budd Company March – April 1946 (Built for and assigned to postwar daily SUPER CHIEF)

1390-1395

Also on Mach 1946 Topeka shops rebuilt Baggage-Dormitory-Lounge car 1384 SAN IGNACIO into a Baggage 21-crew dormitory car with no change of number or name. The car was then assigned to one of the SUPER CHIEF consists.
Pullman Standard delivered three postwar Club Lounge cars 1347-1349 to the Santa Fe in September 1947 for assignment to the EL CAPITAN when that train went daily in 1948. These three cars joined four pre-war cars from Budd giving the EL CAPITAN one spare when it became a daily train.

24-SEAT LOUNGE BAR 36-SEAT CLUB LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard September 1947 (Built for and assigned to postwar daily EL CAPITAN pool)

1347-1349

Between January and March 1948 Budd delivered sixteen 14-seat Lunch Counter 24-seat dining cars 1550-1565 to the Santa Fe for assignment two per consist to each daily EL CAPITAN. The fully replenished spare cars were rotated in and out of the trains at Chicago and Los Angeles.

14-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 24-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company January – March 1948 (Built for and assigned to the daily EL CAPITAN pool)

1550 – 1565

In June 1948 the Topeka shops rebuilt Baggage-Dormitory Lounge car 1387 SAN ACACIA into a Baggage 21-crew dormitory car ad assigned this car to the SUPER CHIEF-CHIEF pool. There was no change of number or name with this conversion.
In 1950 the Santa Fe again received new cars for there two premiere trains SUPER CHIEF and EL CAPITAN. Among feature cars delivered for the EL CAPITAN were twelve new 14-seat Lunch Counter 24-seat Dining cars replacing the 1948 Budd built cars of this type, although the new Pullman Standard built cars were actually placed in a pool with the earlier cars. The pool not only equipped the EL CAPITAN but also was assigned to the TEXAS CHIEFS, and even the GRAND CANYONS began operating with these cars. In the GRAND CANYONS the cars served as both dining and lounge cars.

14-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 24-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard June – August 1950 (Built for and assigned to EL CAPITAN-TEXAS CHIEF-GRAND CANYON pool)

1566-1577

Six 13 -Crew Dormitory 24 seat lounge cars 1339-1344 were delivered o the Santa Fe by Pullman Standard in October 1950 for assignment to the SUPER CHIEFS. These cars were placed forward behind the baggage car in the SUPER CHIEFS consist with the dormitory space serving the trailing 36-seat dining car crew. Older cars operating in the SUPER CHIEF were then assigned to the CHIEF.

13-CREW DORMITORY 24-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard October 1950 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEFS)

1339-1344

A similar car to the above number 1345 was delivered in November 1950 except the Dormitory lacked a Stewards room thus the dormitory capacity was for twelve crew. This car had a buffet and lounge seating for 24. The 1345 was assigned to the TULSAN pool of cars operating between Kansas City and Tulsa with the crew over-night in Tulsa before returning to Kansas City the next day.

12-CREW DORMITORY BUFFET 24-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Pullman Standard November 1950 (Built for and assigned to TULSAN)

1345

Pullman Standard delivered car 1346 in November 1950 a 24-seat lounge Bar 36-seat club lounge car to the Santa Fe. This car was assigned to the EL CAPITAN pool of cars and in later years probably operated in most Santa Fe long distance trains.

24-SEAT LOUNGE BAR 36-SEAT CLUB LUNGE CAR Pullman Standard November 1950 (Built for and assigned to EL CAPITAN pool)

1346

American Car & Foundry delivered a single VISTA series sleeper-lounge-observation to the Santa Fe in November 1950 for assignment to the SUPER CHIEF pool giving that trains pool six cars with VISTA series names. This was the only observation car built by AC&F for the Santa Fe. The new car was named VISTA CLUB and was immediately assigned to one of the SUPER CHIEF train sets.

1-DOUBLE BEDROOM 4- DRAWING ROOM 17-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION American Car & Foundry November 1950 Plan: 9013 Lot: 3360 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF pool)

VISTA CLUB

In November – December 1950 the Santa Fe received seven 36-seat dining cars 600-606 for assignment to the SUPER CHIEF pool. These cars built by Pullman Standard were the last word in interior décor befitting a train of the SUPER CHIEFS stature.

36-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard November – December 1950 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF pool)

600 – 606

The piece-de-resistance was the new car just ahead of the new diners the Pleasure domes with their famous Turquoise Room, a private dining room that soon became the private domain for Hollywood’s motion picture industry. The Turquoise room was located in the short end of the car ahead of the dome, and was trainlined directly ahead of the trailing dining car. In this way up to twelve passengers at a time could be served from the dining car. The six cars delivered in December 1950 by Pullman Standard to the Santa Fe were short domes and the seating in the dome level was less than other short domes that normally held 24. The sixteen seats were arranged eight on either side of the center aisle with a pair of seats facing forward followed by four single swivel parlor seats and another pair of seats followed facing the rear. This seating arrangement was repeated on the other side of the center aisle in the dome for the total of sixteen seats. Beneath the dome in the cars depressed section was located a bar and cocktail lounge with seating for eight. Behind the stairway leading to the dome was a desk and char supplied with SUPER CHIEF stationary. The large main level area to the rear of the dome featured a lounge seating 21. The Santa Fe originally planned to name these cars PLAZA ACOMA, PLAZA LAGUNA, PLAZA LAMY, PLAZA SANTA FE, PLAZA TAOS, and PLAZA ZUNI but instead they were delivered with numbers 500-505.

16-SEAT PLEASURE DOME 12-SEAT TURQUOISE ROOM BAR 8-SEAT COCKTAIL LOUNGE 21-SEAT LOUGE CARS Pullman Standard December 1950 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF)

500 – 505

In March 1952 the Santa Fe Topeka shops remodeled the 24-seat Lounge Bar 36-seat Club Lounge car 1396 into a 24-seat Lounge Buffet 24-seat dining car and kept the same number. This work was completed and the car was assigned to one of the KANSAS CITY CHIEF consists replacing a heavyweight Centennial lounge car.
In August 1952 Topeka shops shopped the 24-seat Lounge Bar 36-seat Club Lounge car 1397 and converted it to a 24-seat Lounge Buffet 24-seat dining car and assigned the car to the other overnight KANSAS CITY CHIEF consist.
In August 1953 Topeka shops were busy converting 52-seat coach 3153 into the roads only Lunch-O-Mat vending machine car. Coach seating was reduced to 24 and two smaller restrooms replaced the two larger restrooms that were located one at each of the car. The smaller restrooms were located at the coach end of the car. Where one of the large restrooms had been removed new vending machines dispensing sandwiches and cold foods, cold drinks, coffee and hot chocolate, warm dishes that could be micro-waved and plastic utensils were all available at that end of the car. There were four tables two on either side of the aisle with seating for four next. Many passengers returned to their coach seats with their food. A car attendant kept the four tables and sixteen chairs clean. The car was assigned to the Albuquerque – El Paso EL PASOAN replacing an earlier diner on this train that operated a round trip daily. When the EL PASOAN schedule was transferred to the Santa Fe’s two Budd RDC’s the 3153 was transferred to Richmond for assignment to the GOLDEN GATE.
In December 1953 and January 1954 the Topeka shops were busy rebuilding nine Lunch Counter Dining cars 1569 – 1577 into 13 seat Lunch Counter 8-seat Dining 6-Crew Dormitory cars with no change of numbers. These cars were assigned to the GRAND CANYON after conversion.
Good news came to the EL CAPITAN-CHICAGOAN-KANSAS CITYAN in early 1954 when Budd delivered eight Big Domes for these trains. The dome level of these cars featured 57-coach seats and 18-lounge seats at tables. Beneath the dome was located was located the Nurses Room a Bar and 28-seat Lounge. In 1956 when the EL CAPITAN became Hi-Level the six Big-Domes that had been assigned to the EL CAPITAN pool were transferred to the CHIEF. Later when the CHIEF was discontinued three of the Big-Domes were transferred to the TEXAS CHIEF between Chicago and Houston.

BIG DOME 57-COACH SEAT 18-SEAT LOUNGE DOME LEVEL NURSES ROOM BAR 28-SEAT LOUNGE LOWER LEVEL Budd Company January – March 1954 (Built for and assigned to EL CAPITAN-CHICAGOAN-KANSAS CITYAN pool later six assigned to CHIEF)

506 – 513

Six additional Big Dome cars 550 -555 with the same upper level seating were delivered to the Santa Fe in April – May 1954 for a new Santa Fe train the SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF introduced that year. These Big-Domes and 48-seat Leg-rest coaches were the only new cars built for this new daily train between Chicago and San Francisco. This was also the only CHIEF to operate via the Santa Fe’s southern route through the Texas and Oklahoma panhandles. The lower level of cars 550-555 featured a bar and 8-seat lounge only with the rest of the lower level occupied by a twelve crew dormitory. These cars remained in SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF service until the start of Amtrak.

BIG-DOME 57-SEAT COACH 18-SEAT LOUNGE DOME LEVEL BAR 9-SEAT LOUNGE 12-CREW DORMITORY LOWER LEVEL Budd Company April – May 1954 (Built for and assigned to SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF)

550 – 555

In October 1954 the Topeka shops remodeled lunch counter dining car 1501 into a cafeteria car removing the lunch counter and replacing it with a cafeteria serving area. The car remained in GOLDEN GATE service after rebuilding.
Big news came to the Santa Fe in 1956 with the introduction of the Hi-Level EL CAPITANS. Except for the Baggage cars all cars were Hi-Level having two levels each comprised of Transition coaches to go from standard level cars to the Hi-Levels, Hi-Level Coaches, Hi-Level Diners, and Hi-Level Lounge cars.
Budd delivered the six Hi-Level Bar Lounge cars 575-580 in May – June 1956 to the Santa Fe. The Lounge area of the upper level featured double windows similar to dome windows except there was no forward vision. There was a News-stand full service bar and small restrooms located at one end of the upper level with lounge seating for 60 passengers occupying the remaining upper level. The lower level of the Hi-Level Lounge cars featured a Bar and 26-seat lounge. The lower level Bar provided light snacks as well as adult beverages.

HI-LEVEL “TOP OF THE CAP” WITH NEWS-STAND BAR and 60-SEAT LOUNGE UPPER LEVEL “KACHINA” COFFEE SHOP BUFFET 26-SEAT LOUNGE LOWER LEVEL CARS Budd Company May-June 1956 (Built for Hi-Level EL CAPITAN trains)

575 – 580

The other Hi-Level feature cars built for the 1956 EL CAPITANS was the Dining cars. These cars featured Dining seating for 80-passengers on the upper level with two waiter stations where food was delivered to the waiters by Dumbwaiters from the kitchen level below. The upper level waiter stations also carried all of the condiments and linens for meals. The lower level Kitchen was the largest in train service until the Amtrak Superliner diners entered service. These cars were so heavy they rode on six-wheel trucks to distribute the weight over the rails.

HI-LEVEL DINING CARS 80-DINING SEATS UPPER LEVEL KITCHEN LOWER LEVEL Budd Company June – July 1956 (Built for and assigned to 1956 EL CAPITANS)

650 – 656

In June and July 1956 the Topeka shops rebuilt five Baggage – Dormitory – Lounge cars into Baggage 21-crew dormitory cars for the CHIEF pool. These cars were completed in June 1956:
1380 SAN MIGUEL
1381 SAN MARCIAL
The following cars were completed in July 1956.
1383 SAN SIMON
1385 SAN PASCAL
1386 SAN CLEMENTE
In 1957 the Topeka shops cycled the SUPER CHIEF Pleasure domes 500 - 505 and SUPER CHIEF Dining cars 600 – 606 through a complete refurbishing before returning to their SUPER CHIEF assignments.
The majority of Santa Fe streamlined feature cars went on to Amtrak where even today five of the former EL CAPITAN lounge cars still remain in service operating in the Amtrak COAST STARLIGHT.
Most of the Santa Fe big domes still operate in summer service in Alaska for one of the cruise ship operators. This was after they operated for a number of years in the Auto-Train. One of the Big-Domes was retained by Santa Fe for executive train service and today is part of the BN-SF business fleet joining one of the former GN Great-Domes in this service.

