"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

Good Mornin!

OPEN BAR TODAY – COMPLIMENTS of BudKarr BK in commemoration of his “induction” into the Order of the Stools!


Another entertaining Sunday Photo Posting Day! the Pix kept flowing from morn ‘til late nite. As mentioned the SUMMARY, THANX to all who participated![tup][tup][tup]


Super Bowl Sunday was also entertaining. Perhaps not the best of ‘em all, but rather even as I saw it. Thought the Seahawks got robbed on a call in the end zone negating a touchdown. [yeah] I know the rules, but what a “chicken” call on something that could have been easily overlooked. Booooooo hissssssssss. I had “picked” the Steelers some time ago on these pages, and wasn’t surprised they won. Not my teams, not my cities, not my states – but football, American style, is fun to watch – boy millionaires tra***alking, gesturing, posturing, and oh [yeah] playing the game![swg]

Check out this URL on the “Stones” half-time performance at the Super Bowl
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/05/super.entertainment.ap/index.html


Really appreciate BudKarr BK checking in with us from Oslo, Norway! Now that’s something else, eh[?] I did an advanced search on his Posts since he first visited with us on September 16th, 2005, and he has come a long way in earning that Reserved Stool. Here’s a guy who acknowledges that he is not a railroad fan nor a hobbyist, but simply enjoys the atmosphere at ”Our” Place! Now that’s surely worthy of a Reserved Stool - congrats, again and hope to see you perched on it real soon.[swg] Many THANX for the open bar today, too![tup][tup][tup]


I see Theodorebear Ted has checked in with his Monday offering. Always good to have you stop by.[tup]

Wish we had neighbors as willing and available for help as you seem to be. There are times when I firmly believe that if something were to happen to us, it would take weeks before anyone noticed. A vast difference between neighborhoods and subdivisions – another Sociological study of my past.[swg]


Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


Stick around a few minutes AFTER POSTING - The information you MISS may be for YOU!

Those who acknowledge the other guy, get acknowledged!

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a Coffee and a crumpet from the Mentor Bakery.

Congradulations to our newest member of the Permanent Order of Stools. Being inducted at an earlier date it is a good idea to bring lots of paper.

Tom don't know how much longer will be able to partake of our forum as the hours at the office are beginning to take a toll. Once tax season is over will be able to surface once again the hours are getting pretty intense.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER # 55

RED RIVER GN Trains 11-12 June 25, 1950 Grand Forks – St. Paul round trip daily 323 miles each way 643 miles round trip daily 7 hours 29 minutes each way

The Great Northern Railways third new train set of 1950 was a new schedule named the RED RIVER. The five car lightweight streamliner built by American Car & Foundry began service June 25, 1950 operating a round trip daily between Grand Forks, North Dakota and St. Paul, Minnesota daily. The new RED RIVER operated southbound in the morning returning in the late afternoon and evening. The cars for the RED RIVER were quite different than those built for the earlier INTERNATIONALS as they were constructed with extra insulation and the coaches had Baker heaters installed as their was no steam heat available at Grand Forks depot where the cars would have to stand in the open all night. The power was uncoupled and sent to the roundhouse for any running repairs and servicing before the next morning’s trip. The solution to the car heat problem was having the factory install the Baker heaters when they were built, these heaters were not used when the train was under way as steam was supplied by the EMD E7A units train heat boiler.


512 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1107 Baggage 30’Railway Post Office Car

1137 60- Revenue Seat Coach

1138 60- Revenue Seat Coach

1139 60- Revenue Seat Coach

1147 RED RIVER 12- Seat Dinette 9- Seat Lunch Counter Kitchen 16- Revenue Seat Parlor Observation

In 1960 the RED RIVER became a daily Fargo – St. Paul round trip daily.

In 1970 the former RED RIVER was discontinued.

Congradulations to the Pittsburg Steelers on their Super Bowl victory.

For the Seahawks you gave it your best and I'm sure you'll be back.

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Hey Al Do what you can, when you can! If you are busy at work, and that pays the bills, how can anyone complain[?][swg]

Your Permanent Stool will just have a sign on it - "Out of Service" until you can make it back!<grin>

I'm not so sure about either team returning to the Super Bowl, given how hard it really is to repeat. Neither team measures up to any that have repeated Conference Championships that I can recall. Just one of those years .... but yes, Congratulations to the Steelers!

Thanx for the Streamlilner a short one, at that![tup][tup]

Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #67

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Southern Pacific (SP) from a 1948 advertisement in my personal collection.



On your S.P trip to California

See twice as much for the same rail fare

Go one way – return another

Here’s an exciting travel bargain for your California trip: South Pacific offers you four routes. Choose one S.P. route to California, a different S.P. route returning, and you’ll see twice as much for the same roundtrip rail fare from most points! You’ll ride on some of these famous trains:

Our Sunset Limited and Argonaut, via romantic New Orleans to Los Angeles across the great Southwest (Sunset Route). Our new Golden State, 45-hour extra fast, extra fare streamliner, and our Imperial, Chicago to Los Angeles (Golden State Route). Our sleek 50 ¾ hour extra fare streamliner City of San Francisco, and our Overland, Chicago to San Francisco via spectacular Salt Lake and Reno (Overland Route). And our Cascade and Beaver through the evergreen Northwest (Shasta Route).

And on your 470 mile scenic trip between Los Angeles and San Francisco you have our exciting streamlined Daylights and our famous all-Pullman streamlined Lark that the movie stars ride. Send for the guidebook to plan with.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . S*P . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . The friendly Southern Pacific . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

[LoveDomes]

Hi Tom

Doesn't appear that this Monday has brought out any of the regulars, and pardon me if I sound a bit rude - if there are any such "animals" left. Yeah, yeah - I know, people are working and so on. Just puzzles me that for such a long time these pages seemed to be filled each and every day - now if you don't put info out, it just doesn't happen. I think I'm beginning to sound like you![swg]

Great photo weekend and the guys did well, don't you agree?[tup] all around!

I see it's OPEN BAR - so how about a cold one - make it Knickerbocker in a bottle, please. I'll take a hoagie - ham, swiss, butter, mustard, two pickles and some olives too!

Just visited your other thread and it's about as chilly over there as here. With so much crap and nonsense being put out elsewhere, I'd think there would be more than a few who appreciate the good stuff found wherever you are providing info. Perhaps it's time to seek out another forum. Interested? I did that and found several if you are interested. Only thing is, I scaled my time back considerably. Kind of echoed what's going on here - seemed that the more I put out, the less I received. Strange indeed.

Looking forward to your NYC RRs from Yesteryear and I resisted the urge to "cheat" while browsing on Wikipedia![swg] That is a terrific source for info - all kinds.

Wanted to comment on barndad Doug's efforts, especially on Sundays. Great job and very informative narratives that provide everything one needs to keep on top of the story. Much appreciated[tup]

Also, trolleyboy Rob you seem to spend quite a bit of time with the streetcar stuff and I noticed you also have a thread for it as well. May I inquire, where did you get the keen interest in this particular aspect of railroading? Just curious.

In browsing through that listing of your Order of the Stools, I took the liberty of making some comparisons with similar listings several months ago. Sure have been some changes along the way - with perhaps more to come. That's just the nature of this kind of thing - don't let it get you down. Okay? You are the guy who said you "play the hand yuor dealt" - or something like that. Me too.

When it comes to the western RRs of the U.S. I just love those Santa Fe War Bonnet paint jobs of the 50s. The SP had a nice color scheme (a couple at least) that looked really cool on the passenger consists. Those were great times for RR watching and traveling as everything appeared to be new and kept in good repair - or so it seemed. Didn't take long for the wheels to come off the wagon, did it? The demise really was amazing. Reminds me very much of the way the U.S. shipping industry pretty much sank to the bottom of the sea. One day it was flourishing, the next, pretty much gone. Hey, just look at the airlines - they too are following a similar sad path to oblivion. Wonder if we'll see the day when foreign carriers will provide domestic service here? Awful thought.

Okay, enough of my rambling and wondering. Another brew if you please and I'll just sit back and enjoy the ambiance of this great saloon. Might even rack up the balls for a game or two.

Almost forgot - really dig that photo at the top of your SUMMARY, great shot - as they all are. I see you are changing them on a weekly basis. Good idea. Also liked those movie posters for the flicks at the Emporium - another good approach![tup] Leave it to you to tie up the loose ends ... good sailor that you are![swg]


Until the next time!

Lars

[Trainnut484]

Hello Tom and everyone. I’ll have a cup of java for now, and put it on BK’s tab since he’s paying.

Greetings today from the ex-MoPac depot in Kirkwood, MO (via wireless connection and a laptop). My wife and I brought my Mother to St. Louis for her birthday this weekend, and now we are waiting for Amtrak #323 (The Ann Rutledge) for the trip home to KC. This has been her first trip to Saint Louie, and she had the best time of her life. We kept her busy visiting the sites including the Arch and the Transportation museum. Her favorite moment was sitting in the cab of the UP Big Boy # 4006 on display at the museum. Also, she was grinning from ear to ear while ringing the bell on the Santa Fe 2-10-4 # 5011. I could imagine her reaction if the whistle was in working order. I took pics of displays that I couldn’t before due to inaccessibility to them, and I’ll post ‘em for this Sunday’s Photo Posting day. I couldn’t post any pics yesterday because I forgot to bring the USB cable for downloading the pics from the camera to the computer.

Congrats to BK for “Reserved” status of the stools….Cheers.

Great pics from Rob, Doug, Tom, Nick, Ted, Pete, and Lars. Rob, that CN GMD1 is really an odd looking beast. Also, I’m a fan of cowls. Do you know what that slug was originally? Doug, that groundhog looked like he’s rather be doing something else than being on display. Ted, looks like your project is turning out great. Pete, great shots of those steamers.

Lars, patience is the best virtue on postings from others here ;)

Gotta go for now, the station agent here said our train is on the advertised and will be here soon.

Take care,

Russell

[Anonymous]

Good evening Tom and gents! And a special howdy to BK for all the drinks he's going to buy tonight! I'll take whatever is handy, and just keep 'em coming ...please. I think we had a great Sunday pix session yesterday. Nifty Turbo-Trains Mr. Lars! And Nick stole my idea of sharing train station pix. I need to get some shots of the new Metra Pingree Rd. and refurbished Crystal Lake stations for ya'll. Excellent pix from Rob, Tom, Pete and Ted too! Thanks for doing triple duty on your pix Mr. Tom (posting pix for others & yourself), and I never mentioned how much I enjoyed the latest edition of the Mentor Gazette! Then today we got another great article from 20-finger Al on the Red River (I need to read it later), and some Southern Pacific nostalgia from Tom. The place is really jumping!

Here's the start of another series from me having to do with the development of locomotive cabs. Hope you enjoy it!

Cabs – by George Hart, from the pages of Oct. 1943 Railroad Magazine

The John Bull and a Crampton Engine


Nerve-center of the locomotive is its cab. Whether high and flamboyant, or squat and grudging of engine-crew space, it is a focal point not only of controls and gages, but of human interest as well. For it is here that man and machine join forces. Attracted by the staccato exhausts of a train at speed, or the champing of air-pumps at a busy terminal, we instinctively lift our eyes to the cab. Its window frame the greatest single picture in all railroading – that of a gauntleted hand at the throttle.

Yet, oddly enough, very little has been written concerning engine cabs and their development throughout the years. It is a story worthy of telling, and one which has its beginnings more than 100 years ago. Consider the locomotive engineer of that day. He stood on a open deck which rocked and swayed as his iron monster sped along at the then amazing speed of fifteen or twenty miles an hour. He had to be a brave man. Brave and hardy. Besides the blistering heat of summer, the biting cold of winter, the pitiless rain and snow, this pioneer of a new industry endured the swirling smoke and sparks that the onrushing wind drove into his face.

Largely because of the hardships imposed upon engineers of that period, railroad owners refused to run trains after dark or when weather was inclement. It was deemed enough to carry passengers and freight when conditions were more favorable. Why expect the impossible? But as time went on, railroad men became aware that people wanted to travel and ship their merchandise without regard to season, darkness or storms. If the rails wouldn’t serve them, the highways and canals could. To establish itself as a public convenience the fledgling industry had to adopt regular schedules and stick to them.

As for the man who ran the engine, and his helper, some means had to be found to shelter them from extremes of sun and tempest. Thus the cab, like nearly all other inventions, was mothered by necessity. Nobody can tell us with certainty who rigged up the first awning on the deck of a locomotive, or who devised the cab itself. This improvement was such a logical addition to the engine that it probably was developed simultaneously on several different railroads. From the temporary tarpaulin shelter to the wooden (and later steel) house-like structure was a natural transition.

“What’ll they want next?” roared disgruntled brass hats when the B&O’s Grasshopper engines were fitted out with flimsy wooden shelters in the early 1840’s

Among the first engines to be constructed with an eye to the comfort of her crew was the Samuel P. Ingham. The One-Spot of the little Beaver Meadow Railroad (now a part of the Lehigh Valley system near Hazelton, Pa.,) she was of the grasshopper type, produced by the Philadelphia shops of Garrett & Eastwick in 1833. She was named for the president of the road, who had had the further distinction of serving as Secretary of the Treasury under President Andrew Jackson. Angus Sinclair in his classic Development of the Locomotive Engine states that she was “noteworthy as being the first locomotive built with a deck covered to afford protection to the engineman.”

As we have implied, this contention is open to debate. From another source we find that an engineer on the Western Railroad of Massachusetts (now Boston & Albany) erected a tarpaulin over his engine in 1841 to shield himself from the vagaries of weather in the Bershire Hills. Still a third authority credits the building of the first more or less enclosed cab to Joseph Davenport, an employee of the Boston & Providence (now New Have). Officials frowned on Davenport’s cab of 1843; said the idea was no good, because engine crews would loaf if they had such a comfortable place in which to work. “Next we’ll be giving them something to sit down on, too,” they scoffed. Anyway, the B&P thought enough of the cab to try it out, and the success of the device had been demonstrated by the fact that to this day the tendency is toward ever more convenient and roomy shelters for enginemen.

Davenport’s other contribution to the development of the cab was a unique design of combined locomotive and passenger coach, which might be considered as the fore-runner of the present-day street car. One such vehicle shuttled for years between Pittsburgh and Rochester, while another made many trips out of Jersey City, on the Erie.

Mississippi’s first and the South’s oldest existing locomotive had a canopy to shield its crew from the blistering summer sun.


There is a picture still extant of a steam coach which must have been similar to Davenport’s invention. This was a combined locomotive, passenger and baggage car called the Shakopee which ran on the old Minnesota Valley back in the 1860’s. She consisted of a balloon stack engine with a coach attached right behind the boiler. In absence of a tender, the fuel was carried in the coach. The fireman and engineer probably didn’t miss a cab greatly when they had much more space at their disposal. The Shakopee made four trips daily between Minneapolis and West St. Paul on what is now the line of the Chicago & North Western. The oddity was built by Master Mechanic W. Romans of the Columbus & Indianapolis Central (now Pennsy) at the company’s shops in Columbus. After a long career, this steam coach was pulled out of passenger service and used as a pay car. Subsequently she hauled Northern Pacific officials around on inspection trips during that road’s period of construction. The idea behind the engine-coach unit, however, was unsound.

The idea of providing cabs on engines soon found general acceptance. Mechanical departments of various roads attached shelters to their engines, while Baldwin, Rogers, Hinkley, Norris and other builders started turning out machines which had roofs affixed. One of the first railroads to go all out in providing its enginemen with cabs was the Philadelphia & Reading. Quite a few such structures were applied to engines at the Company’s Parkesburg shops. Curiously enough, some of them were later removed by the engineers themselves, who expressed fear of being trapped in accidents.

[Anonymous]

Aw.... since we're celebrating ..... here's the 2nd part of the series!

Cabs – by George Hart, from the pages of Oct. 1943 Railroad Magazine

Reading’s Dubuque had an iron cab


However, the “People’s Railroad” persisted in its policy, specifying that roofs were to be fitted to seventeen locomotives ordered from the Baldwin Works in 1846. Two of these engines were the Atlas and the Hercules. In the book History of the Baldwin Locomotive Works, 1831-1899, the organization modestly waives any claim to having originated the cab. “These engines,” the author says, “were the first ones on which Mr. Baldwin placed sandboxes, and they were also the first built by him with roofs. On all of them four iron posts were carried up, and a wooden roof was supported by them. The enginemen added curtains at the sides and front, and Mr. Baldwin, on subsequent engines, added sides with sash and glass. The cab, proper, however, was of New England origin, where the severity of the climate demanded it, and where it had been used previously.”

Another road which pioneered in applying shelters to its engines was the Baltimore & Ohio. Its grasshopper type Thomas Jefferson was provided with a roof. This refinement was not present as protection from rain and snow so much as to shield the engine crew from intense sunshine of the Southland. Since these early locomotives, with their vertical boilers, were so arranged that the engineer stood almost directly under the smokestack he was probably grateful for defense against the shower of sparks and cinders which got in his hair when he drove cab-less motive power.

By the 1850’s most railroads in North America had enclosed cabs with sides and fronts as well as roofs. Commonest was the “square” cab with the slopes of the roof meeting at an angle of about 150 degrees. Among the most peculiar of other varieties were those which appeared on locomotives made by Ross Winans of Baltimore between 1846 and 1860 for the B&O, the P&R, Pennsy and other lines. These engines were known as “camels” because the cab was spread over the middle of the boiler. These original camels should not be confused with Camelbacks.

People’s Railway No. 3, now on exhibition in Philadelphia’s Franklin Institute, was built without a cab; later acquired an old one stripped from a Reading Company Pawnee Class engine.

During the 1860’s and 1870’s cabs reached their peak of glory, with costly woods like black walnut, bird’s eye maple and mahogany going into their construction. It was truly an age of extravagance. Some engines made by the Taunton Locomotive Works for the Alabama & Chattanooga (now Alabama Great Southern) in 1870 were specified to have made cabs made of black walnut, with their names painted in gold on either side and protected by glass plate. The interiors were equally luxurious. Not only were the seatboxes upholstered; there was a rug on the floor!

An unusual cab which provided a good degree of weather protection adorned the Hero, an engine built by William Mason for the Toledo, Wabash & Western in 1874. The house – longer than most shelters of that era – was equipped with three windows on each side, plus windowed doors on the sides for the fireman and engineer. Despite the length of the cab must have kept the elements out fairly well.

Changes in boiler design frequently brought about new cab forms. In 1877, for example, John E. Wootten, general manager of the Philadelphia & Reading, amazed visitors who thronged the railroad displays of an international exposition in Paris, with a curious little ten-wheeler having an extraordinarily large firebox. In accordance with the current belief that a large grate was an asset in anthracite burners, this engine, P&R 408, employed a firebox seven feet six and three-quarters inches wide by eight and one-half feet long. The conventional type of cab was perched high over this abnormality.