TTFN AL:

[siberianmo]

Hey Guys!

Given that tonight is a night out with my bride - Valentine's Day, ya know! - thought I'd ask for some "relief" here at the bar. Hopefully there will be sufficient numbers of you to pick up the slack in order to keep our "Theme for the Day - Santa Fe" movin' right along![tup]

Good stuff from Al - lengthy, long, alot, but still good stuff![swg] Also nice to see Russell pop in with a few comments as well.

Okay boyz, I've gotta get movin' on other things before this afternoon turns to evening.

I'll try to catch y'all tonight!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[LoveDomes]

Hey Tom

What a day! You've exceed yourself, Mate![tup][tup][tup][tup] That's a four-[tup] Salute! Nice work and it's a darned shame that there are so few around here to enjoy your efforts. However, I appreciate them and honestly don't know where the energy comes from to keep up the pace. Amazing.

Love those song lyrics! Haven't "heard" that one in ages ... sure brings back some memories, doesn't it[?][swg]

We're experiencing a rather nice day, unless of course one looks around to see the remnants of our blizzard. Temperatures are rising and will be in the 50's for a couple of days with rain forecast for all day Friday. That translates to one heck of a mess. Moan & Groan, Moan & Groan!

Okay, here's my humble contribution to the "Theme for this day - Sant a Fe"

Name trains of the Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe (AT&SF)

QUOTE: Antelope
California Limited
California Special
Cavern
Centennial State
Chicagoan
Chief
El Capitan
El Pasoan
Fast Mail Express
Golden Gate
Grand Canyon
Kansas Cityan
Oil Flyer
Ranger
San Diegan
Scout
Super Chief
Texas Chief
Tulsan
West Texas Express

As always, these are perhaps the best known, there most probably were others - but these are the "names" most of us can and will relate to.

How about a JD on the rocks! Nothing to eat right now . . . just want to relax and take in everything that has been provided by you, Al and whoever else has been here.

Lars

[siberianmo]

THEME FOR THE DAY - Santa Fe

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #25

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Santa Fe (AT&SF) from a 1952 advertisement in my personal collection.
first Posted on page 163


. . . . . . . . . . a trip . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . you’ll always . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . remember . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . The comfortable way to see . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . the most colorful part of America . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . is on anyone of Santa Fe’s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . five famous trains between . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . Chicago and California – through . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . the Southwest Indian Country . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Super Chief – Chief – El Capitan – Grand Canyon – California Ltd.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Santa Fe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

THEME FOR THE DAY - Santa Fe

[siberianmo]

THEME FOR THE DAY - Santa Fe

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #43

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Santa Fe (AT&SF) from a 1949 advertisement in my personal collection.
first Posted on page 191

always “at Ease” on El Capitan

Easy dress * Easy Comfort * Easy cost

”Come as your are!” on this famous Santa Fe
all-chair streamliner. Just 39 ¾ easy hors
between Chicago and California. Restful
club lounge car “just for fun!” Fred Harvey meals . . .
Coach fare plus a small extra fare . . .
Same route as The Chief
And Super Chief.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

THEME FOR THE DAY - Santa Fe

[siberianmo]

Okay boyz - that's it for me! Look who has popped in to take the bar - Cindy!! - now isn't that a suprise[?]<grin>

I'll be back later tonight - so enjoy the surroundings and keep the "Theme" movin' on . . .

By the by - Rob send me an Email about difficulties getting the current pages to come up on his 'puter. Says it's been this way for a couple of days. Perhaps others are experiencing the same problem. Hmmmmm. Don't know, other than to say these things have happened on other forums as well - overloading "ancient" equipment - Kalmbach's and personal stuff as well. Something to watch for . . .

By the by - thanx for stoppin' by, Lars nice compilation, as usual![tup] Appreciate the kind words too![tup] Words of wisdom: let it melt![swg]

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the hoiuse and $ for the jukebox. Canadian Northern and Santa Fe. Lovely! The picture of the PA was too much! Santa Fe was mentioned at home every so often when grandma went west. She was a devotee of the El Capitan - not just for the budget part of it, but also because she felt the crown was "friendlier." The El Cap ad posted sort of jogged this back into my memory (or what's left of it today)

In 1969, the ATSF had the following name trains still operating

"Super Chief" - Chicago-KC-Los Angeles
El Capitan - Chicago-KC-Los Angeles
San Francisco Chief - Chicago-KC-California
Texas Chief - Chicago-KC-Ft. Worth and Houston
Tulsan - Chicago-KC-Tulsa

Incidentally, for those interested in secondary operations of the ATSF, I heartily recommend the book Coach, Cabbage and Caboose - wonderful volume; I don't know whether it's still in print, but the copies on the used market command a premium price - as in fill up the SUV's tank several times price.

Our snow is starting to melt as we have had a 35+ degree temperature swing today.

Tom - I am working on pictures - the problem is that work is the curse of the drinking class. Pulling weekends hasn't helped much either - but I think we are starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel - with my luck, it's an oncoming train...

No problem getting pages, etc. to come up here, although the Trains newswire is slower than..........

Sorry abt. the brief post, but it's late and the sun(!) is on the west side of the bldg. Time to go home and start 4th shift. Math homework for the younger set and dog wrangling for the older folks.

work safe

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams CINDY and certainly a round to celebrate Santa Fe Day[tup][tup][tup].

TOM [wow]. The Santa Fe day had been promised for a few days and now it as arrived it was well worth waiting for[yeah].
I'm afraid I can't add any info on the SF but the Warbonnet livery on the diesels was on many a cover of a railroad book in England as I grew up in the 50s .It was in my opinion the best colour scheme ever on a diesel and how well it suited the early locos.
Even the locos of today look great in it having seen it in Kansas City, are they still painting some locos in that livery today?.

Many thanks AL for the Super Chief and the other trains details we are lucky to have that much knowledge at Our Place. I bet there are a few stories from the Dome car the
Hollywood crowd used to ride in.

Great photos and Ads as well. The Harvey Girls was on TCM recently. I missed it but perhaps it wil be on again soon.

Thanks CM3 and LARS for the named trains look forward to more on the Santa Fe. truly a great railroad. PETE.

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

In keeping with the Santa Fe theme for the day.

ATCHISON
TOPEKA
&
SANTA FE Streamlined Head End Cars
by AL

The first lightweight streamlined headend cars purchased by the Santa Fe were a pair from the Budd Company as part of the first SUPER CHIEF order. These two cars one a full Baggage 3430 the other a Baggage 30’Railway Post Office car 3400. These two stainless steel cars were delivered to the Santa Fe as part of a nine-car order for the first streamlined SUPER CHIEF in April 1937. Only one of the two head end cars the Baggage Car 3430 would operate in the SUPER CHIEF when it entered service beginning May 18, 1937. As the Baggage 30’Railway Post Office Car was not assigned to the SUPER CHIEF it was operated in numerous other heavyweight trains until March 15, 1938 when it found permanent assignment to the first SAN DIEGAN consist for operation between Los Angeles and San Diego.

BAGGAGE CAR Budd Company April 1937 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF)

3430

BAGGAGE 30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CAR Budd Company April 1937 (Built for SUPER CHIEF assigned to SAN DIEGAN)

3400

Santa Fe next placed large orders with both Pullman Standard and Budd for lightweight streamlined cars. There were enough new cars ordered to equip six CHIEF consists, two EL CAPITAN consists, two consists to equip the CHICAGOAN-KANSAS CITYAN two GOLDEN GATE consists and additional cars for the first SAN DIEGAN consist as well as a second SUPER CHIEF consist.
The head end cars that were purchased for the CHIEF were from Budd as were all the head end cars for these trains and were delivered in early November 1937 for the January 21, 1938 debut of the streamlined CHIEFS.
Each consist of the CHIEF was assigned one of six Baggage – Barber Shop – Buffet 30seat lounge cars all numbered and named with SAN prefix names.

BAGGAGE – BARBER SHOP – VALET – BUFFET 30-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company November 1937 (Built for and assigned to CHIEF)

1380 SAN MIGUEL

1381 SAN MARCIAL

1382 SAN FERNANDO

1383 SAN SIMON

1384 SAN IGNACIO

1385 SAN PASCAL

The Budd Company delivered two Baggage 7 Crew Dormitory Bar 30 seat Lounge Cars in January 1938 for assignment to both the first and second streamlined SUPER CHIEF consists. At that time the Santa Fe withdrew Baggage Car 3430 from the first streamlined SUPER CHIEF consist and replaced it with one of the new cars from Budd 1386-SAN CLEMENTE in February 1938. The second streamlined SUPER CHIEF consist was assigned 1387-SAN ACACIA.

BAGGAGE 7-CREW DORMITORY BAR 30-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company January 1938 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEFS)

1386 SAN CLEMENTE

1387 SAN ACACIA

On the same date February 22, 1938 that the second streamlined SUPER CHIEF consist entered service the Santa Fe inaugurated the all Coach streamlined EL CAPITAN between Chicago and Los Angeles with two consists operating on the same days at the SUPER CHIEF. These five car trains had a single combination head end car assigned to each train set. These cars were Baggage 13 Crew Dormitory Newsstand 32 revenue seat Coach combinations 3480 and 3481.

BAGGAGE 13 CREW DORMITORY NEWSSTAND 32-REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Budd Company January 1938 (Built for and assigned to EL CAPITAN)

3480, 3481

The previously mentioned 3400 Baggage 30’Railway Post Office car was the next head end car to enter service at the head of the new SAN DIEGAN consist beginning March 27, 1938. The SAN DIEGAN made two round trips daily from Los Angeles to San Diego.
Santa Fe inaugurated two seven-car streamliners between Chicago and Wichita, Kansas daily in each direction beginning April 17, 1938. The first car in each streamlined consist of the CHICAGOAN-KANSAS CITYAN was a new Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car numbers 3401 and 3402.

BAGGAGE 30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS Budd Company March 1938 (Built for and assigned to CHICAGOAN – KANSAS CITYAN)

3401, 3402

The final new trains of the Santa Fe inaugurated in 1938 were the two consists of the GOLDEN GATES seven-car streamliners between Oakland and Bakersfield with Bus connections at terminals to and from Los Angeles from Bakersfield or to or from San Francisco from Oakland.
The head end cars built for these trains were Baggage 36-revenue seat Coach combinations 3490 and 3491.

BAGGAGE 36-REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Budd Company April 1938 (Built for and assigned to GOLDEN GATES)

3490, 3491

Santa Fe received two 60’ Railway Post Office cars from Budd in January 1940 80 and 81. These cars were assigned to the CHICAGOAN – KANSAS CITYAN replacing the earlier Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office cars that had been operated in these trains since inaugurated. By this time the CHICAGOAN – KANSAS CITYAN route had been expanded westward from Wichita to Oklahoma City. It is believed the two Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office cars 3401 and 3402 continued to operate in the consists using their Baggage space only until March 1940 when they were at last replaced by Baggage 38-revenue seat Coach Combinations 3492 and 3493 newly delivered by Pullman Standard. The two older Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office cars 3401 and 3402 were then assigned to the CHIEF pool of cars that was now operating with Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Cars in their consists. These were mostly heavyweights in fact 3401 and 3402 were the first two lightweight streamlined cars assigned to the CHIEF pool.