People scoffed at the engine’s ungainly appearance, so Wootten arranged a test run on the Northern Railway of France to show them his engine could perform well despite her dubious profile. The height of the cab atop that big firebox caused the 408 to exceed clearances on the road. Nothing daunted, the American railroad official had the shelter, controls and all, moved forward to the middle of the boiler, while running board was provided on either side of the barrel, reaching back to the floor-plate on the tender.

Thus was born the Mother Hubbard or Camelback locomotive. With this type of power the engineer occupies the traditional right-hand side of the cab while the fireman sits on the left. The boiler between them prevents the two from getting very chummy. Besides, the fireman only sits in his half of the cab when he isn’t busy wielding the scoop. There’s a reason for this cab provision. The I.C.C., which some years ago outlawed Camelbacks but has given certain roads permission to extend their use until shortages of motive power could or can be met, has also stipulated that firemen must have shelter from the elements.

Many systems beside the Reading have used Mother Hubbards. Among them are the Atlantic City; B&O; Canadian Pacific; Jersey Central; Chicago & Eastern Illinois; Chicago & Indiana Coal Co.; Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf; Delaware & Hudson; Lackawanna; Erie; Erie & Wyoming Valley; Lehigh & Hudson; Lehigh & New England; Lehigh Coal & Navigation Co.; Lehigh & Wilkes-Barre Coal Co.; Lehigh Valley; Long Island; Maine Central; Middletown & Unionvillel; Missouri-Kansas-Texas; Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis; New York, Lake Erie & Western; New York, Ontario & Western; New York, Susquehanna & Western; Northampton & Bath; Pennsylvania Coal Co.; Pennsy; Portland Terminal; Reading Coal & Iron; Rock Island; Sonora (Mexico); Southern Pacific; South Jersey; Staten Island; Susquehanna Connecting; Syracuse, Binghampton & New York; Universal Atlas Cement; Union Pacific; Western Maryland; Wheeling & Lake Erie; Williamsport & North Branch; Wilmington & Northern, Hecla & Torch Lake; Lackawanna Iron and Steel; Rockaway Valley, and Mariette & Northern Georgia.

Most hard coal burners of the Seventies and Eighties had fireboxes running through their cabs. An exception was the Philadelphia & Reading’s 435, whose shelter was placed at the extreme end of the boiler, permitting of an enclosed firing deck. The 435 was originally the North Pennsylvania’s Wissahickson, built by Baldwin in 1868.

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams XXX ,which will taste even better as it is free to celebrate B.Ks elevation to the Stools[tup][tup].

A good and busy weekend at the bar[tup].
DAVE ITS sad to say in the U.K there are a lot of so called preserved steam locos that have not had a lot of work done to them since they were rescued from Barry scrap yard.
With some never having a real chance of running again.
IT is amazing though that the number of locos from Barry that have steamed, over 100, after a lot of hard work,
There was some good news recently that the Severn Valley railway has obtained some land for a shed to keep the locos awaiting overhaul in. I hear that it will be done as a museum for the public to be able to visit.

NICK Thanks for the model info [tup] The 4-COR sounds interesting. I had a trip from Rugby to Brighton in the late 60s when a lot of the 2BILs and the older Southern units were still about I thought that they certainly had caracter. Also at Brighton that day I recall were two of the Southern CO-CO electric locos #s 20002 &20003. I dont think they were in service much longer and I dont believe any were saved[:(].
Thanks for the great England result. I'll let you tell Tom it wasn't soccer [:-,].
Great phots of Haverfordwest[tup].

ROB Wonderful Trolley and loco pics. The work, frieght and baggage cars are real gems.We are lucky the old photos of them servived. No. 327 looks superb a credit to those who restored her[wow][tup].

DOUG. Great unusual locos and stock from the Railroad mag. What was the Weed Burner on that locos truck do[%-)][?]. Very interesting on the Borden's Milk car.In the U.K the 6-wheel milk trucks were a common sight on the rails in the 50's but this was lost to road traffic [V]. There was an effort in the the 80s to revive this traffic but I believe the attempt failed. Another great theme with the loco cab articles[tup]

LARS Great photos of the Turbo-train. Any idea what it sounded like[?].

TED Always great to hear from you[tup] Very glad you were saved from damage by the horrendous rain there. Great looking model and photos.

RUSSELL. The museum in St.Louis is brilliant it is so easy to have a great time there. Looking forward to the photos.

TOM Thanks for the Kansas City - St Louis train times. Could the Wabash route still be done today[?].
I had a great time with the British modern pics you posted trying to guess the locations in the pics[tup].
The First one of the 323 EMU unit is at Cosely in the West Midlands.(home of 3 Holdens pubs and the nearest station to the Beacon Hotel brewers of the Sarah Hughes's Ruby Mild 6%).
The 2nd a 170 DMU Woverhampton[?].
The 3rd a 156 DMU Lancaster[?].
The 4th a new class 350 EMU at Stafford.
Of the second set the 2nd photo of the170 Dmu is at the 2004 Rail-Fest at York a Great exhibition which I was lucky to attend[tup].
Good Nostalgia on the S.P.
I'll have another Bathams please and thanks all for the kind words on the photos PETE. [tup]

[siberianmo]

Good Evenin!

OPEN BAR CONTINUES – COMPLIMENTS of BudKarr BK in commemoration of his “induction” into the Order of the Stools!

Looks like we’re finishing up the day with quite a bit more activity than we had during daylight.[tup]

Some acknowledgments are in order:

LoveDomes Lars
Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 14:18:41

Some interesting thoughts from you, as usual, all great conversation starters. Some may think in terms of debate, but I know where you’re coming from as we both speak “northeasternese.”[swg]

There are very few events in my life that have made indelible marks within my memory banks – Pearl Harbor – the assassination of President Kennedy – September 11th – are “givens.” Then there are these: the walking on the Moon by U.S. Astronauts in 1969 –– the disappearance of the U.S. trans-Atlantic ocean liners – and the demise of the U.S. passenger railroads. The latter seems ever present in my mind, most probably because I am a rail enthusiast – or whatever the term may be by those who simply do not “understand” guys like us. Losing all those beautiful trains along so many diverse routes represented a change in our society that has ramifications to this day. Beginning and continuing with the total dependence on the private automobile, for starters. Something to think about, eh[?]

I appreciate your interest in the success of this thread, really means a lot. I’m convinced that my expectations were way too high for the results experienced. Some guys really are “into” this kind of stuff, others can take it or leave it, and still others stop by when they can or think of it. All are appreciated as long as they are willing to be participants rather than browsers. The latter can take it elsewhere, and some have – RIP.[swg]

Go to another Forum[?] Nah, when I’m finished with this endeavor, I’m finished with all of it. However, there’s still a fire burning, so the steam is still “up.”[swg]

Trainnut484 Russell
Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 15:42:35

So, you made it to my part of the state, eh[?] Kirkwood Station is about a 20 minute drive from where I live and as you may recall, is where I board Amtrak for my round trips to KCity. It’s a great station and it’s a shame that Amtrak dropped the staffing. Volunteers man it about an hour before and after arrivals and departures. Not the same without “Jim the Station Master.”

Should you find that another trip this way is in order, perhaps we can hook up. Always look forward to meeting the guys from ”Our” Place!

Doesn’t appear that you’ve seen the latest edition of the Gazette – check it out on page 236.

Looking forward to your Pix ……[tup]

barndad Doug
Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 17:45:06 and 17:52:53

Hey! Didn’t expect to see you this fine day. Pull up your stool and partake in the OPEN BAR! Oh, you have …[swg] Good stuff with those Cab articles; they re on my reading list for the morning!

Thanx to you and the guys previously mentioned, we had a fine Sunday Photo Posting Day!. I think it would be a great idea to get some train station Pix added to the spreads – looking forward to yours! I’ve already Posted several of the Kirkwood, MO station …

pwolfe Pete
Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 19:06:24

So it was RUGBY and not SOCCER, eh[?] Well, only an “insider” would know![swg] Thanx for the clarification.

Couldn’t make that run of old during the Wabash days – too many changes. Another one bites the dust![tdn]

Nice work with those descriptions of the British Railways DMU’s – much appreciated! I have some others for this coming Sunday, so you’ll get another “challenge.”[swg]

Seems like I’ve been at this for hours – hmmmmmmm, I HAVE, since I was on the phone with YOU![swg]


Time for me to check out – so, Leon the Night Man has the bar!


See in the AM!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


Stick around a few minutes AFTER POSTING - The information you MISS may be for YOU!

Those who acknowledge the other guy, get acknowledged!

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon, I'll grab a pair of sleeman's honey brown to honour BK's generosity and elevation to the stool open bar day. [tup][:D]

Lars It's difficult to know exactly when i started likeing traction. I was always a train buff loved playing with them as a kid. I always had a minor facination with streetcars but was never a driving force. My wifes family has been involved at the museum since before she was born she grew up there and when we started dating they took me there. Once I found out that I could both restore and operate these gems i was well hooked. My da's family is from St catarines On as well and his one uncle was a mechanic for the NS&T so that's likely where my early streetcar facination came from. Long gone was the system before I was born but uncle Wilfs stories were always compelling.

I also love history and anything antique so I suppose that being at the museum fits for me as well. My other thread was set up in hopes to attract conversation with the like minded. Like Tom's passenger thread it's mostly a one man show. Good PR for our museum though so alls not lost.


Ted Good to see you even if briefly,glad to hear that you missed the worst of that storm and it's ensuing damage.

Tom Good day of photo's yeasterday, including your very interesting Brit railo shots. I eagerly await the NYC post. [tup]

Pete Yes we are luckey that so many photo's and indeed cars have survived to modern times. Our musuem has a large collection of photo's aand three of the founding members have published books on local traction and radials so the history is destined to live on. 327 is a fan favourite. It see's regular daily use at the museum. In 1971 it was the frist car to operate under it's own power at the musem. The initial car is an 1896 Toronto Railway Company car, it ran in the city till 1915 when it and it's sisters were banned from service due to the side running boards. Had it run two more yeasr it would have been banned outright in 1917 as well as at that point handbrake only cars were banned from the city streets ( car weighs 12 tons and is hand brake equiped only ) It was stroed in the TRC barn which were destroyed by a fire in 1917, the original car was burnt along with most of it's sisters and the traiers. Yes during rush hour these cars would pull a trailer ( old horse cars ). In 1933 the City of Toronto was celebrating it's 100th birthday so the city and the TTC decided to rebuild the car as a replica for their historic collection and for the 10oth birthday celebrations. The metal work ( truck, controller ) are from the original car the wood superstructure was built to the orginal plan's. So even as a replica it's an antique.Od note the Montreal truck it rides on is the only example of that type left in the world !


Doug Love the locomotive cab series really enlighteneing [tup] good stuff.

Russ the GMD1's are a bit of an odd beast. They were built by GM canda between 53-56. They are a 1000hp road switcher. Essentially an SW1200 with the extended hood and electrical cabinet. As built they were A1A + A1A trucked for use on light rail branches. Mostly on the Prairie but also in the maritimes. All were rebuilt to BB + BB configuration with newer electronics etc. 12 still are in use all as hump yard and transfer locomotives. 50 were sold to Cuba several years ago to Modernize their state railway. 125 units were built all for CN accept for an order of 6 which were built for the Northern Alberta Railway ( those were aquired by CN with the merger in the 80's )


Al Nice steamliner. Sad to hear that you will be less active however works work. Hope to see you occationally.


Have a good evening folks, I'll stop in later tomorrow.

Rob

[Trainnut484]

Good evening Leon. It's late so I'll take a Coca-Cola and put it on BK's tab.

We finally made it home (Whew). Our train arrived at KC Union Station about 10:15, which is an hour and 5 minutes late from schedule. UP must've had a new dispatcher running the show, which I could see the reaction on the Amtrak conductor's face, that it wasn't going to be a fun day at the office. But, it IS UP's track, so what canyado?

Tom, yes I did read the latest hottest issue of the Gazette. Time ran out on me on my earlier post to comment on it. The Classifieds and Comix are keepers for sure.

Rob, do you know what those CN slugs were originally?

Here's a pic of a plate, bolted on UP 4006's tender, explaining a little bit of history of the engine. Click to enlarge.


More pix to come Sunday [:)]

Take care,

Russell

[Anonymous]

Good morningTom and all! I'll take a light breakfast for the road please, as I'm usually off to work by now. Pete, I guess the wood-burner attachment forward of the loco pilot does exactly what its name suggests ... burns weeds. I have no idea what the mechanics are, but it seems to me they'd have to be moving slow, and I'll bet they didn't use it in dry conditions, lest they start a fire, but that's all guess work on my part. Let me now leave ya'll with Part III of the Cab series. Have a great day!

Cabs – by George Hart, from the pages of Oct. 1943 Railroad Magazine

Hen-Coop cab on the Philadelphia & Reading’s One-Spot


The C&EI. The Rock Island and the UP once owned numbers of these engines, with Wootten boilers made especially to burn low-grade bituminous coal. Frequently they had a small cab at the end of the firebox, instead of just the lengthened roof common to eastern roads. Another curious variety of cab developed for the Wootten boiler was the double-end arrangement used on many early “People’s Railroad” engines. This was nothing more or less than an auxiliary shelter erected at the tender coal gates for the benefit of the fireman. Even today the Reading has around three hundred Mother Hubbards on its roster.

In by-gone days practically every railroad possessed one or more double-cabbed inspection engines. These pieces of equipment had large, multi-windowed cabs in front of the boiler to allow officials maximum view of the right-of-way. In addition, there was the regular shelter back of the boiler where the crew was stationed. You can bet that no matter how begrimed the rear cab got, the roundhouse workers always took care to keep the observation booth immaculately clean.

One of these contraptions, the Picayune, was employed on the P&R as early as 1845. A typical inspection engine of a latter day was the 130, a 4-4-0 once owned by the Chicago & West Michigan. She was equipped with what was known as the Haskell inspection cab. To accommodate this observation cabin, the cab was placed on an extended engine frame, with an air space of about one inch between the back of the cab and the front of the boiler. Three sections of curved three-eights inch glass, reaching down to within eight inches of the floor, made for a virtually unobstructed view ahead.

Adjustable ventilators, which could be operated regardless of the direction taken by the inspection engine, were a feature of the monitor sheet-iron roof. The cab had a wooden floor and was fitted with doors on either side and steps or ease of entry. Six persons were supposed to be able to ride the observation cab in comfort, three on a leather lounge and three on single chairs. In case of emergency members of the inspection party could stop the engine with an airbrake ****. They also had a rope to sound the whistle. The designer claimed that the inspection cab did not impair the engineer’s visibility and that it was possible for a man in the rear cab to see the track 70 feet ahead on a straight stretch.

There is at least one case of an engine crew deliberately tearing their cab apart while they were running, and you can bet there was plenty of reason for it. Everybody knows the story of Andrews’ famous railroad raid – how in April 1862, twenty-one Union volunteers under the command of James J. Andrews kidnapped a Confederate engine, the General, and set out to sabotage southern communications. Dashing along the Western & Atlantic between Big Shanty (now Kennesaw) and Ringold, Ga., they stopped frequently to tear up tracks and bridges and to cut telegraph wires.

Before long a Rebel train was pursuing them closely. Black smoke poured from the General’s balloon stack as the Yankees chopped up the cars they were pulling and threw the wood into the little eight-wheeler’s hungry firebox. The pursuers were gaining rapidly as the raiders crossed Chickamauga Bridge, so Andrews set fire to the only remaining baggage car and uncoupled it, hoping it would burn the structure. The Confederates merely pushed the car along ahead of their engine. Now desperate for want of fuel, the Northerners feverishly started to hack the cab apart, tossing its meager yield of wood into the fire. The engine slowed up and the adventurers jumped off and ran for the woods. History tells that all of the raiders were captured and some were put to death.

Cabs, like the coaches behind them, were eventually to lose their combustible properties, however. As early as 1859 the Philadelphia & Reading had grown weary of replacing the wooden shelters which wore out faster than the locomotives under them, and began substituting cabs of sheet iron. To James Millholland, the road’s master of machinery, goes the credit for their design. Rounded, and with a dome shaped roof which incorporated a “ball” ventilator at its apex, they presented a peculiar appearance, but were welcomed by engine crews for their safety factor.

Forney engines, which were designed primarily for double-ended operation, had their cabs and tenders constructed as one unit. This one was rebuilt with semi-open shelter for contracting work in Iowa.


A 4-4-0 turned out by Rogers Locomotive & Machine Works for the Long Island in 1889 was another ancestor of today’s metal-cabbed engine. The locomotive had a protective canopy of rounded steel extending back from the cab roof well over the tender, and metal walls on both sides which must have shielded the crew from the cool breezes of Long Island sound. Later she was rebuilt with a double-cab.

With the advent of elevated railroads in big cities like Chicago and New York a new species of locomotive came into vogue. Invented by Matthias N. Forney, the engine type which was to bear his name had a rigid frame supporting the entire locomotive, tender and all. The cab was built into the tank, with the fuel bin behind it. These little shuttlers were used on both suburban and elevated service. During the same period William Mason’s “Bogie” engines were popular. They had closed cabs to enable them to run in either direction without being turned. Such machines were forerunners of the suburban types which later came into use on roads catering to heavy commuter trade.

Double-enders were used on the Central Pacific in 1882, but they were much commoner in the East, on the Long Island, the Jersey Central, the Boston & Albany, the Reading and the Illinois Central. Engine crews were completely protected from the weather in this type of power, but some of the men found another cause for complaint, fearing they would be trapped in case of a collision.

During the same period, the iron cab was finding increased favor in main line service. Then in 1895, the Lehigh Valley went one step further with the introduction of steel construction. Before long the square wooden cab, so gaily adorned with vivid paint and gleaming brass trimmings, had given way to rounded steel successors on all Class 1 railroads in North America.

Like the Forney’s, Mason’s bogie engines did not need to be turned at the end of the run. The carpentry work on their cabs was excelled only by the striping and lettering which accented them.

[siberianmo]

TUESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS

We open at 6 AM. (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


Tuesday has arrived! Start the day with a freshly brewed cuppa Joe, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery, and if you’re really hungry, try our <traditional> and <light> breakfast selections from the menu board![tup]


Daily Wisdom

Someone asked Yogi whether he had read a recent biography written about him and he replied,
“Why should I? I was there.
(yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear may be found at:

#1: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=233&TOPIC_ID=35270
#2: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=234&TOPIC_ID=35270
#3: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=237&TOPIC_ID=35270

NYC arrives tomorrow!

* Weekly Calendar:

Wednesday Pike Perspective’s Day!
Thursday Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday Pizza Nite! & Steak ‘n Fries Nite!
Saturday Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 01:38:05 (239) Monday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 02:20:05 (239) Order of the Stools

(3) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 05:56:51 (239) Monday Post

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 07:18:50 (239) Acknowledgments, etc.

(5) passengerfan Al Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 07:37:45 (239) Streamliner #55 – GN’s Red River, etc.