60’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS Budd Company January 1940 (Built for and assigned to CHICAGOAN – KANSAS CITYAN)

80, 81

BAGGAGE 38-REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Pullman Standard March 1940 (Built for and assigned to CHICAGOAN – KANSAS CITYAN)

3492, 3493

One other Baggage Crew Dormitory Coach Combination was delivered to the Santa Fe in March 1940 this was a Baggage 13 Crew 32-revenue seat Coach combination from Budd number 3482. This car was assigned to a third EL CAPITAN consist that was then entering service.

BAGGAGE 13-CREW DORMITORY 32-REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATION Budd Company March 1940 (Built for and assigned to EL CAPITAN)

3482

Baggage Car 3430 originally built for the first streamlined SUPER CHIEF consist was next assigned to the first SAN DIEGAN consist. This was done as a means to carry baggage on the one round trip daily by the SAN DIEGAN when the Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office car 3400 was not in the consist.
When a second SAN DIEGAN consist entered service on a twice-daily basis round trip two head end cars were built for assignment to that train set. First there was another Baggage 30' Railway Post Office car 3403 delivered to the Santa Fe by Budd in May 1941. Full Baggage car number 3431 delivered in June 1941 was the other car assigned to the second SAN DIEGAN. Only rarely did the occasion arise when both head end cars were in the consists at the same time.

BAGGAGE 30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CAR Budd Company May 1941 (Built for and assigned to SAN DIEGAN)

3403

BAGGAGE CAR Budd Company June 1941 (Built for and assigned to SAN DIEGAN)

3431

The Santa Fe operating two sets of EL CAPITAN train sets by 1941 was faced with lengthier trains and additional space for the crew became necessary as that also increased. The Santa Fe rebuilt two of the three Baggage Crew Dormitory Coaches 3480-3481 to Baggage 22 Crew Dormitory cars during February – March 1941 in Topeka shops with no changes of numbers.
The Santa Fe received an order from Budd between January and May 1942 for a group of 21-Baggage cars numbered 3432 – 3452. These cars were built for general service but each consist of the CHIEF was assigned one car from this pool. In photos of the period they are also shown operating in the otherwise all heavyweight RANGER the Santa Fe train between Chicago and the Galveston. They turned up in the SCOUT and GRAND CANYON trains as well. Assigned as they were to general service they could turn up in almost any Santa Fe train.

BAGGAGE CARS Budd Company January – May 1942 (Built for and assigned to the CHIEF and General Service)

3432 – 3452

The Santa Fe received five Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Cars 3404 – 3408 from Budd in October 1945 for assignment to the CHIEF. As five cars were not enough to equip the six sets of CHIEF equipment one set was assigned a heavyweight RPO. These cars only operated in the CHIEF until April 1947 when they were temporarily replaced by 60’ Railway Post Office Cars 82-88 intended for the SUPER CHIEF. After the CHIEF lost its RPO the 3404 – 3408 series cars were assigned to General Service in 1947 with 3406 finding permanent assignment in the EL PASOAN train set beginning in May 1953. The EL PASOAN was the daily round trip service offered by the Santa Fe between Albuquerque, New Mexico and El Paso, Texas.

BAGGAGE 30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS Budd Company October 1945 (Built for and assigned to CHIEF initially)

3404 – 3408

In December 1945 the Santa Fe Topeka Shops rebuilt the two Baggage 38-revenue seat Coach Combinations 3492 and 3493 into Baggage 12-Crew Dormitory 28 revenue seat Coaches for continued service in the CHICAGOAN – KANSAS CITYAN. The majority of the space needed for the crew dormitory came from the baggage area. The two cars were assigned to CHICAGOAN – KANSAS CITYAN for the dining car and lounge crew.
Prewar CHIEF Baggage – Crew Dormitory – Buffet Lounge Car 1384 SAN IGNACIO was rebuilt in Topeka shops in March to a straight Baggage 22 crew Dormitory car and was then assigned to one of the SUPER CHIEF consists at that time.
In anticipation of the SUPER CHIEF going daily the Santa Fe ordered seven 60’ Railway Post Office Cars 82 – 88 delivered by American Car & Foundry in April 1947. Until 1948 when the SUPER CHIEF became daily the cars were assigned to the CHIEF. Once enough new equipment was delivered for daily operation of the SUPER CHIEFS the cars were transferred to that train. The CHIEF then lost its RPO and thereafter carried only storage mail and baggage with some REA express shipments.

60’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS American Car & Foundry April – May, 1947 (Built for and assigned to the SUPER CHIEF)

82 – 88

Also delivered by American Car & Foundry at the same time in April – May 1947 were eighteen Baggage Cars 3409 – 3426. These cars were assigned to General Service but at least one of these cars operated in every CHIEF train set. When the TEXAS CHIEF was inaugurated the cars were also assigned to service in the three train sets for that train.

BAGGAGE CARS American Car & Foundry April – May 1947 (Built for and assigned to General Service besides CHIEF and TEXAS CHIEF)

3409 – 3426

In July – August 1947 the Santa Fe received three 60’ Railway Post Office cars numbers 50 – 52 for assignment to the TEXAS CHIEF between Chicago and Galveston. Actually these cars were pooled with the seven received earlier that year for the SUPER CHIEF 82-88. Between the 50-52 series and 82-88 series the Santa Fe had ten of these cars with six assigned to the SUPER CHIEF consists and four available for operation in the TEXAS CHIEF. These cars could be found operating in either train as they were exchanged frequently in Chicago.

60’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS American Car & Foundry July – August 1947 (Built for and assigned to TEXAS CHIEF)

50 – 52

The last three head end cars received by the Santa Fe in 1947 were three Baggage 22- Crew Dormitory Cars 3477 - 3479 from Pullman Standard delivered in August – September 1947. These three Baggage 22 Crew Dormitory cars were for assignment to the daily EL CAPITAN train sets. Along with the three prewar cars 3480 - 3482 that had already been converted from Baggage Crew Dormitory Coach Combinations to Baggage 22 Crew Dormitory cars in 1941. This gave the EL CAPITAN the six cars of this type necessary for daily operation.

BAGGAGE 22-CREW DORMITORY CARS Pullman Standard August – September 1947 (Built for and assigned to EL CAPITANS)

3477 – 3479

In February, 1948 the Santa Fe shops in Topeka modernized six-heavyweight Baggage Buffet 30 seat Lounge Cars and repainted them Silver with shadow line striping to mimic the fluted stainless steel panels found on the streamlined cars these cars were numbered 1300 - 1305. These cars were then assigned to the CHIEF and the streamlined cars of this type formerly assigned to the CHIEF were assigned to the daily SUPER CHIEFS until replaced by new cars in October – November 1950. At that time the old modernized heavyweights 1300 - 1305 were retired from the CHIEF replaced by the original streamlined cars from 1938.
Another of the Santa Fe Baggage Dormitory Lounge cars 1387 SAN ACACIA originally built for the second streamlined SUPER CHIEF consist was rebuilt to a Baggage 22 Crew Dormitory car in June 1948by Topeka shops. It was then assigned to the EL CAPITAN trains as a spare.
Santa Fe received four Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Cars numbered 3600 - 3603 from American Car & Foundry in June 1951. These cars were assigned to General Service and were not assigned to any specific trains but instead assigned to the pool of these cars that included 3404 – 3408.

BAGGAGE 30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS American Car & Foundry June 1951 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

3600 – 3603

Santa Fe rebuilt the Baggage –Dormitory- Coach 3482 into a Baggage 22 Crew Dormitory car in August, 1952 for assignment to the EL CAPITAN. This car was built for the third EL CAPITAN train set and was not converted at the same time as the other two in 1941. When the war ended the Santa Fe assigned 1384 SAN IGNACIO after it had been rebuilt to a Baggage 22 Crew Dormitory car in March 1946. The 3482 had then been assigned to General Service at that time although it was still found operating in the EL CAPITAN quite often.
The next group of head end cars to arrive on the Santa Fe were forty straight baggage cars from Budd numbered 3500 – 3539 delivered between June and November, 1953. These cars were assigned to premium service trains such as the SUPER CHIEFS and EL CAPITANS both needing six for a total of twelve. In addition the CHIEF received six and the TEXAS CHIEFS received a total of eight as they operated with two sometimes more in each train set. Actually they operated in a pool that was based out of Chicago for service any of these trains as necessary. Other baggage cars of this series were assigned to the new SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF when that train was inaugurated in 1954. The Santa Fe made it a practice to assign the very latest cars to the premium service trains such as the SUPER CHIEF, CHIEF, EL CAPITAN, TEXAS CHIEF, and SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF with all cars being stainless steel fluted sidecars in these trains.

BAGGAGE CARS Budd Company June – November 1953 (Built for and assigned to premium service trains)

3500 – 3539

Budd delivered ten similar cars in outside appearance to the forty baggage cars numbered 3500 – 3539. These cars were actually Storage Mail cars and were assigned numbers 3650 – 3659 and traveled locked between destinations unlike the Baggage cars that were manned. In trains that carried Railway Post Office cars they were generally trainlined either ahead of or just behind these cars but ahead of the trains working baggage car. In other cases the cars were assigned to the mail and express trains that carried a single rider coach across the state of Kansas for any passengers that wished to ride these trains that generally stopped at nearly every station. These cars being nearly identical to the Baggage cars were often substituted when one of the Baggage cars was not available for any reason.

STORAGE MAIL CARS Budd Company November – December 1953 (Built for and assigned to General service)

3650 – 3659

In January – February 1954 the Santa Fe received ten 60’ Railway post office cars from Budd numbered 89 – 98. These ten cars were assigned to the SUPER CHIEF and TEXAS CHIEF replacing older streamlined cars of the same type in these trains.

60’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS Budd Company January – February 1954 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF – TEXAS CHIEF)

89 – 98

American Car & Foundry delivered 25 Storage Mail cars 3660 – 3684 between January – April 1955. These 25 cars were assigned to General Service but were often found operating in the daily FAST MAIL trains consists.

STORAGE MAIL CARS American Car & Foundry January – April 1955 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

3660 – 3684

In 1956 the EL CAPITAN Baggage Dormitory cars were fitted with an Airfoil at the aft end of these cars to carry the wind flowing across the top of the cars from standard car height to the height of the trailing Hi-Level EL CAPITAN consists. At the same time this airfoil was installed the Crew Dormitory space was increased to 27 from the previous 22. This also made it necessary for a full baggage car to be carried in each EL CAPITAN consist ahead of the Baggage Crew Dormitory Car in each train set. The cars with the added airfoil were 3477 – 3482 all of them original equipment for the EL CAPITAN consists.
Still in need of additional Baggage cars for service in the express and mail trains that did not require the expense of stainless steel equipment the Santa Fe constructed fifty Baggage cars in the Topeka shops 3700 – 3749. These cars were delivered painted silver and were assigned to mail and express trains as well as secondary passenger trains.

BAGGAGE CARS Santa Fe Shops April – November 1956 (Built for and assigned to mail and express trains)

3700 – 3749

A trio of Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office cars 3604 – 3606 arrived from American Car & Foundry in July 1957. They were assigned to the TEXAS CHIEF replacing the earlier 60” Railway Post Office cars in those consists.

BAGGAGE 30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS American Car & Foundry July 1957 (Built for and assigned to TEXAS CHIEFS)

3604 – 3606

That same year Budd delivered fifteen Baggage Cars 3540 - 3554 in September – October to the Santa Fe. These cars were assigned to the SUPER CHIEF, EL CAPITAN, CHIEF, SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF, and TEXAS CHIEF pool. This group of Baggage cars was the last stainless steel cars of this type purchased by the Santa Fe.

BAGGAGE CARS Budd Company September – October 1957 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF, EL CAPITAN, CHIEF, SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF, and TEXAS CHIEF pool)

3540 – 3554

Santa Fe still in need of Baggage cars to replace older heavyweight cars in express and mail train service ordered another fifty Baggage cars to be built in the roads Topeka shops. These fifty cars were delivered between February and September 1958 numbered 3750 – 3799.