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 09:26:57 (239) for passengerfan Al

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 12:19:29 (239) NOSTALGIA #67 – Ad, SP (1948)

(8) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 14:18:41 (239) PM Chat

(9) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 15:42:35 (239) Inclusive Post from Kirkwood, MO train station!

(10) barndad Doug Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 17:45:06 (239) Inclusive Post & Cabs – Part I

(11) barndad Doug Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 17:52:53 (239) Cabs – Part II

(12) pwolfe Pete Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 19:06:24 (239) Inclusive Post, etc.,

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 20:57:40 (239) Acknowledgments, etc.

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 23:05:25 (239) Inclusive Post, etc.

(15) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 23:57:50 (240) 2nd Post of the day!



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features beginning Monday, January 30th!

. . . Sunday, February 5th thru 11th: The Titfield Thunderbolt (British 1953) starring: Stanley Holloway, Naunton Wayne, John Gregson & Sidney James – and – Breakheart Pass (1975) starring Charles Bronson, Ben Johnson & Richard Crenna.


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Now arriving on track #1 …..
Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Four


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


New York Central Railroad

Locale: Chicago, IL to New York, NY and Boston, MA

Reporting marks: NYC

Dates of operation: 1831 – 1968

Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge)

Headquarters: New York, New York


The New York Central Railroad (AAR reporting mark NYC), known simply as the New York Central in its publicity, was a railroad operating in the North-Eastern United States. Headquartered in New York, the railroad served a large proportion of the area, including extensive trackage in the states of New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Massachusetts and much of New England and in the Canadian provinces of Ontario and Québec. Its primary connections included Chicago and Boston. The NYC's Grand Central Terminal in New York City is one of its best known extant landmarks.

The New York Central was known as the "Water Level Route" as its mainline to New York City ran along the Hudson River.

The famous Water Level Route of the NYC, from New York City to upstate New York, was the first four-track long-distance railroad in the world.

In 1968 the New York Central merged with its former rival, the Pennsylvania Railroad, to form Penn Central (the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad joined in 1969). That company soon went bankrupt and was taken over by the federal government and merged into Conrail in 1976. Conrail was broken up in 1998, and much of its system was transferred to the newly-formed New York Central Lines LLC, a subsidiary of CSX. That company's lines include the original New York Central main line, but outside that area it includes lines that were never part of the New York Central system.

History

Pre-New York Central: 1826-1853

The oldest part of the New York Central was the first permanent railroad in the state of New York and one of the first railroads in the United States. The Mohawk and Hudson Railroad was chartered in 1826 to connect the Mohawk River at Schenectady to the Hudson River at Albany, providing a way for cargo on steamboats to avoid the Erie Canal. The Mohawk and Hudson opened on September 24, 1831, and changed its name to the Albany and Schenectady Railroad on April 19, 1847.

The Utica and Schenectady Railroad was chartered April 29, 1833; as the railroad paralleled the Erie Canal it was prohibited from carrying freight. Revenue service began August 2, 1836, extending the line of the Albany and Schenectady Railroad west from Schenectady along the north side of the Mohawk River, opposite the Erie Canal, to Utica. On May 7, 1844 the railroad was authorized to carry freight with some restrictions, and on May 12, 1847 the ban was fully dropped, but the company still had to pay the equivalent in canal tolls to the state.

The Syracuse and Utica Railroad was chartered May 1, 1836 and similarly had to pay the state for any freight displaced from the canal. The full line opened July 3, 1839, extending the line further to Syracuse via Rome (and further to Auburn via the already-opened Auburn and Syracuse Railroad). This line was not direct, going out of its way to stay near the Erie Canal and serve Rome, and so the Syracuse and Utica Direct Railroad was chartered January 26, 1853. Nothing of that line was ever built, though the later West Shore Railroad, acquired by the New York Central in 1885, served the same purpose.

The Auburn and Syracuse Railroad was chartered May 1, 1834 and opened mostly in 1838, the remaining 4 miles (6 km) opening on June 4, 1839. A month later, with the opening of the Syracuse and Utica Railroad, this formed a complete line from Albany west via Syracuse to Auburn, about halfway to Geneva. The Auburn and Rochester Railroad was chartered May 13, 1836 as a further extension via Geneva and Canandaigua to Rochester, opening on November 4, 1841. The two lines merged on August 1, 1850 to form the rather indirect Rochester and Syracuse Railroad (known later as the Auburn Road). To fix this, the Rochester and Syracuse Direct Railroad was chartered and immediately merged into the Rochester and Syracuse on August 6, 1850. That line opened June 1, 1853, running much more directly between those two cities, roughly parallel to the Erie Canal.

To the west of Rochester, the Tonawanda Railroad was chartered April 24, 1832 to build from Rochester to Attica. The first section, from Rochester southwest to Batavia, opened May 5, 1837, and the rest of the line to Attica opened on January 8, 1843. The Attica and Buffalo Railroad was chartered in 1836 and opened on November 24, 1842, running from Buffalo east to Attica. When the Auburn and Rochester Railroad opened in 1841, there was no connection at Rochester to the Tonawanda Railroad, but with that exception, there was now an all-rail line between Buffalo and Albany with the completion of the Tonawanda Railroad. On March 19, 1844 the Tonawanda Railroad was authorized to build the connection, and it opened later that year. The Albany and Schenectady Railroad bought all the baggage, mail and emigrant cars of the other railroads between Albany and Buffalo on February 17, 1848 and began operating through cars.

On December 7, 1850 the Tonawanda Railroad and Attica and Buffalo Railroad merged to form the Buffalo and Rochester Railroad. A new direct line opened from Buffalo east to Batavia on April 26, 1852, and the old line between Depew (east of Buffalo) and Attica was sold to the Buffalo and New York City Railroad on November 1. The line was added to the New York and Erie Railroad system and converted to the Erie's 6 foot (1829 mm) wide gauge.

The Schenectady and Troy Railroad was chartered in 1836 and opened in 1842, providing another route between the Hudson River and Schenectady, with its Hudson River terminal at Troy.

The Lockport and Niagara Falls Railroad was chartered in 1834 to build from Lockport on the Erie Canal west to Niagara Falls; it opened in 1838. On December 14, 1850 it was reorganized as the Rochester, Lockport and Niagara Falls Railroad, and an extension east to Rochester opened on July 1, 1852.

The Buffalo and Lockport Railroad was chartered April 27, 1852 to build a branch of the Rochester, Lockport and Niagara Falls from Lockport towards Buffalo. It opened in 1854, running from Lockport to Tonawanda, where it junctioned with the Buffalo and Niagara Falls Railroad, opened 1837, for the rest of the way to Buffalo.

In addition to the Syracuse and Utica Direct, another never-built company - the Mohawk Valley Railroad - was chartered January 21, 1851 and reorganized December 28, 1852, to build a railroad on the south side of the Mohawk River from Schenectady to Utica, next to the Erie Canal and opposite the Utica and Schenectady. The West Shore Railroad later built on that location.

Albany industrialist and Mohawk Valley Railroad owner Erastus Corning got the above railroads together into one system, and on March 17, 1853 they agreed to merge. The merger was approved by the state legislature on April 2, and ten of the remaining companies merged to form the New York Central Railroad on May 17, 1853. The following companies were consolidated into this system, including the main line from Albany to Buffalo:

1. Albany and Schenectady Railroad
2. Utica and Schenectady Railroad
3. Syracuse and Utica Railroad
4. Rochester and Syracuse Railroad
5. Buffalo and Rochester Railroad

The Rochester and Syracuse also owned the old alignment via Auburn, Geneva and Canandaigua, known as the "Auburn Road". The Buffalo and Rochester included a branch from Batavia to Attica, part of the main line until 1852. Also included in the merger were three other railroads:

6. Schenectady and Troy Railroad, a branch from Schenectady east to Troy
7. Rochester, Lockport and Niagara Falls Railroad, a major branch from Rochester west to Niagara Falls
8. Buffalo and Lockport Railroad, a branch from the Rochester, Lockport and Niagara Falls at Lockport south to Buffalo via trackage rights on the Buffalo and Niagara Falls Railroad from Tonawanda
As well as two that had not built any road, and never would:
9. Mohawk Valley Railroad
10. Syracuse and Utica Direct Railroad

Soon the Buffalo and State Line Railroad and Erie and North East Railroad converted to standard gauge from 6 foot (1829 mm) broad gauge and connected directly with the NYC in Buffalo, providing a through route to Erie, Pennsylvania.

Erastus Corning years: 1853-1867

The Rochester and Lake Ontario Railroad was organized in 1852 and opened in Fall 1853; it was leased to the Rochester, Lockport and Niagara Falls Railroad, which became part of the New York Central, before opening. In 1855 it was merged into the New York Central, providing a branch from Rochester north to Charlotte on Lake Ontario.

The Buffalo and Niagara Falls Railroad was also merged into the New York Central in 1855. It had been chartered in 1834 and opened in 1837, providing a line between Buffalo and Niagara Falls. It was leased to the New York Central in 1853 and merged in 1855.

Also in 1855 came the merger of the Lewiston Railroad, running from Niagara Falls north to Lewiston. It was chartered in 1836 and opened in 1837 without connections to other railroads. In 1854 a southern extension opened to the Buffalo and Niagara Falls Railroad and the line was leased to the New York Central; it was merged in 1855.

The Canandaigua and Niagara Falls Railroad was chartered in 1851. The first stage opened in 1853 from Canandaigua on the Auburn Road west to Batavia on the main line. A continuation west to North Tonawanda opened later that year, and in 1854 a section opened in Niagara Falls connecting it to the Niagara Falls Suspension Bridge. The New York Central bought the company at bankruptcy in 1858 and reorganized it as the Niagara Bridge and Canandaigua Railroad, merging it into itself in 1890.

The Saratoga and Hudson River Railroad was chartered in 1864 and opened in 1866 as a branch of the New York Central from Athens Junction, southeast of Schenectady, southeast and south to Athens on the west side of the Hudson River. On September 9, 1867 the company was merged into the New York Central, but in 1867 the terminal at Athens burned and the line was abandoned. In the 1880s the New York, West Shore and Buffalo Railway leased the line and incorporated it into their main line, taken over by the New York Central in 1885 as the West Shore Railroad.

The Hudson River Railroad

The Troy and Greenbush Railroad was chartered in 1845 and opened later that year, connecting Troy south to East Albany on the east side of the Hudson River. The Hudson River Railroad was chartered May 12, 1846 to extend this line south to New York City; the full line opened October 3, 1851. Prior to completion, on June 1, the Hudson River leased the Troy and Greenbush.

Cornelius Vanderbilt obtained control of the Hudson River Railroad in 1864, soon after he bought the parallel New York and Harlem Railroad.

Along the line of the Hudson River Railroad, the High Line was built in the 1930s in New York City as an elevated bypass to the existing street-running trackage on Eleventh Avenue, at the time called "Death Avenue" due to the large number of accidents involving trains. The elevated section has since been abandoned, and the tunnel to the north, built at the same time, is only used by Amtrak trains to New York Penn Station (all other trains use the Spuyten Duyvil and Port Morris Railroad to access the New York and Harlem Railroad).

Vanderbilt years: 1867-1954

In 1867 Vanderbilt acquired control of the New York Central, with the help of maneuverings related to the Hudson River Bridge in Albany. On November 1, 1869 he merged the New York Central with his Hudson River Railroad into the New York Central and Hudson River Railroad. This extended the system south from Albany along the east bank of the Hudson River to New York City, with the leased Troy and Greenbush Railroad running from Albany north to Troy.

Vanderbilt's other lines were operated as part of the New York Central Railroad; these included the New York and Harlem Railroad, Lake Shore and Michigan Southern Railway, Canada Southern Railway and Michigan Central Railroad.

The Spuyten Duyvil and Port Morris Railroad was chartered in 1869 and opened in 1871, providing a route on the north side of the Harlem River for trains along the Hudson River to head southeast to the New York and Harlem Railroad towards Grand Central Terminal or the freight facilities at Port Morris. From opening it was leased by the New York Central.

The Geneva and Lyons Railroad was organized in 1877 and opened in 1878, leased by the New York Central from opening. This was a north-south connection between Syracuse and Rochester, running from the main line at Lyons south to the Auburn Road at Geneva. It was merged into the New York Central in 1890.

On July 1, 1900, the Boston and Albany Railroad was leased by the New York Central, although it retained a separate identity. In 1914 the name was changed again forming the modern New York Central Railroad.

The New York Central had a distinctive character; unlike its arch rival the Pennsylvania Railroad's mountainous terrain, the NYC was best known as the Water Level Route; most of its major routes, including New York to Chicago, followed rivers and had no significant grades. This influenced many things, including advertising and most notably locomotive design.

Steam locomotives of the New York Central were optimized for speed on that flat raceway of a main line, rather than slow mountain lugging. Famous locomotives of the System included the well-known 4-6-4 Hudsons, and the postwar Niagaras, fast 4-8-4 locomotives often considered the epitome of their breed by steam locomotive aficionados.

Despite having some of the most modern steam locomotives anywhere, the NYC dieselized rapidly, conscious of its by then difficult financial position and the potential relief that more economical diesel-electric power could bring. Very few New York Central steam locomotives still exist. All Hudsons and Niagaras were sent to the scrapper's torch. In 2004, the only surviving big modern steam locomotives are two 4-8-2 Mohawk dual-purpose locomotives.

The financial situation of northeastern railroading soon became so dire that not even the economies of the new diesel-electric locomotives could change things.

Bypasses

A number of bypasses and cutoffs were built around congested areas.

The Junction Railroad's Buffalo Belt Line opened in 1871, providing a bypass of Buffalo, New York to the northeast, as well as a loop route for passenger trains via downtown. The West Shore Railroad, acquired in 1885, provided a bypass around Rochester, New York. The Terminal Railway's Gardenville Cutoff, allowing through traffic to bypass Buffalo to the southeast, opened in 1898.

The Schenectady Detour consisted of two connections to the West Shore Railroad, allowing through trains to bypass the steep grades at Schenectady, New York. The full project opened in 1902. The Cleveland Short Line Railway built a bypass of Cleveland, Ohio, completed in 1912. In 1924, the Alfred H. Smith Memorial Bridge was constructed as part of the Hudson River Connecting Railroad's Castleton Cut-Off, a 27.5-mile-long freight bypass of the congested Albany terminal area.

An unrelated realignment was made in the 1910s at Rome, when the Erie Canal was realigned and widened onto a new alignment south of downtown Rome. The NYC main line was shifted south out of downtown to the south bank of the new canal. A bridge was built southeast of downtown, roughly where the old main line crossed the path of the canal, to keep access to Rome from the southeast. West of downtown, the old main line was abandoned, but a brand new railroad line was built, running north from the NYC main line to the NYC's former Watertown and Rome Railroad, allowing all NYC through traffic to bypass Rome.

Robert R. Young: 1954-1958

The Vanderbilt interests, having steadily reduced their shareholdings, lost a proxy fight in 1954 to Robert Ralph Young and his Alleghany Corporation. Unable to keep his promises, Young was forced to suspend dividend payments in January 1958 and committed suicide that month.

Alfred E. Perlman: 1958-1968

After his death, Young's role in NYC management was assumed by Alfred E. Perlman, who had been working with the NYC under Young since 1954. Although much had been accomplished to streamline NYC operations, in those tough economic times, mergers with other railroads were seen as the only possible road to financial stability. The most likely suitor became the NYC's former arch-rival Pennsylvania Railroad.

Penn Central, Conrail, CSX: 1968-2004

The New York Central became a fallen flag on February 1, 1968 when it joined with its old enemy, the Pennsylvania Railroad, in the ill-fated merger that produced Penn Central. Slightly over two years later, on June 21, 1970, the Penn Central Transportation Company filed for bankruptcy.

Conrail, officially the Consolidated Rail Corporation, was created by the U.S. Government to salvage Penn Central, and on April 1, 1976, it began operations.

On June 6, 1998, most of Conrail was split between Norfolk Southern and CSX. New York Central Lines LLC was formed as a subsidiary of Conrail, containing the lines to be operated by CSX; this included the old Water Level Route and many other lines of the New York Central, as well as various lines from other companies. CSX also assumed the NYC reporting mark.

References:

Railroad History Database

Surface Transportation Board Decision FD-33388, which created New York Central Lines LLC

PRR Chronology


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

Did you miss the previous three[?] Click the URL:

#1: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=233&TOPIC_ID=35270
#2: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=234&TOPIC_ID=35270
#3: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=237&TOPIC_ID=35270

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Have half read yesterdays post will get back to them later as Tuesday should be a lighter day. So far only four appointments, yesterday nine. Time for a double coffee and a Crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER #56

X-PLORER NYC June 1, 1956 Cincinnati – Cleveland daily round trip

On June 1, 1956 the New York Central inaugurated there long awaited TRAIN X or OHIO STATE X-PLORER. This lightweight train operated between Cincinnati and Cleveland with seven intermediate stops in five hours northbound or southbound. When the power unit from Baldwin wasn’t giving problems then the suspension system of the cars were. The major complaint from passengers was the rough ride of this lightweight articulated streamlined equipment. The NYC soon replaced the OHIO STATE X-PLORER with a conventional lightweight streamlined train and sold the experimental to the Pickens Railroad in North Carolina.

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

ENCORE! THEME FOR THE DAY - NYC

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #28

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check this advertisement out (from The Official Guide of the Railways – 1956)
first Posted on page 170



Extra service at no extra fare!

Route your passengers on the Central’s newest train

OHIO XPLORER CLEVELAND-CINCINNATI

Built for the Central by Pullman-Standard, the beautiful, lightweight all-coach Xplorer brings a new look to American railroading. Travelers will appreciate being introduced to this train and its convenient schedule.

*Hostess service
*Seat service for light meals from a rolling buffet
*Air cooled
*Reclining contour seats
*Separate bar-lounge car

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Standard Time) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Train #421 – Lv. Cleveland 6:45 AM – Ar. Cincinnati 12:15 PM
Train #422 – Lv. Cincinnati 1:45 PM – Ar Cleveland 7:15 PM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Also serving 8 cities in between . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . NEW YORK CENTRAL RAILROAD . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

ENCORE! THEME FOR THE DAY - NYC

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please, I'll stand for drinks for the whole day today as I have been "away." Here's some $ for the jukebox. Let's play a trio of tunes. We'll start with "I'll Marry You Tomorrow, But Let's Honeymoon Tonight," followed by "My Everyday Silver is Plastic," and a true classic which we haven't played in awhile, "Red Necks, White Socks and Blue Ribbon Beer."

Was that Boris I saw at the Super Bowl? Probably not, but maybe - all I know is I saw a lot of bizarre things during that ball game, not the least of which was the officiating (and I am a Steelers follower.) Anyway the commercials were good - my votes go the the magic refrigerator and the streaking sheep.

It's been an interesting few days with the safety stand down, but things are sort of returning to normal.