BAGGAGE CARS Santa Fe Shops February – September 1958 (Built for and assigned to mail and express trains)

3750 – 3799

In August – September 1960 the Santa Fe received ten Baggage cars from Topeka shops fitted with end doors and numbered 3990 – 3999. These cars were for the transportation of antique cars and old carriages to California by collectors of the vintage vehicles. The Santa Fe operated them most often as regular Baggage Cars, when not in special assignment transporting antique cars.

BAGGAGE CARS WITH FULL WIDTH END DOORS Santa Fe Shops August – September 1960 (Built for and assigned to Mail and Express trains)

3990 – 3999

Another order for forty of these home built Baggage cars were delivered by Santa Fe Topeka Shops between August – December 1960 numbered 3800 – 3839.

BAGGAGE CARS Santa Fe Shops August – December 1960 (Built for and assigned to Mail and Express trains)

3800 – 3839

The Santa Fe ordered 25 additional Baggage Cars to be built by their own Topeka shops with delivery taking place October – November 1961. This group of Baggage Cars continued the numbering sequence of these cars 3840 – 3864. As with the previous cars of this type they were painted silver and assigned mainly to Mail and Express trains.

BAGGAGE CARS Santa Fe Shops October – November 1961 (Built for and assigned to Mail and Express trains)

3840 – 3864

Between September and December 1962 another 25 of the Topeka built Baggage cars arrived on line numbered 3865 – 3889.

BAGGAGE CARS Santa Fe Shops September – December 1962 (Built for and assigned to Mail and Express trains)

3865 – 3889

Still purchasing these Topeka built Baggage cars in lots of 25 numbers 3890 – 3914 arrived between September – November 1963. As with all previous cars of this type they were assigned to Mail and Express trains.

BAGGAGE CARS Santa Fe Shops September – November 1963 (Built for and assigned to Mail and Express trains)

3890 – 3914

Santa Fe needing additional Crew Dormitory cars rebuilt the Pullman Sleeping car FORWARD dating back to November 1936 built originally with 8-Sections 2-Compartments 2 Double Bedrooms. This car as rebuilt retained the 8-Sections and one Bedroom for the Crew Space and the rest of this car was rebuilt to a Baggage Compartment. The work was completed in October 1963 and the car was numbered 3473.
An additional Sleeping car ORAIBI was rebuilt in December 1963 and numbered 3472. This car originally one of the first streamlined SUPER CHIEF cars delivered in April 1937 was originally 6 Double Bedroom 2 Compartment 2 Drawing Rooms. The interior of this car was gutted and Crew Dormitory space for 26 was installed with one bedroom retained for the Dining Car Steward. The remainder of the car interior was converted to a Baggage Compartment. The car was assigned number 3472 when the conversion was completed in December 1963.
In May and June 1964 the Santa Fe received their last stainless steel head end cars from Budd twelve 60’ Railway Post Office Cars numbered 99 – 110. These were the last 60’ Railway Post Office Cars built for service in the United States. Unfortunately the mail contracts were canceled shortly after their delivery so they saw very little service on the Santa Fe. In fact these cars after being stored for some time were sold to Mexico where the practically new trucks were removed for use on other cars and the bodies were scrapped.

60’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS Budd Company May – June 1964 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CHIEF and TEXAS CHIEF)

99 – 110

A final order for twenty-five Baggage cars 3915 - 3939 was received from Topeka Shops in December 1965. Identical to the earlier cars this final group was indistinguishable from all of the earlier Topeka built cars.

BAGGAGE CARS Santa Fe Shops December 1965 (Built for and assigned to Mail and Express trains)

3915 – 3939

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

Thanx Cindy for spotting me this afternoon - I owe ya![tup][tup][tup]

Okay - what have we got here[?] Posts from CM3 - Pete 'n Al - awright!![tup]

CM3 given the era you speak of, no doubt the Santa Fe was appreciated by so many people, even the ones who probably never traveled aboard those gleaming streamliners. That livery just "did it!" Wunnerful, fer sure, fer sure![swg]

Was beginning to think that the 'puter gremlins got to you too - but happy that you made it in on this fine day at the bar. Never a dull moment - Posts galore - and thus far, everyone on the same sheet of music, "The Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe"!![swg]

Thanx for the info on the Pix and hopefully you'll get some relief at work in order to do some work for us![swg] Tough crowd 'round here, eh[?]

Appreciate the round and the quarters - ole Coal Scuttle was beginning to look like a dieter!<grin>

Pete Not suprised about seeing the Santa Fe ads and other info over in "Merry Olde" - it was a grand railroad, one that I always considered more of a "standard" than the Pennsy. NOTE: I dearly loved the PRR and still do - but when it came to just plain great looking passenger trains - hands down winnah goes to Santa Fe!![yeah]

Nice to know that you've appreciated these series of Railroads from Yesteryear - there's lots of great info within the texts and much, much more on Wikipedia.

I added The Harvey Girls to the slate of flicks for The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre. Will probably show up in the March selections . . .

Thanx for the round AND for your help over at my other thread. Nice of you to jump in with those descriptions![tup][tup][tup]

Al You've been "right there" with the support for this Theme for the Day - Santa Fe!! Lotsa data, history and well put together Posts.[tup][tup][tup]

Rounds are also appreciated - keeps the ole register workin' real well! NOTE: We don't use those new-fangled 'puter type registers. Ours are strictly the ole mechanical types. Ka-ching, Ka-ching.[swg]

THANX to all who helped make our "Santa Fe Day" a success. Remember, Southern Pacific arrives next Tuesday!

Boyz - it's been quite a day and I'm about to crash 'n burn in front of the tube while watching the Olympics. So, the bar now goes to Leon the Night Man! So ring the bell Boris - drinks on me![tup]

Nite![zzz]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

We open at 6 AM (all times zones!) (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]

WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS

G’day! The best way to start the day is here with us![tup] Some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery along with a hot cuppa freshly brewed coffee “works” well! Then we have our <light> and <traditional> breakfasts from the Menu Board. So, c’mon and join us![tup]


Daily Wisdom

Its’ never happened in World Series history, and it hasn’t happened since..
(yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear: Southern Pacific arrives next Tuesday! This will be the THEME for the DAY!

* Weekly Calendar:

Today Pike Perspective’s Day!
Thursday Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday Pizza Nite! & Steak ‘n Fries Nite!
Saturday Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and – ENCORE! Saturday


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 05:21:16 (246) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 05:26:04 (246) RRs from Yesteryear #6 – Santa Fe, Part I

(3) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 06:30:59 (246) Theme for the Day! Streamliner #61 – Super Chief

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 07:20:34 (246) Theme for the Day! – Santa Fe maps

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 08:33:05 (246) Theme for the Day! – Santa Fe Ad (1950)

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 10:06:42 (246) Theme for the Day! – Santa Fe Ad (1951)

(7) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 10:33:25 (246) Acknowledgments & Santa Fe comments


(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 11:58:53 (246) RRs from Yesteryear #6 - Santa Fe, Part II

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 12:32:45 (246) Theme for the Day! On the Atchison, Topeka & the Santa Fe

(10) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Feb 20067, 12:47:05 (246) Theme for the Day!Santa Fe dining & lounge cars

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 14:03:58 (247) Comments, etc.

(12) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 14:13:12 (247) Comments & Name Trains of the Santa Fe

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 14:23:24 (247) Theme for the Day! Santa Fe Ad (1953)

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 14:48:04 (247) Theme for the Day! Santa Fe Ad (1949)

(15) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 14:56:12 (247) Comments, etc.

(16) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 15:53:48 (247) PM visit, acknowledgments, etc.

(17) pwolfe Pete Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 16:48:48 (247) Inclusive Post, etc.

(18) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 16:54:26 (247) Theme for the Day! Santa Fe head-end cars

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Feb 2006, 20:09:18 (247) Acknowledgments, etc.



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
. . . . . Double Features, all of the time . . . . .

. . . Sunday, February 12th thru 18th: Bound for Glory (1976) starring: David Carradine, Ronny Cox & Melinda Dillon – and – Emperor of the North Pole (1973) starring: Lee Marvin, Ernest Borgnine & Keith Carradine.


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and friends. I'll have a light breakfast, and here's a roll of quarters to feed the coal scuttle. "WOW" ...... is an understatment to sum-up yesterdays Santa Fe theme. Absolutely amazing material Tom, Al and CM3. Top-notch work gentelmen! I also need to recognise Al's Colorado Eagle streamliner, CM3's MTA, and Tom's Canadian Northern post from the day before. Really good stuff guys! [wow]

Here's the 2nd part of the "lingo" series .. my humble offering for the day:

Our Own Lingo by John A. Miller from Oct. 1943 Railroad Magazine

Last day of Maryville-Yuba streetcar service in California. Car No. 70 of the Sacramento Northern is crossing Sutter bridge.


We don’t know from the superintendent’s remarks what caused the damage to the car. He said the life guard was broken on the blind side. That tells us something about the equipment, anyway. It probably was a single-end box car with entrance and exit doors on one side only. In juice lingo a box car is a closed passenger car, quite different from a steam railroad boxcar employed for carrying freight.

Evidently it had a life-saving device of the type where a vertical apron under the front of the platform is mechanically connected to a scoop extending crosswise ahead of the wheels in such manner that an object striking the apron causes the scoop to drop down onto the rails and pick up whatever may be there. This kind of device has now largely replaced the fenders formerly found on streetcars. Interurban cars frequently make use of a pilot, a V-shaped apparatus framed of heavy wooden slats or steel bars. This corresponds to the steam locomotive pilot (or “cowcatcher,” as it used to be termed colloquially).

Neither aprons nor skirts, is applied to the design of electric railway cars, have any close relationship to feminine wearing apparel. These words are variously interpreted. The shadow apron, which you see in front of the new PCC equipment in St. Louis, for instance, is a device to prevent the glare from interior lights being reflected on the windshield and thus interfering with the motorman’s view of the track ahead. A common use of skirts is to screen the car trucks and under-floor equipment from view.

The fact that our derailment in front of the barn broke the life guard on the blind side did not, of course, make it a blind accident. It would have been that only if it had occurred without anyone employed by the company knowing about the matter – in other words, if it cam to attention first when a claimant appeared to demand redress for an injury incurred in a mishap of which there was no record. At the opposite extreme from the blind accident is the chargeable accident. This is one where somebody is to blame for having caused it or, at least, for having failed to prevent it. A derailment in front of a car house would ordinarily come in that classification.

Had the night superintendent not been there to handle the situation, the responsibility might have fallen on the receiver – a word not to be confused with the term retriever. The former is a man who sits in a cage and counts the turn-ins of the conductors and one-man operators as they fini***heir runs. It is he who discovers the overs and shorts to which I have referred – the occasions when the cash and tickets turned in for the day exceed those called for on the register record or day card, or when they fail to total that amount. The receiver may count the transfers (which the public often erroneously calls “passes”), but he does not do it on a transfer table. The latter is the device in the shops where cars are transferred from the wa***rack to the inspection track, or to a repair track if something serious is the matter.

In contrast to the financial work of a receiver, that of the retriever is purely mechanical. It is, in fact, a kind of glorified trolley-catcher. This is not a device to enable a late sleeper in the morning to catch his regular trolley. No, it is a piece of apparatus on the rear dash of a car which permits the trolley rope to be drawn out slowly, but which locks when a sudden tug is given to the rope if the trolley wheel leaves the wire. The retriever goes a step further. It not only halts the upward movement of the trolley pole, but slowly winds up the rope until the pole has been pulled snuggly down to the roof.

Our own lingo contains a host of other colorful terms from the come-alongs and compromise joints to angle bars and belt rails, from trolley pans and chafing plates to fish plates and breakers. Nobody knows them all, for there are many sectional variations, but if you have a good foundation in lingo you can pretty well understand what’s being said from British Columbia to Florida.