A few comments on past posts. 550 AM for the Cards? That's right on top of a local station here. Can't wait to see what some of the local affiliates are will be ("The tower of power Serving all points betwen East St. Louis and Granite City), but I'll bet there won't be any around here. The local stations quit carrying the Cincinnati Reds a few years ago (can't say I blame them) but they had been on the radio for decades. WCBS (Yankess flagship station) comes booming in here in the evening, but it ain't quite the same. Satellite radio is looking better all the time.

All of the postings (new and encore) on passenger service, cars, etc. have been added to the binder.

Railroad History No. 133 was devoted to the Wabash - get a copy if you can find one if you have any interest in the Wabash at all. I know there are some P&WV fans out there, and the P&WV book High and Dry had quite a bit abt. the Wabash's effort(s) to reach Pittsburgh - the one thing you can say abt. folks back then is that they truly thought big. I seriously doubt that we have any big thinkers left (but that's for another place and another time.)

Now for pictures and aother articles that have been posted recently. A Toronto PCC car AND Maple Leaf Gardens - We are not worthy! It's too bad that games between charter NHL teams are few and far between anymore. IIRC, the Bruins don't even play the Red Wings at all this season (probably good for the Bruins).

I also enjoyed the story about the polarized windows on the Pennsy. It was my experience that after a few rounds in the club car, you didn't even need to change the window.

That poor groundhog looked like he wanted to be anywhere but in the picture.

Also ernjoyed the pictures from overseas and the movie posters.

The picture of the Turbo at South Station was shows the back of the station's headhouse and some of the surrounding structure b4 it got knocked down. Those of you who have been in Boston over the past few years know how they did, IMHO, a good job in saving part of the structure and adapting it to present day needs - certainly better that what happened in Washington DC where the railroad station languished for years befoire being converted into - what a concept - a railroad station.

The G scale trolley pictures were interesting - powered off overhead, or by a hidden motor? Enquiring minds want to know.

Something in the way of classic train news. I visited the Ft. Wayne RR Historical Society page recently to look at pictures of the restored NKP 765. They are, according to the site, trying to set up excursions for 2006 in Michigan, Indiana, and, I believe, Ohio. The website is the point of information abt. this. It would be nice to see them down here for the New River train, too. BTW, there is a video titled "Runnin' That New River Train" which is a good up close view of a 765 trip between Huntington and Hinton and back. I recommend it to you if you have not seen it.

Well, back to it.

work safe

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

ANOTHER OPEN BAR THIS FINE DAY! Compliments of coalminer3 (CM3)[tup][tup][tup]

A chilly start to the day here in mid-Continent USA, with temps at or near 20 (F). Supposed to hit 40 today, then dropping like a stone tonight and for the remainder of the week. Nothing in the form of real snow, perhaps some flurries. <barf!> Petrol up at Collusion Corner is holding at $219 (rounded). One of the three stations has been demolished and it appears a new one will soon take its place - SHELL has been making money, or so I've heard.<groan>[tdn]

Some acknowledgments:

Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 23:57:50

So the end of the rail adventure has come to an end, eh[?] Apparently you haven't or don't travel with Amtrak between KCity and StL (Kirkwood) that often, for getting in ONLY an hour or so late is a PLUS these days (daze). If you've followed my chronicles of the travels Pete and I have taken, you'll surely know what I mean. In the 16 or so years of my making that round trip, sometimes a half dozen times per year, LATE is the operative word, but I'm talking really LATE - as in 4 or more hours. Always good to get home and hope all of your activities here in east central MO were pleasant ones.[tup]

Thanx for the "Tender plate," and we look forward to your Pix on Sunday Photo Posting Day!

barndad Doug Posted: 07 Feb 2006, 04:59:40

Part III of the Cab series and at "O-dark-thirty" in the mornin'!! Whazup[?] Or better said, why were you UP[?][swg] Amazing how insomnia works and when it hits me, I wind up on this thread. Now, what in the world does THAT tell ya[?][swg]

passengerfan Al Posted: 07 Feb 2006, 07:11:17

Good "Theme" Post on the XPLORER! Fits in quite well - check the followup.[tup][tup]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 07 Feb 2006, 08:52:57

Was beginning to wonder where you've been - but then, given the mining situation in WVA, wasn't hard to figure it out. Your Governor made the right move.

Great input, as always, and your generosity is most appreciated as well. An OPEN BAR is always something special 'round these parts![tup][tup][tup]

You've done quite a job in catching up on the Posts, wish everyone would take the time to do the same after an absence. Doesn't take long for these pages to fill up and fly by, eh[?][swg] A suggestion is in order: use the reload/refresh feature when checking into the thread in order to come up with the most current "stuff," for it doesn't appear you saw the NYC Posts. Pehaps you are saving 'em up for later - which is fine too.[tup]

I haven't seen either North or South Stations in Beantown since the early '70s. Undoubtedly CHANGE has overtaken the memories, fer sure. Happens all the time. I wonderd whether you'd pick up on the background info on the Pix - shudda known you would![swg] Glad you enjoyed the Pix from the guys this past Sunday Photo Posting Day!.

That change of AM stations for the Cardinals has really upset quite a few fans 'round these parts. It was front page material in an on again/off again fashion for months. Seems that KMOX has undergone siginficant ownership and management changes over the past decade which has pretty much turned it into more of a "down 'n dirty" business than anything else. The "personality" and "personalities" of the station are so different that I really don't listen to the programming very much. TV surely has overtaken the broadcasting of major sporting events. But ya know, there's nothing like the good old "transistor," under the pillow while listening to one's favortie team while on the road! [yeah]

That may have been a Boris-look-alike on TV! <good grief!> At any rate, I'm pleased with the outcome of the game, but not the manner in which it happened. In any sport, once the officiating becomes center stage, something surely is lost as far as I'm concerned. A shame, indeed.

Regarding RR videos, I suppose that is NEXT! Does it ever end[?][swg]

Appreciate the quarters and song titles![tup]


Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

For: Trainnut484 Russell and anyone else out there:

The Kirkwood, MO Amtrak Station (formerly MoPac)


Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

ENCORE! THEME FOR THE DAY - NYC

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #27

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check this advertisement out (from The Official Guide of the Railways – 1956) first Posted on page 169



Something new for veteran travelers
THROUGH SEPT. 29TH

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NEW YORK CENTRAL RAILROAD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

For a limited time only
AEROTRAIN CLEVELAND-CHICAGO

This much-talked about, lightweight train offers a new experience in travel – provides fast, conveniently scheduled coach service between Cleveland and Chicago . . . with many attractive New York Central features.

* Hostess service
* Seat service for light meals from a rolling buffet
* Separate bar car
* Air cooled
* Reclining contour seats

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Standard Time) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Train #201 – Lv. Cleveland 6:35 AM – Ar. Chicago 12:15 PM
Train #200 – Lv. Chicago 4:00 Pm – Ar. Cleveland 10:45 PM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . Also serving 12 cities in between . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

ENCORE! THEME FOR THE DAY - NYC

[siberianmo]

ENCORE! THEME FOR THE DAY - NYC

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #38

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the New York Central (NYC) in a 1948 advertisement from my private collection:
first Posted on page 183

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . World Premiere! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
the New 20th Century Limited

. . . . . . . . . . First of New York Central’s new Dreamliner Fleet . . . . . . . . . .

NEW Lookout Lounge – Modern setting for the club-like availability that’s long been a Century tradition.

New – from its streamlined Diesel to its raised “Lookout Lounge” . . .

New King-Size Diner – So spacious it needs a separate kitchen car! Smart designing gives each table privacy plus a perfect outlook. There’s a festive feel about the Century’s dinner lounge and a sense of being served with distinction.

New 1948 Century Rooms – Whether you travel in a roomette, a bedroom or with a party in a suite, you can work, or relax in air-conditioned privacy by day – then sleep the miles away by night on Central’s smooth Water Level Route.

. . . . . NEW NEW YORK CENTRAL . . . . .

. . . . . BETWEEN THE HEART OF CHICAGO AND THE HEART OF NEW YORK . . . . .
Vacation overnight aboard the new Century. Arrive refreshed – with no business time lost.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

ENCORE! THEME FOR THE DAY - NYC

[LoveDomes]

Hello Tom

Nice work, once again with your new series! Love the NYC. Here's my meager contribution to the "Theme for the day!"

20th Century Limited Drumheads


I'll take one of those tall Pilsner glasses of whatever the draught special is for the day. Thank you CM3 for the open bar! Here's a ten spot for the "klitty" as I know you aren't bringing in very much moolah today.

Some really outstanding info posted today and you surely have a winner with this idea ... perhaps the guys will pick up on it.[tup]

Gotta run - and I'll try to make it back.

Until the next time!

Lars

[siberianmo]

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #42

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the New York Central (NYC) in a 1950 advertisement from my private collection:
first Posted on page 190

X marks my Room

. . . on a Dieseliner, and no hotel was ever finer. For New York Central travel feels just like a great hotel on wheels!

Having a Wonderful Time you see,
Loafing or working in privacy.
But when I feel more like a chat,
The lounge car is just made for that!

. . . . . . . . . . The Meals are Swell, and I am able
. . . . . . . . . . To have them at a real table.
. . . . . . . . . . It’s fun – this dining as I ride,
. . . . . . . . . . With scenery “served on the side!”

My Big, Soft Bed is six-foot-three,
Smooth Diesel power cradles me.
For sleep, no place could better suit,
Than Central’s Water Level Route!

. . . . . . . . . . No Need to Step Outside my door
. . . . . . . . . . To wash and dress next morning, for
. . . . . . . . . . My Central room’s equipped complete,
. . . . . . . . . . And when I leave, I’m fresh and neat.