“Ladder,” such as this one leading into a Philadelphia car barn in a track layout with a series of switches.


[:I] Pedro was driving down the street in a panic because he had an important meeting and couldn't find a parking place. Looking up toward heaven, he said "Lord, take pity on me. If you find me a parking place I will go to Mass every Sunday for the rest of my life and give up tequila." Miraculously, a parking place appeared. Pedro looked up again and said "Never mind. I found one." [:I]

[:I] The husband and wife go to a counselor after 15 years of marriage. The counselor asks them what the problem is and the wife goes into a tirade listing every problem they have ever had in the 15 years they've been married. She goes on and on and on. Finally, the counselor gets up, goes around the desk, embraces the woman and kisses her passionately. The woman shuts up and sits quietly in a daze. The counselor turns to the husband and says "That is what your wife needs at least three times a week. Can you do that?" The husband thinks for a moment and replies, "Well, I can get her here Monday and Wednesday, but Friday, I golf " [:I]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tomand the rest of the early risers. Time for a coffee and a crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER # 62

KANSAS CITYAN Train 11– CHICAGOAN Train 10 AT&SF April 17, 1938 Chicago – Wichita daily each direction trains 11-12 663 miles 11 hours 50 minutes
by Al

The Santa Fe introduced a pair of Day trains using lightweight streamlined cars from the Budd Company between Chicago and Wichita, Kansas beginning April 17, 1938. These two seven car lightweight streamlined trains operated the lengthy schedule in 12-3/4 hours between end points. Shortly after entering service the trains western terminal would be moved to Oklahoma City extending running times by an additional three hours. The westbound train was named KANSAS CITYAN and the eastbound train was the CHICAGOAN. The Santa Fe inaugural runs of the two lightweight streamliners were operated with EMC E1A units 8 and 9 but within a month the Santa Fe assigned 1 and 10 the numbers of the old Santa Fe Box Cab Diesel Passenger units 1A and 1B. After being rebuilt in Santa Fe Topeka Shops with elevated cab at one end only and a new bulldog nose added at that same end, they really resembled two E1A units that had been involved in a head on collision and the shops repainted the results in the Santa Fe War bonnet scheme. These became the regular power for the KANSAS CITYAN – CHICAGOAN for many years to come. The two trains were a major success for the Santa Fe for many years.

CONSIST ONE

8L EMC E1A 1,800 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

3402 Baggage 30’Railway Post Office Car

3108 52-Revenue Seat Coach

3110 52-Revenue Seat Coach

3112 52-Revenue Seat Coach

1399 26-Revenue Seat Coach Newsstand Bar 28-Seat Tavern Lounge Car

1487 48-Seat Dining Car

3242 32-revenue Seat Parlor 8-Seat Lounge Observation

CONSIST TWO

9L EMC E1A 1,800 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

3401 Baggage 30’Railway Post office Car

3107 52-Revenue Seat Coach

3109 52-Revenue Seat Coach

3111 52-Revenue Seat Coach

1398 26-Revenue Seat Coach Newsstand Bar 28-Seat Tavern Lounge Car

1486 48-Seat Dining Car

3241 32-Revenue Seat Parlor 8-Seat Lounge Observation

Western terminal extended to Oklahoma City December 10, 1939 and a new through car service established between Chicago and Tulsa. The TULSAN as it was called operated Tulsa-Kansas City providing through car service via the CHICAGOAN/KANSAS CITYAN to and from Chicago.

Additional new cars added to CHICAGOAN/KANSAS CITYAN in 1941.

In 1954 the CHICAGOAN/KANSAS CITYAN were assigned new full length Big Dome Lounge cars.

Beginning in 1958 the westbound KANSAS CITYAN was combined with the CHIEF between Chicago and Kansas City.

In 1968 the CHICAGOAN/ KANSAS CITYAN trains were discontinued.

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

SOMETHING SPECIAL WILL BE POSTED CLOSE TO NOON TODAY –
WATCH FOR IT!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. A couple of classics this a.m." "If the Phone Don't Ring, You'll Know It;s Me," and "How Can I Miss You If You Won't Go Away." Lovely day here - sunshine - hint of warmer temps (b4 the bottom falls out again later this week), and the crows are really moving early in the a.m. They roost in a stand of oak trees on the ridge just to the west of the house - the K9 Korps does aircraft spotter duty in the a.m., letting the whole neighborhood know when they take off. Gas is $2.25 here - 20 cent drop since last Friday - can't wait until somebody sneezes in Nigeria and it goes up again.

Enjoyed the "Our Lingo" material and the groaners that appeared after it; also thanks for more ATSF information. I'm looking forward to the SP entry next week.

I think (yeah, right!) that today is pike perspectives. All I know is that I have enough equipment purchased and stored to outfit a fairly good sized hobby shop. I guess that sort of goes with the territory - my father in law picks at me abt. it, but when I tell him, "You collect tractors," that usually quiets things down a little. The time period that I model stops around 1960 so the most recent power in the fleet is a handful of GP30s.

Anyway, I was looking through some OLD MRs the other day trying to remember why I saved them - then I came upon some writings by Frank Ellison and remembered why I kept the magazines. If you are chronologically challeneged, you'll remember Frank Ellison and his Delta Lines.

Ellison truly inspired me because he was one of the early proponents of what we now call "operation." IOW he tried to put a real railroad in his basement. Not only that, he was a fine writer who gave his readers the feeling of actually "being there." Not bad, if you can do it. What I liked abt. his writings was that he did not take himself too seriously; not a bad thing, either.

His road, of course, was the Delta Lines. Ellsion lived in New Orleans so the name made sense. It was an outside third-rail operation (O scale). Power was provided by monstrous sets of batteries that began life on some Illinois Central passenger cars.

Ellison's idea that the trains were part of a larger stage was way ahead of its time and he did his best to give the impression that the models were part of a larger, purposeful operation. Freight and passenger trains ran on schedules; local freights got out of the way of main line trains, etc. I tried to do the same thing on my own layout with varying degrees of success. There are pictures of the Delta Lines around, but I don't think anybody ever made a film of it - too bad, it would have been a fascinating glimpse into the past.

I'll be in and out for the next 5 days or so. I hope things will settle down and I'll be able to get back on some kind of regular posting schedule.

work safe

[Anonymous]

Coalminer3,

Thanks for sharing your story on the B&A in New England. I'm from Framingham and found at this site ( http://www.zekedev.com/sites/boston_line/index.cfm ) B&A track plans from 1950, from Rennselaer, NY to Boston, MA. I'm interested in modeling the B&A at Framingham during the 50-60's. Now I'm trying to find the track plans of the NYNH&H that went through Framingham (north and south). Have any clues were I could find them?

Thanks,
Daniel

[siberianmo]

For: SmithBrazil - Daniel

I see this is your first Post on the Kalmbach Forums - [#welcome] Welcome aboard! and we all hope you enjoy your time with those of us who enjoy real and model trains.

This thread (site) is for Classic Trains and perhaps you would find what you are looking for on the Model Railroad Forum. Just check through all of the Forums available and you should quickly determine where best to Post your question.

You will also find that many participants of these Forums freely give of their personal infomation on the "Profile" page. Yours is rather lacking in information therefore, it would be difficult for anyone to "get to know you" and of course, contact you by Email. Your choice, of course - but if you "click" on my cyber name (left hand side of the Post) you will quickly see my "profile."

Again, enjoy your time on the Forums and if you find our Thread interesting, c'mon back - just be sure to check out what we are all about. Starting off on Page One of this and any other Thread you find yourself on is a good way to learn.

Later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Mornin' Gents!

A bit of a chill in the air here in mid-Continent USA, but we're supposed to get back into the 60s once again. The rains are en route, so they tell us, with tomorrow expected to be a "wash out." Where in the world has winter gone[?]

Topped off the tank on the way home from our Valentine's Day dinner and petrol was at $1.97 (rounded). That price surely won't hold for very long . . . . but I suppose we all need to be "thankful" for whatever "break" we can find, eh[?]

Appreciate the favorable comments regarding yesterday's "Marathon" on the Santa Fe. Lots and lots of information fer sure, fer sure - and I didn't Post everything in my files![swg]

Heard from Rob again and his 'puter situation isn't getting any better. Still cannot access the most current pages. Sez he's working on getting a new one. Sure do miss his Posts and of course, he's missing out on some great stuff 'round here.

Haven't received anything from BK lately, so there's nothing new to "report" on his whereabouts. If you recall, this European business trip of his started shortly after the New Year began. [wow] Now THAT's a hulluva trip, eh[?] For all the guys who complain about being gone for a few days, think about that one . . . .

RENDEZVOUS REPORT

Hotel reservations have been taken care of by Rob for those of us attending our "First Annual" get together in Toronto this May. The activities are falling into place quite well, so this idea of mine is beginning to bear fruit.

Looks like it will be a "foursome" and we're all looking forward to a great couple of days in "Oh Canada!"[swg]

Anyone interested in participating should get an Email off to me ASAP, but the timing is now pretty much at "critical stage."

Acknowledgments:

I see Doug has begun the day with a long-winded Post [swg] but well appreciated! Those jokes put us all in a good mood, nice way to start the day![tup][tup] A roll of quarters from you and not a single Michigan one in it! Whazup with that[?][swg] Thanx![tup]

Al You are a tenacious character, fer sure, fer sure! Still at the good old Santa Fe this AM, eh[?] No problem - it's all great input and somewhere "out there" are some browsers who are simply amazed at how much info there is on this Thread of ours.[tup][tup]

CM3 Frank Ellison, now there's a name from way back when. I recall reading lots of "stuff" regarding him and his model railroading expertise. A pace setter fer sure, fer sure![tup][tup] By the by, yours may be the ONLY submission for "Pike Perspectives Day!"[tup] Thanx for remembering!

Appreciate the round and quarters for Herr Wurlitzer![tup]

Okay boyz, time to order something from the menu board . . .

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Morning Tom a spiked coffee and light breakfast if you please [:D] here's a sack of dubloons for the Coal scuttle as well ( best not to ask where they came from. Boris sadi they were in the "change" he got at the second national )

Well the system has let me read a couple pages today, odd that onlt thuis thread is not loading properly, I can log in on any of the other forums and not have any dificulty [alien]'s perhaps.

Anyway a few fractured responces as i have no way of knowing what was on 244 or 245.

Tom truly good stuff on the Sante Fe yesterday,excelleant info ond encores to be sure.I'm not a SF guy so I had no relevant info to add but I surly enjoyed your efforts [tup] Al and Russell and Lars Amazing add ons to tom's body of work as well, I see that Al has graced us with several more thought provoking and on topic SF streamliners. lars the dome info was again surly on target and enhanced our reading pleasure as well [tup] It was nice to see our resident SF guy Russ drop some thought on us as well,truly a testiment to the boss and this thread [tup]

Doug i see that you have come up with a article series close to my heart. Too bad that I can't convince you to join us in may, we could let you see the various items of lingo in use. of coasre your museum does have a fair bit of electric equiopment so it is old hat as they say for you. Hopefully I can catch an encore of part 1 as I can't get the blammed page to load soI can read it first hand [sigh]

I see our good firend CM3 has started us off well on this weeks pikes perspectives. Frank Ellison was truly one of the pioneers with his thoughts and concepts on how model railroads were to be designed and operated. I know that Tony Koester and Allan Maclelland have continued in his foot steps as they were, createing realisticness from the either of mrring.

I had thought that some film had been shot of Frank's layout, if not I'm sure that Carsten's( sorry Kalmbach ) did run a book and possibly a video on his layout. I'll have to go over to their site and check now.