My Plans are Sure! Come storm or fair,
My Dieseliner gets me there.
On New York Central trains I find Comfort is matched by peace of mind!

Make these great trains your Hotels on Wheels

New York – Chicago
20th CENTURY LIMITED
COMMODORE VANDERBILT

. . . . . Chicago – Boston
. . . . . NEW ENGLAND STATES

St. Louis, Indianapolis – New York, Boston
SOUTHWESTERN LIMITED

. . . . . Cincinnati – New York
. . . . . OHIO STATE LIMITED

New York – Cleveland
CLEVELAND LIMITED

. . . . . New York – Detroit
. . . . . THE DETROITER

And many, many others!


. . . . . NEW YORK CENTRAL RAILROAD . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . The Water Level Route – You Can Sleep . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

ENCORE! THEME FOR THE DAY - NYC

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom And All.

Another busy day at the bar and free drinks thanks to CM3 as well[tup]. I'll have apint of the usual Bathams please.

Great NYC day TOM. The Rail Roads from Yesteryear and the great Encore Nostalgias with AL and LARS adding info as well. [tup][wow].
Its a real pity none of the Hudsons or the Niagaras were saved [:(] Does any one know where the two preserved NYC 4-8-2 Mohawks are now[?]. I have the feeling that I have seen a loco with New York Central on the tender but I might be wrong.
The NYC certainly did their best in the early 50s, with the ads, to attract passengers to their system but by then I suppose it was a losing batlle[:(].

DOUG Another great Cabs article. Interesting on the double-cabbed inspection engines
They would be prime seating on a railtour if they were around today[yeah].

ROB Thanks for the info on No 327. Restoring the cars must be hard but very rewarding work. I have found another web-site with photos and info on the Blackpool Trams. I have read an article that says that the long term future of the tramway maybe in doubt.It also said that one part of it( not generaly in use) is the world's oldest section of electric street tramway. here is the site
http;//www.fts-blackpool.org.uk

RUSSELL Sorry the Amtrak was late. When the Brits were over here in OCT 2004 we were fortunate that the trips to K.C and Kirkwood were not too bad for time.
When we was in England we were waiting for our train at Basingstoke when the electronic train display flashed up Delayed. I had just time to cuss when it changed to Late 2 min hardly worth putting up.

Tom Good pohoto of Kirkwood station[tup] You are so right about sport on the radio,maybe because as I grew up the only live soccer on TV was the F.A. Cup Final once a year. Even now I think I enjoy more a live commentery on the radio to the TV I can listen to live soccer on the internet [^].
Thanks CM3 for the beer[tup]. PETE.

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. I see Coalminer 3 has paid for an open bar so will just have the usual thanks.

In keeping with the NYC theme of the day will throw in the following Passengerfan Extra for the day.

TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED NYC Trains 25-26 September 15, 1948 New York – Chicago All Pullman daily overnight both directions 970 miles 16 hours

The NYC replaced the ten-year-old lightweight streamlined 20TH CENTURY LIMITED train sets with all new diesel powered train sets beginning September 15, 1948. The new 20TH CENTURY LIMITED train sets like the steam powered trains before them operated behind the diesels only between Harmon and Chicago as between Harmon and New York City power was electric locomotives drawing current from third rail into the heart of New York Cities Grand Central Station. The new trains were painted in a new two-tone gray paint scheme with white separation stripes. This was the perfect paint scheme for the 20TH CENTURY LIMITED it exuded elegance and had that touch of real class, missing from the previous 20TH CENTURY LIMITED paint scheme. The NYC assigned a pair of EMD E7 diesel passenger units to the new 20TH CENTURY LIMITED for power. The new train like its 1938 predecessor was all Pullman top of the line with only the Master Room missing from the 1948 edition of the 20TH CENTURY LIMITED. Not all cars were new for the trains 1949 inaugural but by the end of 1949 the trains were completely re-equipped except for rebuilt 4 Compartment 2 Drawing Room 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars that remained prewar cars. A sample 20TH CENTURY LIMITED consist as the train appeared in 1949 is listed below.

CONSIST ONE

5014 Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car

CALUMET RIVER 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

PORT OF BUFFALO 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

IMPERIAL CANYON 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

IMPERIAL CASTLE 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

ATLANTIC SHORE Barber Shop Secretary Room Bar 30-Seat Lounge Car

474 16- Crew Dormitory Kitchen Car

400 68- Seat Dining Room Car

IMPERIAL FALLS 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

PORT BYRON 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

CASS RIVER 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

PORT OF ALBANY 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

HICKORY CREEK 5-Double Bedroom Buffet 25- Seat Lounge Observation

CONSIST TWO

5015 Baggage 30’Railway Post Office Car

PASSAIC RIVER 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

PORT CHESTER 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

IMPERIAL HOUSE 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Rom 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

IMPERIAL HIGHLANDS 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

LAKE SHORE Barber Shop Secretaries Room Bar 30- Seat Lounge Car

475 16- Crew Dormitory Kitchen Car

401 68- Seat Dining Car

IMPERIAL FOUNTAIN 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

PORT OF CHICAGO 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

POWDER RIVER 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

PORT OF DETROIT 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

SANDY CREEK 5-Double Bedroom Buffet 25- Seat Lounge Observation

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

Good Evenin' Gents!

Thanx for the Posts, Lars - Pete & Al, was beginning to wonder whether anyone would turn up on this NYC Day![swg] Shudda known you three would![tup][tup]

Lars Those Drumheads are "cool" and fit right well with the "Theme" for this day. Thanx!

Pete Here's the answer to your question from Wikipedia

QUOTE: Two Mohawks survive, making them the largest New York Central steam power remaining (all NYC Hudsons and NYC Niagaras went to the scrapman). The first, #2933, is a 1929 ALCO-built L-2d and resides at the Museum of Transportation, St. Louis, Missouri while the second, #3001, is a 1940 ALCO-built L-3a at the National NYC Railroad Museum in Elkhart, Indiana.

So, you were correct - you did see one right here in St. Louis County![swg]

Al Nice touch with the 20th Century Ltd info![tup][tup] KInd of wondering - what was the connection between the Boston & Albany and the 20th Century Ltd[?] Would appreciate some enlightenment from you OR CM3 - thanx in advance!]swg]

Lars & Pete Appreciate the recognition for the NYC info & Posts![tup]

Okay boyz, enjoy the evening!

Leon the Night Man will have the bar at 9 PM (Central)

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

THEME FOR THE DAY - NYC

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #59

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the New York Central (NYC) in a 1954 advertisement from my private collection:
first Posted on page 222

Easy Does It . . . when the family goes New York Central

Easy on Dad! No traffic to tire him. No white line to watch. When New York Central does the driving, he’s free to read, nap, or enjoy the wonderful Water Level Route scenery that parades past his big picture window.

Easy on Mother, because her mind’s at ease about the youngsters. Not back-seat fidgets. No frequent roadside stops. Everything the children need is right at hand. And they couldn’t be safer at home!

Easy on the Kids! They don’t have to stay put in their seats. There’s plenty of room to move about. And there’s the extra thrill of those famous New York Central meals in the diner, with their own, thrifty Children’s Menu to choose from.

Easy on the Budget! Round-trip coach fares are low. And special Family Tickets cut them so much as 50% or even more. Ask your New York Central ticket agent all about them.

. . . . . NEW YORK CENTRAL RAILROAD . . . . .

. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . The Water Level Route . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

THEME FOR THE DAY - NYC

[LoveDomes]

Hi Tom and anyone at the bar!

I've returned for another cold one - make it an R&H (remember Staten Island's premium brew??)

Here's a bit more to supplement your extraordinary efforts today on the NYC:

Name trains of the New York Central (NYC)

Berkshire
Booth Tarkington
Buffalo-Pittsburgh Express
Canadian
Chicago Express
Chicago Mercury
Chicagoan
Cincinnati Special
Cleveland Limited
Cleveland Mercury
Cleveland-Columbus Special
Columbus-Cleveland Special
Commodore Vanderbilt
Detroiter
DeWitt Clinton
Easterner
Empire State Express
Fifth Avennue Special
Forest City
Gateway
Great Lakes
Hendrick Hudson
Interstate Express
Iroquois
James Whitcomb Riley
Knickerbocker
Laurentian
Michigan
Michigan Special
Midnight Special
Midwestern
Minute Man
Missourian
Mohawk
Montreal Limited
Motor City Special
Mountain Express
New England States
New York Special
Niagara
North Shore Limited
North Star
Northerner
Ohio Special
Ohio State Limited
Ontarion
Overseas
Pacemaker
Pittsburgh-Buffalo Express
Royal York
South Shore
Southwestern State Special
Sycamore
Texas Special
Tuscarora
Twentieth Century Limited
Twilight Limited
Wolverine

There you have it - perhaps not all inclusive as some would have it - but these are the "name" trains that are most probably the best known.

A refill, please .......

Until the next time!

Lars

[passengerfan]

Tom Good evening. Guess I'll have one more CR before returning to work to many and i hate to see what I do with the next tax clients return.

You asked about the B&A and their connection with the TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED.

All I know is that the B&A was first leased to the NYC in 1900 and later became just another subsidiary but they did letter equipment for the B&A for many years, just may have had something to do with taxes.

The connection to the TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED was they operated the New England section of that train during the heavyweight era between Boston and Albany where it connected with the through New York-Chicago TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED. The streamlined TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED did not make a station stop in Albany or anywhere else except Harmon, Englewood and Chicago. Although the two Cennturies passed in Buffalo each night for servicing and crew change. Passengers were not allowed on or off the train during this service stop.

TTFN AL