Well folks that's as caught up as i can get at the moment. BTW where's Nick at these days(daze) Boris is pinning away for him. [alien]

for those who have recoieved the first rendezvous email please respopnd back that it was recieved,this way I know that I have the right addresses for further communications.If anyone else is thinking of joining us I ahve one extra room reservation which I'll sit on for a week, then it will get cancelled,as there is a hockey tournament in town that weekend as well and I'm sure that the room can be of use.

Later Rob

[siberianmo]

RAILWAYS of EUROPE #1 – British Rail

British Rail



Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


British Railways (BR), later rebranded as British Rail, ran the British railway system from the nationalisation of the 'Big Four' British railway companies in 1948 until its privatisation in stages between 1994 and 1997.

This period saw massive changes in the nature of the railway network: steam traction was eliminated in favour of diesel and electric power, passengers replaced freight as the main source of business, and the network was severely rationalised.

History

Background


British Railways Eastern Region timetable for Summer 1963.

The rail transport system in Great Britain developed during the 19th century. After the grouping of 1923 by the Railways Act 1921 there were four large British railway companies, each dominating its own geographic area. These were the Great Western Railway (GWR), the London, Midland and Scottish Railway (LMS), the London and North Eastern Railway (LNER) and the Southern Railway (SR).

The London Underground and the Glasgow Subway were independent concerns and there was a small number of independent light railways and industrial railways, which did not contribute significant mileage to the system. Neither were non-railway-owned tramways considered part of the system.

During the Second World War the railways were taken into state control. They were heavily damaged by enemy action and were run down aiding the war effort.

Nationalisation

The Transport Act 1947 made provision for the nationalisation of the network, as part of a policy of nationalising public services by Clement Attlee's Labour Government. British Railways came into existence on 1 January 1948 with the merger of the Big Four, under the control of the Railway Executive of the Briti***ransport Commission (BTC).

The Northern Counties Committee lines owned by the LMS in Northern Ireland were quickly sold to the Stormont Government, becoming part of the Ulster Transport Authority (UTA) in 1949.

The emblem of British Railways, also called the "Ferret and Dartboard"

British Railways

The new system was split geographically into six regions along the lines of the Big Four:

• Eastern Region (ER) — southern LNER lines.
• North Eastern Region (NER) — northern LNER lines in England and all ex-LMS lines east of Skipton.
• London Midland Region (LMR) — LMS lines in England and Wales and most ex-LNER lines west of Skipton.
• Scottish Region (ScR) — LMS and LNER lines in Scotland.
• Southern Region (SR) — SR lines.
• Western Region (WR) — GWR lines.

These regions would form the basis of the BR business structure until the 1980s. The Eastern and North Eastern Regions were merged to form the Eastern Region in the 1960s, Anglia Region was split off from the Eastern Region in the 1980s. They retained a level of independence, though there was also some centralisation.


ex-LMS Jubilee Class 45641 Sandwich at Chinley in 1954 [Wikimedia Commons]

1955 Modernisation Plan

After the Second World War, Britain's railways fell behind others in the world. Countries like Japan, USA and France were experimenting with new diesels and electrics. However, Britain wasn't, and the run down network deteriorated even more because of painfully slow rebuilding. Finally, and lately, came the modernisation plan for Britain's railways. It cost the government much more than it should have, because of bad timing.

The 1955 Modernisation Plan, detailed in the Briti***ransport Commission's (BTC) Modernisation and Re-equipment of British Railways, argued for spending £1,240 million over a period of 15 years. Services were to be made more attractive to passengers and freight operators, thus recovering traffic which was being lost to the roads. There were three important areas:

• Electrification of principal express routes, the Eastern Region of British Railways, Kent, Birmingham and Central Scotland,
• Large-scale introduction of diesel and electric traction with new coaching stock to replace steam locomotives
• Resignalling and track renewal

A government White Paper was produced in 1956, stating that modernisation would help eliminate BR's financial deficit by 1962.

However the modernisation plan failed to take into account the effect that mass road transport would have upon the traditional role of the railways, and as a result much money was wasted by heavy investment in things like marshalling yards, at a time when small wagon-load traffic was in rapid decline. Much money was also wasted by the rapid introduction of new classes of diesel locomotives into fleet service without an adequate period of prototype testing, which resulted in several classes being scrapped within a very few years of their being built. The failure of the Modernisation Plan led to a distrust of British Rail's financial planning abilities by the Treasury which was to dog BR for the rest of its existence.

Tank engines at May 1966 at Barry Scrapyard (GNU Free Documentation)

There was mass withdrawal of steam types

The Beeching Axe and the end of steam

Main article: Beeching Axe

In 1963, BR chairman Dr Richard Beeching published the Re-Shaping of British Railways calling for major rationalisation of the system. Many rural routes were unprofitable in the face of increasing competition from road hauliers and the private car. The Beeching Axe fell on most branch lines and some main lines. Some of these lines have since become heritage railways.

The early 1960s also saw the "Great Locomotive Cull", with mass withdrawals of steam types, and their replacement with diesels, fewer of which were needed on the shrinking system. Steam traction's last stand came in the North-West of England in August 1968. The use of steam locomotives on independent industrial lines, particularly by the National Coal Board (NCB), continued into the 1970s. Many locomotives were preserved, having not been scrapped immediately on withdrawal, but most fell victim to the cutter's torch.

From 1958 to 1974 the West Coast Main Line was electrified in stages at the French voltage of 25 kV 50Hz AC overhead line electrification. Many commuter lines around London and Glasgow were also electrified, and the Southern Region extended its 750 V DC third rail system to the Kent coast. However electrification never reached system-wide level as on many other European railways.

British Rail


Class 47 47241 in "corporate blue" livery in 1980 (GNU Free Documentation)

Steam traction on British Railways ended in August 1968 after the system was rebranded British Rail (see British Rail brand names for a full history). This introduced the double-arrow logo, still used by National Rail to represent the industry as a whole (though some cynics claimed the logo meant the railway "didn't know if it was coming or going"); the standardised typeface used for all communications and signs; and the "rail blue" livery which was applied to nearly all locomotives and rolling stock.

In 1973 the TOPS system for classifying locomotives and multiple units was introduced, and is the basis of the classification system. Hauled rolling stock continued to carry numbers in a separate series. Also during this time, yellow warning panels, characteristic of British railways, were added to the front of diesel and electric locomotives and multiple units in order to increase the safety of track workers.

The major engineering works were split off into a separate company, British Rail Engineering Limited (BREL), in 1970.

Sectorisation


BR Class 411, no. 1586, at London Victoria (GNU Free Documentation)

Sectorisation produced a more colourful railway — this is the Network SouthEast livery. It is a Mk1 electric multiple unit.


BR class 87 electric loco & trains (Virgin Trains) (GNU Free Dcoumentation)

Old trains, new livery -- Virgin Trains took over two InterCity franchises.

In the 1980s the regions of BR were abolished and the system sectorised into five sectors. The passenger sectors were InterCity (express services), Network SouthEast (London commuter services) and Regional Railways (regional services). Trainload Freight took trainload freight, Railfreight Distribution took non-trainload freight, Freightliner took intermodal traffic and Rail Express Systems took parcels traffic. The maintenance and remaining engineering works were split off into a new company, BRML (British Rail Maintenance Limited). The new sectors were further subdivided into divisions. This ended the "BR blue" period as new liveries were adopted gradually. Infrastructure remained the responsibility of the Regions until the "Organisation for Quality" initiative in 1991, when this too was transferred to the sectors.

Privatisation

Main article: Privatisation of British Rail

On the advice of the Adam Smith Institute, under John Major's Conservative Government's Railways Act 1993 British Rail was split up and privatised. This was a continuation of the policy of Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government's privatisation of publicly-owned services. The unpopular Conservative Government was facing a Labour victory at the May 1997 General Election and so privatisation was rushed through and was finished in November 1997.

BR was privatised within the business structure that was in place. Passenger services in each sector were franchised out to private companies, mostly bus operators. The Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) was created to organise ticketing and market the rail services using the National Rail brand. Freight operations were sold but mostly bought by one company, EWS. Railtrack controlled infrastructure. The Shadow Strategic Rail Authority was created to oversee and advise the government. The British Railways Board remained with some residual functions.

Privatisation has had mixed results. Passenger growth has been stimulated, but this has been at extra cost to the taxpayer and passengers, who have seen steady fare increases since 1997. Freight has also increased; however, there is debate as to whether these increases in passengers and freight have been due to privatisation, or simply to an improved economy which usually results in more travel. Some analysts have pointed out that a similar rise in passenger numbers occurred in the late 1980s when the economy was buoyant, only to fall again in the recession of the early 1990s; however, recent passenger-journey numbers have climbed back to the level last seen in the 1950s.

Railtrack's management proved to be incompetent and the Labour government refused to continue to subsidise the losses of shareholders. It went insolvent, was put in receivership and was replaced by a not-for-profit publicly owned Network Rail. Some saw this as the first step towards renationalisation. Given the costs this is unlikely at present although some studies have recommended this as a cheaper choice than the current subsidies to commercial companies. The Shadow Strategic Rail Authority's power became real when it dropped part of its name, becoming the Strategic Rail Authority (SRA). The functions of the SRA were later transferred to the Department for Transport.

There has been some controversy over the decision to withhold subsidies from Railtrack, which forced it to become insolvent. Recent press reports have indicated that the then transport minister Stephen Byers deliberately forced the company to become insolvent, as this would remove any obligation on the government to provide compensation to Railtrack's shareholders, who would lose their investment.

Network

The BR network, with the trunk routes of the West Coast Main Line, East Coast Main Line, Great Western Main Line and Midland Main Line, remains unchanged. The Beeching Axe fell on many branch lines and some other main lines.

Locomotives and rolling stock

Locomotives

Steam locomotives

Main article: Steam locomotives of British Railways

BR inherited more than 20,000 locomotives from the constituent "Big Four" companies, the vast majority of which were steam locomotives. BR also built 2537 steam locomotives in the period 1948-1960: 1538 were to pre-nationalisation designs, and 999 to its own standard designs. These locomotives were destined to lead short lives, some as little as 5 years against a design life of over 30 years, because of the decision to end the use of steam traction in 1968.

Diesel locomotives

Main article: Diesel locomotives of British Rail

When BR was created, diesel traction was in its infancy in the United Kingdom (though more progress had been made in other countries, whose experience could arguably have been used to a greater degree in informing developments in the UK). Only one mainline diesel locomotive was inherited in 1948 (though more were on order) and a handful of diesel shunters of various types.

Initially, BR persisted with the small scale experimentation with diesel traction while continuing to build hundreds of steam locomotives to old and new designs. Even some steam shunters were being built through to the mid-1950s, when standard diesel shunters were already in large scale production. However, it was not until the 1955 Modernisation Plan that more substantial developments in mainline diesel locomotive technology were planned.

The Plan envisaged small numbers of prototype locomotives of varying power types being ordered from a variety of manufacturers. These could be tested and compared against each other before large scale orders were placed. Unfortunately, even before many of the prototypes had been delivered, a combination of the political need to maintain employment in the British locomotive-building industry and over-optimistic assessments of the possibilities offered by new diesel locomotives meant that large scale orders were placed for a wide variety of untested and incompatible designs, many of which proved to be very poor.

By the end of 1968, all the remaining mainline steam locomotives and shunters had been withdrawn - but during the period 1967-71 so were a large number of virtually new diesel locomotives and shunters (some only three years old) as many designs had proved unsuccessful, non-standard, and unnecessary with changed requirements on the railways, e.g. widespread line closures and the decline of wagonload freight traffic. However, some of the diesel shunters withdrawn during this period did find further use on industrial railway systems.

After the large scale production of some 5000 diesel locomotives and shunters in the period 1956-1968, the British locomotive-building industry virtually collapsed. BR needed very few new diesel locomotives from then on; only 285 heavy duty freight locomotives and the 199 High Speed Train power cars were purchased from then until privatisation began in 1994. No diesel locomotives have been built in Britain for the mainline system since 1991; the most recent new types have been imported from Canada and Spain.

Electric locomotives

Main article: Electric locomotives of British Rail

Electric traction was more advanced than diesel traction at Nationalisation, with a number of isolated electrified networks across the country using a variety of power supplies, though 1500V dc overhead supply had been accepted as the national standard in the 1930s. However, most of these networks used electric multiple units to provide the passenger service, with steam locomotives operating freight trains. Thus, BR inherited only 13 ex-North Eastern and 3 ex-Southern Railway electric locomotives, plus two departmental electric shunters, also ex-Southern Railway.

In the early years of BR, a number of locomtives were built to operate on the newly-refurbished and electrified Woodhead Route using the 1500V dc overhead system. However, by the time that the next major electrification project, the West Coast Main Line (WCML), was underway, the decision had been taken to adopt 25kV ac overhead as the standard supply system.

BR decided to test a variety of new 25kV ac types for the WCML electrification; in all 100 locomotives of five classes were built by different manufacturers. Having learned the lessons from these types, a standard class of a further 100 examples was ordered. This latter type, which was introduced in 1966 is still in service today. The earlier prototypes, though they were mostly pretty successful, succumbed in the 1980s and early 1990s as non-standard following the arrival of new electric locomotives.

Although the purchase of new electric types was carried out in a more successful way than the comparable process for diesel locomotives (see above), the 200-or-so electric locomotive fleet used to operate the WCML from the mid-1960s until the recent introduction of Pendolino trains was still far smaller than that originally envisaged; more than 500 were thought necessary when the initial plans were developed! It was fortunate that changes in the railway's operation had already occurred before mass orders were placed for electric traction.

Coaches

Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail for additional information on:

• British Carriage and Wagon Numbering and Classification
• Coaches of the London, Midland and Scottish Railway
• Coaches of the Great Western Railway
• Coaches of the Southern Railway
• Coaches of the London and North Eastern Railway
• British Rail Mark 1
• British Rail Mark 2
• British Rail Mark 3
• British Rail Mark 4


Freight wagons and industrial tankers.

Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail for additional informatmion on:

• Coal trucks.
• Parcels vans and mail wagons.
• Industrial and oil tankers.
• Flat-cars and car-transporters.
• Gravel hoppers.

Multiple units

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b222/siberianmo/Euro%20trains/British%20trains/c3e61dee.jpg
BR Class 142 Pacer at Manchester Victoria station. (Public Domain)

The Pacer was British Rail's attempt to create a low cost Diesel Multiple Unit

Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail for additional informatmion on:

• Multiple units.
• Diesel and electric multiple units.
• Pacer units.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]



Waving flag credits to: www.3Dflags.com

[siberianmo]

For Pike Perspective's Day! . . . and steam fans too!


G’day!

Here’s something for the Steam Locomotive fans in our group:
The North American Steam Locomotive Wheel Arrangements
first Posted on page 153

Type ………. Wheel diagram ………. Name(s)

0-2-2 ……… Oo
0-4-0 ……… Oo ………………….. 4-coupled
0-4-2 ……… OOo
0-4-4 ……… OOoo ……………….. Forney 4-coupled
0-4-6 ……… OOooo ……………… Forney 4-coupled
0-6-0 ……… OOO ……………….. 6-coupled
0-6-2 ……… OOOo ………………. Baldwin, Uintah
0-6-4 ……… OOOoo ……………... Forney 6-coupled
0-6-6 ……… OOOooo ……………. Forney 6-coupled
0-8-0 ……… OOOO ………………. 8-coupled
0-8-2 ……… OOOOo
0-10-0 ……. OOOOO ……………..10-coupled
0-10-2 ……. OOOOOo …………… Union

2-2-0 ……… oO .………………….. Planet
2-2-2 ……… oOo. ………………… Single
2-4-0 ……… oOO. …………………Porter
2-4-2 ……… oOOo ……………….. Columbia
2-6-0 ……… oOOO ………………. Mogul
2-6-2 ……… oOOOo ................... Prairie
2-8-0 ……… oOOO ………………. Consolidation
2-8-2 ……… oOOOOo …………… Mikado
2-8-4 ……… oOOOOoo ………….. Berkshire, Kanawha
2-10-0 …….. oOOOOO ................ Decapod
2-10-2 …….. oOOOOOo …………. Santa Fe
2-10-4 …….. oOOOOOoo ………... Texas

4-2-0 ……… ooO ………………… Six-wheeler
4-2-2 ……… ooOo ……………….. Bicycle
4-2-4 ……… ooOoo
4-4-0 ……… ooOO ………………. American
4-4-2 ……… ooOOo ……………... Atlantic
4-4-4 ……… ooOOoo ……………. Reading
4-6-0 ……… ooOOO …………….. Ten-wheeler
4-6-2 ……… ooOOOoo ………….. Pacific
4-6-4 ……… ooOOOoo ………….. Baltic, Hudson
4-8-0 ……… ooOOOO .………….. Mastodon
4-8-2 ……… ooOOOOo …………. Mountain
4-8-4 ……… ooOOOOoo .……….. Northern
4-10-0 …….. ooOOOOO ………… Decapod
4-10-2 …….. ooOOOOOo ……….. Overland, Southern Pacific
4-12-2 …….. ooOOOOOOo .…….. Union Pacific

Articulated Locomotives

0-2-2-0 …… OO …………………. Mt. Washington Cog Railroad
0-4-4-0 …… OO OO
0-6-6-0 …… OOO OOO ………… Mallet
0-8-8-0 …… OOOO OOOO …….. Angus

2-6-6-0 …… oOOO OOO
2-6-6-4 …… oOOO OOOoo
2-6-6-6 …… oOOO OOOooo …….. Allegheny
2-8-8-0 …… oOOOO OOOO …….. Bull Moose
2-8-8-2 …… oOOOO OOOOo …… Chesapeake
2-10-10-2 … oOOOOO OOOOOo

4-4-6-2 …… ooOO OOOoo
4-6-6-4 …… ooOOO OOOoo ………….. Challenger
4-8-8-4 …… ooOOOO OOOOoo ……… Big Boy
2-8-8-8-2 … oOOOO OOOO OOOOo … Triplex
2-8-8-8-4 … oOOOO OOOO OOOOoo .. Triplex

Note: Forum format differences make for “skewed” columns.

Check out this URL for more: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/wheels.shtml


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

For Pike Perspective's Day! . . . and steam fans too!

[LoveDomes]

Greetings Tom and whoever may be in the back room!

We're into a major melt here on the Island. Much of the mess is messier! However, things are getting to somewhat of a normal chaotic stage.[swg] Actually not all that bad - temperatures hitting 50 degrees and it is supposed to remain this way for a couple of days, with rain on the way. Ugh. Well, the kids enjoyed it all. Don't know if you are aware of this - but the schools - at least most of 'em - stayed opened throughout the week. No Candy A's around here![swg][yeah]

So, what "eye candy" have you provided us today, Captain of the Bar[?] A rather extensive and informative piece on Brit Rail. My guess is this is a "feast" for Pete & Nick and their comments should be interesting.

Really surprised at some things lately - but given reported "problems" with the Forums, perhaps the low attendance here can in some way be tied to that. I have my doubts. No problems here connecting and remaining on board. Anyway, too blankety-blank bad that the crowd has thinned so much. Would've been nice to get some "real time" input from some of the "missing" guys. By the time they read the pages - if they read the pages - it will be kinda like spilled milk. Even the cat has problems with it after a few days![swg]

You get another four-[tup] Salute for yet another fine effort with the "Euro Railways #1" [tup][tup][tup]. Hey Rob you mean to say you didn't even see what Tom did just for you on the previous page[to your post?] Man, you NEED to get a new machine and do it now![swg] Maybe we should empty that Lars box and send him the dough.[^]

barndad Doug You need to keep your day job! The jokes are - well - not all that bad! Enoying your series, but like Tom I have to wait 'til I am sufficiently waked to read 'em.[swg] Good job!][tup][tup]

Sorry, but I haven't a thing for the Pike Perspectives theme and probably will not until I get off my duff and resume my interest in model trains. I have the room - the stuff and the means to put together a couple of pikes (previously discusssed), just a mattter of doing it I suppose.[%-)]

That reference to Frank Ellison by CM3 (is that really a name[?][?]) also brought back some memories from a far distant past. I'm not into reading the MRR mags anymore, but surely did when at sea. Somewhere in the basement are boxes upon boxes of 'em. Should probably get going with those too. Did I read somewhere that you put decades worth in binders[?] Not a bad thought - either that or find someone who may have 'em all on discs! Now there's a thought.

Sounds like your Rendezvous plans are fillling in quite nicely. If it wasn't for a planned trip during the same timeframe, I'd probably wind up in Toronto too. Piece of cake from here - just jump aboard Amtrak. Then again, maybe not so quick![swg] Maybe fly up and rail back would do it. Wouldn't want to arrive late. But that's all wishful thinking - I'm heading to the left coast, as mentione sometime earlier.

Your steam loco wheel arrangement 'chart' really is quite interesting - and of course, so is the URL. I spent a considerable amount of time checking out both. [tup][tup]

Given that there is no RR "theme" for this day, I presume we are taking somewhat of a break from that, huh[?] Maybe our Brit friends will "load us up" with something to supplement your post.[yeah]

Wife is beckoning - so it's time for me to move out of the den and into the fray![swg] I think we're going to fire up the four-wheeler (aka: car) and get some shopping done. Oh that ought to be really a lot of fun . . . .NOT!

Here's a ten spot for a round, whenever you have sufficient numbers at the bar to justitfy it! I'll take a "quickie" - just a hit of JD should do it.

Until the next time!

Lars

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Here at the Feast or Famine Bar 'n Grill one never knows just who or how many will come through those front doors! But, one thing is certain, we appreciate the patronage![swg] Keeps the sound we love best ringin' in our ears - Ka-ching, Ka-ching.<grin>

So, thus far nary a word from our Brit friends - saw Pete lurking in the shadows a couple of hours ago - hope he's not experiencing the trolleyboy syndrome with the Forums.[tdn]

Good to see Rob's Post and appreciate the effort to make it as inclusive as possible, given the circumstances. By the by, I received several of your Emails and responded to all of 'em. Hope you are getting those!

Thanx for the "Dubloons" - don't even want to know where they originated! However, we'll turn 'em into ready cash for Herr Wurtlitzer!

Lars Thanx for the dependability and being the only one sticking to a timeframe![tup][tup][tup]

I have been trying to get the guys to understand this "principle" for months and thought it was working until West Coast S Dave and a couple of other guys had significant events take place in their lives changing the frequency of participation. Anyway, it helps to know that you'll be around in the mid-afternoon - kinda frees me up to do other things.

Thanx for the round![tup]

Been seeing some "browsers" from the "CS" over here, but as has been the practice, they don't grace us with their presence. I "know them," but for whatever the reason they apparently aren't interested in particpating - but they ARE checking us out.[swg] Ya know, this Thread was never established to run in competition with any other. It was intended to be a stand-alone site for the type of "stuff" we enjoy as adults. It seems to be working well and here we are approaching the 11th month of existence on the Forums. Not bad, not bad at all![tup]

Received an Email from BK and he's back in the States and should be heading up to Alberta and his "intended" by the weekend. Said to buy ya all a drink - so Boris ring it! Drinks on BK!! We most probably will be seeing him next week.[yeah] Remember, this will be his first return to the bar since his "induction" into the Order of the Stools! - so let's give him a rousing [#welcome] Back!!

I'm not sure that I'll be Positng anything else tonight - so, let's keep in mind that:

Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM!

Catch y'all later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

Enjoyed the British Rail theme for the day. And those pictures from the other day makes you kind of wonder why we are unable to have train service like that in this country.

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

Hey Al . . .

Absolutely on the mark! It's all a matter of priorities, isn't it[?] After all, here in the U.S.A. and Canada, we seem to place the independence of being behind the wheel of our cars way over efficient mass transportation. Then there is our Congress which could have - but didn't - appropriate sufficient funding over the past several decades to ensure that we didn't lose our "edge" with regard to the upgraded infrastructure and equipment required for a first rate passenger rail system. Man, I'm on a roll.[swg]

Thanx for the comments![tup]

Thanx for the round and catch ya later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom And All.

A pint of Bathams and a round please.

Another good day at the bar after a great Santa Fe Day[tup][tup].

AL Thanks for the details on the Kansas Cityan and the Chicagoan. Really enjoyed the post on the Baggage and Post Office Cars. I now know what Head End cars are. In the U.K. the Parcel cars etc were known as NPCCS( non-passenger carring coaching stock).
I believe that the railways there no longer carry parcels another traffic ,like newspapers, they have lost [V].

ROB Good to hear from you I hope you can solve the computer problem quickly, missing your posts.

CM3 Look after the models. The wife was watching BBC America recently when on the programme they gather antiques etc from someones home and sell them at auction. On the programme we were watching there were 4 model engines from the early 60s, unfortunately they didn,t show them in close up but two were diesel locos they fetched over 400 Pounds. about 700 Dollars I quess.

DOUG Thanks for the Lingo part 2 another well written and informative article. Keep the jokes coming [(-D][tup]. Slightly[#offtopic] but do you know how long the term Lingo as been in use over here.[?].

Great post LARS glad things are getting back to normal up there. My mate from England says the system you had is heading that way, hopefully it will calm down over the pond. Your right TOM's post on B.R. IS a feast. It brought out very mixed feelings on what has happen to the British Rail system.

TOM Many thanks for the informative and though prevoking post on B.R.

The railways were in a very bad state after WW11 after performing brilliently in very hard circumstances. If the companies had been paid the true rate for its services they could probably have remained as they were.
As to diesels, after the war I believe that the country was in dire straights financally and the thought of having to buy oil when there was plenty of coal was not acceptable at the time. As the post said the idea of the pilot plan for the diesels was sound but to order large numbers of un-tried designs was rediculous. Luckily for B.R.,Sulzer, Brush and English Electric were very good products. if they had been as bad as some of the others, I fear what would have happened.

As to the elimination of steam it was originally planned that steam would be around until the early seventies. In my opinion they should have done the main line electrification and kept steam while they did it, instead of the indecent haste shown at the end of steam,some locos were barely 5 years old when they were scrapped but I suppose it was only taxpayers money after all.[:(!].

I must mention though the Diesel Multiple Units introduced in the mid 50s they were a great success and no doubt saved some branch lines.

As to Beeching no doubt some reduction of the network was needed but what would be given today for some of the lines like in the West Country and elsewhere that were closed. Today there is still talk of a new railway on the route of the Great Central, closed in 1966, although the cost would be horrendous.Although to be fair to him ,not that I want too, he is credited with the introduction of the Merry-Go Round system of getting coal from the mines to the power stations and the introduction of the frieght-liner containers on BR. As to his appointment, look at the interests of the Minister Of Transport who appointed him.

The regions formed is interesting. in the late 50s some of the region's borders were changed. often when this old rivalries surfaced. Take the Great Central it was owned by the LNER and became part of the Eastern Region of BR, in the change it became part of the London Midland and not long afterward the the expresses were withdrawn and the line suffered. it had been a rival to the Midland companies since it had been built in 1899. Also the London Midland locos supplied to the line were often the ones discarded by other depots and it took great efforts on the part of the GC sheds to run a decent service.

I guess every cloud has a silver lining with the ru***o get rid of steam the railway works could not keep up with the scrapping of locos and they were sold to private firms.
The photo of the tank locos looks to be in Dai Woodhams scrap yard. He did not cut the locos up at once and luckily over 200 engines survived long enough to have been saved from his yard.

The photo of the 87electric loco was taken ,unless I am very much mistaken,at a place called "Cathiron" about 3 miles from where I used to live. A wonderful place to watch trains at speed. I have seen the last days of only steam hauled trains, through the various diesels and AC electric locos to the Pendelinos there.It is still a great place to watch trains in the countryside.with the Oxford canal naer the line.
Well TOM thanks again for the post If any one has a question I will try my best to answer it. PETE.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

I'm still hangin' around until Leon takes over at 9 PM . . .

Redemption! A Post from Pete!!! Was hoping to get a comment or two and I hit the "jack pot!" Thanx for the great insights to the British Rail situation. Obviously "things" none of us would ever know unless and until someone such as yourself would reveal.[tup][tup][tup]

Really liked those heralds and logo - "cool" stuff, eh[?]

At lest you still have a first class operating rail system in Merry Olde, hardly can say the same for the U.S.A. [tdn] A shame - a pity and a downright crime, in my not-so-humble opinion. Just think about the men who toiled at making those passenger railroads in this great land. Think about the companies - the investments - the supporting industries - all of it. Mostly gone - evaporated - zap! So what's left[?] Hardly a shadow of what used to be and it ain't gonna EVER go back. I only can wish we had what England still has in terms of passenger rail transportation.

But one nice thing about this cyber bar 'n grill of ours, is we can bring it all back with pretty much the "stroke of a key!" The narratives - the pix - the maps - the stats, everything accept the experience, and that's in the mind's eye![tup]

Thanx for the round, Pete - but you have several Bathams comin' your way from the guys who picked up the tab prior to your arrival![swg] Drink up!!

Catch y'all in the AM![tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Good evening Tom and friends! I'll take a bottomless draught, and here's some Michigan quarters that I've been holding out. No dinner, please. I'll just drink! [:o)]

Nice streamliner on the Chicagoan Al. Where do you get all your info? Here's a secret as to where I look for mine these days .... see all the professional rail club logos below?

I've been looking up the individual organizations to see if they had monthly publications, and then find them on e-bay to share with ya'll should they prove to be interesting.

Enjoyed reading about your layout inspirations CM3. I find Tom's layout to be as good as I've seen anywhere. Speaking of whom ...the British Railway post blew me away in both content and quality! (Nice steam wheel chart too.) Then Pete added some info of his own, which was a real nice touch. And no ...I have no idea how long "lingo" has been used as a word, or it's origin. Pray tell?

Rob, I would love to join ya'll at the reunion in May, but I'm not allowed to go. I'm being punished for commiting to build a house this year. I'll send you the first part of the lingo post you're having trouble loading if you send me your e-mail address. Have a good night!

[:I] An old man lying on his deathbed summond his doctor, lawyer and his priest. He handed each of them an envelope containing $30,000. "Gentlemen, they say you can't take it with you but I am going to try. When they lower my casket into the ground I want each of you to toss in the envelope I gave you. After the funeral the doctor confessed to the other two "We needed money to build a new clinic, so I kept $20,000 and only threw in $10,000." The Priest also confessed "We needed renovations at the the church so I kept $10,000 and only threw in $20,000." The lawyer shook his head in disgust. "Gentlemen I am ashamed of you...I threw in a check for the full amount" [:I]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon put the shotgun now you know it's me <sheesh> you would think that i haven't been around much lately, at least I got a welcome back nip from Tex and a rather sloppy kis from Boris ( Nick get back here soon )

Tom Great Brit rail piece, it's interesting to read how they put it back togehter after the war, and have made a decent passenger rail network out of it. To think that neither the US nor Canda were bombed back into the stone age and we could not build as proper a passenger rail system as the UK and the rest of Europe for that fact Oh well. Sorry my rants done. Boris ring a round for everyone for me please.

Tom I did get all your emails and have already responded in return. At that end I'm still reasonably connected. BTW thanks for all the confirmations guys,it's good to know that my emails are at least getting through. I may resort to poney express for posts however.

Nice list of all the steam locomotuives in NA's combined roundhouses,all the common and the uncommon a great list. One wnders how many more wheel arrangements are out there that didn't make that list.Perhaps Pete or Nick could give us a similar list of British wheel arragmements and names.

Lars I doid finally catch some of what Tom posted yesterday, I was going to re-run a piece on the CNR's prehistory to support his CnoR bit but alas i was summarlty kicked off the forum by it's internal server. I put a call into a comp tech i know and he gave my sysytem a clean bill of health, mind you he told me that his doorstop was more powerfullb but that's another story. We would love to have you in toronto well next year I'm sure tyou will be in for. Who knows we may pick your backyard.

Doug I will likely take you up on your offer on the emailing of that article if it's like part two it's certainly a keeper.happy housebuilding BTW LOL. I think that you will find that most of the historical societies have decent articles and periodicals available, I get allot of my info from the museum's archieves.


Pete I hazzard a guess that the term Lingo has been used for a good few decades over hear, if I were to guess it started at or near the end of the first world war. It's a term my greatgrandfather would use ( I was 6 when he passed away ) and he was a WW1 CDN vet.
Rob

[trolleyboy]

well good evening again Leon hope you are in a better mood than the last time. Just a small CR ( 4 fingers ) tonight for me. I figured that with the rendezvous fast approaching that I would run a few bits on the TTC. as some here know the TTC has only existed as such since 1921,it was made up of 5 separate lines ( all with their own fare systems and not transferable between each other ) all serving the city of Toronto. So the next couple of days I'll try to splain some of the nuances.

CLASSIC JUICE # 21 THE PRE HISTORY OF THE TTC PART 1

Toronto Street Railway Company

This company was incorporated in march of 1861,with Alexander Easton becoming it's president. the company was given a thity year franchise from the city of Toronto, to provide horsecar service on Yonge street, Quenn and King streets. Cars were not to exceed 6 miles an hour,and would work sixteen hours during the summer months and fourteen hours during the winter.There was to be no less than 30 min headway between cars, and the fares were to be set at 5 cents.

The company proceeded with these operations until 1869 when they ran into financial distress ( missed bond payments ). Trustee William Casey was appointed to right the ship. In 1873 William and George Kiely took over the assets of the company, and were granted a new act of incorporation to continue the companies obligations to the franchise.The company remained under Kiely control until 1891 when the franchise expired and the city assumed control.

Tornto Railway Company

The city of Toronto continued to operate the street railways until sept of 1891 when the group under William McKenzie ( of McKenzie and Mann intrests ) bouhgt the operation from the city, and began operations on a new 30 year franchise. The New company was now known as the Toronto Railway Company ( TRC ), and would become the largest operator of street railway lines in toronto until the comming of the TTC in 1921.

During the days of the TRC, electrification of the entire system occured and the horse cars were withdrawn.Extenions top the system were made, and the introdustion of open cars in the summer and closed cars in the winter began. Stoves were also installed in these new electric cars ( closed )new double truck and single truck designs ( TR Cars ) were constructed. Double truck cars were mostly rebuilt with airbrakes starting in 1905. ( ahnd brakes were banned in 1917 on passenger cars ).

In 1915, open cars were banned by the Railway Municiple board, and all cars were henceforth required to be the closed type with doors at front and rear. Lifeguards were added to car fronts providing new safety features.There had been many complaints that pedestrians would be maimed or killed if they fell in front of moving cars accidentally if these features were not insatlled. ( Consider the garb of women at the time and the rutted unpaved for the most part roads of this period )

Another improvement which the TRC completed during it's franchise was the replacement of the horse car tracks with heavier girder rail which could more easily support the newer heavier cars. Sunday service was approved by council vote in 1897 making it easier for the public to access beaches and other lesure activities. Even the horse cars were brought back as trailers for the new TR cars to handle the heavier peek traffic times during the week.

progress came to a halt in 1910, when the TRC refused the cities request to expand beyond their original franchise bounderies, as set out in 1891. This decision was upheld by the courts and as a result the cities expansion into the newly annexed areas was hampered. The TRC would uphld this desision until the end of it's franchise on August 31 , 1921. The TRC as a compnay existed on paper until 1930.

Part 1

Rob